How durable is the sandstone in Zion?

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
This thread has been locked
Messages 1 - 20 of total 68 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Nate Furman

climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 6, 2007 - 04:56pm PT
Hi all,

I've climbed in Zion a fair bit (touchstone, spaceshot, prodigal, moonlight, sheer lunacy, etc.) but probably not as much as many of y'all. I'm curious how durable these routes are. I've always been concerned about the trickle of sand that comes with each aid placement. Is the natural character of these routes changing quickly?

Curious for thoughts.
Cheers,
Nate
paganmonkeyboy

Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
Nov 6, 2007 - 04:58pm PT
Ron this one's got your name allll over it G...
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Nov 6, 2007 - 05:06pm PT
I smell something under the bridge,..
Internofchoice

Trad climber
NYC,NY
Nov 6, 2007 - 05:13pm PT
cough...troll...cough

oh sorry I had something in the back of my throat.
yo

climber
The Eye of the Snail
Nov 6, 2007 - 05:14pm PT
That Touchstone sure sounds like a stupid route.
paganmonkeyboy

Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
Nov 6, 2007 - 05:16pm PT
on the off chance this isn't a troll -

(disclaimer - I'm just a clueless n00b, but I have bugged some giants...)
Not Very - especially on the lower pitches of the heavier traveled routes. Take a look at the grooves where people have hauled, see also the placements that just get bigger and bigger...
and don't you dare hook on that shizzle...
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Nov 6, 2007 - 05:41pm PT
Clueless nOOb or super-troll?

You be the judge.
Internofchoice

Trad climber
NYC,NY
Nov 6, 2007 - 05:42pm PT
You know at first I thought it was just a troll, but I am starting to have second thoughts. Curiouser and curiouser.
yo

climber
The Eye of the Snail
Nov 6, 2007 - 05:46pm PT
Good times so far but no word yet on the origin of all that trickling sand.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Nov 6, 2007 - 05:47pm PT
I might believe it more if Nate emailed his phone # and convinced me, but he likely doesn't have the stones to actually post it here on the forum.

(Mine is 435 635 9900, but if I'm online its busy).
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Nov 6, 2007 - 06:21pm PT
Why would someone who lacked balls and only wanted to yank your chain post under their own name? Do you guys have some history that the casual observer here wouldn't know about?

If you click on the OP's name, you'll see that he apparently signed up to write a nice and substantial eulogy for a fallen friend and made one other post to say that he thought a topo was nice.

Much of what I 'know' about the wear and tear on Zion sandstone came from stuff folks wrote about it on the internet. Just b/c everyone here was born knowing everything doesn't mean it's not worth saying some things again for the next person considering taking up walls.
paganmonkeyboy

Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
Nov 6, 2007 - 06:32pm PT
"Clueless nOOb or super-troll?

You be the judge."

I prefer to be referred to as Das Uber-N00b...

Nate I'm not yankin yer chain I hope - I'm in SLC too - hit me up and we can go aid the peeler or something...
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Nov 6, 2007 - 06:41pm PT
Melissa, I'll grant that you have some valid points, but the troll potential is obvious as well.

Here is my short answer;
Zion sandstone is NOT very durable, and the problem is made far worse by innefficient and (often innocent) abuse, which will likely influence the NPS, once they get wind of it, to take highly restrictive action.
This in turn will set precedent affecting other areas.
The selfishness of individual members of the climbing community combined with the cumulative nature of the damage virtually guarantees this.
yo

climber
The Eye of the Snail
Nov 6, 2007 - 06:56pm PT
Now I feel like a prick. Not as bad as with Dodrill's grandma but still pretty bad.

AND I nailed last weekend...
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Nov 6, 2007 - 07:10pm PT
Hey Blinny,
whadisay?
crackfiend

climber
Nov 6, 2007 - 07:34pm PT
What are your thoughts on what we do or how we mitigate PitonRon? Obviously not nailing or camhooking on trade routes but it seems even these routes are getting damageg by clean climbing. I climbed spaceshot on friday and there are cam placements that seem like they are getting pretty blown out due to the traffic. Are we doomed and just trashing our routes to death? I tried to use some creative micronutting to avoid some of these flaring pods that cams seem to shave a little off of every time they are placed and weighted. It would love to hear your thoughts on this.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Nov 6, 2007 - 07:44pm PT
Fair question Crackhead,

you aren't likely to find my answers very palatable though;

1) screening
2) impact assessment fees
3) permit raffles
4) completion bonds
5) mandatory fixed anchors (in some cases nuts)
6) bivy permit bans
7-9) miscelaneous song and dances
crackfiend

climber
Nov 6, 2007 - 07:58pm PT
No I live outside the park and climb here a ton and realize the implications of what these routes will be like in 5-10 years with the current traffic.

Interesting ideas... screening, you gotta learn the skills somewhere else before you come here

what do you mean by completion bonds and assesment fees? paying money for damage that you will do?

also what do you mean by banning bivy permits?
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Nov 6, 2007 - 08:19pm PT
Our finest routes don't need to be used by people who won't take the time to acquire the skills requisite for best preserving them.

Because the first pitch takes the most wear and the last the least we need to create incentive not to bail (save for sudden wet conditions).
The most serious forms of impact should require the highest fees. That encourages preservation while preserving freedom of expression/climbing.

No permission to drag items up the walls subject to drag trails. If you are too slow to do the trades in a day UP YOUR SKILLS!
yo

climber
The Eye of the Snail
Nov 6, 2007 - 08:33pm PT
How much for Latitudes?

Seriously.

If I was in charge of the fee mechanism (and I should be) the fee for Touchstone/Spaceshot/Prodigal/Moonlight would be $500. Any other route free.

Again seriously.
Messages 1 - 20 of total 68 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta