A new %$X(! Lyme Disease coming your way

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couchmaster

climber
pdx
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 26, 2013 - 10:41am PT
As if you didn't have too much to worry about. The last line "he is reviewing old cases and has discovered the strain in other patients who were undiagnosed." makes me think of Lynne Leichtfuss husband Dan. She's mentioned several times on this board that she felt he had Lyme Disease but passed away with it being as yet undiagnosed.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/01/25/n-j-woman-becomes-first-in-u-s-diagnosed-with-new-deer-tick-disease/

"N.J. Woman Becomes First In U.S. Diagnosed With New Deer Tick Disease
Same Species That Causes Lyme Infected 81-Year-Old With Something Else
January 25, 2013 9:44 PM

FLEMINGTON, N.J. (CBSNewYork) — A New Jersey woman is lucky to be alive after catching a mysterious illness from a tick bite.

Anna Felix, 81, of Kingwood Township, said she feared her lymphoma had returned or she might have dementia when she started getting weak and confused and lost 30 pounds.

“I remember I couldn’t eat too well. And I started needing help to walk,” Felix told CBS 2’s Hazel Sanchez on Friday.

Initial tests were inconclusive, and although she showed symptoms of Lyme disease, Felix tested negative. Lab technicians at Hunterdon Medical Center made a breakthrough discovery when they examined her spinal fluid and found an unusual strain of bacteria they had never seen before.

“It was really spectacular. We knew we were on to something really big and that she would be treated and cured,” lab tech Amy Kurynow said.

Doctor Joseph Gugliotta confirmed it was the bacteria borrelia miyamotoi, a new disease transmitted by the same deer tick that causes Lyme disease. Felix is the first American case of this new tick-transmitted disease.

“Once I verified the organisms were there in the second spinal tap she was treated with a high dose of antibiotics and by five to seven days we were seeing improvement already,” Dr. Gugliotta said.

Felix said she likely was bitten by a tick on her farm. She’s since made a full recovery, and said she’s grateful for the lab’s life-saving discovery.

“It is amazing, and I hope that through this other people will get help, too,” Felix said.

Because of the newly discovered bacteria, Dr. Gugliotta said he is reviewing old cases and has discovered the strain in other patients who were undiagnosed."
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 26, 2013 - 11:10am PT
This is the good side of medicine - research and helping/saving people's lives.

On the other hand, it will be interesting to find out how prevalent this version of Lyme is, if on the rise, and such. It just occurred to me that we might consider a "loaded" tick bite as being akin to being bitten by a poisonous spider or bug, or ingesting a poisonous plant.

Is this accurate, or not, since not ALL ticks carry Lyme. They get the bacteria from eating infected material, but I guess it doesn't kick their ass. Where does the very initial strain of Lyme come from? How does it get INTO to deer that also carry it?
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 11:16am PT


"How does it get INTO to deer that also carry it?"...



If a Deer has it and bites you, can you catch it???...

Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Jan 26, 2013 - 10:59pm PT
Oh couchmaster, thanks for the Thread and mentioning my incredible husband, Dan, who was finally defeated by Lyme. Note I did not use the word victim because Dan never was....he fought with all his strength and finally lost.

So many have contacted me over the past 5 years re: Lyme. I try to give them the best info I can. We found a fantastic Dr. in Thousand Oaks, CA. But Dan's body was already to far spent. Please feel free anyone to contact me re: the disease and resources etc. My children were a great help and garnered a huge amount of facts, resources and wisdom.

If anyone wants this physicians name I heartily recommend him. Just ask on this thread and I'll post it.

Lyme disease is mega complicated and tough to fight....tough to live with and endure. Prayers to all of you out there feeling its effects. Whatever I can do I will. I love each of you and will fight this with you. Lynnie
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 26, 2013 - 11:57pm PT
I have mucho to say but let's start with;

I HATE F*#KING DEER TICKS!!!44##!^7

Ugh...I hate them.

And I 'm a really nice guy. Just sayin'
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 27, 2013 - 12:01am PT
Be good, Lynne! God bless ya!

see ya around.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2013 - 12:28am PT
Thanks Lynne, if you want to put any knowledge you have up here for anyone googling it, I'm sure it would be appreciated.

Question, how this isn't too intrusive, I apologize if it is: did you know for certain that Dan had Lyme, or was it because all of the symptoms were that he did, but he never tested positive for it?

All the best:
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 27, 2013 - 12:29am PT
Well, now I feel like an ass.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 27, 2013 - 01:42am PT
Nude hiking is the only safe hiking.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Jan 27, 2013 - 02:01pm PT
couchmaster,

A Lyme specialist in Thousand Oaks, CA confirmed that Dan had the disease and treated him with IV Rocephin, but he warned Dan and I that it was most likely to late. He was the only person that prepared us for what we might expect and I am so grateful he did. Facing reality can be more than difficult, but often necessary.

I refer everyone to the above Dr. He is an Internist, but has made Lyme diagnosis and treatment a specialty. He even has a nurse in his office just for Lyme patients. We lived 3 hours away and no matter what if we called Dr. Gonzales made time for us in his schedule.

Dr. Miguel A. Gonzales
227 Janss Rd.
Thousand Oaks, CA
805-497-7508

Lyme is not really rare; just highly under diagnosed.
Shortly after Dan went to heaven, the CA State Dept. of Public Health sent out a bulletin to all physicians stating that Lyme was a threat in CA and they needed to get up to speed on the disease.

Dan had a weakened heart and lungs from radiation therapy for Hodgkins Disease when he was 30 otherwise he may have survived the Lyme Disease.
Dan was a scientist and not only studied Lyme but kept a journal about what he was experiencing (enduring). I made copies of it and gave it to his main Dr. at the hospital Dan eventually died in. I had the Dr. include it all in Dan's chart. I don't know what I hoped to accomplish by that, but it made me feel better.

Thanks for a your kind and thoughtful words. Dan died 5 years ago this past December 29th and sometimes it still feels like yesterday.





couchmaster

climber
pdx
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 3, 2013 - 09:31am PT
It's sad that an otherwise treatable disease gets missed and wrecks havok Lynne.



Todays newz, it's spreading fast: THERE ARE AN ESTIMATED 100,000 PEOPLE IN NY NOW INFECTED BY THE NEW TICK DISEASE. IT'S HEADING YOUR WAY AND YOU WON'T GET A RASK OR MARK AS A WARNING THAT YOU WERE BIT AND INFECTED.

We're all out there where these little puckers play and work, keep your eyes and ears open for you and your buddies who may think they have the flu, you won't test positive for Lyme if you have this.


"NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — A new disease spread by deer ticks has already infected 100,000 New Yorkers since the state first started keeping track.

As CBS 2’s Dr. Max Gomez reported, the new deer tick-borne illness resembles Lyme disease, but is a different malady altogether – and it could be even worse.

The common deer tick is capable of spreading dangerous germs into the human bloodstream with its bite. However, Lyme disease is one of many diseases that ticks carry.

The latest disease is related to Lyme, and an infected person will suffer similar symptoms.

“Patients with this illness will develop, perhaps, fever, headache, flu-like symptoms, muscle pains — so they’ll have typical Lyme-like flu symptoms in the spring, summer, early fall,” said Dr. Brian Fallon of Columbia University. “But most of them will not develop the typical rash that you see with Lyme disease.”

Fallon, a renowned expert on Lyme disease at the New York Psychiatric Institute, said the importance of the new bacterium – called Borrelia miyamotoi — is that it might explain cases of what looked like chronic Lyme disease, but did not test positive for Lyme.

“The problem is that the diagnosis is going to be missed, because doctors aren’t going to think about Borrelia miyamotoi because they don’t know about it. And number two, if they test for Lyme disease, it will test negative, and the rash won’t be there,” Fallon said. “So they are not going to treat with the antibiotics, so the patient will have an infection staying in their system longer than it should.

While there is no test yet for the germ, the good news is that it appears the same antibiotic that kills Lyme disease also works – if it is given in the right doses and started early in the infection.

Remember, it takes a tick bite to get Lyme disease or the new bug, and the tick usually has to feed on your blood for at least 24 hours.

If you have been outdoors, have someone else do a full body check, Gomez advised. Ticks are small – only about the size of a sesame seed."

The first New Yorker flying out to Yos that has one in his clothes or on him/her and blam, next thing ya know, Werner is a host. Then mama drops off, full, and lays eggs.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jul 3, 2013 - 11:34am PT
Just when some thought we were nearly out of the woods in understanding Lyme disease!
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Jul 3, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
Couchmaster, good thread.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 3, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
They are starting to think that many cases of SIDS are a result of toxoplasmosis from people letting their cats run loose.



In the natural world there are an almost infinite number of diseases, agents, pathogens, vectors, etc.

They are all always competing and,.... nobody gets out alive.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jul 3, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
Deer ticks actually can carry four diseases. One is Lyme and the other three are similar.

My good friend was just diagnosed with Lyme on Monday.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 3, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
It's a spirochete, related to Lyme. I had a client with Lyme who thinks that Lyme was a bio warfare project that escaped from Plum Island, just off the coast of Lyme CT. I forget the details but a spirochete has an inside and an outside part. The outside somehow enabled it to live in the human body, then they put different parts inside, like a bacteria payload, as part of their research. Looks like it has mutated on its own now.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jul 3, 2013 - 01:47pm PT
Another important thing is that there is a general medical consensus stating that a deer tick needs to have been feeding on you for 36 hours before it can transmit these diseases.

If you live in tick country, check yourself daily!!!

In addition to my friend, my grandma found a deer tick and bullseye rash on her a couple of weeks ago. She hasn't shown any symptoms of Lyme, and testing is inaccurate before 4-6 weeks of infection so we are playing the waiting game.
crusher

climber
Santa Monica, CA
Jul 3, 2013 - 04:29pm PT
There's an interesting article about Lyme (which I haven't finished reading yet so can't comment on) in The New Yorker, July 1st issue - here is a link (if this doesn't work go to their website and search "Lyme Disease"):

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/07/01/130701fa_fact_specter?currentPage=all

Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Jul 3, 2013 - 04:47pm PT
I began coming down with symptoms in the Fall summer of 2005...symptoms I thought pointed to Lyme.

I immediately started getting blood tests...all came up negative. No doctor had ANY answers for me.

In January of 2006, I began researching Lyme myself on the internet..the more I searched, the more I was absolutely convinced I had Lyme. My condition worsened. Later that winter, I told my wife..."I feel so miserable, I either need a diagnosis, or I need to die...I cannot go on like this."

In April of that year, I was back to my local Dr. for more bloodwork. Interestingly, they found some markers for a possible case of Rheumatoid Arthritis. I was referred to a specialist in Carson City. I was actually crushed when she told me, "You don't have RA." I mean, at that point I wanted SOME sort of diagnosis...to know what I was fighting....ANYTHING but NOT knowing!!!!!

I gave this RA Doc all of my findings from the Web searches, then literally BEGGED her to treat me for RA. After MUCH said begging, she relented, and agreed to put me on heavy oral antibiotics, then, if needed, onto IV antibiotics.

I began taking the drugs, then told my clients I was working for at the time that I was going to take some time off. I packed up my family and went to Ecuador for a month, all the while, bombing my system with the drugs.

By the time I returned from Ecuador, I was feeling nearly back to normal again....in another month, I was done with the drugs and felt great.

I estimated that I had Lyme for just over a year. I NEVER saw a tick bite (bulls eye rash) but had been to known tick/Lyme environments shortly starting to feel symptoms.

Clearly, a brutal disease to diagnose......Lynne...bless you, my dear. Thanks for sharing about Dan.....gone from us, but in the presence of the Lord.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jul 3, 2013 - 05:23pm PT
My daughter had lyme disease - contracted while we lived in CT. Back then, they wouldn't even test you unless you had the bullseye rash. After removing a tick and observing uncharacteristic lethargy, I jumped up and down, to no avail. She had intermittant joint swelling thereafter, and we could always come up with a possible cause. When her knee swelled up again and we had no logical events that could cause this, we say a pediatric arthritis specialist who asked me, "Could she have contracted Lyme disease?" I told him all about the tick from 3 years earlier and the Doctor insisting that testing was no warranted. We tested her and she was positive for Lyme. 3 whole years she was undiagnosed.

She is OK but has some compromise to health. We were lucky. I refuse to ever let someone talk me out of my intuition again.
LivingwithLyme

Social climber
Coatesville, Indiana
Jul 3, 2013 - 10:47pm PT
I have been living with lyme for 20+ years. The last year, I was incredibly sick. In fact, I almost died. I used to be a teacher, and so I have done much research in the way of lyme. I felt compelled to write as some misinformation was posted. All ticks (not just a deer tick) have the potential to carry lyme and other infections. Usually referred to as co-infections. There are more than four. To name a few: Bartonella, Rickettsia (Typhus fever) and (Rocky Mounted Spotted Fever), Babesia, ehrlichia, Q fever, relapsing fever, etc. Many people are uneducated about lyme and co-infections and will often say, "ticks here don't carry lyme." If you think of a tick as a "Nature's dirty needle" then you can understand as a tick feeds on different animals, picking up and transmitting from a vast range of hosts. Lyme disease has been found in every state.

Lyme is a spirochete bacteria. (Borrelia burgdorferi is the name of the spirochete for lyme, yet they are finding more and more strands.) A spirochete is shaped like a corkscrew, much like syphilis. This is significant because it is a stealthy bacteria that typically does not "hang out" in your blood but can invade pretty much anything in your body. Organs, bones, etc.

Most doctors do not have recognize lyme especially if you do not get the typical bulls eye rash.

If you have questions about lyme, one of the best sites out there is lymedisease.org There you can get doctor referrals for a lyme specialist.

Another good resource is Pamela Weintraub's book Cure Unknown. And you can always netflix the documentary Under Our Skin.

Be safe out there. Enjoying the outdoors is so important but so is being tick smart.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Jul 22, 2013 - 01:34am PT
Sorry it's taken so long to respond. I have limited access to internet.

Lyme disease is Nothing to mess around with. A climber here on ST did the right thing. He got bit by a tick and immediately went to a Lyme specialist and got the blood test within the prescribed time period.

You only have one life to life ...... treasure and protect it. Lynne
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2013 - 09:38pm PT
Ticks in our nose now. Titled "Scientist finds new species of tick in his nose"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/us-biologist-discovers-new-species-up-his-nose-after-research-trip-to-africa-8859600.html



Loomis

climber
Svět
Oct 7, 2013 - 10:53pm PT
All I can say is: Inspect yourself very well when coming out of area's known to contain these ticks.
Don't get this bacteria, it is no fun to deal with.

photo not found
Missing photo ID#151012
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Oct 8, 2013 - 12:39am PT
I've had Lyme four times; the most recent case being right now. Two of those times there was bull's eye rash; the other two times I had no initial symptoms whatsoever until the secondary symptoms occurred, probably several months, possibly as many as six, after the initial infection. The first of those two times, my secondary symptoms were increasingly severe muscle aches, which I ignored for a while, as I suspect any active person would. This time I experienced swelling and pain in both knees without any kind of event that would precipitate such a reaction.

Needless to say, I'm pretty careful. DEET and permithrin-treated clothes. And I seriously doubt the stories about ticks taking 24 or more hours to bite. By then I've done full-body tick checks and showered and scrubbed with a brush. In fact I know that time frame isn't true, because my wife has gone out into the garden for half an hour and come back with an embedded tick. More than once.

Ticks do not acquire the Lyme spirochete from deer. They get it from infected rodents, primarily white-taile mice here in Dutchess County. In a later stage of deveopment, when the ticks feed on deer, they either have or have not already been infected.

I'm "fortunate" to live in Dutchess County, which is one of the Lyme capitals of the universe, so virtually every internist is savvy about the disease and the substantial vagaries of testing for it.

...He got bit by a tick and immediately went to a Lyme specialist and got the blood test within the prescribed time period.

Sadly, getting the test too soon can lead to false negatives. The test is for Lyme antibodies, and these can take as much as several weeks to appear in sufficient concentrations in the bood to produce a positive test result. In any case, the tests are not very reliable, although their reliablility increases once the disease is disseminated. In Dutchess you get antibiotics for having the characteristic rash without any blood testing.
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Oct 8, 2013 - 01:56am PT
I got it in Sequoia last year. Doctor said if I wasn't back east I didn't have to worry, then I told her about other CA cases and showed her the red ring and she gave me antibiotics.

I have a friend from back east who tested negative and after 4 years and tens of thousands in doctor bills he was diagnosed with lyme disease so I figured better safe than sorry! Supposedly the test isn't very accurate and costs more than antibiotics so it was an easy choice.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Oct 8, 2013 - 03:59am PT
hey there say, ... first, big hug to lynne... :(

second... thank you all for sharing and lets' keep this
bumped from time time...

Loomis

climber
Svět
Oct 8, 2013 - 04:39am PT
Yeah, let's listen to Lynne... I see it more each day.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Oct 9, 2013 - 12:36am PT
So here it is. Dan's target bite. He showed it to numerous Dr.'s. When...
So here it is. Dan's target bite. He showed it to numerous Dr.'s. When it progressed to something he could no longer deal with by himself he kept a journal. I made a copy and had his attending physician include it in his chart right before he died.
Credit: LL LL

The mental and physical agony Dan suffered was intense. Dan tried (and succeeded) to carry on. I didn't realize til later how intense his challenges were. After Dan went to heaven my daughter, Amy, told me that Dan confided in her one day saying that if he had not been a rock climber he may not have been able to hang in there. The hard core challenges of the rock conditioned him to endure.

Lyme Disease is Nothing to mess around with. Find a qualified physician and deal with it immediately.
hobo_dan

Social climber
Minnesota
Oct 9, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
I had Lyme's this summer. I pulled a Deer Tick off and it was full of my blood--I waited a couple weeks and went to have the blood test--I began taking Doxycycline that day as I knew I would obsess about the possibilities. Anyway, I tested out positive and I knocked down 3 weeks of antibiotics. My only symptoms were some fatigue. But I was not going to mess with the Lyme thing. I caught it early and I feel normal-this is 3 months out
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Oct 9, 2013 - 08:41pm PT
It's a spirochete, related to Lyme. I had a client with Lyme who thinks that Lyme was a bio warfare project that escaped from Plum Island, just off the coast of Lyme CT. I forget the details but a spirochete has an inside and an outside part. The outside somehow enabled it to live in the human body, then they put different parts inside, like a bacteria payload, as part of their research. Looks like it has mutated on its own now.

I wonder if it's just that we have better detection technology but it sure seems like all of a sudden there are al these new diseases cropping up on a regular basis. Wassup with that?

Peace

Karl
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Jan 4, 2014 - 01:25pm PT
Oh boy...just re read this thread. Not home a couple days and I take hike up in SC Mtns. Next morning I wake up with a deer tick feasting on my neck. I knew it was a deer tick because I had brushed some off my dog....of course she is clean of bites because of Frontline.
I got most of it out, but it broke off. Off to Urgent Care with "help, can't get the rest of this ugly sucker out. Guess what???? They send me to the hospital ER because the urgent docs couldn't get it out it has burrowed so far in and they didn't have the right forceps to "extract the foreign body". ER got it out and I was immediately put on doxycycline. My neck and shoulder are very tender due to the digging. The tick was sent off to a lab to see if it tests positive for Lyme's disease. Hopefully not, or if so the doxy will have done its job.
Any others have any updates to what had already been posted. I'm squicked, of course. Washing all my bedding on "sanitize" setting, not once but twice!

Susan
bob

climber
Jan 4, 2014 - 04:55pm PT
I have chronic Lyme. Whooo hoooooooo! Anyways. I have had two deer ticks I pulled off while in the SC mountains and sent them in. Neither was infected. Just thought I'd throw that your way. (tests were two years ago)

Anyways, you're set because you nailed it immediately. Nice work!!!! Oh, and both the areas of my body that I pulled those ticks from hurt way more than other tick bites in my life. Hmmmmmmm not sure what's up with that.

Peace and best of luck!!!!!

Bob J.
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Jan 4, 2014 - 05:20pm PT
Very interesting Bob about the " hurt" part. I was barely awake and my hand kinda gravitated to my shoulder and brushed across my night shirt and immediately it hurt. I thought did I spring some sort of giant pimple or boil. When I got up and looked in the mirror I was astounded with the size of the area that was red and tender considering the tick didn't look that engorged...unlike dog ticks that get all balloony.
From the bite and the procedure I feel like I've been shot or stabbed in that shoulder.
I'm hoping my quick response and doxy will be the ticket.
And like a flame to moth...back on that trail today but without the dog who is really the culprit because she goes through the brush and I'm sure transferred to me.

Susan
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Jan 4, 2014 - 08:02pm PT
back on that trail today but without the dog who is really the culprit because she goes through the brush and I'm sure transferred to me.

Don't count on the dog theory.

Ticks find their way to humans without any trouble... I had two on me after mountain biking for a hour in Marin. Maybe I picked them up when I was walking or standing, but could have been a brush against a random branch while riding.
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Jan 4, 2014 - 08:58pm PT
^^^^^^yep, I think for the most part you are correct....however I had flicked several off of her so I'm tipping towards the little boogers seeing me as an easy mark or I flicked from her to me!
Gosh, Marin, I remember running the Dipsea over Mt Tam and basically being lousy with them at the finish. Luckily, no bites just a lot of whooshing them away.
Susan
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Jan 9, 2014 - 06:09pm PT
Tick confirmed as Western Black Legged Tick, the only tick species in Northern California to carry Lymes. Testing suggested it was not infected, however "tick received was desiccated, this may compromise testing"

Anyway, since I was immediately put on antibiotics I'm feeling pretty positive I've done all I can.

Susan
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Jan 9, 2014 - 06:35pm PT
Susan, just read this. OMG, prayers for you! Along with love and caring. Sounds like you're handling it well. Only other thing would be to go to Dr. Miguel A.Gonzales in Thousand Oaks who is a specialist in this area. He even has an office nurse dedicated to Lyme patients. Sometimes people go on IV Rocephin to treat problems. His number is 805-497-7508. He's also an athlete so he understands the need to be fit.

Love from Lynne
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Jan 9, 2014 - 06:54pm PT
Lynnie, thanks so much for the info. I know you went to hell and back with yours and Dan's journey through Lymes. Right now I'm feeling pretty confident I've done everything I can. If something comes up in the future I know immediately to get checked for Lymes since it was a vector tick.
Missing you...happy New Year and hopefully see you this spring when you return from Colorado. If we get to Ouray I'll contact you. We've been contemplating heading that way as we migrate north to Bozeman for ski season.

Susan
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Oct 7, 2014 - 06:26pm PT
I do not take this lightly and mean no disrespect,
I am touched with the grief and sorrow of
So much sadness and loss
Of the last few years
That I am numb.

Credit: Gnome Ofthe Diabase

My photo ID is the bull’s-eye! Well I can change that.
I have had lyme's and it was a crushing illness
Double vision, joints and old injuries swollen with pain
This most recent bite has only had the bulls-eye with swelling,
pain at the site, and hot to the touch. It has been much bigger, across half my back,
but no other symptoms. The mark was faded but visible; it lasted for two solid months.
The thing is I have also been bit by a Brown Recluse spider, that hurt just like this but was accompanied by flesh loss and an open blister wound.
I am very well aware of my 'bad' reactions to stings and bites.
This thing on my shoulder was nowhere near the pain and loss of lucidity, that came from a spider bite to my .... well... south of my pp those things that hang down, the four letter word fits so much better it’s… ...Balls.
I do not take this lightly and mean no disrespect,
I am touched with, sorrow and grief
So much sadness, loss and hart ache
Of the last few years
That I am numb.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Oct 7, 2014 - 08:23pm PT
Just want to send this bit of info. If it's changed Please let me know.

If you get bit by a tick carrying Lyme I believe you only have 24 to 48 hours to start antibiotic treatment. Screw the pills, if it happened to me I'd pay the bucks and jump to IV Rocephin. What is your life worth?

lynnie
couchmaster

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 20, 2014 - 05:55pm PT


Bump for Moosedrool.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Dec 21, 2014 - 06:34pm PT
Not a tic bite ... spider I was lucky the only symptoms were the stiffness pain and swelling.
Credit: Gnome Ofthe Diabase
couchmaster

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2016 - 02:19pm PT


Well, the ticks are out again now for sure. This article notes that the number infected has increased to 300,000 currently. I know a climber who claimed he was infected in Yosemite. Keep an eye out!



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3563844/Lyme-disease-ticking-time-bomb-Leading-expert-explains-life-wrecking-illness-spreading-protect-yourself.html

Radish

Trad climber
SeKi, California
Apr 28, 2016 - 03:00pm PT
Couldn't get the head damn it!!
Couldn't get the head damn it!!
Credit: Radish
I have heard of someone who got a deer tick up on the Marble Fork trail in SEKI and contracted Lyme disease just last year. This was their first ever hike in the park. The tick in the pic was from the Castle Rock Trail, lower approach....Notorious for all those kind of things!
And it was one of those little Black and Red deer ticks. No lyme though, I don't think.....
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 28, 2016 - 03:07pm PT
Still lots of headroom for new 'lyme' diseases...

Cross-Immunity and Community Structure of a Multiple-Strain Pathogen in the Tick Vector.

Borrelia genus...
Borrelia genus...
Credit: healyje
Timid TopRope

Social climber
the land of Pale Ale
Apr 28, 2016 - 04:53pm PT
Pulled a tiny little f*#ker that had attached on my arm this afternoon. Put him in the garbage disposal. Smallest one ever, likely deer tick. Just did a body check and changed clothes after getting home. One of the hazards of being a field tech.

Worst place to get them is in my scalp as no way to monitor for bullseye.
Crazy Bat

Sport climber
Birmingham, AL & Seweanee, TN
Apr 29, 2016 - 01:48pm PT
I have a friend who works for CDC. She got interested in ticks and started collecting them nearly five years ago, just hoping she could get funding for research. She had developed lyme after a tick bite with no bullseye rash. So domt count on that if you get a tick take the a tibiotics. Well informed doctors would rather givenyou the antibiotics than take the chance. I have contributed quite a few myself.

She never could get funding because she was in the wrong department, but a co worker did. She donated her collection of ticks to the cause, so they keep her informed of what they find in the ticks. It is a long and nasty laundry list.

One of the most interesting ones was car scratch fever. There have been several people who got it without having been exposed to cats or any of the other mammals known to carry it. They dont have enough numbers yet to say it came from ticks but they probably will soon.

I have gotten to the point I can sometimes feel those little buggers scratching around for purchase and some times find little red puncture marks near them. Shiver!
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 29, 2016 - 01:57pm PT
I would have used a razor blade to get the head out if I had to. I have had success with both the cover them with Vaseline and then wait 15 minutes and then grab the head with tweezers method, and just grabbing as close to the skin as possible with tweezers and gently tugging until it lets go. I haven't had that many, a handful over the years but I've never left a head in.

edit;

here comes Annabelle Nicholas Name, Lyme disease debunker extraordinaire
another nickname

Social climber
Yazoo Ms
Apr 29, 2016 - 02:59pm PT
More stupid, ill-informed fear-mongering about Lyme disease.

On a broad level it's analogous to the success of the dietary supplement industry. People imagine that it all means something, and has vaguely to do with "Science," when it really doesn't.

The vast majority, and possibly ALL cases of Lyme disease are completely resolved after a few weeks of very ordinary oral antibiotics. Often the symptoms are practically nil.

If your doctor tells you something else, then he or she may be a crank (of which there are a fair number).

If you believe you have some unique health condition, it's much more likely that you need psychological counseling.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Apr 29, 2016 - 04:07pm PT
The vast majority, and possibly ALL cases of Lyme disease are completely resolved after a few weeks of very ordinary oral antibiotics.

But only if diagnosed and treated, and there are many doctors who will refuse to prescribe that course of antibiotics if there hasn't been a bullseye rash.

TE
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Apr 29, 2016 - 04:09pm PT
another nickname, you are a troll and should be ignored. Not worth wasting anyone's breath on.
Radish

Trad climber
SeKi, California
Apr 29, 2016 - 04:35pm PT
Yea, I agree with Lynne!! I know somebody who got severally disabled from
Lyme!!
another nickname

Social climber
Yazoo Ms
Apr 30, 2016 - 08:33am PT
Regarding information in original post: "According to the study, only six Americans since 2012 have been infected. " (Scientific American, February 16, 2016.)

This is significant?

Assuming this "new disease" exists, its treatment isn't different from ordinary Lyme disease.

"If a tick is removed within the first 24 to 48 hours, it is unlikely to cause disease." (NYT, Feb. 16, 2016)

"Most patients recover when treated with a few weeks of antibiotics taken by mouth" (CDC)
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 30, 2016 - 08:38am PT
Between the ticks and the waterborne virus bacteria and protozoa that you carry you must be rather skeevy. What's next don't bother wiping?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 30, 2016 - 08:58am PT
Except a lot of us know multiple people whose lives have been severely impacted by lymes including the loss of friends and loved ones.

As far as what medically constitutes lymes as a disease and what microbiological agents are involved in that classification, those are two different matters altogether and as someone with at least a smattering of microbiology I say that we've only just begun to unravel that space. But that fact has no bearing on the severity of this condition or how many peoples' lives are being affected by it.

Any statements which can be construed as dismissive of the risks involved are entirely misguided, unproductive and unwelcome.
another nickname

Social climber
Yazoo Ms
Apr 30, 2016 - 09:35am PT
"Public-health officials say that a few weeks of antibiotic treatment will almost always wipe out the infection, and that relapses are rare. In this view, put forth in guidelines issued by the Infectious Diseases Society of America, Lyme is normally easy to treat and easy to cure." (New Yorker Magazine, 6/1/13)

"I was told by several Lyme activists that the government created the infection on Plum Island, that reporters at the Times have been “muzzled” and prevented from reporting honestly about Lyme, and that the N.I.H. has made a pact with pharmaceutical companies to ignore chronic Lyme. " (ibid.)
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 30, 2016 - 09:40am PT
Ah, another conspiracy nutjob.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 30, 2016 - 11:02am PT
Also which is it, it is not a real disease or it was created in a government Laboratory?
another nickname

Social climber
Yazoo Ms
Apr 30, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
"We report. You decide."
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 30, 2016 - 02:03pm PT
Well, journalism (reporting) is not a vacuum cleaner which just sucks up any old shite and then sprays it unexamined onto the Internet. There are many names for that, but 'journalism' and 'reporting' are not among them.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 30, 2016 - 02:50pm PT
Stoopid Americans think they're at the top of the food chain.

Deer ticks, mosquitoes and hanta virus eat people.

Stoopid American movie makes a big shark appear to be the ultimate threat to all mankind.

Wrong.

Stoopid Americans threatened more by little tiny sh#t they can't see, and can't comprehend.


Stoopid Americans ARE the food chain.



HOW TO SERVE MAN

overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 30, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
With fava beans and a nice Chianti
another nickname

Social climber
Yazoo Ms
Apr 30, 2016 - 03:38pm PT
Quoting the Fox News slogan in this context is intended as ironic.

Please note that the actual news quotes I've cited are from the New Yorker magazine, whose fact-checking department is legendary in the business, and from the NYT, which is also quite a stickler most of the time.

But yes, many less scrupulous news outlets thrive on "scare stories" and by hyping health threats like Lyme disease. People do eat it up. It seems you can't over-estimate the public's gullibility.
couchmaster

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2017 - 09:11am PT


On the subject of tinfoil hat conspiracy's and Lyme. The claim is that a strain was tested out on Texas Prison Inmates, and it was all fun and games till it started transferring over to the guards and then their family's. Old news I had not seen previously.

http://www.publichealthalert.org/mycoplasma---often-overlooked-in-chronic-lyme-disease.html

"Mycoplasma - Often Overlooked In Chronic Lyme Disease
June 1, 2009 in Science/Research by Scott Forsgren

Those of us with chronic Lyme disease are quite familiar with the names of the better known Lyme co-infections. Babesia, Bartonella, and Ehrlichia have become everyday words. As much as we would like to rid ourselves of these illness-producing pathogens, they have become a part of our daily struggle to regain a sense of health and wellness. Unfortunately, these are not the only co-infections seen in chronic Lyme disease. For some reason,Mycoplasma infections are not only lesser known by patients, but seemingly often overlooked by doctors as well. It is important for us, as patients, to educate ourselves on the topic of Mycoplasma and to ask our practitioners how we are being evaluated and treated for these infections.

In 1987, Dr. Garth Nicolson, PhD was a professor at the University of Texas at Houston when his wife, an instructor at Baylor College of Medicine, became seriously ill and nearly died. She was diagnosed with a Mycoplasma infection, treated, and later recovered. A few years later, their daughter, who had served in the Gulf War, returned from active duty quite ill. Not only was she sick, but the symptoms that she exhibited were very similar to those that Dr. Nicolson's wife had expressed years earlier.

At that point, Dr. Nicolson had the idea that his daughter's illness could be the result of an infection and started to investigate his theory further. As his work progressed, he looked at Brucella, Borrelia, Ehrlichia, and other chronic intracellular infections that have the potential to cause illness and present with overlapping signs and symptoms. In Gulf War veterans that were being evaluated, approximately 45% of those that were ill had Mycoplasma infection. It was found that the infection was a particular type of Mycoplasma, namely a peculiar species called Mycoplasma fermentans.

Very little was known about this particular species of Mycoplasma at the time except that the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology and the Army had been doing research on the organism. Once this likely causative agent of Gulf War Illness (GWI) had been identified in about one-half of the GWI cases, Dr. Nicolson recommended that the Mycoplasma-infected Gulf War veterans be treated with Doxycycline. He then found himself the target of vicious attacks for making the connection between the illness and M. fermentans. Dr. Nicolson shared that "even talking about this organism was highly discouraged." In fact, until the Gulf War, the military's own medical school had been teaching about the dangers of M. fermentans for years.

Background

Just years earlier in Texas, prisons emerged in which many of the inmates and guards came down with neurodegenerative conditions at rates that were far from ordinary. In Huntsville, where three large State prisons are found, there were about 70 cases of ALS, numerous cases of Multiple Sclerosis, and highly unexpected numbers of Rheumatoid Arthritis cases. At that time, the term "Mystery Disease" was used to identify the unusual illnesses that so many seemed to have acquired.

Dr. Nicolson started testing prison guards and their family members and found that very high numbers of these people were testing positive for Mycoplasma fermentans. Furthermore, this appeared to be a weaponized version of the organism called M. fermentans incognitus, a specific strain of Mycoplasma that had been altered to cause more severe symptoms, to be more virulent, and to be more survivable than the naturally occurring M. fermentans. Dr. Nicolson believed that biological weapons experiments had been carried out on inmates in the Texas prison system for years in which humans had been used as guinea pigs.

As time progressed, these illnesses did not remain confined to the prisoners. Soon after the prisoners unknowingly became a part in these experiments, the prison guards became ill. Their illnesses gradually became those of their families. It was not long before these Mycoplasma-based illnesses became a broader part of the surrounding Huntsville, Texas landscape.

The Texas prisoners that came down with Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS) later died. In the state of Texas, at the time, the state law dictated that all prisoners that died were later to be autopsied at University of Texas at Galveston. However, that was not what was happening to the prisoners who had died as a result of this horrific experimentation, according to Dr. Nicolson. Through one of his former students who at the time was responsible for the autopsy service at UT Galveston, Dr. Nicolson learned that none of the bodies had been sent there. Dr. Nicolson had discovered that at least six private autopsies a week were being performed on deceased prisoners at a US Army base. The bodies were then sent to a private crematory at a secret location in central Texas. Additionally, prisoner records were destroyed. All of this, according to Dr. Nicolson, violated state law.

Though much of the evidence of this experimentation had been destroyed, a document was found in the basement of an Austin building that was viewed as the "smoking gun". The document indicated that the Texas Prison Board, Baylor College of Medicine, and the Department of Defense were all a part of the experiments involving the Texas prisoners - experiments that later resulted in the death of many of the inmates. According to Dr. Nicolson, some of the experiments used Mycoplasma while others utilized various "cocktails of microbial agents" such asMycoplasma, Brucella, and DNA viruses such as Parvovirus B19. This project later became the topic of a book by Dr. Nicolson entitled Project Day Lily.

Dr. Nicolson believes that Mycoplasma fermentans is a naturally occurring microbe. However, some of the strains that exist today have been weaponized. Dr. Nicolson's research found unusual genes in M. fermentans incognitus that were consistent with a weaponized form of the organism. Weaponzing of an organism is done in an attempt to make a germ more pathogenic, immunosuppressive, resistant to heat and dryness, and to increase its survival rate such that the germ could be used in various types of weapons. Genes which were part of the HIV-1 envelope gene were found in these Mycoplasma. This means that the infection may not give someone HIV, but that it may result in some of the debilitating symptoms of the HIV disease. Indicators of a weaponized organism were evident in the prison guards in Huntsville as well as in military personnel that were likely exposed to the infections both through military vaccinations as well as through weapons used in the Gulf War.

The unfortunate reality according to Dr. Nicolson is that "once these things get out, you can't put the genie back in the bottle". Once these germs have been released, they are airborne infections that slowly penetrate into the population. In the case of Mycoplasma fermentans, Dr. Nicolson believes that this is exactly what happened. It may be this weaponized form of Mycoplasma that has led to the significant increases in neurodegenerative and autoimmune diseases over the last several years. Those patients with weaponized strains of these organisms are generally very sick. They may experience 60-75 signs and symptoms and are even at risk of their diseases becoming fatal.

In looking at the source of infection in the Gulf War veterans who were contracting Mycoplasma, Dr. Nicolson suggests that vaccinations appear to be the most likely mechanism through which the veterans became infected. Many military personnel that later became ill were far from the battlefields or had received the vaccinations and were never deployed. However, biological weapons sprayers were known to have been deployed by the Iraqis in the Gulf War and were used to spray the sand in Iraq and Kuwait. Gerald Schumacher, a Special Forces colonel in charge of biological weapons detection, blew the whistle on this after he retired. During the Gulf War, his group was not allowed to deploy their biological weapons detectors which led to reports that no such weapons were detected or used.

The Iraqis received a great deal of assistance on biological warfare from the United States during the Iran-Iraq Conflict. Both chemical and biologic weapons were given to them from the United States. After the Gulf War, rather than taking inventory of these weapons, they were blown up. Dr. Nicolson indicates that some of his patients have taken videos standing next to crates with Hazardous Materials tags from the United States. In the same videos, the crates are opened and weapons are clearly striped as having originated from the United States and being both chemical and biological weapons.

There were clear indicators that Iraq had offensive weapons in their arsenal. In Kuwait, many people had become quite ill. It was estimated that 25% of the population after the Gulf War had signs and symptoms which matched the symptoms of those infected with weaponized Mycoplasma. There were also a number of other chemical exposures and thus, there was never a clear indicator as to whether or not the Iraqi illnesses were caused by biologic or chemical agents.

When asking Dr. Nicolson how much he personally has been harassed for bringing much of this information to light, he shared that it has been "a horrific time". After Dr. Nicolson exposed the Huntsville prison experiments, the University of Texas educational system attempted to fire him from his tenured and highly respected position. Dr. Nicolson shared that a tremendous amount of pressure was put on the University of Texas system to "shut him up and close his laboratory". He was threatened on an almost daily basis with closing his lab as he continued to do his research on Mycoplasma. This became a major subject in the book Project Day Lily. Fortunately, for many of us struggling with chronic illnesses, Dr. Nicolson's experience and knowledge continue to be a benefit in that we understand so much more than we otherwise would about this formidable foe called Mycoplasma.

Symptoms

The signs and symptoms of Mycoplasma infection are highly variable and thus it is not uncommon for a diagnosis to be entirely missed. A partial list of symptoms includes chronic fatigue, joint pain, intermittent fevers, headaches, coughing, nausea, gastrointestinal problems, diarrhea, visual disturbances, memory loss, sleep disturbances, skin rashes, joint stiffness, depression, irritability, congestion, night sweats, loss of concentration, muscle spasms, nervousness, anxiety, chest pain, breathing irregularities, balance problems, light sensitivity, hair loss, problems with urination, congestive heart failure, blood pressure abnormalities, lymph node pain, chemical sensitivities, persistent coughing, eye pain, floaters in the eyes, and many others. On Dr. Nicolson's web site at http://www.immed.org, a full list of signs and symptoms and an illness survey form can be found.

It doesn't take long to see that the symptoms of Mycoplasma infections are very similar to the symptoms of Borrelia infections in chronic Lyme disease. Dr. Nicolson has looked at some of the more common neurodegenerative diseases and the infections that are associated with each. Mycoplasma is commonly found in patients with ALS, Multiple Sclerosis, Autism, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Chronic Asthma, Lyme disease, and many other chronic disease conditions.


Characteristics

Mycoplasma are pleomorphic bacteria which lack a cell wall and, as a result, many antibiotics are not effective against this type of bacteria. There are over 100 known species of Mycoplasma, but only a half dozen or so are known to be pathogenic in humans. The pathogenic species are intracellular and must enter cells to survive. Once they are inside the cells, they are not recognized by the immune system and it is difficult to mount an effective response.

They stimulate reactive-oxygen species (ROS) which damage cell membranes. They release toxins into the body. Infected cells can be stimulated to undergo programmed cell death which may result in ALS or other severe neurological presentations. 90% of ALS patients evaluated were found to have Mycoplasma infections, whereasMycoplasma was found in 100% of ALS patients with Gulf War Syndrome, almost all of which were weaponizedM. fermentans incognitus.

They are thought of as "borderline anaerobes", meaning that they generally prefer low oxygen environments. Dr. Nicolson has found that airline employees are much more susceptible to these types of infections and that symptoms worsen with frequent long flights at low oxygen tension. Mycoplasma also have some characteristics of viruses.

Mycoplasma tend to be slow growing infections and they are usually transmitted slowly. Dr. Nicolson states that "Mycoplasma can be sexually transmitted, but the infection is usually passed through far less intimate contact.Mycoplasma can be obtained through fluid exchange, and it is easily transmitted through the air." In Gulf War veterans, the first person besides the veteran to become ill was the spouse and, later, other members of the household also became ill. Not everyone is equally susceptible to Mycoplasma infections, especially those with strong immune systems who can resist infection.

As already discussed, Mycoplasma fermentans produces numerous symptoms. Those infected are rarely found to be asymptomatic. In North America, M. pneumoniae is the most common Mycoplasma seen in various diseases. In Europe, M. hominis is far more prevalent and the incidence of M. fermentans is much lower than in North America.

The potential genetic factors involved in Mycoplasma illnesses are not known. Those with immune deficiencies and other illnesses, such as cancers and degenerative diseases, are at far greater risk of infection.

Prevalence

In one study looking at Mycoplasma in patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Dr. Nicolson has observed some interesting patterns in his research. Generally, the majority of CFS patients have Mycoplasma infections. However, CFS patients infected with Borrelia burgdorferi, the punitive agent in Lyme disease, had an even higher overallMycoplasma infection rate. As many as 75% of Lyme disease patients appear to have Mycoplasma infections, and yet Mycoplasma is often overlooked in the diagnosis and treatment of chronic Lyme disease, neurodegenerative diseases, and many other chronic illnesses lacking clear origins.

Even more startling was the finding that of the patients infected with Borrelia, over 50% of the patients had the M. fermentans infection. Approximately 23% carried M. pneumoniae. Chronic Fatigue patients that did not test positive for Borrelia had much more of a mixture of various species ofMycoplasma. Only 28% of the group not co-infected with Lyme disease had the M. fermentans infection. In normal, healthy controls, only 1.7% were found to have M. fermentans and at a total Mycoplasma infection rate of 5% compared to the 75% group mentioned earlier.

Dr. Nicolson notes that these findings are consistent with the fact that it is the Mycoplasma fermentans species that is more often isolated in ticks collected from the environment. The same tick that serves as the vector for Borrelia burgdorferi often also transmits M. fermentans simultaneously. Once a patient is multiply co-infected, the duration and severity of their illness both increase.

In his experience, Dr. Nicolson has found that Mycoplasma is the number one Lyme coinfection. The rate of infection with Mycoplasma in patients with Lyme disease surpasses that of Bartonella (25-40%) slightly and that ofBabesia (8-20%) significantly.

According to Dr. Nicolson, a healthy immune system can generally clear M. pneumoniae infections though will have a harder time eradicating M. fermentans on its own. Healthy people can often hold these infections in check - essentially having the infection but not expressing symptoms.

Testing

Dr. Nicolson noted that Mycoplasma infections in chronic Lyme disease are often overlooked by most doctors because they simply don't test for it. He states that those that do test for it find a much higher number of infected patients. Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD in New York finds a high incidence of M. fermentans, according to Dr. Nicolson.

Sadly, however, even if patients are tested for Mycoplasma, a similar problem exists here as the one that almost all Lyme doctors and patients are aware of - namely that reliable tests do not exist. Dr. Nicolson notes that once a laboratory gets a reliable test in place, the laboratory is often shutdown. There are only a few labs left that test forMycoplasma as a result.
In testing ticks for various microbial species, Dr. Nicolson has found a very high incidence of Mycoplasma fermentans. However, other Mycoplasma species have also been found such as M. pneumoniae and M. hominis. The incidence of these other species is far lower. "Far and away", it is the M. fermentans species that is seen in ticks, and this probably reflects the high incidence of M. fermentans coinfections in Lyme disease.

In terms of laboratory testing, Dr. Nicolson generally recommends Viral Immune Pathology, formerly known as RedLabs. He has found that the usefulness of any given lab in testing for Mycoplasma changes regularly. In the past, Dr. Nicolson used Medical Diagnostic Laboratories (MDL) for testing, but later he and other physicians found that the testing was no longer reliable. As a result, he no longer recommends MDL.

Dr. Nicolson finds that laboratories testing for Mycoplasma are highly scrutinized by federal agencies and that may affect the way the labs test and report this type of infection.

Autoimmunity

Thomas McPherson Brown, MD studied Mycoplasma at the Rockefeller Institute just before World War II. He was able to isolate bacteria from the joint fluid of a person with autoimmune arthritis and believed that the infection could have been the trigger for her disease. At the time, the organisms were too small to identify precisely, but it was later determined to be Mycoplasma.

Even then, Dr. Brown believed that Mycoplasma was very common and not easy to eradicate. He suggested using tetracycline drugs as an effective treatment for the disease. He later found that Doxycycline and Minocycline were effective at dealing with Mycoplasma. Though he garnered praise from his patients, he was generally regarded by the medical community as misguided and a trouble-maker. He died in 1989 prior to being fully vindicated. Fortunately, his work was validated through an NIH-sponsored study called MIRA or "Minocycline in Rheumatoid Arthritis".

Due to many of the characteristics of Mycoplasma, they may be responsible for the triggering of numerous autoimmune responses. As Mycoplasma replicate within cells and are eventually released, they capture antigens from the surface of the host cell and incorporate these antigens into their own membranes. This makes it almost impossible for the body to tell the difference between good and bad, between human and microbe, or between us and them. As a result, the immune system may begin to respond to these antigens now incorporated into the cell walls of the bacteria and create a condition of self-attack, or autoimmunity.

The microorganisms can produce mimicry antigens that mimic the natural host surface antigens and trigger an immune response to these antigens which may also result in autoimmune conditions through cross-reactivity. Additionally, Mycoplasma may cause cell death of host cells through a process known as apoptosis or programmed cell death.

Treatment

Though various strains of Mycoplasma have their own unique characteristics and drug responses, treatment tends to be quite similar. The variations in the strains do not appear to be a factor in a successful treatment response.

Dr. Nicolson suggests that in-vitro differences have been found but that it is not possible to easily extrapolate these findings to an in-vivo environment. Various factors including drug targeting, drug clearance, and the ability for the drug to cross into various body compartments are important considerations in treatment that cannot be examined in-vitro. Dr. Nicolson believes that, like many other coinfections of Lyme disease, Mycoplasma cannot be fully eradicated, but that once infected, treatment becomes an ongoing "management approach". He notes that this is a commonly understood fact and that the same is true of other organisms such as Chlamydia and Borrelia. Mycoplasma have the ability to go into a quiescent phase in intracellular locations within the body. Once in these locations, neither antibiotics nor the immune system can effectively reach or kill the organisms. Many people recover from Mycoplasma infections and are fine for years. They may later have an incident involving severe trauma or other significant life stressor and symptoms fully reappear within weeks to months.

Dr. Nicolson recommends that the physician adopt an initial 6-month course of treatment with no break followed by several 6-week on, 2-week off antibiotic cycles. Candidate antibiotics include: Doxycycline, Ciprofloxacin (Cipro), Azithromycin (Zithromax), Minocycline, or Clarithromycin (Biaxin). He notes that antibiotic combinations may be required if there is a limited response to single drug, and most patients require switching antibiotics at least once during their treatment. Some patients may find the addition of Flagyl to be a benefit to treatment.

In Gulf War patients, once effectively treated, the majority of patients recovered. For civilians, six months is the minimum recommended treatment length, and some patients require much longer treatment in order to recover.Given that Mycoplasma have some characteristics of viruses, some physicians have suggested that Famvir or Ganciclovir may be added to the antibiotic therapy.

Herxheimer reactions do occur when treating Mycoplasma infections. To minimize this die-off effect where the patient generally feels much worse while on treatment, Dr. Nicolson advises using 50mg oral Benadryl taken 30 minutes before the antibiotics. He also finds that a strained blend of 1 whole lemon, 1 cup fruit juice, and 1 tablespoon of olive oil can be helpful. Though Dr. Nicolson believes that antibiotics are the most effective approach to treating Mycoplasma infections, he has found some good natural options. In terms of natural approaches to treating Mycoplasma, Raintree Nutrition (http://www.rain-tree.com); has created several products that may be quite helpful for patients. These include Raintree Myco, Raintree A-F, and Raintree Immune Support.

Dr. Nicolson has seen evidence that Mycoplasma-specific transfer factors such as those from Chisholm Labs and others can be beneficial in some patients. He says that many natural options help in some patients, but that his experience has been that the antibiotic treatment results in the best outcomes. In many, recovery requires a push and pull between conventional and alternative treatments.

One of the hallmark signs of Mycoplasma infection is fatigue. The infections lead to oxidation in the body that leads to damage of the cell membranes. Oxidation accelerates the damage to the lipids in cell membranes which impacts mitochondrial function. This leads to less energy in the cell and ultimately to a fatiguing of the larger organism due to the fact that there is less energy to support necessary cellular functions. In patients where fatigue is due to cell membrane damage, Dr. Nicolson has found NT Factor® to be highly beneficial. NT Factor® replaces the damaged lipids and helps to restore mitochondrial function. Often, fatigue then resolves or is reduced.

Dr. Nicolson has found that oxidative therapies such as ozone can be helpful in the fight against Mycoplasma. However, he notes that this is generally palliative and does not produce the same results as the antibiotic therapy in the long-term. He finds that the oxidative therapies "are generally more cytostatic than cytotoxic". Hyperbaric oxygen may be helpful but similarly does not appear to be a highly effective treatment in the longer-term.

In other countries, IV drips with H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) have been used with some benefit, but Dr. Nicolson notes that these therapies, while potentially effective, are highly dangerous and not advised.

In the realm of frequency medicine and Rife therapy, Dr. Nicolson believes that the frequencies that could be used to address Mycoplasma are too similar to normal cellular frequencies. Thus, he is not certain that Rife therapy is an effective way to approach the problem.

In the nutritional realm, Dr. Nicolson finds that many patients with chronic infections are immunosuppressed and that proper nutrition is vital. He cautions against smoking and drinking. He suggests avoidance of sugars, trans-fats, and allergenic foods. He advises patients to increase their fruits, vegetables, and whole grains. Some dietary winners in supporting the immune system include cruciferous vegetables, soluble fiber-based foods such as prunes and bran, wheat germ, yogurt, fish, and whole grains.

Patients are often depleted in key vitamins and minerals. Supplementation with B-Complex, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, and CoQ-10 are often beneficial. Minerals are often necessary. Dr. Nicolson notes, however, that many people have poor absorption and may require sublingual or injectable forms of these nutrients. Amino acids, flax seed, and fish oils can provide additional support, but the best nutrition for cell membranes is NT Factor®.

Many patients with chronic illnesses have a toxic body burden of heavy metals such as mercury, lead, cadmium, and aluminum. Hair, stool, and urine testing is available through labs like Doctor's Data (http://www.doctorsdata.com); and Genova Diagnostics (http://www.gdx.net);. Dr. Nicolson has seen reports of positive results with EDTA chelation suppositories from Detoxamin (http://www.detoxamin.com); and oral chelators from Longevity Plus (www.longevityplus.com).

For patients using antibiotics, beneficial gut flora is often depressed. Supplementation with a high quality probiotic is important, but probiotics have to be taken two hours or longer after taking antibiotics. Natural immune support can be helpful in the form of whey proteins, transfer factors, or immune-support products such as Beyond Immuni-T from Longevity Plus.

Biolfims

Dr. Nicolson believes that biofilms are a factor in successfully treating Mycoplasma infections. In cases that are refractory to antibiotics, biofilms are likely a major factor. In men with chronic refractory prostatitis which is infection-based, one often cannot be treated effectively with antibiotics. However, when Detoxamin (EDTA) or other agents to address the biofilms are used, it then becomes possible to treat these infections with tetracyclines. Patients quickly show functional increases and decreases in pain other symptoms.

Summary

In chronic Lyme disease, it is often difficult to know which infections are actually responsible for the persistence of illness. However, in general terms, chronic intracellular infections that change the metabolism of cells and suppress mitochondrial and other functions will lead to patients remaining in a chronically ill state. Dr. Nicolson believes that these infections must be aggressively treated. "Similar to chronic Lyme disease, the current CDC or IDSA recommendations for short-term treatment of chronic infections are simply inadequate," he says.

Dr. Nicolson has found that there is a hierarchy of symptoms that resolve relatively quickly and those that resolve more slowly when treating Mycoplasma. Gut-associated phenomenon such as Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) often resolve quickly. Other systemic signs and symptoms can resolve in an intermediate period of time from many weeks to many months. Symptoms associated with the central and peripheral nervous systems such as neuropathy and pain often resolve much more slowly. Skin sensitivity and burning sensations may take much longer to resolve. Mycoplasma infections do invade nerves, and nerve-related symptoms are among the more difficult to resolve.

Dr. Nicolson states "We keep seeing the suppression of information on Mycoplasma and similar intracellular bacterial infections. The world of Mycoplasma parallels the world of chronic Lyme disease in terms of the politics involved. Physicians are being persecuted by their medical boards as a result of bad information. It is important for us to do everything within our power to get rid of harmful, erroneous information about these diseases. Both Mycoplasma and Borrelia have been manipulated for biological weapons purposes and as a result, both are politically incorrect to discuss, work on, or do anything about. Until this changes, we won't see any real progress."
couchmaster

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2017 - 09:16am PT

It's widespread knowledge that the US Army spends a huge amount of money and resources looking into pathogens, virus's and such as a weapon and testing these things out. Ostensibly to protect us against the other side doing it to us. This story doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jan 27, 2017 - 01:00pm PT
unfortunately Couchmaster, its probably just the tip of the iceberg..
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Aug 27, 2017 - 09:04am PT


Dear Fellow Climbers,

It came to mind that I need to share something with you all.

I had been regularity going climbing, trying to complete a climb called Survival of The Fittest in Lost City for a few years now, perhaps you know the climb? The history with that is I gradually progressed until I pulled a muscle and had to take a break for a while. Then something happened to my left shoulder, and I needed to take a long break again. In order to get up it I really need to exercise every other day (and never every day), and if I do not warm up or if my cartilage is not being conditioned progressively along at the same pace as my muscles then I blow out a joint and need to start over again. It is an exact science. These last few months I had a problem trying to motivate myself to do pull ups on a regular basis, and do those regular workouts. Every other day I need to spend a lot of time trying to get up past a level that would bring me to the top of the climb, climbing or exercising twice a week would lead to a plateau quickly. And breaking the different plateaus later I would encounter was always very dangerous because if I was not carful and did not warm up for 1/2 hour I could get an injury. I suppose it would have helped if I had gone to see holistic doctor. But I had reached a point where I knew what to do, it was just implementing in now that I had a problem doing. Perhaps my dopamine levels were low.

Much time previously I had worn out my hip joint, but I was able to grow that back by taking a rest in a lazyboy for almost a year and thereafter using crutches for another year or so, and having to drive laying down, that was all back starting in 2010

Now let me tell you all, almost every time I go climbing I find a tick. But there was one time where I did check not carefully enough and I discovered it starting in my back at 2:00 PM. I do not understand why I had become so less vigilant about checking for ticks, to check over and over, why did I assume I could relax that?, I should have given my own protocol more respect. I was very tired, annoyed, frustrated, and just went to bed on this one night. It's funny that I can remember it so clearly but I could not remember to check 3 times for ticks? I had let my guard down this one time, but I did not give it much thought since it was only on me for 2 hours. I took the tick and put it in a plastic bag inside my clam lid Mason jar I use for ticks, I have a hell of a lot of ticks in there! Whatever it was, I was involved in some very stupid idiotic ways of thinking. I was not paying enough attention to my surroundings. I did not stop myself and say, "I need to really stop what I am doing and consider why checking for ticks is important", why have I have I not done this again? If I had taken a shower before I went to bed that would have been the cure, but I was too tired, I just threw myself into bed concerned about other seemingly more important things.

Around 3 or 4 weeks later I had been in the woods with a hell of a lot of annoying gnats spiders and bugs, and I assumed I had a spider bite. I went to the Gunks, late of course as what was kind of typical for these days, and had no drive to do anything which was worse. I talked to some climbers I knew, Jim Munson and Frank. It had suddenly it occurred to me, holy sh#t perhaps this not a spider bite from a few days ago, it could be from that tick bite from a few weeks ago! Calling around on the phone got me nowhere, eventually I found my only alternative was a walk in clinic. But I still needed more answers about the antibiotics vs the holistic approaches and what is going on with that.

