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edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
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Sep 16, 2010 - 07:54pm PT
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LEB's new forum, here: TROLLSRUS
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 16, 2010 - 07:56pm PT
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I thought that might be a bad example. It is not the only one. It is so ingrained in you that it isn't surprising that you do not see it. I have shown you many times, but you always failed to see. Once again, not surprising. You have a long history of not seeing. What is surprising is that you are intelligent, yet can't see what so many see.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 16, 2010 - 08:04pm PT
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HOW do I condescend? Give me an example of how I "condescend."
No one has ever mentioned this before?
i'll try to highlight a clear example that best illustrates this. Moosie ( and others) may have some ideas. Too bad Ed seems to have boycotted these...
and I don't mean anything about the way you interact with me, you're pretty direct with me.
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MisterE
Social climber
Bouncy Tiggerville
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Sep 17, 2010 - 12:04am PT
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Lois, one thing that stand out glaringly is you never concede a point, put in a different way: it seems you won't allow other people to be right if it contradicts what you have stated or believe. It's as if you allow this, then your whole way of behavior over a lifetime comes into question, and that is something you simply cannot allow.
Many of us call this allowance "growth". You see, by this allowing, this acceptance of a fear, that which you cling to most desperately, one can move away from a constant state of denial and stasis. Denial of behavior, patterns, other people being right, ad nauseum.
Lois, you seem like the adolescent spirit that the more challenged, the more vehemently you defend your perspective. Allow your spirit to mature, and you will find the risk ultimately rewarding, if initially uncomfortable.
This is the "Loising Point" you must allow to melt away from your identity of self, if you wish this to quit dogging you throughout your life.
You see, those lessons we refuse to learn always come back to us until we move through and past them.
Stated another way: The important lessons in life are never the easy ones, so when things get difficult to understand, it is important to consider the lesson, and allow it.
Erik
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 17, 2010 - 12:19am PT
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Don't you leave us Lois!!!!!!!!
The evil one
Seconded.
But I wouldn't blame her if she did.
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MisterE
Social climber
Bouncy Tiggerville
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Sep 17, 2010 - 12:20am PT
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No, Lois. I have almost never owned other people's psychosis or behavior as my own. It is simply not mine, so I do not find a need to engage it. Yes, I get angry occasionally, I disagree, I am threatened, hurt and insulted - but none of that is my being. It is all external, and as such, so much noise to keep me from the important stuff.
Thus, I find the importance of the lesson, consider it, concede a learning if there is one, and let it go.
Even in the worst circumstances - actually, going back to the difficulty rule mentioned above, especially in the difficult situations.
One has to find their own path to this acceptance, inevitably. It gets easier, fortunately.
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LED
Social climber
the great beyond
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Sep 17, 2010 - 12:32am PT
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MisterE
Social climber
Bouncy Tiggerville
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Sep 17, 2010 - 12:36am PT
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That is because you are none of those things you have been called - you draw the negativity to you by choosing those references, and then have to defend yourself. It seems to be a comfortable space for you at some level, if a little masochistic. You are simply Lois, and not a static being capable of being pigeon-holed if you choose for it to be so.
The problem here lies in that you have created an auto-response with many of the members, and that is now a tough one to shake.
Some consideration and agreement, like we have had, even in the face of insults (*ahem* especially...) can go a long way.
OK, that's all from me tonight, I gotta water the garden and take the garbage out...
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 17, 2010 - 12:38am PT
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Lois, we climbers are proud that we are not average
False pride?
Climbers are less likely to blindly accept authority (than the rest of the sheep).
More false pride?
Climbers at some point have to bow to the forces of Mother Nature.
And even more false pride?
Every living entity has to bow to the forces of Mother Nature .......
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 17, 2010 - 01:05am PT
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Yes, Erik, this IS all true. But the scary part is the fact that I am starting to buy into this world view here that I am actually the deviant one. This is not healthy or normal. It is like when the abused woman starts to buy into the paradigm that she deserves to be abused. I can't fall into that trap. I know better. So what the f*#k am I doing here allow this to happen. It is beginning to creep into my reality. It is starting to "get to" me. That is a danger sign and I recognize it. I cannot allow this to happen.
This is just your ego speaking. No one says that you are the deviant one. That is your false ego which says you have to be all right, or you are all wrong. Nothing is further from the truth, but that is what your ego believes. So the more you listen to your false ego, the scarier it gets. It says that if you listen to us, then you are all bad. But that is not what we said. We said you need to be less invested with your ego, because it makes you condescending and trapped in false beliefs, as you were about the Iraq war. You think the problem was that you just weren't educated enough, but that was not the problem. The problem was that you thought too highly of your own knowledge base and weren't willing to listen to those you had labeled as false because you labeled them as liberals, which in your world are bad. You have lived too long hearing that liberals are bad.
