Aging, Arthritis, and Joint Pain

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AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 23, 2007 - 08:58pm PT
I am 50 and have been climbing for 30 years. I have arthritis in both of my knees, one feels OK 361 days a year while the other can give me problems for weeks or months on end. Unfortunately the bad knee limits what I can do and has forced me to give up alpine climbing and anything with a long,steep approach. Luckily once things get steep I can perform fine.

I would like to hear from other people (especially doctors) on the following:
Does arthritis or joint pain limit what you can do?
Have you found any treatment that reduces pain and swelling?
What is the best way for me to ensure that I can still climb 10 or 15 years from now?

Phil_B

Social climber
Hercules, CA
Nov 23, 2007 - 09:02pm PT
I had to quite climbing for 10 years due to psoritatic arthritis. It's under control now with a combination of drugs. Glucosamine Chondroitin/MSM works well for me, but some days, it's just lots of ibuprofen.

I find that I have to make sure that I take care of myself or I get flareups. If I don't sleep enough or if I'm not getting enough exercise, then things get bad.

See a rhumatologist. They really know a lot about these types of diseases. My arthritis went from what felt like a stubbed toe to where it was hard to get out of bed in less than 2 weeks.

Good luck. It sucks getting older.
marky

climber
Nov 23, 2007 - 09:03pm PT
hell, I'm 30 and my knees are already gone
10b4me

climber
1/2way between Yos and Moab
Nov 23, 2007 - 09:03pm PT
I am 50 and have been climbing for 30 years. I have arthritis in both of my knees, one feels OK 361 days a year while the other can give me problems for weeks or months on end. Unfortunately the bad knee limits what I can do and has forced me to give up alpine climbing and anything with a long,steep approach. Luckily once things get steep I can perform fine.

I hear you. I am 53 and have the same problem. alpine climbs are probably out for me. my knees can't take the approaches.
cragging is also a problem, as I can't do high steps.
mrtropy

Trad climber
Nor Cal
Nov 23, 2007 - 09:35pm PT
I hear you too, I also have psoritatic arthritis but lucky mine was/is not bad enough to make me quiet climbing. I am nearly 50 with some in hands, knees, and wrists. I had two finger go bad about 17 years ago and then regain nearly 100% usage for some unknown reason after a couple of years. Now I just have bad skin and nails. See a rhumatologist is great advice. Some arthritis is natural and there are many different types. Good Luck Jeff
Blinny

Trad climber
NWMontana
Nov 23, 2007 - 09:41pm PT
In a word. . .

TURMERIC!

Google that!

Spell it right! (it's NOT tumeric)

The stuff is AMAZING!

New findings say it works WAY BETTER if you ingest it with BLACK PEPPER. You can find them, in consort, online.

It's been discussed here, extensively. . . maybe you could seach it?

Good luck!

eKatAdInfinitum

jstan

climber
Nov 23, 2007 - 09:48pm PT
There are even WD40 fans on another thread hereabouts.

Since no pharmaceutical companies are advertizing WD40 for this in the newspapers, we know that is not a safe medical approach.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Nov 23, 2007 - 11:09pm PT
hey there ... say... dont try this unless you know your health first, etc... but since arthritis in the joints is in one side of our family it started to sneak up some on me, and i had the forewarning...

since then, i do not eat anything that is packaged food--the chemcals seem to affect the joints.. this iliminates all that sodium and there is no extra SWELLING.... also, i never ate much meat, and hear-tell it is loaded with "extras".... (but i do get protien, i just take care how i do it...)

this may help you at least have LESS STRONG aggrivations... i nearly could not use my fingers from stiffness in joints and now they are working great... just the knuckle are a mite larger than in youth---but say, hands ARE needed for climbing, naturally....

stay active or your feet will get stiff, too... i have not had joint pains now, since i watch what i eat...(fruits and veg)

i am not sure about chappy---he in later years, at least, watched what he ate--i dont know if this same "family joint trouble" bothers him... i will ask...

also, if you KEEP STRONG thigh muscles and stomach muscles and keep your WEIGHT down, this keep extra pressure off the KNEES and they will last longer...

hoping for you all, for the best...
and i reckon some of you all may want to do the "doctor stuff" too, i am not stearing you away from such help...

but these "extras" really do keep pain away and freedom lasting longer... KEEP MOVING...!!!!

*need to edit:
i had spent some time sharing a house with folks that ate high sodium and packaged junk, etc, and i had been sharing food etc, so i knew that had made the serious change in my hands.... once i stopped that route and was on my own again, that was the proof i needed...
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
Nov 24, 2007 - 12:10am PT
hey eKat, you posted the info re the turmeric a bit ago and I tried it... the stuff really works! I noticed my shoulder really calms down with the stuff. And I REALLY notice if I stop taking it a couple days and the weird numbing ache comes back. thanks for the info..
give it a try anyone who hasn't yet. but really I think if I quit my job and climbed more the whole thing would go away.
WBraun

climber
Nov 24, 2007 - 12:20am PT
Yeah same here, Turmeric is the real deal.

And: I do what neebee said too. She's got good sense.

A real smart woman ......
TrundleBum

Trad climber
Las Vegas
Nov 24, 2007 - 01:41am PT
Cool I never knew about Turmeric as a anti-inflamatory.
However I was aware of it as a medicinal plant in hawaiian culture.
Hawaiians of old practically revered the plant.

My joints are doing quite well (knock on wood)

A few years back I had an 80+ year old aunty living with me for a short time.
She took Gluclosemine. What I noticed from observing her was that the Gluclosemine with condroitin seemed to work great, with out Condroitin was not so effective.

In the early 80's I strained my ankle on the crux of 'Lunatic Fringe'.
I hobbled for 3 days.
Two years later, same climb, same place, same motion, POP...
(you'd think I'd learn)
I thought I would be hobbling for 5 days to a week this time.

In camp Yabo saw me hobbling around and suggested 'yucca extract'
I have not been with out a bottle since.

My father has pretty bad arthritis and tried the Yucca at my suggestion.
He found the same results for arthritis as I did for general tendon/ligament rip/strains...

