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elcap-pics
climber
Crestline CA
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Dec 16, 2007 - 12:16pm PT
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cool stuff!
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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Dec 16, 2007 - 01:03pm PT
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So the question is, is it back to its normal "fixed" state, or has the cleanup encouraged people to climb cleaner?
cheers
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 16, 2007 - 04:35pm PT
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Not certain I follow the logic Deuce, but good for you for asking.
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Gabe
climber
San Clemente, CA
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Dec 16, 2007 - 04:45pm PT
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I climbed it again a year and a half ago and our party nailed maybe a total of four times. I have heard it's gone clean since, but I hear most teams do swing their hammers a few times.
Thanks for the post and the good words Bryan. Here's to you and Ivo!(Natty Ice in the Air) I'll post a few pics soon. Cheers. Gabe
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Dec 16, 2007 - 05:01pm PT
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Nice photo, Mike. Your Butterknife looks just like mine! In another heading post, I was asked to post more pictures of my Butterknife, but currently the thing is in Yosemite and I'm up here in Canada, eh?
Would it be OK to scarf your photo for my posts, with you as the photo credit?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 16, 2007 - 05:17pm PT
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Gabe,
it seems like if its a question of only a few placements and the route is so well known, that by fixing only a handful of spots and then putting out the beta then the route could be done "countless" times without further alteration IF (and I can't capitalize IF enough!) IF people respect the effort enough NOT to hammer.
Its a beautiful route with a noble history. So what if its not the same rating? People can go visit the line anyway. Even if it WAS the same difficulty few people even understand the mental challenge of soloing a virgin wall route so it really wouldn't be as challenging if it still was.
I personally could care a lot less about any hole count than what the best clean rack for it should be.
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Gabe
climber
San Clemente, CA
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Dec 16, 2007 - 08:11pm PT
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Sure Ron, but who will go up and fix the few pins needed for a clean ascent for everyone, and what keeps another party from funking them leaving you hammerless and scratching your head?
Pins were left in place on the clean-up trying to think of the future placement scaring, particularly on the mark of zorro pitch.
We did our best. Gabe
ps Hey Doug and Tom E.! Have a beer on me gents. I'll pay ya back when I next see ya fellas..
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Dec 16, 2007 - 08:14pm PT
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Hey Bro you must be really bored up there, Go skiing, Nice TR though....Sweet steeep Pics...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 16, 2007 - 08:53pm PT
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Gabe,
if its only a few placements, why not replace them with funk resistant bolts? A fixed clip is a fixed clip, and it seems a reasonable compromise to preserve an outstanding route (which is already far changed from its original state).
I say get over this hole count thing. Its like looking at trees and not seeing a forest. BFD, a few fixed moves on a route that's HOW long?
Fix the moves and change the paradigm. Now it should be about NOT whacking.
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Wade Icey
Big Wall climber
Indian Caves, CA
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Dec 17, 2007 - 02:02pm PT
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Bump. because it's dropped below '12,000 posts...'
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ricardo
Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
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Dec 18, 2007 - 04:11am PT
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me and my partner dan did zodiac in may 2007 ..
as far as fixed gear -- there was not that much -- though i think a bolt was added to the start (normal start) ..
.. i thought the route was WAY nicer than when i originally climbed it (pre-cleanup) .. and my level of enjoyment went WAY up ..
.. as far as how many times we hammered -- i nailed a few times.. and dan nailed some more -- nothing excessive ..
.. as far as fixing pins for future parties?? -- hmm .. well i was guilty of bootying every pin i could get out of that sucker -- (that was about 5 or 6 fixed pins i removed .. 3 of them out of pitch 7) .. -- including a nice sawed off..
.. thanks for the pictures -- and thanks for the cleanup.
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CF
climber
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Dec 18, 2007 - 12:36pm PT
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According to Meyers 8.5x11 green guide (year?) there are 69 bolts.
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