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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 24, 2007 - 11:00pm PT
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bvbv wrote: "imagine a baseball forum where you got to trade thoughts with dimaggio? never happen."
...exactly. Drunk or not, bvb, you are right on. That is exactly the thing that makesSupertopo so super.
Can anyone thing of even one other place where the S/Topo Experience is replicated?
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 24, 2007 - 11:02pm PT
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I can name a million of them
But you will knott believe even one of them ......
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 24, 2007 - 11:05pm PT
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a million, you say?
How about just the one?
Werner....some day I hope to get to meet you in 3-d.
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 25, 2007 - 05:25am PT
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I think Super 8 is just fine.
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Looney
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Jul 25, 2007 - 09:07am PT
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Dang. I was ready and waiting for a group hug.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jul 25, 2007 - 09:19am PT
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Hey Crimpy, do you know what time it is? Punch the snooze button, forcryingoutloud.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 25, 2007 - 02:28pm PT
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Bvb’s post has so much in it that is real, I have to say something,
Early on in climbing I had to ask myself, "What is truly important here?" I got a really weird answer. Normal life causes people to put on a cloak, if you will, that helps them move through their daily tasks with other people, and to do it with less exposure. Some even use the cloak to cover an agenda, here and there. Nasty…. All of that gets stripped away as soon as one’s ass is hung out somewhere up there on million year old rock. What you see there is pretty close to what you got. Mind you, I saw some stuff up there I did not particularly like. When younger my immediate response was to make myself scarce. Out the back, Jack. Then all hell broke loose. I noticed that despite all the things I did not like about myself, the near "perfect" people were going out of their way to be kind to me. For no reason at all. I was in serious trouble. Those perfect people were not choosing to go out the back.
Climbing has always been changing and it will continue to change. I do hope it retains the ability to strip away the cloaks we draw over ourselves.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 25, 2007 - 02:33pm PT
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Good stuff.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Jul 25, 2007 - 02:47pm PT
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Great post BVB. And who better to say it than "An American Legend, YO!"
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jul 25, 2007 - 03:02pm PT
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imagine a baseball forum where you got to trade thoughts with dimaggio? never happen.
but climbers, as a rule, are far more humble, far more down-to-earth.
You want an example? In the mid-80s I was asked to take over as editor of the Canadian Alpine Journal. I'd been climbing for ten or twelve years, mostly at Squamish, had put up a couple of routes, and knew a few of the local hardguys/girls but was in no way anything more than just another anonymous climber.
But to get the CAJ back on track (it had become a kind of West Coast Mountain Rambling Journal) I had to go to Calgary and start knocking on the doors of the Famous Rockies Climbers. I thought they'd all just tell me to f*ck off, but every single one of them -- without exception -- was warm, friendly, and welcoming. These guys, at that time, were some of the hardest alpine climbers in the world, but their attitude seemed to be "Hey, as long as you love to climb, you're one of us."
Since then, I've seen the same reaction over and over. When the Joe DiMaggios/Michael Jordans of the climbing world see some gumby stuggling on a 5.easy chosspile, or even blocking their path, what they do is shout encouragement and helpful advice.
I'm sure there are exceptions, and I'm sure some of you will be able to dredge up an example of Mr/Ms Hardguy being rude to some Fred, but to a degree far greater than any other area of life that I know of, climbers are willing to make room for the newguy at the campfire.
David
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 26, 2007 - 11:02am PT
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Here is a fun story.
My old friend and Black Canyon climbing partner Tom Pulaski came to Boulder to enroll his son in college at CU. We all got together and decided to go to the BRC (rock gym) for some fun. I was running late as motivating 3 kids is akin to herding kittens. When I finally got to the gym there was Tom with a sheepish grin standing in a corner. He looks right at me and says "I flunked my belay test". I couldn't help myself and burst out laughing almost hysterically.
You see the irony is that Tom has decades of extreme experience on routes that would wither the ball sack of most of us. The kid who administered the test had probably been climbing indoors for 2 years. I would trust Tom with my life on any route. Where as I would NOT trust the kid to belay me on a top rope.
I have seen the lame and lazy belay techniques of gym rats and it makes me shudder.
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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Jul 26, 2007 - 01:09pm PT
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Pretty funny story about the Gym there.