It is not a cure, but seems to work great for diminishing inflamation on bad days.

many times when I was a union carpenter, I would get a sore wrist and by days end could barely hold let alone swing a framing hammer. 2 caps that afternoon and two fore' bed and the next day I would feel only mild soreness, if any.

Next time I am sore I am going to try Olena/Turmeric



Anyone else have any experience with Yucca extract ?

And BTW if you do wish to try glucosemine, get it from the vet' it will cost you the same for a 5lb bucket as it does for 100 caps at a pharmacy.
monolith

Trad climber
Berkeley
Nov 24, 2007 - 01:58am PT
And if you do get glucosamine with chondroitin, be sure the chondroitin sulfate is low-molecular-weight.
Lost Arrow

Trad climber
The North Ridge of the San Fernando
Nov 24, 2007 - 02:19am PT
It hurts just to get up off the floor. Gravity pulls on me way to hard these days. If I could go live on the moon things would be much better for me.

Juan
pimp daddy wayne

climber
The Bat Caves
Nov 24, 2007 - 10:15am PT
I keep my knees strong by riding my bike. When my knees are strong my knees hurt less.
Blinny

Trad climber
NWMontana
Nov 24, 2007 - 11:36am PT
Anybody considering taking tuRmeric needs to read EVERYTHING they can get their hands on about it. . . and make an educated decision. They say if you have galstones you shouldn't take it! I guess it causes an increase in bile production.

BUT. . . for us it's the Golden Key!

TheRealBlinny can get CBC Radio in the shop and listens to it while he's building guitars. . . and he recently heard a great program on the added benefits when you take turmeric with black pepper. He told me about it and I GOOGLED it and found lots of good info on it.

I have NOT purchased any of the combined caps, yet. . . cause we have a lot of straight turmeric. . . but I will look into it when I get back from the PopGloppaGhost.

We're still only on 1/3 the regular dose. We decided to start low so we'd have room to grow. . . and 1/3 does just fine for both of us.

It's MAGIC!

Keep it alive, boys! (that's generic not genetic!)

ox

eKatAdInfinitum
SteveW

Trad climber
Denver, CO
Nov 24, 2007 - 02:17pm PT
I use Natural Factors Glucosamine & Chondoitin Sulfates,
900mg 2x daily. I have arthritis in my hip & ankle (opposites),
and it does me good. You may have to try different brands, and it takes a good six months to notice a difference as it's rebuilding some stuff in the joint (notice my precise, medical terminology). . . good luck, keep limber, and keep moving!
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
Apple Valley, California
Nov 24, 2007 - 04:37pm PT
Very,very, bad knee, back, shoulder, and a couple of injuries
not so bad. I could be a wearher man. About 3 days before
the weather changes, all the body parts that have been injured
really start screaming with arthritic pain. The weather changes double and even triple the pain I normally feel on a day to day basis.

I've tried G an C, tumeric, and quite a few different inflammatories. Of them all Tumeric seems to help a little bit,
but doesn't get rid of it entirely. I'd say maybe about 10 to 20 percent.

I was going to quit climbing a 3 months ago, and that lasted about 2 months. It seemed like when I wasn't getting my exercise by climbing, I actually started hurting MORE.
especially in the back and knee.

I guess that is something us old Climbing GEEZERS will all go thru as we are getting older. I went out climbing with the
OLD GEEZER CLIMBING CLUB, yesterday. Locker was the youngest
at 52, and the oldest was a 61y/o Korean guy name Su.
Su is in Great shape, and he was the ROPEGUN for the group.
He is either injury free and doesn't have arthritis,
Or he has some secret Korean remedy,that keeps him pain free.
I should have asked him for his secret!!!! :)


Cosmicoldgeezerinpainwitharthritiscragsman
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Nov 25, 2007 - 01:15am PT
hey there cosmiccragsman... say, as to this quote of yours:
"He is either injury free and doesn't have arthritis"

so very true....many folks dont understand how an injury can and many times does lead to arthritis later... and any joint pushed or pulled out of it proper framework will come back to haunt one... even the smallest little finger joint when bearing too much pressure while lifting, just to carry gear... folks dont realize it is best to use the whole hand to bear such pressures... learning this, usually comes the hard way, though, when it is near too late...

hey there wbraun... thank you, kind sir... say, how ya' doing?.... say, at my age, i'm trying to keep all my sense as shiney as possible, so it will all add-up to some good treasure... :)


hey there, all, say, i always put tumeric to use in general cooking--but--i do not know if this ammounts to much help or not, as i could never expericment with taking more of it from health food stores, etc.... sure hope this bit does some good, too... :)
ron gomez

Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
Nov 25, 2007 - 10:09am PT
Arthritis can limit activity depending on the severity and the joint(s) involved. Range of motion exercises, joint mobilization, strengthening exercises, heat and meds can all help with the condition. Limit activity during yer flare ups and keep the joint(s) and surrounding area in good condition to help reduce stresses on the effected joint(s). Have you been diagnosed with OA or RA? There are some conditions that can feel like arthritis, but may not be arthritis, conditions that involve the joint capsule, surrounding soft tissue and other inflammations. Good luck with the treatments, stay active as you can as a preventative measure.
Peace
jgill

climber
Colorado
Nov 25, 2007 - 09:32pm PT
At 70 my knees are in pretty good shape - I've been climbing for 54 years - but I have severe arthritis in my shoulders. Also, chronic rotator cuff problems (minor). I take glucosamine tablets that also include chondroitin and - this I think is the key ingredient - hyaluronic acid (for lubrication of joints). It has worked well for me. About two weeks after starting I felt a fair amount of improvement. I had been taking glucosamine for quite awhile before this.
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
Nov 25, 2007 - 09:35pm PT
I just saw a short article re hyaluronic acid. it's a homeopathic remedy isn't it? goes by another name? sounds like you had some good result with that. I wonder if it would work for myopathy or spondylosis?
jgill

climber
Colorado
Nov 27, 2007 - 09:18pm PT
no, not homeopathic. Hyaluronic acid is an important ingredient of the fluid that lubricates joints. Tests have shown that it reaches the joints when taken orally. It's also been injected directly into joints by physicians in other countries, but the FDA has restricted it to knees here (I think, could be wrong). Certainly not shoulders, like mine.
Guck

Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
Jan 22, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
It is time to join the club! Old bones are creaking, and my hands cannot do a one finger pullup (never could). This tread had a lively discussion about arthritic remedies and I wonder if the fans of turmeric are still fans, and which brand is most effective. It has been six years since the tread started, long enough to have some proven results. Is there anyone out there still taking the stuff? Does it still work?
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Jan 22, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
I had the hyaluronic acid injections (5) a year ago. Seemed to work for awhile, but I am pretty much back to lots of knee pain again
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 22, 2013 - 12:42pm PT
Does arthritis or joint pain limit what you can do?


absolutely not

I am 62 and arthritic as hell

and I can't do anything anymore
wayne w

Trad climber
the nw
Jan 22, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
Still taking Turmeric, Guck, still getting exceptional results.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Jan 22, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
Wayne, where do you buy it, what dose do you use?
Guck

Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
Jan 22, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
Thanks for the feedback Wayne. Do you have a recommendation for a brand name? Is Glucosamine any help? It is quite frustrating to feel the grip of "old age" (I am 65 yeard young) while some seniors are still waltzing on the rocks!
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 22, 2013 - 02:15pm PT
TURMERIC!

As stated, a high-quality Turmeric is the real deal but be aware it takes a couple of months to solidly saturate and take maximum effect. I went from decades of having to dose a chronic, old shoulder injury after every climbing session to being able to do eighteen hour days with only minor twinges that night and following day.

One caveat is if you are prone to kidney stones. In that case you need to get a high-quality version of just Curicumin, the principle active ingredient. Tons of active academic research going on relative to both if you hit scholar.google.com
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jan 22, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
I use the turmeric. Seems to be very helpful for me with inflammation (I should note that I do not take ibuprofen or other meds, so I feel reasonably confident it is the effects of the turmeric).

Recent research shows that pipperine (a compound in black pepper) increases the uptake and efficacy of turmeric something like 2000%. So add some black pepper with your dose.

I buy turmeric in bulk at the local WinCo grocery store, and it is dirt cheap that way. Like maybe $1/month kind of cheap. Dosage for me is about 1 tsp/day, either dissolved as a tea or used as a condiment in my regular food.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jan 22, 2013 - 04:05pm PT
Hyaluronic acid - insisted on it after my knee surgery before it was routinely prescribed to old people (>40). It took threats of growing cartilege in a petri dish or a knee replacement to encourage the insurance company to allow the injections 14 years ago. Now it is more widely available and I had great results.

I have one finger that is a total mess, and I suspect arthritis. Don't know if anything can be done about that. While it hurts to move, I have found no adverse impact on climbing yet. That's probably because it is just one finger and I cowardly only climb moderate routes.

I take glucosamine daily (when I remember), and it has helped my knees and had no affect on my finger. Study results show that 30% of people who try this treatment have a good result. Could it be a placebo affect? After 14 years, I notice when I have skipped too many days of those pills. So I still take them.

The Boomer generation that does not want to be coach ridden will demand changes in treatment which will lead to a better quality of life for older, arthritic people going forward.

Remember that many OTC pain remedies - and prescription arthritis drugs - can be blood thinners (more bleeding if you fall, tough on your digestive track (GI bleeding) or toxic to your liver in larger doses over a long time. I'm avoiding all pain medications as much as I can. In the middle of a long trip where I am part of a team, I will take what I have to in order to perform. For weekend warrior and daily life, I avoid it as much as I can.

If you stop moving, you will age faster.....
darkmagus

Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 22, 2013 - 04:12pm PT
Hyaluronic acid is really cool, I think that in conjunction with some other supplements can be a good thing. Specifically the combination of glucosamine, chondroitin, and omega-3 fatty acids. We recommend that combination to a lot of our patients with joint pain (usually due to degenerative arthritis). Load up on them! And drink lots of water all of the time!

Also, resting worsens osteoarthritis (the type of arthritis associated with aging), so moving around will always be a good thing.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Jan 22, 2013 - 04:16pm PT
At age 66 I suddenly started having arthritis in my middle finger and thumb which got rammed into a haul bag while holding a big leader fall 46 years before, so old climbing injuries can catch up with you.

So far, mine is tolerable without meds but gets much worse in humid weather and when the atmospheric pressure changes. Like cosmigram I can predict weather three days out. Typhoons with their big barometer drops are the worst. So far the best thing I can do for myself is retire to a dry climate.

And one other good thing about turmeric. People in India have the lowest rates of alzheimers of any group in the world and it has been traced back to their heavy use of turmeric.
Cragar

Trad climber
MSLA - MT
Jan 22, 2013 - 04:31pm PT
How are y'all taking the turmeric/black pepper? Capsule or in food? Both?

Thanks!
wayne w

Trad climber
the nw
Jan 22, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
Glucosamine can have side effects in regard to upsetting ones stomach for some. I have never had that problem with Turmeric. I take two 400 mg capsules most days, and sometimes take another one when I have been really pushing it. Makes a tremendous difference for me. Buying in bulk and adding to your food, or capping your own is the most cost effective way. I also buy Turmeric from Puritan's pride sometimes when they have their buy one get three free promotion. Hope this helps you Guck and Moosedrool. What do you have to lose but some pain and discomfort?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 22, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
40 years of climbing here, still reasonably active (with age and temperment adjusted goals)....

I live with joint pain, every day. Some days are worse than others. Elbows have been giving me fits this week for example.

I made her my friend a long time ago (pain). Now I don't ever want to exceed my most painful experiences, not ever again. Thought my eyes would pop out last time threshold was exceeded.

But she is my friend nevertheless and I'm a climber and (former?) alpinist, so Pain is also my Lover. Like many of you, many of my brethren, I am Masochist after all.

But a lot of the joint pain and pulled muscles I've enjoyed over the years?

They weren't joint or muscle problems, no. They were WEIGHT PROBLEMS.

If a person is overweight and feeling joint pain as the result of physical activity, I would recommend LOSING WEIGHT as a first and necessary step.

DMT

ps. Can you take it? Are you SURE???!!! Can you REALLY take it? How do you KNOW? (there is only ONE way to know, for sure, so... can you take it?)
steveA

Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
Jan 22, 2013 - 05:04pm PT
I bet Fred Beckey feels pretty sore all the time!

Remember that pain is a mind thing; however when your fingers really don't function, or other joints like knees and hips, because there simply frozen, like a rusted nut and bolt, you have a real problem.

I just try to deal with the pain and go on from there, knowing that it sucks, but in reality, is just a mental thing.

If it wasn't for the love of climbing, I would be totally out of shape,
like all my brothers and sisters, who have no athletic interest.

At 66, I'm still getting up 5.10 trad, but not as well as my old buddy Donini; who is even older!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 22, 2013 - 05:23pm PT
Go get bitten by a scorpion. No, seriously! Read the current issue of Nat Geo on venoms.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Jan 22, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
Thanks Wayne.

For my palindromic arthritis I take Humira injections every two weeks. If I miss one, I get inflammation in my joins (usually one join at a time) and I am pretty much crippled. Humira works really well at a cost of $20,000 a year or so. But I also started developing this old age related arthritis. I will try turmeric for sure.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Jan 22, 2013 - 06:42pm PT
This is a sort of progress report, since I posted back in 2007. At nearly 76 I am enjoying moderate bodyweight exercises, although I gave up climbing several years ago due to severe shoulder arthritis and reduced confidence in soloing. There is a short video of me exercising with a link on the first page of my website.

I have taken glucosamine (2000 units/day) for about eight years, and so far my legs and other joints are fine - the shoulders flamed out some time ago. I take 600 mg of ibuprofen in the morning and one or two tablets (200mg) more during a 24 hour period. Without the "vitamin I" I would be in some pain whenever I used my shoulders. I admire those who disdain this NSAID and are able to function well without it, but for me it is wonderful. I have had no side-effects so far, and I have been taking it for almost a decade.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
Jan 22, 2013 - 08:56pm PT
ive got pretty bad arthritis(left leg< walk with a limp) im 53, it hurts unless i take Tumeric.or Vicoden.
i just climbed the Widows Tears last week and didnt feel too bad the next day.
its Tumeric for me.
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Jan 22, 2013 - 09:00pm PT
I'm still on 1/3 dose of turmeric. . . IT WORKS!

Been on it for years and years.

YAY!

(I used to be Blinny)
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 23, 2013 - 02:22am PT
A couple of notes on things the bedevil many of us, from my 30+ years of practice:

There are different types of arthritis. Responses to treatments and outcomes will vary dramatically as to the cause. Last time I looked there were 45 different types.

Setting aside the more esoteric types, there are generally two issues to consider: structural deformities, and inflammation.

My observation is that structural deformities (a bone broke, cartilege was torn, a tendon ripped) is somewhat like a flat tire.....it doesn't matter what kind of air you put in, whether it has Turmeric or Glucosamine.....it doesn't change the abnormality. The main treatment (short of repair) is pain control.

Inflammation is very different. There also may be considerable inflammation associated with a deformity. Generally, you want to attack the inflammation, although you may ALSO attack the pain.

In western medicine, the big deal is treating with NSAIDS...such as advil.

One thing that is poorly understood is that for many of these 40-odd drugs, they treat BOTH pain and inflammation. However, the dosage may be different! For the example of Advil, the pain dosage is the OTC dose, two tabs twice a day. Pushing the dose does not really increase the pain effect, much. HOWEVER, the anti-inflammatory dose does not really kick in until you get to the prescription dosage, which would be 16 tablets a day.

There is also considerable differences in potency of these drugs. Diclofenac (Voltaren, Cataflam) is generally considered about the strongest, and the top dose is 75mg twice daily. It is generic, and cheap(3 months/$10)

I don't have a problem with the herbal remedies, but a word of caution: Many have not been vetted for safety, particularly over a long time. I think they are generally safe, but Caveat Emptor.

For those who have arthritis in their hands, and some other joints, an old fashioned remedy that works well for some, is a Paraffin Bath. I use one daily, and it really helps. It also treates dry skin!
You can pick them up for about $25, and no adverse reactions.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 23, 2013 - 03:13am PT
A regular regimen of bicycling and beer seems to have kept my joints in good working order for 65 years.

I did my best to detach my left leg twelve years ago, and when they bolted it back on they told me I'd soon have arthritis in my hip, but so far that hasn't happened.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 23, 2013 - 03:47am PT
The primary solution the medical establishment has for the commonplace ills of mankind are prescription and OTC drugs. Period.

Donald, while I understand why you say that, and don't totally disagree, you should have some perspective, that perhaps you don't:

Virtually all physicians spend a significant amount of time imparting information on lifestyle modification. Diabetes is a perfect example of a disease process that is prone to such modification. You can imagine the frustration of imparting such advice, and seeing it ignored. After you see 10 in a row.....100 in a row....1000 in a row. At a certain point in time, I think many physicians just give up, and move onto the things that they know will actually produce a superior outcome.

It's easy to give advice, when there is no consequence of being wrong. The example of Jim Fixx comes to mind. Could not have led a healthier lifestyle. And yet, there is virtually no doubt that medications could have saved his life.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 23, 2013 - 04:39am PT
jogill: I have taken glucosamine (2000 units/day) for about eight years, and so far my legs and other joints are fine - the shoulders flamed out some time ago. I take 600 mg of ibuprofen in the morning and one or two tablets (200mg) more during a 24 hour period. Without the "vitamin I" I would be in some pain whenever I used my shoulders. I admire those who disdain this NSAID and are able to function well without it, but for me it is wonderful. I have had no side-effects so far, and I have been taking it for almost a decade.

This is precisely what I did for years and years for my bad shoulder - 800mg of 'I' daily - until I started taking the Turmeric. But after three months with the turmeric I have less pain than I ever with the advil.