Jaybro is sort of liberal, and is a decent person whom you say that you respect, but he says that you are condescending. Uh oh.. what are you going to do? Oh I know.. make it black and white and run, because we must be wrong. Or do the opposite of that and stay and just ignore.. He just has to be wrong.
Or how about this. Stay and try to understand that it is not the end of the world to make mistakes. That false pride will kill you, but you can overcome false pride by not feeding it. Feed your true self instead. The problem comes in trying to figure out what your true self is.
It is not so much "leaving" as the realization that maybe I have fallen into an unhealthy environment where my world views are too much at odds with the norm for the place.
This is where you either decide to feed your ego, or stay where you are challenged. It is your choice, but don't expect staying to be easy. Climbers tend to challenge themselves a lot. Some more then others, but still that is common.
You say it is about what you believe. I say it is how you handle those beliefs. There are other folks on this forum who believe like you and they don't get as much sh#t as you do. Your answer is that you are a woman. That is sexism.
Maybe the answer is that you are condescending and have false pride and need to take a look at that. But that would rock your world. Well, some folks have their whole world taken away from them so that the universe can reveal to them their pride. Others listen when given the opportunity. This is your opportunity.
How stubborn were you about Iraq? Do you even remember? Your stubbornness was just pride and arrogance. One of the best things about challenging yourself in the wilderness is the humility that one can gain. You see folks like Jello with great great great abilities, and yet humble and able to admit mistakes. According to him he was not always humble, but life showed him the need for humility.
You have mistaken humility for weakness. That is your error. Jello is not weak. Nor are others here who have humility. True humility is a strength. In the wilderness it will save your ass. Humility is not that "poor me" that you seem to think it is. It is recognizing that you can't know everything. It is recognizing that everyone has some talent. It has no need to think of oneself as better then another. It will at times recognize the need to take authority, when one does have more knowledge. But proper authority knows that it isn't always right, so it is willing to listen. There is a fine line between true strength and just plain stubbornness.
You have strength, but you channel it into stubbornness because you think it is a sign of weakness to acknowledge a mistake.
Now you will tell me how wrong I am. haha..
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 17, 2010 - 01:05am PT
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You probably won't relate to this analogy because you are a man
There's a good, typical example. Now imagine how that would sound the other way around.
Empathy does exist in the male brain. You know that, right?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 17, 2010 - 01:09am PT
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Excellent point Jaybro.. How condescending to think that a man can't empathize with a woman.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 17, 2010 - 01:12am PT
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Yeah, some of us actually enjoy a long walk on the beach
especially if there's a worthwhile point break awaiting.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 17, 2010 - 01:22am PT
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In the old days, a climber that had climbed more than a couple years wasn't an idiot, because the idiots either injured or killed themselves; or they scared themselves so badly that they quit the sport.
This is pure bullsh'it Malemute .....
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Mimi
climber
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Sep 17, 2010 - 01:36am PT
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Lois, give it up. Again.
You've been here long enough to know better. You're engaging with a rough crowd especially on the internet. You're attempting to develop relationships with strangers in an arena that you have never known. Nor do you show any inclination to even dabble in it except for here. You dive in, get pummeled because of your opining, and come back for more. I've lectured you before about using your time more wisely. The ST is a total distraction for you. Some of us are your lab rats. I hate to bring it to you on a third grade level but you're never coming into the treehouse until you can climb the rope.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 17, 2010 - 01:41am PT
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You just have to pay attention while listening.
and ignore the drivebys.
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Mimi
climber
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Sep 17, 2010 - 01:50am PT
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That's a stupid question. Go onward and be bountiful. I'm sure you'll be back again someday when you get back to procastinating on something more important. Just consider the ST a bad habit. You'll feel better about leaving.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 17, 2010 - 01:54am PT
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Mimi's (apt) treehouse analogy reminded me of this bit of, historic Video lore;
[Duke hurts his hand trying to open the trunk of the Malibu.]
Archie: Aw, Dukie Wookie hurt his wittle hand.
Duke: F*#k you, Archie! Just for that, you're not in the gang any more.
Archie: I'm taking over now.
Debbie: Oh, leave it!
Archie: King Archie! The Invincible!
Duke: Shut up, Archie!
Archie: Hey Debbie! Watch this!
[Archie opens the trunk and is vaporized by the contents.]
J. Frank Parnell [blankly]: Oh, my. What a shame.
Debbie: Duke, let's go do those crimes!
Duke: Yeah. Let's get sushi... and not pay!
-There is little in life that cannot be explained with a metaphor from Repoman, The 'Blueboy' episode of Dragnet, The Grateful Dead, or climbing...
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Mimi
climber
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Sep 17, 2010 - 01:59am PT
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AC, as you well know, we can also pull the rope UP and make you skin your knees trying to ascend without it.
Lois Edit: Yep, we is some coooolldddd turkeys over heah.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 17, 2010 - 02:01am PT
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You gonna let maybe, some of us know where this "over the rainbow" site is? If we promise not to tell. And give you back the top bunk?
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