I had a similar experience last Fall when my wife and I and oldest son joined. I barely past the test and my companions failed pretty bad which was a reflection on me because I was the one who was suppose to have shown them the ropes. My wife an old school hip belayer has caught a couple of hellaish falls of mine with gear pulling and all but still has a hard time with the ATC concept. We all worked through it but the more I watched our new learned technique the more flaws I saw in it. So a few months go by and she gets a lecture I can hear while I’m up on top of something. Seems she had a lazy break hand and wouldn’t move it like the rest of the people in the gym (except the instructors who basically did it the same) after all that I tell her I would prefer her to belay me than any one else there. You see she really pays attention and has a sixth sense about when I may really the belay which now a days is quite a bit. I’m hoping my son gets that status soon since he’s leading the crux pitches but tends to leave me with the run out ones. I will use the ATC but I’m also quick to use a hip belay with directional’s if I’m bringing up someone quick.
In all comes back around, I get to show these guys how to put Nuts in, they act like it’s a lost art.
Mike
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 26, 2007 - 01:11pm PT
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I think what stands out for me about our tribe is the generosity and decency of the elders. As a person who barely made it into the category (as someone recently posted) of "minor luminary," I am eternally grateful for the attention and friendship lavished on me, pretty much a nobody, by many of the major players of my time.
I had the astonishing good fortune to climb, boulder, and/or hang out with my betters, a minor-league player welcomed by the stars of the big leagues: Jim McCarthy, Dick Williams, Art Gran, Hans Kraus, Fritz Wiessner, Matt Hale, Dave Roberts, John Stannard, Rich Romano, Yvon Chouinard, Royal Robbings, Chuck Pratt, Bob Kamps, Tom Higgins, John Gill, Pat Ament, Chris Bonnington, Don Whillans, Doug Scott, Peter Haan, Mark Klemens, Barry Bates, JIm Bridwell, Henry Barber, Steve Wunsch, and my cragging partner of more than 20 years, John Bragg. I don't think there is any other activity in which a minor luminary would have had the chance to hang with the gods.
I remember going to Fontainbleau in 1970 and almost immediately being taken under the wing of the locals, being shown all the cool problems, being deluged with beta to make sure I got up them, and being taken to secret "refuges" carved out under giant boulders deep in the forest.
I remember being waved off a winding dirt road in the Bregalia by Italian climbers who were picnicing. Seeing the climbing gear in the window and the superimposed American flag and peace sign on the bumper, they invited us to join them and share their feast.
I remember Pat Ament teaching me offwidth technique (my subsequent failure to get any good at it is not his fault) and showing me how to anchor with clove hitches. I remember Chuck Pratt taking me aside and telling me that he thought I should be ready for several pitches of 5.9 on the Salathe-Steck, regardless of the fact that Roper had downgraded almost all of them to 5.8 in his guidebook. I remember Dick Williams chastising me for using too little protection on relatively easy ground. I remember Jim McCathy slapping on a pair of prussiks and then hand-over-handing up stuck rappel ropes, with occasional pauses to move up the prussiks, in the midst of a horrendous lightning storm in the Wind Rivers.
I remember the yearly meetings of the Needles Society, as Bob and Bonnie Kamps, John and Lora Gill, and I, joined by others (Mark and Beverly Powell, Dave Rearick) convened, like magic, from the four quadrants of the compass and with no explicit prearrangement, every August, in the Oreville Campground between Custer and Hill City.
I remember Glenn Exum sheparding a wide-eyed kid just out of middle school up the Exum Ridge of the Grand, and Barry Corbet sheparding a year older but even more wide-eyed kid up the Southwest Ridge of Symmetry Spire. Who knew that such things were possible for the human body, the human spirit?
These memories, and hundreds of others over a period that is approaching fifty years, remind me that climbers have always been part of a virtual network, long before the internet gave it a technological life. And when I think of the accumulated kindness I've been privileged to bask in, the occasional nastiness transmitted by the electronic incarnation of the climbing network seems so minor; a mere blip on a screen flooded with good will.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2007 - 01:38pm PT
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Rich is being some what modest. My first visit to the Gunks was in the mid-70's. I drove up from Philly for a few days as my wife and I were visiting family in the area.
My first contact was with Kevin Bein at the Gay 90's. I heard him talking to a table about climbing. I asked him he if knew about the climbing and he said yes. Alway outgoing and friendly...Kevin asked me where I was from and I said New Mexico (at the time) and asked me if I had anyone to climb with. I said no. He told me to meet him at the Uberfall at 2pm and that started a friendship that had/has lasted til this day. Not knowing Kevin...I soon found out what a great talent he was. Small compared to the size of his heart. Kevin was (by far) one of the most wonderful people I have the pleasure of knowing.