After a day or so I came to the conclusion that I had found the right answers, enough in order to know how to proceed.

The antibiotics are failing these days, there are new strains of the diseases that are resistant, so to me in seemed logical to cross those off the list sinse that would only give me setbacks with the phony artificial immune system.

So, first of all it needs to be studied so it can be understood that Microwaves from your phone and where you live give lyme the weakness it needs to gain a permanent foot hold. You have get out of the microwaves which run at a very specific wave among many that could be used, which in fact are perfect for interfering with your body's ability to realize it is night time and for your immune system to then work correctly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln2Xq8fCNI8

And in this way we now have a lyme epidemic. And also the waves cause calmative damage as well. And by the way, when you are in a car the phone runs off the wave chart to get thorough your car to the towers, putting it on speaker phone there does nothing.

You have to find places where there could be mold and remove yourself or the mold. I found some outside my window in the wood chipps around the pool and under some tool boxes.

The aluminum we breathe that comes out of the chemtrials talked about in the United Nations (it is no longer a theory) helps re-direct the spirochetes to places where they would otherwise not go to ... or something like that. Anyway the aluminum makes it worse, go get yours out.

You have to HAVE TO listen to the Dr Dietrich Klinghardt MD PhD videos on youtube to understand what I am talking about.

Now I realize that some of you guys will argue before unbiased watching Dr Dietrich Klinghardt. Let me say now that when you do that that means that you (not me) are stupid. And like, I really need to explain why one needs to read or watch something in order to comment on it is pathetic, that eliminates you from being able to give an opinion. I feel like adding some more insults here in preparation for these kinds of fool-trolls, but I will reserve it for later. But let me just say that if you assume you know enough already without reading more, you are probably a doctor or some other kind of idiot who is unteachable because you can only regurgitate information like a parrot and have been brain washed to realize you have no business thinking.

So there you have it. Over all I look at this as a new opportunity and adventure, as I suspect that the reason why I had lost the beautiful clarity I had in my 20's as I walked through nature and my now persistent dullness, my hip, knee, back, and neck problems in the past over the last 30 years may had had to do with lyme anyway. We shall see. I think I already had some kind of spirokete problem that I was combating. So this may be an opportunity to once and for all make some progress. Perhaps some people will learn not to use the cell phone all day, which is makes sperm stupid (proven fact) and some good things will come out of all this, good thing the Dr. Rawls protocol and pills that just arrived for $250.

In the mean time I have pressure in my head from my immune system working, a slight temperature, and my 2" bulls eye is going all over the place, it is no longer a bulls eye but a big red spot, and there are now two other spots. It is interesting had these doctors really have not developed a way to see you immediately, I need to wait here like an idiot.

I am not sure I wrote everything correct here, so when I read it again for the 10th time I might find a way to change it.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d9/Georgia_Guidestones-lowres.jpg

http://redefininggod.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/ggcube.jpg



A one hour and thirty minute 1:35:01 youtube lecture by Dr. Klinghardt. Here is a sample:

Dr. Mercola Interviews Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt about Lyme Disease

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkXqxRfG0jk

00:00 Well welcome everyone today we are honored to have with us Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt who I've known for many years. Actually, one of my earliest mentors and help me understand some of the foundations of natural health and how one can apply it to facilitate and accelerate healing. And I would have to first start off first start off the interview with a warning though. That if you become a fan of Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt the key thing is to know is that things will change. So he is always on the leading edge. I am always amazed when I come bank to him how much more he has learned. When you think you have learned it all you find out there is a magnitude more to learn. That is what he is going to enlighten us on today. And an important topic which is Lyme disease. Even some experts belive that everyone has been exposed to Lyme disease and may have it in some way shape form or another. But clearly there are those who have it who are severely disabled and crippled and Dr. Klinghardt has actually suffered with this himself, so as a result of this he had a personal passion, and really has been on the journey he is going to share with us and really tell us how he has evolved in treatments and strategies and protocols and what he has learned from decades, many decades of clinical experience that has been found to be effective. So welcome back Dr. Klinghardt. Thank you Joe, it is good seeing you again. Yes indeed, likewise. So um we are here today to talk about the Lyme disease. So why don't you start because your just a phenomenal lecturer. You one of the comments I failed to mention, when you do attend one of your lectures, it just seems like you can go, I don't know if anyone is more skilled to go on and on for hours and hours and hours without notes or power points, you're just a wealth of knowledge, its just shocking, so lets start where ever you feel is appropriate and I will dialog and interject with some questions as we go along. The issue with Lyme disease, the only thing that is new with Lyme disease is that many of us have realized that pretty much all chronic illnesses in one way or another way the outcome of chronic infection or at least contributed to by chronic infection. Even 15 years ago most of us thought that chronic illnesses are the outcome of toxicity of environmental toxicity and everything related to that. But we got a little wiser and realized that the issues go far deeper. And what has been astounding to us when we look at illnesses that are well established in the conventional medical field, like Parkinson, Multiple Scorsese or chronic fatigue all turning out to be chronic infections with this particular expression of it. And, right at the center of that it is really the discovery of Lyme disease and when I say Lyme disease I like to use the definition of the new Lyme disease, that means it is a new illness transferred by insect but please hear me here, we are not calling it anymore tick born disease because we know that mosquitoes can carry Lyme disease and many other serious infections. Um, and we know that spiders, flees, mites, can carry these illnesses. So to limit it to tick born disease as it was until recently has been too narrow a focus. And I like to take a big look at this whole thing. In modern genetics when we break down our genome we find entire long sequences in there that come out of the insect kingdom, that come out of the bacteria kingdom, the virus kingdom, that have actually become part of the human genome. What that basically means is that we are discovering a new theory of evolution. That these chronic infections were always an attempt of evolution to mingle with our genes, expand them to change them and once and a while something good comes out of it. ......skipping ahead to the dirty smoke radiation ... 33:50 And so we suspect that these creatures have been with us for a very long time. And what really has changed is change in external factors, that is the toxicity in us, in the air and in the food and the amalgam fillings, root canals the food residues, all the things you talk about in your website, the vaccines. There is one big aspect and one we know for sure because the research on it, the electro smoke, the ambient _ in the house the growth the _ of the microbe lives naturally in us and we know that the amount of microwave exposure from the cell phone radiation is near doubling now every two years. The amount to the expose is doubling in near catastrophic amounts. Where one of my primary treatments for Lyme disease is to get into treatment is to get into protective clothing that shields them from incoming microwaves, which shields the bedside, we turn off the wireless internet at home, we put shielding paint on the houses, and that has been a more successful strategy in treating Lyme disease and to get people neurologically well then any of the antibiotics and any of the microbial compounds, that has been more successful then every single strategy. And so I know it is wrong for us to overly emphasize on the microbe. We need to know what is driving the microbe. They were historically happily living with us symbiotically, they may have always caused mild damage, we do not know, or a premature aging, we do not know for sure. But this virulence that is appearing now is a new phenomenon and it could only be explained with two things, 1.) A mutation of the spirochete or one of the yet invisible co-infections or opportunistic infections FD Pfizer suspects protozoa infections ... we do not know for sure. But we know for sure that the exposure to the electrostatic fields that we are undergoing right now is insane it's driving the growth of the . Several Russian resources on that have shown that. Well thank you for that explanation, and it sounds like from your prospective that one of the most important things you can do, and it makes sense, and clearly the world is coming, the scientific community through the new publications research is validating the position we have held for many years, decades, that the exposure to these electrostatic fields are particularly harmful and they are causing serious problems down the road, many of which we are not seeing, I mean you certainly witnessing some of them now with the individuals who are struggling now with the Lyme disease, but there are millions, tens of millions, maybe even more who similarity to many smokers now who with a chronic exposure to smoke and come with cancers down the road 10 20 30 years later. So I thank you for that perspective and ....37:28
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Sep 1, 2017 - 05:21am PT
I am feeling good enough to go climbing but I have a stuffy head. My brain feels like it has peanut butter all over it. I am selling my house and Toyota tacoma, too much wifi in those.

Update: "I am selling my house". Not sure why I wrote that, I got no house to sell, makes no sense.
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Sep 3, 2017 - 06:11am PT
No sure why no one is saying much. Anyway my brain no longer feels clogged with water, like I was underwater. Now I just have a headache. My personality has changed and I have become a lizard from the day the bulls eye appeared. That has not changed, I still have a lizard brain, I have no emotions and have a very short temper.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 3, 2017 - 10:19am PT
Persistent Lyme is very real, however so are 1000 other different afflictions that it mimics. So it's essential to find a lyme-literate neurologist and get a full workup done.

Unfortunately this is going to cost you some big $$$ as most of these Dr's don't deal with insurance since persistent Lyme goes against the idsa guidelines.

I can get you some names in ct....
another nickname

Social climber
Yazoo Ms
Sep 3, 2017 - 12:43pm PT
I don't doubt some people have trouble with Lyme disease. Sadly, it generates a degree of uninformed hysteria (as demonstrated above).

My own single, one-time experience is much more typical: Got "the rash" (no tick or bite actually observed)...took the pills......& then, other than that -- nothing.

This after countless tick bits over many years, many probably undetected by me.

Details of misinformation documented in various citations here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_Lyme_disease
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Sep 4, 2017 - 05:43pm PT
Yes, I am going to go see Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt about Lyme Disease
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkXqxRfG0jk&t=4494s

I see here in Wikipedia I read: " there is no reproducible or convincing scientific evidence of any relationship to B. burgdorferi infection."[2] There is no clinical evidence that "chronic" Lyme disease is caused by a persistent infection.[3]"

Most of the Doctors follow idiotic protocols, such as looking for Lyme in the wrong places with the wrong method. The first thing I do, which works for me, is throw these guys in the garbage where they belong because of the reason I mentioned above.

I am now doing much better following Dr. Rawls protocl, a Dr. who had Lyme and took antibiotics to find they did not work in his case.
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Sep 6, 2017 - 07:32am PT
now i just have a headache on and off, the tick I got from was tested for all kinds of diseases and they came up negative. However, I may have got bit by a separate tick which is a possibility. I feel normal between headaches which are on and off every few seconds. I got some wifi blocking clothing and have been sleeping out of the wifi, I also got rid of my cell phone and all that seems to help. As soon as I put the wifi blocking hoodie on I started to feel just slightly better, I could feel a difference. And I am taking all those herbs and vitamins, eating sauerkraut and drinking cabutcha.

My family is apposed to removing all the places where there is mold, the pool deck, the tiles in the basement I put in, and they refuse to make efforts to cut down on the radiation that has been shown to hurt lyme suffers, they are apposed to any kind of progress. So I need to move out. Even if they believed the facts, which they do not even when they do not study the cases, they would still not change. They would need to have the problem to be so inconvenienced, I already understand that. Some people would rather die or have you die then give up their cell phone and electric breakers at night, go figure.

I realize this is kind of a blog and I apologies for that, but I think it is important because it changes the way you should and the way I am going to approach the cliffs on the east coast so as to never see another tick. Maybe I will only climb below 32 degrees or in a tyvek suit.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Sep 6, 2017 - 09:12am PT
Maybe I will only climb below 32 degrees or in a tyvek suit.

Try a hasmat suit maybe? First thing I do when I get to the crags is pull down my pants and spray liberal amounts of Deet all over, front and back, then up and down my hairy legs. Works everytime like "ticks-b-gone".

Arne
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 6, 2017 - 10:23am PT
Ticks are there below 32 under the surface.... last Februaru we dug a deep hole through about 3' of snow and into the leaf litter underneath. It was 10 degrees on the surface of the snow. Yep, live ticks underneath that crawled right on!

Permethrin treated clothes (Sawyer yellow bottle), and DEET are my friends. PITA but they work. If you're not using these and spend time in the New England woods, you'll get ticks, guaranteed.

If you believe that electromagnetic waves harm you, why not schedule some quality time in the middle of nowhere to try and prove that point? I'd imagine some Northern Canadian spots are pretty devoid of most man-made emissions and still relatively easy to reach...


Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Sep 6, 2017 - 10:45am PT
Two things;

1;
My own single, one-time experience is much more typical: Got "the rash" (no tick or bite actually observed)...took the pills......& then, other than that -- nothing.

So, you got the bullseye and caught it in time. You went on antibiotics, yet argue that Lyme isn't a big deal. Why'd you take the meds? Beyond that, I've yet to read one single thing from you that isn't either negative or contradictory. Maybe work on that.

2;
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Radio_Quiet_Zone

It's an actual place where there are no microwaves. ;)
80tripp

Social climber
the woods
Sep 6, 2017 - 01:59pm PT
And if Lyme weren't enough, there's Powassan encephalitis to worry about.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/tick-bite-caused-death-hudson-valley-teen-doctors-article-1.1433604

At least it kills quickly. No one's going to be disabled with chronic Powassan.
another nickname

Social climber
Yazoo Ms
Sep 7, 2017 - 07:53am PT
In personal experience, I observe that the sun revolves around a flat earth.

One is wise to defer to the scientific establishment on these and similar matters & not insist otherwise based on one's imperfect knowledge of the universe.

Of course, a "scientific mindset" is not synonymous with rationality (note, for example, Linus Pauling's pathetic maundering about "Vitamin C").

This supposed "mindset" (quite separate category from the "scientific establishment") may (?) even correlate negatively with understanding of subtleties and ambiguities, particularly when related to language.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 7, 2017 - 08:02am PT
....the scientific establishment.....

Which, at one time, wholly supported your flat-earth observation.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 7, 2017 - 08:08am PT
The nutjobbery is starting to get neck-deep here...
Moosely

Social climber
Reno
Sep 8, 2017 - 04:36am PT
Of course, a "scientific mindset" is not synonymous with rationality (note, for example, Linus Pauling's pathetic maundering about "Vitamin C").


What's "not synonymous with rationality" is your derogatory comment about Pauling.

Apparently you're blindly repeating the propaganda of the criminal corporate medical business against Pauling with your dismissive statement about him.

With almost total certainty, people who accuse Pauling of this piece of allopathic propaganda or who ridicule Pauling are either (1) pawns and hacks of the massive business of conventional medicine, (2) unwitting people who repeat their propaganda, (3) people who never actually looked deeply into Pauling's work and dietary supplements, or (4) people who fall into a combination of the former categories.

Primarily it is the corrupt BUSINESS of orthodox medicine and their salespeople who keep ridiculing Pauling as some deluded Nobel Prize winner. And it doesn't take a genius to see why: Pauling had been threatening the huge bottom line of big corporate medicine. Here is a good example of a hack MD who has been discrediting Pauling and supplements with disinformation and lies: read the scholarly article "2 Big Lies: No Vitamin Benefits & Supplements Are Very Dangerous" by a published author of the Orthomolecular Medicine News organization (visit http://www.supplements-and-health.com/vitamin-benefits.html ).