P.S. KenM, yes, I realize Turmeric does nothing for the condition of my shoulder, but rather just manages the pain and inflammation.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 23, 2013 - 04:54am PT
DT: ...the medical establishment

Ken, it's not you, Donald just has a problem with 'establishments' not on the Rovian-approved list of high lobby dollar institutions.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 23, 2013 - 09:11am PT
Aside from the side effect of causing you to change your name frequently, turmeric is good. Follow e..'s suggestion and google it.

Resveratrol is good.

Vitamin D is good.

Gluc/Chond worked well on my sore shoulder once. Doesn't seem to be nearly as effective these days. No studies of consequences of long-term use.

BTW - I have no arthritis, knee pain is due to torn meniscus.

Oh yeah, NAC (n-acetyl cysteine, precursor to glutathione) is good.


Capsaicin for immediate relief.
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Jan 23, 2013 - 09:14am PT
http://www.puritan.com/turmeric-510/turmeric-400-mg-000525

photo not found
Missing photo ID#285890
hossjulia

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
Jan 23, 2013 - 09:18am PT
Donald Thompson is on track here.
After experimenting with the popular supplements for about 12 years, I came across something I rarely see in relation to arthritis type joint pain. Ph balance. Most Americans have an extremely acidic diet, coffee and alcohol are the #1 culprits, but our standard diet contributes.
I started brewing my own Kombucha a few years ago. While it is an acidic substance, it helps alkalize our system. This constant Ph toward the acidic is damaging to joints, and possibly muscle tissue, connections in the brain, etc. It seems that if you can get your Ph balance more in balance, toward the alkaline, it is soothing and healing to these stressed tissues.

Last summer my knees were absolutely killing me. I finally went in to see an ortho when the pain was making me nauseous. About that time I lost my job. I got 3 injections of hyralonic acid in my left knee over 2 weeks, the right one just needed a little rest.

1 week after the final injection, I left on the JMT. No, or little coffee, just green tea, and a fairly Ph balanced diet for 30 days.

My knees were pain free, and other than aches and soreness related to the pack, no muscle pain that lasted for days, no "fuzzy brain", in short, I felt 10 years younger.

More to this story;
When I went in to see the Dr., I got some blood work done and came back as Hypothryoid. They put me on Synthroyd, which helped pull me out of it, but was hell to take. I did not take any on the JMT trip, it messed with my heart rate at altitude too much and left me weak.
Anywho, after doing MORE research, I came across that Hypothyroidism is linked to acidic Ph. AND, that raw cruciform vegetables, chlorine and fluoride block thyroid hormone up take. As well as being acidic substances. Cook those veggies al dente and they transform.
I had been heavy on raw veggies, especially broccoli and cauliflower, drinking whatever water and using toothpaste with fluoride. You get the picture.
198 miles in 30 days cleared me out. The thyroid issue has resolved.


It's the Ph man, check it out.


(I use a ton of turmeric in my cooking, seems to help.)
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Jan 23, 2013 - 10:16am PT
Jim Fixx was a heavy smoker and had an extremely poor diet and lifestyle up till age 35. That's why his story was so compelling. Even after he started running, he felt diet was not that important. Drugs may or may not have helped, but educating people earlier in life about far better solutions will have the most impact. MD's just don't have the time for this. and look to other solutions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-robbins/what-should-we-learn-from_b_815943.html
slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Jan 23, 2013 - 10:21am PT
I tried Glucosemine until I discovered I had a shellfish reaction- not good. Ginger seems to help though.
I just had hip #2 replaced and not being able to take Vitamin I is a pain ... no nsaid's on blood thinners.. only for one more week though.

I think it interesting the link between stress and arthritis flares.. this certainly exists for me....

john
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 23, 2013 - 10:27am PT
It is often a revelation to most docs that high glycemic carbs , when consumed without restraint , often leads to epidemic levels of Diabetes 2.

All I can say is that you have talked to a very small number of doctors, to make a statement about "most docs".

In reality, what most docs say when asked about giving such advice: a waste of time, because they'll follow it for a week, then stop. All objective measures worsen with time. That's experience from people who are actually responsible for what happens.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 23, 2013 - 10:29am PT
P.S. KenM, yes, I realize Turmeric does nothing for the condition of my shoulder, but rather just manages the pain and inflammation.

There is nothing wrong with that in my book!

I'd take Turmeric in a second, if I didn't have repetitive kidney stones (one of which I'm dealing with at the moment)
steve shea

climber
Jan 23, 2013 - 10:52am PT
For me with blown achilles, 1 ACL, 2MCLs, several tib/fib breaks, one severe I have an IM rod multiple plates and screws, and a neck fusion, I am in surprisingly good shape pain wise. I have been injured off and on since 1980 and am used to pain and rehab and all attendant problems. I think Steve A. is correct, use it or lose it. I think I have had some pain so long I've raised my pain threshold without thinking about it. I wanted to do mountain sports and figured out a way to cope. I'm lucky and still have good knee cartilage, genetics? The one residual effect from prior activity, I used to run a lot, is a bad case of IT band inflamation which will not go away. What to do? I work out 3 times week with a Mt. Athlete type program. Lots of core and movement. Drink lots of water and stretch. The workouts make me sleep like a baby.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:00am PT
Ken, I have the same recurring kidney stones issue, but take Curicumin C3 Complex from Sabinsa corp.

Here's their paper on the oxalate content of their product:

http://www.curcuminoids.com/Position_Paper_on_Oxalate_in_Turmeric.pdf
bjj

climber
beyond the sun
Jan 23, 2013 - 12:32pm PT
I had arthritis of the hip strike me at a relatively young age (42) about a year and a half ago. It happened during a summer where I was spending a lot of time in the gym, lifting very heavy and doing a lot of cycling. Just came out of nowhere and got pretty bad, pretty quick. It runs in my family, I have come to find out.

Within a few months it was so bad I had stopped all physical activity and was walking with a noticeable limp on numerous days of the week.

7 months ago, after ending up sedentary for half a year+ because of it, I started investigating options. Doctors told me surgery / replacement should be a last resort, especially because of my young age.