Walking down the Carriage road one day with Kevin he stop to talk to some way strong looking fellow who was bouldering. The guy had dark hair, a beard and had his shirt off... muscles were popping out everywhere. After a little chit chat we continue on... I asked Kevin who the guy was and he say it was Rich Goldstone...one of the best boulderers in the country and one of the best climbers at the Gunks.
He was right!
Rich...how is Bragg doing? Tell him hi for me.
I think I will be in the Gunks in Oct for a little get together. Do you know about it??
Hope you are well...Later, Bob
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 26, 2007 - 03:11pm PT
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My friendship with Kevin Bein, the Mayor of the Gunks, goes back to the time he was in high-school and I was in college. Kevin seemed indestructible. During those early days, he visited me at my parent's apartment, and we soon embarked on a feats of strength contest, which he won only because he destroyed the apparatus, ripping off my door jam and plummeting to the floor in a cloud of plaster dust and wood splinters. Kevin was unhurt. My parents were not amused.
Some years later, we were at it again. This time it was the triple front lever. McCarthy is on top; he does a front lever on the rings at the West Side "Y" in NYC. I do a front lever on McCarthy's shoulders, and Kevin does a front lever on my shoulders. At this point, Mac is holding up close to 400 lbs of prime beef, and not unsurprisingly, he suffers a sudden loss of contact with the rings. The assembled circus plummets to the mat (maintaining, of course, perfect form all the way down) with Kevin on the bottom. Kevin is unhurt. The primarily gay clientele of the gym takes one look and figures we were the cutting edge of rough trade sex. For weeks we get various obscene invitations from our fellow gym users.
A few months later, armed with the knowledge that McCarthy can't hold the three of us when hanging from rings, we decide to perform the feat at a Vulgarian party with the rings replaced by a door jamb at the top of a flight of stairs. Vulgarian parties being what they were, we had all ingested varying amounts of judgement-distorting substances, but we also knew that the indestructible Kevin Bein, as the guy on the bottom, had our backs. Quite literally.
Well, you know what happened. We barely have the triple lever going for a second or two when McCarthy blows off the door jam and the three of us ride Kevin down the flight of stairs to an ignominious pile-up at the bottom. Kevin is unhurt. Vulgarian applause is sustained. Distorted judgement notwithstanding, we decline all exhortations for an encore.
As many of you know, this ongoing story does not have a happy ending. Human life, even the kind that burns in the most indestructible of us, is in reality fragile. Kevin was killed on the Matterhorn when the anchor he was rappelling from pulled. His untimely death left a hole in our hearts that has never completely scarred over.
Sometimes, bouldering by myself in the Gunks, I would fall and found myself magically spotted. Kevin had quietly walked up the carriage road, stepped forward, and caught me. All these years later, I sometimes momentarily feel, just for a fleeting instant, the light touch of a hand in the small of my back, and as a swirl of wind stirs up the fall leaves, I think of Kevin.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 26, 2007 - 03:29pm PT
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Bob,
Didn't see your questions.
Bragg is fine. We are growing old together. I am winning.
Haven't heard anything about a get-together. Keep me informed.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2007 - 03:40pm PT
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Rich...here is good picture of Kevin, me and Elliot at the Uberfall sometime in 1980.
Always smiling.
I really miss him.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 26, 2007 - 03:46pm PT
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I remember Kevin Bein. He couldn't lead anymore when I met him due to some psychological fear of falling or some such. He top roped everything.
He was an extremely generous and wonderful nice man. He had thin girlfriend or was he married back then, ...... can't remember.
I did not know he died on the Matterhorn.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2007 - 03:49pm PT
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Werner...Kevin took a bad fall and also had a problem with seizures...He recovered from both and was leading 5.12's in the late 70's and early 80's.
That was his wife Barbara...the first woman to lead 5.12.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 26, 2007 - 03:51pm PT
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And in the background in Bob's photo is, I think, then ranger now guidebook author Todd Swain.
Here is a picture I have posted before of Kevin in action on Matinee, in the early days before nuts.
Note the helmet; certainly a very uncommon thing for an American rock-climber in the sixties. Some people think he wore that forty-pound tea kettle in order to build up his neck muscles. This is false. Kevin had taken a few ground falls in the Gunks, landing on his head at least twice. The Mohonk Preserve had become concerned about the ecological damage the ground was suffering from Kevin's skull, so, in a conciliatory gesture, Kevin took to wearing a helmet in order to soften the impact on local vegetation.
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