If you look closely, you'll find that politics by the allopathy -- instead of real science -- is almost always behind the truly unscientific dumb attacks against Pauling. It's indicative of how little real science is behind the various claims of traditional medicine...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 8, 2017 - 06:42am PT
As if the dietary supplements business wasn't a corrupt and more often than not criminal enterprise.
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Sep 11, 2017 - 01:33am PT

Sep 6, 2017 - 09:12am PT
Maybe I will only climb below 32 degrees or in a tyvek suit.

Try a hasmat suit maybe? First thing I do when I get to the crags is pull down my pants and spray liberal amounts of Deet all over, front and back, then up and down my hairy legs. Works everytime like "ticks-b-gone".

Arne


The Lone star tick does not give sh#t what you spray, and if your breathing meat they're running for ya from as far away as 39 feet or jumping from leaves of onto your head, ticks do do this! And besides, if you do get bit you can not longer use a natural protocol, which is the way to go these days. When you detox you will be Deeting yourself to death! I like the white suite idea, good idea! But I am certainly not being lazy about the situation anymore. And bring some battery operated hedge clippers for the trail, if you are climbing up every damn weekend.
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Sep 11, 2017 - 01:36am PT
"If you believe that electromagnetic waves harm you, why not schedule some quality time in the middle of nowhere to try and prove that point?"

I have been looking at a lot of Dr videos and what they are saying is that their patients do better out of the radiation, especially at night, and this and vaccines etc is the reason they suppose that Lyme is now a disease rather then just a bump in the road.
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Sep 11, 2017 - 01:43am PT
Which, at one time, wholly supported your flat-earth observation.

LOL, that is one of the greatest come backs of all time of what I ever read of any foarm. I will go to the grave and never forget this one Fear! A real gem! You got any more like this? I need to write these down now and put them in my journal.
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Sep 11, 2017 - 02:14am PT
Sep 8, 2017 - 06:42am PT
As if the dietary supplements business wasn't a corrupt and more often than not criminal enterprise.


I think that's a Tu quoque argument.The point is that big pharma has nothing to do with supporting your immune system or lasting cures or removing the problem. They primarily treat symptoms and are not educated in herbs or food or what a patients body likes or does not like. They are incapable of thinking abstractly, for example they need to always follow specific protocols irregardless of individual circumstances regarding chemo, which does not work, and when it does is meant to be a temporary fix as defined by how they use the word "cured". A carefully study of the pharmaceutical companies is very revealing. It was started by chemical companies.

My headache was continuing until I rubbed frankincense into it with coconut oil. That helped a lot. I also could read some junk and realized I need to double my intake of Japanese Knot weed,
Olive Leaf Astragalus etc.

And btw, if any of you guys work for the pharmaceutical industry this information is not for you. There is no reasoning with you, your unteachable and have no idea what real learning has to do with.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 11, 2017 - 08:09am PT
That helped a lot.

As long as you think so then keep on rubbing!
Nobody disputes the efficacy of a gud placebo!
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 11, 2017 - 09:59am PT
There is no reasoning with you, your unteachable and have no idea what real learning has to do with.

Au contraire my friend... They've learned to make money, lots of it.

You mistake moral depravity for low intelligence.
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Sep 11, 2017 - 03:30pm PT
touché !
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Sep 11, 2017 - 03:40pm PT
Dear Mr Reilly,

When you get bit by the Lone Star Tick and your head feels split and your screaming like you are out of your wits, the only recourse, the only thing that I have found to do is to run hot water over your head 110 degrees for 20 minutes, then rub frankincense in there with the oil to take it in, and if you go climbing or get on a bike then the oxygen or what ever it is makes the headache go away. Why would I lie? I have a little headache now, but have been OK all day. If it gets bad I will do all of the above.

However a warning, If your body is not pure and you have already been doing pharmaceuticals and antibiotics the hot water will release the toxins out of the fat cells into your head and just about kill you under hot water. You would have to do chelation therapy first.
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Sep 25, 2017 - 08:24am PT
From 8/25 -9/25 all I could think about was Borrelia Stari wondering about Borrelia Burgdorferi. I have no fear only meningitis. For that I come near death in hot water for 20 minutes every day bring up my body core temp to convolution territory 104.5 for 10 minutes. Now I only do 103.5 for 20 minutes. Then I do my legs in the morning. I use a thermometer in my ear to get a reading on my core. When I bath my legs I get up to 101.5 and sweating for awhile after. I have someone watch me in the tub so I don't die as easily. Gotta do it, but I would say 104.5 is not a good idea. I am also taking Dr. Rawls herbalist blend along with some hemp oil.

Now after so many days the melanoma is subsiding and I can sleep. What a ride! I should be 100% 30 days. I am glad I never saw a medical doctor, they cure nothing. I probably would end up with dementia or some other ailment in the future if I saw those quacks. If I get bit again, which will not happen because I am hereafter going in a tievek suit, I will already be on the astragalus every day with a little Japanese knotweed in my coffee.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 25, 2017 - 04:24pm PT
probably would end up with dementia...

Probably...?
couchmaster

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 25, 2017 - 07:56pm PT
Donald, I'd suggest you at least consult with a real doctor. If you choose to not follow his/her/it's advice that's OK too, but you should at least peek in that dark hole to see whats what from that point of view so you receive all sides of info. Did you not read Lynn's post about Dan?

Can anyone post up a Lyme expert in Donald's area? Donald, what general location are you?

Donald Perry quote:
"From 8/25 -9/25 all I could think about was Borrelia Stari wondering about Borrelia Burgdorferi. I have no fear only meningitis. For that I come near death in hot water for 20 minutes every day bring up my body core temp to convolution territory 104.5 for 10 minutes. Now I only do 103.5 for 20 minutes. Then I do my legs in the morning. I use a thermometer in my ear to get a reading on my core. When I bath my legs I get up to 101.5 and sweating for awhile after. I have someone watch me in the tub so I don't die as easily. Gotta do it, but I would say 104.5 is not a good idea. I am also taking Dr. Rawls herbalist blend along with some hemp oil.

Now after so many days the melanoma is subsiding and I can sleep. What a ride! I should be 100% 30 days. I am glad I never saw a medical doctor, they cure nothing. I probably would end up with dementia or some other ailment in the future if I saw those quacks. If I get bit again, which will not happen because I am hereafter going in a tievek suit, I will already be on the astragalus every day with a little Japanese knotweed in my coffee. "
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 25, 2017 - 08:30pm PT
You've got melanoma now too? Geez... That generally doesn't 'subside'...
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Sep 26, 2017 - 08:47pm PT
I have been consulting with experts, and I have the book HEALING LYME by Dr. Steven Harrod Buhner second edition. All the Doctors say the same thing. Just keep eating the rabbit food twice a day.

Today I felt fairly normal, a little paranoid that it was temporary even through it has been getting better every day, in the beginning it was getting worse every day. The top of my head is starting not to hurt. I just feel a little weak, I could do a 5.11 though.

We have a normal size tub and I do not fit in it. So every evening I get in it and let my legs stick out. The water temperature is 110 degrees F. After 20 minutes my temperature is 104.3. It takes awhile for my temperature to come back down, I just sit there on the pot. The whole time I have someone watch me in case I pass out or something. I have already been at 104.5 for a long period and now I just jump it up there at the end. I kind of know what I Am doing at this point. You can not do this if you are full of antibiotics or GMO sh#t, you may have a really bad reaction. The antibiotics do not work 30 percent of the time, so I did not bother with them, and I do not think they are a rock solid solution because you can not take them every day forever. I take about 30 pills twice a day, and I open the jell caps into a glass. I think those make you constipated. It is important that you do not get constipated, I learned that early on, you need to eat a lot of prunes or you get backed up like you are gonna die. In 30 more days or less I think this will all be in the past at the rate I am going now. In the morning what I do is bath only my legs. The idea I have is to kill all the baby spirochetes and when the adults die there will be nothing left. That and the natural antibiotics, cats claw, Japanese knot weed etc is working slowly but surly. I am also keeping out of the wifi and mold, and I no longer have a cell anywhere near me.

Hope this helps.

One more thing. Anything over 100 and you are putting yourself in the death zone. You can die in the tub, so be warned. Below 105 your body can go into convulsions. Do whatever you want to do, but ask your quack medical doctor before you do anything like any of this.

donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Sep 26, 2017 - 08:52pm PT
Sorry, I meant Meningitis https://g.co/kgs/Hciean
perswig

climber
Sep 27, 2017 - 03:54am PT
We have a normal size tub and I do not fit in it. So every evening I get in it and let my legs stick out. The water temperature is 110 degrees F. After 20 minutes my temperature is 104.3. It takes awhile for my temperature to come back down, I just sit there on the pot. The whole time I have someone watch me in case I pass out or something. I have already been at 104.5 for a long period and now I just jump it up there at the end. I kind of know what I Am doing at this point. You can not do this if you are full of antibiotics or GMO sh#t, you may have a really bad reaction. The antibiotics do not work 30 percent of the time, so I did not bother with them, and I do not think they are a rock solid solution because you can not take them every day forever. I take about 30 pills twice a day, and I open the jell caps into a glass. I think those make you constipated. It is important that you do not get constipated, I learned that early on, you need to eat a lot of prunes or you get backed up like you are gonna die. In 30 more days or less I think this will all be in the past at the rate I am going now. In the morning what I do is bath only my legs. The idea I have is to kill all the baby spirochetes and when the adults die there will be nothing left. That and the natural antibiotics, cats claw, Japanese knot weed etc is working slowly but surly. I am also keeping out of the wifi and mold, and I no longer have a cell anywhere near me.



What dafuk just happened there?
Dale
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Sep 29, 2017 - 06:11am PT
what happened there is I am getting cured from a type of Lyme without antibiotics, Understand Dude. Okay? Maybe you need to start at the beginning of my rant.
c wilmot

climber
Sep 29, 2017 - 07:16am PT
I think our gov is either spreading ticks with disease or is allowing people to do so. In the northeast there is several new tick borne diseases that have suddenly occurred -far outside of their previous range

How hard would it be to breed ticks with infectious disease?
How hard would it be to disperse these ticks by small aircraft?

And the big one- how much $$$$ can be made off of making people sick with diseases that are treated with pharmaceuticals?
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Sep 29, 2017 - 07:39am PT
This guy says that we have always had these "diseases", but hat the cell phones and other things make it so that our immune systems do not work any more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkXqxRfG0jk I got rid of my wifi, cell phone and sleep where there are no microwaves.
couchmaster

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 4, 2017 - 02:44pm PT
C wilmont noted above, quote:
"I think our gov is either spreading ticks with disease or is allowing people to do so. In the northeast there is several new tick borne diseases that have suddenly occurred -far outside of their previous range"


Nazi's collaborating with the US government? The evidence is very strong that our government created the Lyme epidemic. Here's Aaron and Melissa Dykes well researched story about it titled "The Officially Ignored Connection Between Lyme Disease and Plum Island" http://truthstreammedia.com/2017/09/09/officially-ignored-connection-lyme-disease-plum-island/

Snippett:
"....Lyme Disease was not discovered or recognized until the mid 70s when there was an outbreak of what doctors originally mistook for juvenile rheumatoid arthritis in several southeastern Connecticut towns including Lyme and Old Lyme, which is how the disease got its name. A newspaper archive search revealed that the bacteria that causes Lyme, Borrelia burgdorferi, wasn’t mentioned in print in newspapers until 1984 (although Google newspapers came back with nothing at all).

If you look at these towns on a map, you’ll notice they are right directly across the Long Island Sound from Plum Island, which has been a government animal disease research facility since the mid 1950s and doubled as a military biological warfare research facility.

It’s less than nine miles from shore to shore the way the crow flies.

The outbreak and concentration of Lyme Disease in this country centers around that place. The CDC admits that 95% of cases of Lyme come from just 14 states, the majority of which are located around Plum Island.

Plum Islands biowarfare ties date back to World War II and Operation Paperclip, a top secret government program to shield Nazi scientists from trial or punishment by quietly bringing them over to the U.S. and giving them new identities and U.S. citizenship in exchange for working for the government and military.

One such Nazi scientists was Dr. Erich Traub, lab chief during World War II for Nazi Germany’s Insel Riems – a secret biological warfare laboratory on an island (sound familiar?) in the Baltic Sea where Traub worked directly under Hitler’s #2 Heinrich Himmler. His job included spraying viruses from planes over occupied Russia. Prior to the war, just by the way, Traub had been involved in Nazi activities in the U.S. at Camp Siegfried on Long Island just 30 miles from Plum Island while he was here on a fellowship studying viruses and bacteria at, of all places, the Rockefeller Institute.

Plum Island was specifically named for Cold War biowarfare research alongside Dugway Proving Ground and Fort Detrick back in the early ’50s when the US biowarfare program and clandestine germ warfare trials first began. Seems like they got the location idea from Insel Reims.

Gee, can’t imagine who gave them that idea.

Dr. Erich Traub completed his Operation Paperclip duties working for the American biological warfare program from 1949 to 1953, during which time he consulted with the CIA and scientists at Fort Detrick before returning to West Germany in 1953 to run the country’s own Insel Riems-like experimental virus facility in Tübingen (with the U.S. government’s permission). Not only did USDA officials visit Traub’s lab over there, but Traub also briefly worked for the USDA which oversees Plum Island and throughout the ’50s he was in regular contact with Plum Island’s Director Doc Shahan. Dr. Traub was also at the Plum Island dedication ceremony in 1956 and visited the place at least twice after that in 57 and 58, when Plum Island’s lead scientist Dr. Jacob Traum retired and the USDA considered replacing him with who else? Dr. Erich Traub.

In the 70s, attorney John Loftus was hired by the office of special investigations, a unit set up by the Justice
department to look into Nazi war crimes. He was given a top secret clearance and allowed access to decades worth of classified documents. Among other things, Loftus turned up records of Nazi germ warfare scientists who came to the US and experimented with dropping poison ticks from planes to spread rare diseases. He also specifically mentioned in his book The Belarus Secret that he received information that suggested the U.S. tested some of these poison ticks on the Plum Island artillery range during the early 1950s. This story was further validated by attorney Michael Carroll in his book Lab 257. Carroll claims that not only did a source who worked on Plum Island in the 50s tell him that some of the workers purposefully released ticks outdoors on the island in 1951 when it was still Fort Terry and that one of the scientists involved was called the quote, “Nazi scientist,” but Carroll says he dug up a box of 1950s USDA files from the National Archives vault that included three folders: two labeled “tick research” and one labeled “E. Traub”. Both were empty.