To make a long story short, what ended up helping the most was going to a Pilates studio and doing special strengthening exercises several days a week - along with general conditioning. I first hobbled in there 8 months ago almost 20 pounds heavier (including useless muscle bulk) with a massive imbalance of weakness across my whole lower left side. It was causing the additional problem of a knee pulled out of alignment and now starting to also hurt.

I won't claim I am 100% better, but it is now very manageable and for the most part no longer holds me back from any sports. Lack of range of motion means big left foot high steps and wide stems are pretty iffy, but besides that, I am good to go. I just have to come up with different solutions to certain moves.

I just started climbing again 3 months ago after being inactive (for other reasons) for 10 years, and the arthritis is still not yet a limiting factor. I am on-sighting hard 5.10 again. I'm also ok again on the bicycle, though I can't pedal in a full tuck. The thing that gives me the most scares, is walking DOWN steep hills, especially when I am tired. My left side becomes lazy when fatigued and I am prone to falling down on walk offs.

The only "supplements" I have used for it has been ibuprofen. I am going to start looking in to turmeic (sp?) and some of the other things listed.

So far, staying more active than ever, getting down to the lowest weight possible and keeping all the muscles of the area very strong have been the keys to slowing this down.

Good luck to all the cartilage deficient!
wayne w

Trad climber
the nw
Jan 23, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
Bjj, you may benefit from using a pair of hiking poles, especially when walking downhill. Place the poles out in front of you to lean on when taking a step with your left leg. By using your upper body strength you can help to compensate for whatever weakness there is on your left side. Falling over is no fun.
bjj

climber
beyond the sun
Jan 23, 2013 - 12:45pm PT
That would probably help, but means I'd have to bring them along on long routes for the walk offs. That's pretty much the only time I put myself in a position of doing long downhill hiking.
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
Three years ago the main joint on my left big toe was basically frozen with limited range of motion, pain during walking, and excruciating pain with direct contact, so I couldn't even put on climbing shoes and foot jams were out of the question. The podiatrist I saw took x-rays and a few other tests and told me it was osteoarthritis and there was nothing I could do about it. He said it would only get worse over time, and I would eventually require a titanium joint replacement.

That was, of course, unacceptable. I went to see an accupuncturist who agreed that there is never "nothing you can do about it," and after three treatments of about 40 minutes, spread over two weeks, I had nearly full mobility and the pain was largely gone. I started taking glucosamine and fish oil supplements, and was able to lace on climbing shoes and return to the rock 2-4 times a week. I also massage in Iron Hand liniment or Arnica gel 1-2 times a day.

Today the toe is only slightly swollen looking, and is not a factor whatsoever as to what I can do. I just started taking daily turmeric about 2 weeks ago, so we'll see how that goes.
slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
bjj- I had my first hip replaced at age 45, almost 8 years ago and it's doing great.
The left one, 2 weeks ago was " a bone not fit for beast or soup" shot. I weird because other than scopes, the knees are OK.. knock, knock

Edge- you got toes that the Doc says " I don't want to know.."
c_vultaggio

Trad climber
new york
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
Another happy Turmeric user - I get mine through Mountain Rose herbs online, I think <$10 for a lb of organic. I mix in my breakfast cereal daily, about a total tbs worth or slightly more, with almond milk. Also good in a tea (almond milk, turmeric, honey, cinnamon, and cardamom).

Also check out Collagen - great research in the UK on auto-immune efficacy with joint issues. Something about how it steps in to prevent the body attacking the small joint tears (RA). I use a type II supplement in my smoothies mixed with a protein powder.

Fish oil I find works well (among other benefits) and would probably help the cause, I've had limited success with glucosamine/MSM.

Best words of advice for supps I ever got was "The most expensive supplement is the one that doesn't work." In other words, buy the expensive stuff if you want it to work, the cheap COSTCO crap will never absorb into your body.





darkmagus

Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 23, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
Ok, I'm gonna say it!!

As a chiropractor I see a lot of patients with joint pain. I'm assuming we're talking about the joint pain associated with osteoarthritis (OA) aka degenerative arthritis, degenerative joint disease (DJD), degenerative disc disease (DDD), etc. It's all roughly the same. It's not inflammatory arthritis (e.g. Rheumatoid Arthritis, Systemic Lupus Erythematosis, Reiter's Syndrome, etc.)

Many people do not know, and are quite surprised to learn that nearly every joint in the body can be "manipulated" or "adjusted". Does it feel "stuck"? Like it's not moving properly? Is it also a bit painful? Maybe more painful with certain movements than others? Well let me tell you my trick!! I adjust these joints when they don't move the way they should. By carefully and specifically introducing motion into joints, they experience a few benefits...

The first one is purely biomechanical: the joint can now move throughout its normal range of motion.

The second one is neurological: any joint in the body, when immobilized in one or more directions, sends pain signals back to the brain to let you know that something "ain't right". Performing the proper adjustment restores the joint to its normal position so that these neurological signals of pain are no longer sent.

The third one is biochemical: careful and specific manipulation of any joint increases the flow of synovial fluid to and from that joint, which is the fluid within the joint capsule that provides nutrients, shock absorption, etc.

A story: I have a patient with hip pain on the left side. The hip joint becomes painful, she feels it with each step, and the hip joint does not have its normal expected range of motion. The adjustment happens, the magical "pop" is heard, and she giggles EVERY TIME. She thinks I'm some sort of weird magician. Or the Bruce Lee of the spine (hip). She doesn't really care to hear the explanations, she just likes that it works. ;)

So there it is. Straight from a rock climbing chiropractor. Feel free to ask me anything at any time!
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 23, 2013 - 02:47pm PT
Sincere question - do you come from one of those schools that views chiropractic as a cure-all?

I ask because I have a 30-year history of chiropractic adjustment and I, personally, have leaned to fear The Cult of Chiropractic. I still get my spine manipulated - I call it what it truly is: crack my back. I pay a guy $30 cash on the counter, to do it. That's it, no hocus pocus for me.

I'm curious because you're part of the industry, or whatever you may call it. Shed some insider light on the topic? I don't know you and this is in no way designed to be a broad-side against your profession. But to my way of thinking and I have done business with some of its practioneers, there are some quacks out there who claim a cure for the common cold and other such ridiculous things, arising from spinal misadjustment. I find such claims incredible, literally.

DMT
darkmagus

Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
DMT, thanks for that post! I hope that I can serve as some sort of "ambassador" for my profession here at supertopo.

The way I explain the "cure-all" angle is like this: there is a "vocal minority" in our profession that operates in that manner. They believe that they're not responsible for diagnosing conditions, that all they do as a chiropractor is find subluxations, adjust the spine, and let the body heal itself. While that is consistent with licensing guidelines, state board requirements, etc., it's not the way to go, IMO. It's true that any doctor can practice any way they want once they get a license, they can be really weird and bizarre, do a lot of things that aren't evidence-based, and this includes many medical doctors as well as chiropractors.

I don't personally see chiropractic as a "cure-all", but occasionally people report odd things as a result of getting adjusted, like sleeping more soundly, breathing more easily, seeing or hearing more clearly, getting sick less frequently, etc. These are all things that chiropractors experience when they treat patients, it's what the patients tell me. I don't know for sure if that's really true, because a lot of these things haven't been studied in depth. But perhaps some chiropractors take those little tidbits and run with them, giving themselves more credit than they should...

I view my role as providing conservative (non-drug, non-surgical) outpatient care for musculoskeletal conditions. Occasionally I see people that have conditions that aren't helped by chiropractic care, so I refer them to the appropriate specialist (an M.D.). I run an evidence-based office, that's what I call it. I'm known for treating people just ONE TIME and "fixing them" with one good adjustment. I'm not worried about "retention" and keeping people coming back indefinitely. I figure they'll tell a friend about how I fixed them and I'll get referrals that way. Most people do adopt a schedule that works for them, like once per month or something. I definitely recommend that.

I gotta say that I give chiropractic a TON of credit for keeping me injury-free and feeling amazing. I climb 5 days per week and it definitely helps with the little aches and pains, and to stay flexible.
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Jan 24, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
I'm 27 and in an orthopedic waiting room to look into meniscus surgery on my knee. Am I screwed? Will I be on this thread in my 30s? Anyone have good news for me? Should I just become a golfer?
darkmagus

Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 24, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
I'd consider "conservative care" options first! Being only 27, you might have a darn good chance of conservative interventions giving you relief, rather than going for the "big guns" (surgery)!
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 24, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
dark m - thanks for that well-considered reply.

Cheers!
DMT

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 24, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
Limpingcrab, take up golf and you'll be knocking on Dark Magus' door regularly.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Jan 24, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
There is absolutely no correlation between arthritic aging changes and pain. Arthritis limits mobility, but does not "cause" pain (although the structural anomaly may 'trigger' it). Arthritis is one issue, pain is quite another. I read above where a 42 year old did a bunch of lifting and biking and then suddenly in two weeks, he was racked with crippling hip pain. Arthritis doesn't work like that. Arthritis is slow and gradual, not sudden and catastrophic. Self-imposed pressure to over-achieve, though, can trigger a PPD or chronic pain episode at the location of arthritic changes. Checking out the relationship between your unconscious emotional life and the onset of pain syndromes is the key to eliminating them. Utilizing the power of a placebo cure, like a joint supplement or chiro session, can also work too.

Although most aches and pains are 95% the result of stress, it's really important to get checked out by a traditional doctor to rule out any preexisting medical condition because a lot of autoimmune disorders (and cancer) can cause lower-back and joint pain.
elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
Jan 24, 2013 - 03:38pm PT
I am 68 and have tried most of the stuff mentioned, including Turmeric on Werners advice... none of it has worked for me. I just this morning had a long talk with my specialist and we looked at the Xrays together. My right shoulder joint has no cartledge left in it and thus it is bone on bone. I played a vicious game of racquetball for many years and of course climbing and other physical activities. I just wore out that joint and am in some pain most of the time and have very limited range of motion. Fortunately my left shoulder is fine, and my hips, legs and lower joints are fine even though I am as fat as a town dog.
I am living with it ... most likely will have to have a replacement somewhere along the line. One can try all the homeopathic stuff, chemicals, needles, etc you want but they only work for those with something left to work with... so.... beware people... throughout most of human existance people didn't live much past 40, so we didn't evolve to have good joints at 70 and, unless you do things in moderation, you can't expect to be as agile as you were back in your younger days. Take a look at Bridwells hands sometime! Arthritis can be genetic a lot of the time and thus maybe you will escape its ravages. However if you abuse your joints with constant stress then you can expect some bad outcomes later on. Getting old isn't for the weak!! Good luck folks!
SpokaneBob

Ice climber
Spokane, Washington
Jan 24, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
Hi John,

I read your reply with interest. Knowing you have a disciplined mind I wonder if you might share any insights you have gained over time with taking this supplement for arthritis. For instance is hyaluronic acid best taken ingested in tablet form? Is it best to take it on an empty stomach or with food? Is there a perferred dose per Kg of body mass to obtain benefits (some supplements, drugs, etc., must be used above a certain threshold for one to receive its beneficial effects)? Does time of day matter, i.e., for example is it best taken prior to going to bed? Sometimes such variables do not matter, but sometimes they do. I would appreciate any wisdom you might care to share.

Cheers,

Bob Loomis, Spokane, Washington
darkmagus

Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
Bruce! Great point about the lack of correlation between arthritis (as verified by radiographs) and pain. I often tell my patients about that, as a way to provide encouragement and hope that despite your x-rays showing degeneration, the pain is not "guaranteed for life".

But what you said about musculoskeletal pain in general is probably an over-estimation of the psychosocial aspects of pain. There is indeed much to be learned when looking at pain from a purely psychological perspective. But normal physiology does in fact 'permit' pain, it is definitely real, and it has very well-known neurological origins. Specifically the spinothalamic tract in the CNS, and in the nociceptive ("Type IV") nerve fibers which transmit pain (and incidentally, temperature sensation). But what you stated does touch upon some very important aspect of working in a clinical setting: proper orthopedic testing. This can include testing to determine if a person is a malingerer (faking) or if there is a psycho-somatic component of the pain that the person is experiencing. An example of this is "McBride's test".

Chiropractic is not a placebo treatment just like acupuncture is not a placebo treatment just like Celebrex is not a placebo treatment.

Pain is REALLY REAL!

And I agree that anyone with pain ought to get an accurate diagnosis. Which could be equally well provided by any number of professionals: medical doctors versed in musculoskeletal conditions, orthopedic doctors, doctors of chiropractic, doctors of osteopathy, etc. The definition of "traditional" has changed to include all of the above, one reason being that we all work from the same book of diagnostic codes: the International Classification of Diseases (ICD).

PS: Love your Castle Rock guide ;)
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:27pm PT
Utilizing the power of a placebo cure, like a joint supplement or chiro session, can also work too.

I had an interesting experience with chiropractic in about 1995. It was certainly not placebo. I had been in a bad car crash which I was lucky to walk away from. Over the following weeks though it became apparent to me that I was not uninjured. I felt "crooked," developed back and neck pain and had trouble sleeping.

Finally I started seeing a local chiropractor, and after each visit I would feel better for a while but it would not last. Sensing my frustration, this chiro decided she was not doing me any good and she was kind enough to refer me to her "mentor," as she described him.

This guy was different. On my first visit he did almost nothing. He had me walk around in my shorts while he observed, and then he did some subtle massage and said to come back the next day. On this second (and last) visit he laid me out face up on the table, and walked around me gently laying his hands on me here and there. He was slow and gentle, and I became very relaxed. Then without any warning he performed a sudden almost violent adjustment to my entire upper body. It felt like he popped my entire rib cage like a bug. It was like he was a martial artist or something. Immediately after I got over the shock of it I began feeling better. Within a couple of days I was back to normal. This was a profound experience.

More recently I've seen a Chiro locally here in Monrovia who studied massage with Shiatsu in Japan. He has been very helpful, with his hands and body reading skills, to loosen up my left hip which was heading for trouble a couple years ago but now that I know how to maintain it is fine now.





bjj

climber
beyond the sun
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:30pm PT
"
There is absolutely no correlation between arthritic aging changes and pain. Arthritis limits mobility, but does not "cause" pain (although the structural anomaly may 'trigger' it). Arthritis is one issue, pain is quite another. I read above where a 42 year old did a bunch of lifting and biking and then suddenly in two weeks, he was racked with crippling hip pain. Arthritis doesn't work like that. "

Um, wat?

I had it diagnosed. It is osteo arthritis. No if's, ands or buts about it. It runs in my family. The symptoms are absolutely textbook. The doctors (more than one) confirmed that is absolutely what it is.

I believe you either misread, or made some assumptions about the sequence of events. It didn't go from completely fine to "crippling" overnight. It started as mild discomfort and over the course of some months, got worse. I wouldn't call it "crippling", but it was definitely getting bad.

No offense, but I will take my evidence, which includes diagnosis by trained medical professionals over some random on the internet telling me it is due to my "unconscious emotional life" (whatever that means).

bjj

climber
beyond the sun
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
"bjj- I had my first hip replaced at age 45, almost 8 years ago and it's doing great."

Can you tell me how bad it was before going under the knife? Mine is doing well now due to a combination of lots of PT exercises, losing some weight, moderate used of ibuprofen and avoiding movements and positions that aggravate it.

If I wasn't so into climbing and other sports, I probably would barely notice it on a day to day basis.

I would love to have it completely "fixed" such that I can do wide stems and big left foot high steps / rock overs again, but I'd rather avoid surgery as long as possible.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Jan 24, 2013 - 05:26pm PT
Before doing hip replacement surgery, it's a very good idea to have both hips X-rayed to see if the "normal" hip and the "injured" hip have the same amount of aging changes. If they do, what's wrong exactly with the hip that's being replaced? Test, don't guess.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 24, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
Stem cells.

Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 24, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
both hips X-rayed

I've had several very successful joint surgeries, and my understanding is that contrast MRI and or CT is the only way to get a clear image of soft tissue in / around a joint and even then there can be surprises during an invasive procedure.

I should point out that my surgeries (so far) have been to repair traumatic injuries, not degenerative problems which are a different situation altogether.

Anyway good luck and good fortune to everyone. Getting old in any kind of style is not for the faint of heart.
slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Jan 24, 2013 - 06:14pm PT
At 45 , my right hip was shot.. top of the joint was almost concave.. I asked what my alternate was and the Doc said "in 6 months , you will bein wheelchair"

I was dragging it as the dead leg. A recent xray showed no decline or wear after 8 years... No more Devil's tower 5.12 but other than that, not really any huge issues. You do know it's there though and I guess thats good- I hear disloctions are pretty bad.
With the hip a couple weeks ago, the Doc stretched things out a bit (quad, psoas, etc) while inserting the implant. it hurt like hell for a week, but now it's OK. I guess this is a way to keep the dislocation risks down (and get the atrophyed muscles going)

I'm on the thera bands now and start swimming saturday
jogill

climber
Colorado
Jan 24, 2013 - 07:21pm PT
There is absolutely no correlation between arthritic aging changes and pain. Arthritis limits mobility, but does not "cause" pain (although the structural anomaly may 'trigger' it). Arthritis is one issue, pain is quite another

This is absolute baloney. Tissue becomes inflamed around the arthritic joint and to the afflicted one becomes indistinguishable from the other. It is true some people have osteoarthritis limiting motion or strength without accompanying pain (my mother did after an accident, at an old age), but one should not generalize.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:06pm PT
'Inflammation" = Not proven (Scots Verdict)
WBraun

climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:12pm PT
The gross material body is the source of all misery .......
xkyczar

Trad climber
denver
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:30pm PT
Interesting review of several osteoarthritis studies conducted on climbers.

http://scienceblogs.com/webeasties/2013/01/22/rock-climbing-fat-fingers-and-arthritis/

Seems to conclude that there is no conclusion.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:34pm PT
Do-it-yourself self-estem pills. Feel better about pain, and for cheap.
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
after several attempts at alleviating the effects of arthritic knees, I think I will try acupuncture.
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