mystery raptor over Yosemite Valley

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 41 - 59 of total 59 in this topic

<< First | < Previous | Show All | Next > | Last >>

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 15, 2007 - 07:33pm PT

looked at gyrfalcon, doesn't fit (and somewhat rare)..

JEM

Social climber

Oxnard, CA

Nov 15, 2007 - 08:38pm PT

I'll vote for the Peregrine. Here's a pic I googled with several shots of a Peregrine in flight. See what you think ...

JEM

ewto

Mountain climber

slOwHIO

Nov 15, 2007 - 08:40pm PT

Pterodactyl.

Risk

Mountain climber

Minkler, CA

Nov 15, 2007 - 09:09pm PT

I am certainly not an expert, but that looks like a peregrine to me. Here a picture of one from September 2007 at Torrey Pines:

EDIT: Now that I look at the picture again, one looks like a Golden Eagle (upper left photo), and the other a peregrine. I have seen Golden Eagle in the valley many times, way up high.

nita

climber

chica from chico

Nov 15, 2007 - 09:59pm PT

nita's man, andy responds,

TM, great pic. The background looks more Utah than San Diego but who's more southwest?

As with the evidence to support the re-emergence of the ivory bill, I say the photo can only be inconclusive. Ed states in this thread that all pics are from the same bird encounter. If you put a gun to my head, then, perigrine.

I'll cut and paste it to my chico audubon chat room. Unlike ST, it may be days before someone comments.

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2007 - 12:17am PT

the pictures are consistent with either a Rough-legged Hawk or a Peregrine Falcon, my reading of their flight characteristics would have me pick the Hawk...

but this is fun for a change on the ol' SuperTopo

there is only so much you can get from those pretty difficult photos...

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2007 - 02:32am PT

it was a pretty big bird, not as large as a Red Tail though... but larger than a falcon.

I had a look at another book at Gary's tonight at Thrash Thursday and the flight description sounded like a Rough-legged hawk...

falcons look long when they fly, these guys weren't long, they were hawk like... and they weren't zipping about like falcons...

Not a kestrel...

but you'd really have to go and watch for them (probably not around if a Rough-legged as they are migrating through to So America). I'll probably be up there again, if there Peregrines, they'll be around.

Debbie is the birder of the family, she'd like it more than I... I'm usually just trying to get the picture (not very successfully at that).

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Nov 16, 2007 - 04:49am PT

I'm going with a falcon for the one.

This spring, the WDFW raptor biologist I work with every year at Beacon was saying immature female falcons can be larger than many adults and that both immature male and femles can be quite light grey colored. This came up in the context of several discussions we had about whether they had successfully fledged this year or not. I did the majority of the monitoring and ended up with some very confusing data and he felt this immature female business factored into what I had been observing.

I'll pass these on to him as well, and then he's tied into a load of other raptor guys. You might also email it to someone over at the The Santa Cruz Predatory Bird Research Group(SCPBRG).

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2007 - 11:14am PT

I feel very odd being in the middle of this discussion! as I am not a birder, just the consort of a birder... and you all have taken it up as a real problem to solve.

The hawks we have seen around this cliff all did about the same thing this pair did: around late morning or noon, starting up from below working various thermals off the broad ledges, then using the domed cliff which compresses and channels the westerly wind (as the lower colder air pours down the Merced). The "S" against the cliff gaining altitude and then they're off to their business.

It didn't seem that this pair lived on this part of the cliff. It was a pair, and they were flying more hawk-like than falcon-like....

climber

Nov 16, 2007 - 12:16pm PT

Ed,
I posted Lee Aulman's response earlier, those birds most likely are juvenile peregrines. By the way, the females are normally much larger than the males. It is possible these are siblings and are still hanging out with each other rather than an actual 'pair.'

If you can see, no one has been speaking in absolutes here, since the pics are not that clear and we were not there. However, since you are not the 'birder,' perhaps you need to stop thinking in absolutes that these birds are not falcon-like. You are hearing, but you are not listening.

scuffy b

climber

The deck above the 5

Nov 16, 2007 - 01:13pm PT

Falcons fly in all the modes.
Peregrines spend a lot of time soaring.
Isn't it pretty early for Rough-legged to be showing up?

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2007 - 05:47pm PT

good point ec I agree, so in my mind that the setting is right for Peregrines... but other people whose opinion I also respect on this matter say not...

I am amazed at all the interest this generated, and I'm quite happy if these are falcons or hawks or whatever... the experience of being up on the rock and in an environment which brought Eric and me in such close association with these wonderful raptors transcends the absolute determination of their identity.

As I said, we can't resolve the id based solely on those pix, and my experience at raptor id is not reliable enough to base an id on my observations.

I've been happy with the ambiguity since the very first post when I didn't push a particular ID... thanks to all that have gotten so enthused on this. I hope you get a chance to be up there with them someday too. And I'm still interested in whatever information is provided.

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2007 - 05:55pm PT

scuffy, forgot to reply, they are arriving... check out the Golden Gate Raptor Observatory daily reports...

http://www.ggro.org/dailyhw06.html

wildone

climber

Where you want to be

Nov 17, 2007 - 01:07pm PT

Right now, I'm thinking buteo but it's hard to tell. We have red-shouldered hawks and prairie falcons right now in the park...
I think my favorite explanation was a preregrine wearing a down vest who took flying lessons from a gull, lol.
Do you remember if it would flap flap flap, then glide?

John Moosie

climber

Nov 17, 2007 - 02:28pm PT

"Could have stopped hith post number two."

And miss out on all this fun. Naw....I enjoyed learning a bit more about the birds in the park. Lots of people came out with things I had no idea about. Thats cool by me. I enjoy learning.

Thanks Ed for starting this.

hossjulia

Trad climber

Eastside

Nov 17, 2007 - 03:00pm PT

I've seen Kestrels that were so big I thought they were Peregrines untill I saw the coloring better. I've also seen Prarie Falcons that were kinda small, and again looked like Peregrines.
Red Tails frequently have me thinking they are immature Eagles.

My first thought was Peregrine, but who knows? Does it really matter? This has been a fun thread.

I saw the thread title and was hoping you saw a Condor!

nita

climber

chica from chico

Nov 17, 2007 - 04:47pm PT

Andy's friend, Phil Johnson, president of local chico audubon says "I am seeing dark wingpit like a Prairie Falcon. Seems way too light overall for Peregrine. Grainy photos. Gyrfalcon?"