Even more damning, in an article in the Journal of Degenerative Diseases, Marjorie Tietjen reported that 60% of chronic Lyme patients are actually co-infected with several strains of mycoplasma, the most common one being “mycoplasma fermentens” which is patented by the U.S. Army and army pathologist Dr. Lo; Pathogenic mycoplasma, U.S. Patent 5,242,820 issued Sept. 7, 1993........."
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 4, 2017 - 05:30pm PT
Borrelia is an almost perfect bug. It's likely that way due to millions of years feasting on mammals in a largely symbiotic fashion.

Do a little research on current in vitro trials where they're trying to kill the bug in the several different forms it can assume. It's an amazing and almost intelligent but still single celled bug.

People didn't create Borrelia, it's been here for far longer than us.
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Oct 5, 2017 - 10:59am PT
I did the traverse under double clutch yesterday, thought I could not walk to the Uuberfall. But instead I felt better as the day went on. Almost blacked out under the roof, I barley made it. I have been doing almost completly nothing for 6 weeks.

I have not done ANY antibiotics, there is no antibiotics in my milk or meat. And in my house I am away from the wifi and I no longer use a cell phone unless I need to call 911, it has to be really important. I do not use it for weeks at a time. I need to get some maps. There is a sh#t load of sh#t I need to stay away from because my only hope is my immune system and taking hot baths. (I like using the bath because it is easy to get my temperature up to 102-103 while using a thermometer.) My hip joint was bothering me more before, but I started taking magnesium and phosphorus and some other stuff again ... as well as the minerals from Longevity and bone broth soup. I lost my hip joint in 2010 and grew it back by 2011.

I think I will be at 100% in two more weeks at the rate I am going, we shall see, it has been six so far. However keep in mind I have STARI, yet I had meningitis and it has been a really bad time for me and worse then for some Lyme patients on the short term. Maybe the Stari has activated some old Lyme I had from bites for other ticks? Maybe that is why my hip went ... I got back to 90% by eating organic and cutting out the milk and bread. The test for Lyme involves looking at my immune system to see if it is working and then the typical treatment involves killing it, I think that is kind of ironic.

Some people do not have the same results. I would argue that this has to do with not having the perfect protocol which would include detoxing from antibiotics. I think that if the herbs do not work it may have to do with where they are grown or some other factors one needs to be more meticulous about. The spirochetes can adapt to antibiotics but they do not adapt to reform a resistance to the herbs. Yet I would have to agree that the hot baths have a key role in helping me. [I guess the only way to know for sure is allow myself to get chronic Lyme, other then that this is all speculation.]

Due to my run-out go for it mentality if I got bit by a rabid dog I would probably attempt to battle it out with the buggers rather then take the vaccine if I studied it intensively before hand and thought I could do it, which might end up in a creator. I suppose some people might think A.6 is safer. Or maybe I would cave in, but you only have a short time to do that and the only other person to succeed still has problems. I wonder what temperature rabies dies off at?

Looking back I think I can say I am now in a place where I can live, but I know my thinking is still not up to 100% yet in comparison to what I was doing before, but I am getting better every day. What a ride!
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Oct 6, 2017 - 01:24pm PT
I am going climbing Saturday, I think I can handle a 5.11 and I do not have any brain fog. This is what I am eating. I think success has a lot to do with the grade of supplements you are using, when it goes from plant> shipping >factory>powder>factory>pill>shipping>store in that time alot of the chemical constituents of the plant are degraded and lost.

about 2000 mg 2 x a day

Astragalus from NOW FOODS

Andrographis from NOW FOODS

Japanese Knot Weed [authentic Chinese botanicals Polygonum cuspidatum rhizoma 100% organic Japanese knotweed powder ] from nuherbs organics.

Magnesium Glycinate from Metabolic Maintenance suggested by David Wolfe.

Bone Collangenizer by ULTRA suggested by David Wolfe

Phosphorus by wellness one (tm) world

Olive Leaf Extract NON-GMO from NOORISH

Youngevity Tangy Tangerine 2.0 Has a lot of minerals
Youngevity Beyond Osteo-fx Powder which includes calcium, which I do not want to take because David Wood says it does nothing.

Distilled Fish Oil by green pastures

VITAL PLAN . COM

Advanced Biotic: Japanese Knotweed / Cat's Claw / AP-Bio (tm) Andrographis / New Gar (tm) Garlic Poweder / Sarsaparilla Root / Berberine / Other ingredients are: Beat Fiber / Plant based magnesium / saturate plant cellulose

Mitochondrial Support: Vitamine C and E, Setria Glutahione, N Aceyl Cysteine NAC, Coenzyme Q10,

Adaptogen Recovery: Chinese skullcap Extract / Cordyceps Sinensis CS-4, Reishi Mushroom Extract / Rehmania Extract.

Prevention Plus a load of vitamins and minerals.

PS My lymphatic system was bothering me because I was doing too much sitting. My back felt like someone hit me with a 2 x 10. That thing does not work unless your moving, your heart is not what makes it circulate.

Still learning, hope this may be of help. It took me a long time to figure all this sh#t out. Get the book HEaling Lyme 2nd edition and use that as your guide.
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Oct 7, 2017 - 06:30pm PT
I was able to drive from NJ to, walk to, and climb dirty gerty and some other thing just as hard. Then I came right back home. I did not feel light headed or dizzy.

I think I am getting better. I sometimes feel like I have a fever when I do not, and I creep very slowly like an insect when I walk, but it feels OK.

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 7, 2017 - 08:58pm PT
Hey, whatever works to make you feel better DJP....

Glad you had a good day.
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Oct 8, 2017 - 06:07am PT
Thanks,

And I wanted to mention one more interesting thing. Okay, so yesterday I walked about 2 miles with a pack and did two climbs. My hip joints which I rebuilt from scratch are doing better since I started taking the magnesium and phosphorus and BioSil - Bone Collagenizer and bone broth soup. But I only just started taking them. About a week ago I could not go to sleep my joints were in such extreme pain, until I started rubbing them.

So anyway, last light I was in the bath and by accident in the last 5 minutes we found I was up to 106.7. But the funny thing is it felt more like 102. The other day I was hyperventilating around that temperature. But after all this exercise, which is a lot for me for what I have been doing lately, I felt fine. So we let it go for 5 minutes and the effects were not so bad. The usual, I can not get out of the tub for 10 minutes, but not too bad. I think all the exercise cleared my lymphatic system because I think that mainly works on body moment where you have these one way valves and moment is what drives the bad bacteria through there. I had a really bad backache in my lymphatic system but now its not so bad.

So this means a few things. Most importantly, high body temperatures will have different effects on different people, but also on the same person depending on what they did that day. It is very dangerous, so you at least need help doing it. I would not recommend doing it at all, and surly not alone.
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Oct 9, 2017 - 06:54am PT
I wanted to share with you guys two things. I noticed that when my brain is working well I throw sh#t out. So this is encouraging, I am now able to throw my horded piles into the trash. I am trowing out all my old pills, but I thought you might like to see the collection I amassed over the years. A lot of the stuff I do not even know the reason I bought it, but at the time there was a good reason. I came to the realization of how important it is to have fresh pills ... and if it is not in my daily bucket it needs to go. Whats the point of having it if it is not getting used. I suppose I should add some new pills out of these labels as time goes on though. It seems that super topo cuts the pixels down,so I will post a link in case you want to zoom in.
pills
pills
Credit: donald perry


http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o20/donaldjamesperry/Gunks-Talk/DSC_00181_zpsdhwremdh.jpg
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Oct 9, 2017 - 08:02am PT
Even more damning, in an article in the Journal of Degenerative Diseases, Marjorie Tietjen reported that 60% of chronic Lyme patients are actually co-infected with several strains of mycoplasma, the most common one being “mycoplasma fermentens” which is patented by the U.S. Army and army pathologist Dr. Lo; Pathogenic mycoplasma, U.S. Patent 5,242,820 issued Sept. 7, 1993........."

This statement is patently false. Neither the U.S. Army nor Shyh-Ching Lo invented the novel mycoplasma fermentans strain he isolated from Kaposi's sarcoma of a patient with AIDS patients (m. f. incognitus). Hell, he and his team didn't even know it was a mycoplasma at first but rather thought it was a virus mainly because mycoplasma strains tend to be among the smallest units of self-replicating DNA in existence. All of these strains pre-date Dr. Lo's birth by a considerable frame of time.

...use of the mycoplasma M. fermentans incognitus as well as all strains of M. fermentans in detecting specific antibodies in sera of patients with AIDS or an acute fulminant systemic disease and/or animals and its use as a vaccine against infection by the mycoplasma.

The whole Plum Island tract is nonsense. Recent research into the evolutionary history of the Lyme genome shows it again pre-dates its recent emergence.

To explore the evolutionary history of B. burgdorferi in North America, we collected ticks from across the USA and southern Canada from 1984 to 2013 and sequenced the, to our knowledge, largest collection of 146 B. burgdorferi s.s. genomes. Here, we show that B. burgdorferi s.s. has a complex evolutionary history with previously undocumented levels of migration. Diversity is ancient and geographically widespread, well pre-dating the Lyme disease epidemic of the past ~40 years, as well as the Last Glacial Maximum ~20,000 years ago. This means the recent emergence of human Lyme disease probably reflects ecological change—climate change and land use changes over the past century—rather than evolutionary change of the bacterium.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 9, 2017 - 08:34am PT
That, and they found Lyme dna on that freeze-dried climber (even older than Werner)

https://www.livescience.com/18704-oldest-case-lyme-disease-spotted-iceman-mummy.html
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Oct 9, 2017 - 08:50am PT
Well, I am sure the army is not so stupid that they would not consider using Lyme or some such things to preform certain tasks. They do more then just blow up sh#t.

healyje, what do you think of this movie? Maybe you have a good answer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbA2HFJ949U&index=64&t=221s&list=WL

Did that "THIS WILL SHOCK YOU TO YOUR CORE 911 From Cheney to Mossad" ?

Here is another, I Thought it was obvious, and never doubted for one second that it was controlled ... Larry Silverstein and Secretary of State John Kerr both said it was controlled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmx-DiWUqfs

CIA Agent Confesses On Deathbed: ‘We Blew Up WTC7 On 9 11’
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Oct 11, 2017 - 06:07am PT
These two videos are kind of interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHH3zArD9-c&t=2008

This one below is from the perspective of someone trapped in a Psychotherapy hospital. Nice music.

In memory of Aaron Dover I post his video, RIP

The Satanic Hoax of "Modern Medicine" and the Secret NHS Death Camps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPGadzJCayQ

And BTW no, I do not believe it the flat earth theory. And I certainly do not believe everything Aaron says in his video, but he nails the basic concepts of the Alchemists Pharmaceutical Doctors VS [pharmaceuticals ie poisons. The way pharmaceuticals are made is they have a dosage with kills an animal and from there they cut it by 50% and then through a process they calculate a persentace where by they can use it. It is a poison. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spoucYXa3-A Codex Alimentarius 1 of 4] VS the Herbalist right on the head! I consider his video a most spectacular wonderful and beautiful work of art.
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Oct 13, 2017 - 04:16pm PT
http://www.prohealth.com/lyme/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=29931

How I Discovered Hyperthermia for Lyme Disease and Why It Works

Reprinted from New Paradigms in Lyme Disease Treatment: 10 Top Doctors Reveal Healing Strategies that Work, with the kind permission of Friedrich R. Douwes, MD and Connie Strasheim. To learn more about the book and to read more about Dr. Douwes’ treatment approach, see: www.NewLymeTreatments.com.

It was entirely by coincidence that I began treating Lyme disease patients and ended up discovering a groundbreaking new treatment for Lyme. It started in 2000, when two cancer patients who also had Lyme disease came to my clinic. One was from Boston, and the other was from Canada. The Canadian woman had advanced breast cancer with metastases to her lungs, liver and bones. When I took a history on these women, both told me that they actually suffered more from symptoms of Lyme than from symptoms of cancer! Their symptoms were typical of cancer, but because I had not worked with Lyme disease patients before, I did not know that some of their symptoms could also be due to Lyme disease.

I gave them whole-body hyperthermia treatments for their cancers. Hyperthermia in its various forms is a very effective and well-researched cancer treatment. Cancer cells die in the presence of high heat, so many doctors worldwide use hyperthermia on their cancer patients.

There are different types of hyperthermia, including whole-body hyperthermia, which is what we give both our Lyme and cancer patients. For this, the patient lies down inside of a special thermal chamber similar to a large incubator. It heats the body’s tissues to 41.6° Celsius (or 107° Fahrenheit). It takes two hours to raise the body to this temperature. Once there, the body is maintained at this temperature for two hours. After the treatment, it takes two more hours for the body to cool down, which means that the patient’s temperature is elevated for a total of six hours.

Once the body has reached the maximum temperature, we administer chemotherapy (for our cancer patients). Chemotherapy is activated and potentiated by heat, so hyperthermia makes it more effective. We have had such great success with this kind of treatment approach that our clinic has become well known internationally as a cancer treatment center, and we now see patients from all over the world.

Anyway, after these two women received hyperthermia treatment for their cancers, they told us that their Lyme symptoms had also disappeared! The brain fog, tingling in their fingers, fatigue and other symptoms—were all gone. We had associated the tingling with polyneuropathy, which is a side effect of chemotherapy, but in these women, it was a symptom caused by Lyme.

I pondered this and said to my work colleagues, “Do you remember that before there were antibiotics, doctors treated syphilis (which is similar to Borrelia in its composition, structure and behavior) by intentionally infecting patients with malaria to induce a fever, which then killed the syphilis?” The treatment was called “malariotherapy.” Doctors would then give the syphilis patients the age-old drug quinine to control the fever and kill the malaria. Professor Julius Wagner-Jauregg at Vienna University was one of the first authorities in syphilis treatment, and he won a Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1927 for his discoveries.

When I recalled that doctors used to treat syphilis with heat, it made me wonder whether hyperthermia also might be effective against Borrelia, since the Borrelia organism is similar in its characteristics to syphilis. I said to my colleagues, “Could it be that our whole-body hyperthermia treatments could also be effective for Lyme disease?”
I researched the medical literature to discover whether any studies supported my hypothesis, and I found one that was conducted by a group of Swedish researchers in 1996. In the study, the researchers proved that Borrelia was “thermolabile,” or susceptible to destruction by heat, and could not tolerate high temperatures. At 39° C (or 102.2° F), they found that the spirochetes became immobile, and at 40° C (or 104° F) they shed their outer membrane, but when they were exposed to a temperature of 41.6° C (or 106.9° F) for two hours, 100 percent of the bacteria died.

I was excited to discover this, and I told my colleagues that this was exactly what we were doing by treating patients using hyperthermia; we were raising their body temperature to 41.6° C for two hours. So I suggested that we do this treatment on some Lyme disease patients just to see what would happen. I wanted to find out whether my theory had any substance, because up until this point, we had only been treating cancer patients.

Shortly thereafter, we found four or five patients with advanced Lyme disease, and gave them two whole-body hyperthermia treatments. We also gave them intravenous antibiotic therapy during the treatments and found that not only did the heat kill the microbes, but that the antibiotics were also more effective when their bodies’ temperature was elevated. This phenomenon was described in the Swedish study. According to the researchers of the study, if you administer Ceftriaxone or another antibiotic after elevating the patient’s body temperature to 41.6°, the medication’s activity becomes amplified 60-fold.

From our research and clinical observations, we discovered three things:

1) Hyperthermia kills Lyme microbes
2) Hyperthermia increases the effectiveness of antibiotics
3) Hyperthermia decreases microbes’ resistance to antibiotics and enables antibiotics to get inside the cells much more easily.

After I had treated somewhere between five and seven patients with Lyme disease, I decided to attend a medical conference in the United States to learn more about the disease. While there, I sat next to a cardiologist who told me that he had been attending the conference because his entire family had been infected with Lyme while on vacation in Austria. His wife was bedridden; his daughter had been a medical student, but could no longer attend medical school, and his younger son, who was a 10-year-old prodigy who had played the violin in public, could no longer even hold a violin and was unable to attend school.

I told the doctor that I had just discovered a new treatment for Lyme disease that was possibly superior to any other treatment modality out there, although it had only been tested on a few patients so far. The man, figuring that he had nothing to lose and everything to gain, traveled to Klinik St. Georg with his wife, son and daughter, and I treated them all with hyperthermia.

The results were amazing. The whole family got well, and the wife ended up going back to work in her husband’s clinic. The daughter finished medical school, and the son was able to play the violin again, and today – as far as I know – is the symphony conductor at his college. Successfully treating this family was the turning point for us in our approach to Lyme disease.

Our Success Rate with Hyperthermia

Not long after treating this family, we began to treat many more people with Lyme disease – maybe 50 per year initially. Now, we treat 150-200 people per year, and statistically, the patients that we see are those who have a long history of disease and who have seen somewhere between 10 and 20 doctors. They are people who have received all kinds of conventional and natural treatments, from nutrition to antibiotics—to you name it. So, when they get here, they are so-called “lost causes,” because no treatment or doctor has been able to help them thus far.

Fortunately, we have found that we are able to get over 60 percent of these patients “back to life” by using hyperthermia, along with a variety of adjunct treatments. By the time they leave our clinic, they are functioning well and are able to return to work and live a normal life. And, I have many testimonials to prove this. You can find some of these on the Klink St. Georg website: CancerClinicStGeorg.com/en/patients-testimonials.

Another 30 percent of our patients improve with the treatment, but still require additional treatments to get better. These are generally people whose bodies need repair from the damage caused by Lyme disease.

The remaining 10 percent of our patients do not experience any improvement. Now, keep in mind that we treat the most advanced cases of Lyme disease; people for whom every other treatment approach out there has failed. These people are the “worst of the worst.”

Yet, the results that we have had for others have been miraculous. We have seen people who were once bedridden or who used to have seizures every 50 minutes, or who were unable to even communicate, get well. We have seen people who were once given a diagnosis of multiple sclerosis and who couldn’t walk, return to having a normal life.

Since 2000, I have treated over 850 Lyme disease patients with mostly good results. Since we use antibiotics in conjunction with hyperthermia, I like to call our treatment approach “Antibiotic-Augmented Thermal Eradication (AAT) of Lyme disease.”

Hyperthermia is probably the only treatment out there that can eradicate Borrelia infections nearly 100 percent, because the heat goes deep into the connective tissue and joints, where most conventional treatments can’t penetrate. And, unlike other modalities, the microbes can’t develop resistance to this type of treatment. Of course, it’s unlikely that any modality can eradicate the microbes completely, because a 100 percent eradication rate doesn’t exist in medicine, but I feel that we have one of the highest rates of success in eliminating Borrelia.

Once we eliminate the Borrelia organisms with hyperthermia and antibiotics, the amount of Lyme neurotoxins in the body is also immediately and automatically reduced. This is because Borrelia throws out neurotoxins in the body literally every minute or every second, so once it is gone, this can no longer happen. Neurotoxins are one of the principal causes of symptoms in people with Lyme disease, especially neurological and rheumatic symptoms, and joint inflammation. They cause chronic, silent inflammation that is sometimes difficult to diagnose, but which causes other symptoms.

So we find that as soon as we eliminate the Borrelia, then the neurotoxins in the body also diminish to almost nothing, as does the inflammation. We’ve had patients here that used to have seizures (a sign of encephalitis and brain inflammation), but as soon as their Borrelia was eliminated, their inflammation and seizures disappeared, too. It really has been remarkable.
About Friedrich R. Douwes, MD

Friedrich R. Douwes, MD, is a medical doctor and Director of Klinik St. Georg, a world-renowned clinic in Bad Aibling, Germany, which specializes in the treatment of cancer, Lyme disease and other chronic health conditions, using conventional and complementary therapies. Dr. Douwes has treated cancer patients for over 40 years, and Lyme disease patients for over 16 years, since approximately the year 2000.

Dr. Douwes studied medicine in Germany and Switzerland and received his board certification in Internal Medicine in 1975 at the University Hospital Göttingen. He completed his fellowship in hematology and oncology at Hahnemann University in Philadelphia. Subsequently, he became the medical director of Sonnenberg Hospital, an oncology, hematology, immunology and oncological rehabilitation center, in Bad Sooden-Allendorf, Germany.

While at Sonnenberg Hospital, Dr. Douwes was dissatisfied with the outcomes that he saw with conventional cancer treatment, so he developed his own philosophy of integrative holistic medicine. Some hospitals, including the Veramed Hospitals in Brannenburg and Biomed Klinik in Bergzabern, Germany, now follow this model of medicine.

Dr. Douwes has continued to work actively and research new cancer therapies in addition to better treatments for Lyme disease and other chronic illnesses. He has become the go-to specialist for all kinds of hyperthermia treatment, including whole body, loco-regional and urethral prostate treatment protocols, and has successfully treated thousands of patients from all over the world, including many from Canada and the United States.

For many years, Dr. Douwes served as First Chairman of the charitable organization, Friends of Integrated Cancer Therapy. He is also President of the German Society for Oncology (DGO) and Founder of the German Society for Biological Cancer Control (GfBK) and Hyperthermia (DGHT).

Dr. Douwes organizes seminars and conferences for physicians and therapists, which focus on biological cancer treatments. In 2011, he organized the first International Congress for Complementary Oncology, an event that features a variety of international guest speakers who focus on integrative cancer treatment approaches.

Dr. Douwes is also a sought-after international lecturer at seminars and conferences. Numerous films about his work have been made, including Life with Cancer, which was an award-winning film project. Norwegian television has also broadcast a 45-minute film about his work with cancer patients and his work has also been featured on both German and international television.

In 2015, Dr. Douwes received a Lifetime Achievement Award from the Academy of Comprehensive Integrative Medicine (ACIM) “for his contributions to the advancement of the art and science of medicine, specifically as it relates to integrative oncology.”

Dr. Douwes has authored countless scientific papers, which have been published in German and international journals. His work has been featured in Biological Medicine, Internal Journal of Clinical Oncology, Alternative Medicine, Journal for Alternative Complementary Therapy, New England Journal of Medicine, The Lancet and Excerpta Medica. His work is also featured in several books.

What sets Dr. Douwes apart more than anything else is his warm and compassionate manner toward his patients. This, combined with his abundant knowledge about Lyme disease, cancer and other health conditions, makes him a unique person whom you will want on your side to overcome illness. To learn more about Dr. Douwes’ work and Klink St. Georg see: CancerClinicStGeorg.com.


Hyperthermia
Heat as a means of therapy has been known for a very long time. Even Hippocrates and the ancient Egyptians used heat therapy. Heat can cause considerable damage to living cells, hence the body can only survive for a short time with a temperature in excess of 42°C (107°F). However, the destructive force of heat is also a blessing. Used skillfully, it can help to treat cancer and tumors. Malignant growths can be controlled or may even recede as a result of targeted hyperthermia.

Hyperthermia is a non-invasive method of treatment, which on its own and in combination with traditional medicine and naturopathic-biological forms of treatment, is capable of bringing about a distinct improvement in the course of tumor diseases. Hyperthermia is also used, very successfully, in the aftercare or secondary cancer prevention. Especially metastasis and tumors that are inoperable or resistant to other treatments can be treated favorably.

Hyperthermia is one of the basic elements of the integrated cancer therapy concept of St. George Hospital. For many years now, St. George Hospital has worked intensively on researching and improving the hyperthermia therapy for the treatment of acute cancer and the after-care of cancer patients. It is considered one of the leading treatment centers in this field, world-wide.
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Oct 13, 2017 - 04:28pm PT
How To - Hyperthermia Treatment At Home
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUQ-lvnN7_8
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Oct 14, 2017 - 06:50pm PT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow53uy1qElI
Lyme Disease Exposed

Lyme disease is the fastest growing infectious disease on the planet. Lyme disease is curable if treated in the early stage of the illness. Without early detection and treatment Lyme disease becomes chronic where antibiotics are no longer effective. So why all the denial to diagnosis and treat it clinically?...
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 14, 2017 - 07:20pm PT
Mainly because there's much more money in sick people that don't typically die than healthy ones.

There is some promising serious research going on now through j. Hopkins and a few other deep pockets.

Same political thing happened with syphilis long ago (Also a spirochete that had 1000 different symptons). It was ignored for a very long time.
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Oct 15, 2017 - 06:57am PT
The plan with Cancers and Lyme is to heal half of the people and throw them back, the other half they get to keep. The people they throw back act as their disciples to bring more victims in. And I thank God for judgement day! You should NEVER GO TO A DOCTOR and take his advice UNLESS YOU KNOW MORE THEN HE Does.

How do you do that one may ask? The answer is you research and find out what works with key words like "cure" and "Hoax" and " testimony" etc. You research what all doctors are saying.

Someone asked:

"Mr. Perry,

The earth is flat

The Sun revolves around the earth

The galaxy revolves around the sun

The earth is only 4000 years old

9/11 was an inside job

Vaccines are a conspiracy

HIV was invented by the CIA

You shouldn't take antibiotics for Lyme disease

If someone tells you he believes the first 7 things are true, should you believe the 8th????"

I can answer that question.

The question you are really asking, is can I simply accept what everyone else believes, can I continue to learn as I always have through my schooling and expect to always and every time come to facts and the truth? The answer to this is obviously no. Why is this? Because this is not the way the world works Sir. Our understand is always evolving. This happens when you have an individual or groups of individuals who are willing to challenge excepted ideas. In the end a new idea may be discovered and accepted and a new idea is born! Or it may be that today, lets say through answering the Flat Earth theory, that new ideas about our own round earth theory come to light that no one has ever thought of before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNqNnUJVcVs So the flat earth theory does have its place and uses in the round earth theory, in challenging and confirming it or else disproving it. In essence what you are advocating is a flat earth theory of your own, of sorts. I hope you understand this. We do not completely understand what gravity is today, we have not arrived yet by any means. The correct answer is you study it, whatever it is, and do so completely, unbiasedly and yes seriously as much as is possible. Don't waste my time or yours. Allow your self to believe it if you have to, and then debate the idea with science and other people. And if you are careful you will come out of out with more truths and facts then you would have if there was no flat earth round earth debate. These things are not to be ignored, they are here for your benefit There is no reason to fear them, fear not, trust the scientific dialectic method.

Many ancient cultures subscribed to a flat Earth cosmography, including Greece until the classical period, the Bronze Age and Iron Age civilizations of the Near East until the Hellenistic period, India until the Gupta period (early centuries AD), and China until the 17th century. That paradigm was also typically held in the aboriginal cultures of the Americas, and the notion of a flat Earth domed by the firmament in the shape of an inverted bowl was common in pre-scientific societies.

How did this change in thinking come about Flat Earth Man? Was it through the study of and strictly adhering to the flat earth theory, this is what your are advocating. No, that is ridiculous. Someone needed to think outside the normal way of thinking here and pit their ideas against the norm. The fool will do this, or someone with someone with some missing marbles.

There may be some aspects of the flat earth theory which are correct. Kansas is said to be flatter then a pancake. So did you know that?

So what is the correct way to deal with these questions? Should we look at the speaker? Plato celebrated the notion of madness as an inspired state, a divine privilege enjoyed by poets, prophets, and lovers. So no, we can not conclude anything from looking at the person, it could be that we are looking for an easy way out or an ad hominem argument.

The answer is you have to deal with the argument, every argument. You have to be scholarly. If you are not willing to do that, well then you are in a state of ignorance. And since we all agree that our understanding is or should be evolving then nothing can be ignored if we want to stay on the cutting edge of science. It may be that we are now willing to be wrong for prides sake, how can we be wrong?, or it may be that we are not willing to chase down every argument. If that is the case we need to come to terms with facts and realize that what we have done is disqualify ourselves from any argument, and we are wrong every time. Knowledge is always learning, and when it is not, or when it refuses to do so it is no longer knowledge.
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Oct 17, 2017 - 06:27am PT
There were 5 days where there was no progress, it seemed things were leveling off. My back is in pain and my joints are sensitive and my legs do not work, can not walk fast.

So I took my head out of the tub and put my legs in and covered them with a towel. (The damn tub is too small.) And I brought my temperature up to 102-103 for an hour and a half. I am still waiting for my 300 dollar rectal thermometer, other methods are dangerously incriminate, so I need to keep it low. I made someone rub my back and I found out that the pain goes away after a while, interesting. And I reduced my herbs to the base recommendation with primarily the NOW brands. I am also adding pink Himalayan salt to my diet because I am sweating out 3-4 liters of toxins. And I am also not sitting in a chair all day anymore.

So now I think because of these changes today I feel some progress and better then I have all this time.

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 17, 2017 - 10:43am PT
Whatever may be the cause of your woes DJP... make sure you get enough regular sleep. Often overlooked and frequently disrupted by various maladies it's imperative for any kind of chance at recuperating.

The hyperthermia thing is interesting indeed. I was looking over some research articles on how it was used in conjunction with chemo for cancer with evident success. I'm not sure your hot baths with a $300 thermometer stuffed in your backside will suffice but the theory seems to have some merit.
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