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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 10, 2007 - 11:51am PT
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How lucky are we to have the likes of Jello, Pat Ament, Werner, Bachar, Maysho, Chiloe, John Stannard, Doug Robinson, Rich A, Tarbuster, Piton Ron, The Warbler, Largo, Blinny and the real Blinny, Roger B, Karl B, Raydog, Rmuir, Jerry D, Mimi, Peter Haan, Hankster, Philo, Jaybro, BVB, Russ, Todd G and the host of all the other great climbers/folks that bless this spot with their words.
I just want to say thanks.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 10, 2007 - 12:07pm PT
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It is quite a treat...lots of great stories, pics, and advice.
Thanks guys!
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Jul 10, 2007 - 12:30pm PT
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That's what drew me here. Ambled by 3-4 years ago, a lurker with no expectations except maybe spray. Some of that for sure, but...what's this? I know these guys! This is my campfire. Squat in the dirt, crack a cold one and listen up! And more. People I've met, or never quite met. Climbers I revere, climbers I'm in awe of. They're here too.
Yep, it's amazing. History that breathes, is offhanded, overstates, drifts into spray, gets called down, reconsiders, recants, surprises, moves on to other topics.
And not just history but ongoing hot questions. Like, how should you climb a mountain?
And the thread remains. On a server somewhere, the itty-bitty digital tracks of our hopes and dreams.
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10b4me
climber
bitd
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Jul 10, 2007 - 12:32pm PT
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could not have said it better myself Bob.
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 10, 2007 - 01:36pm PT
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Gratitude is one of those virtues that seems to be in large part lost in our modern world. It's good to see it in a few of the finer spirits of climbing. Thanks, Bob.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Jul 10, 2007 - 01:37pm PT
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a number of those listed have or will be attending sushifest. that's a big reason why I bust my butt to make this party happen - it really is an honor.
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scuffy b
climber
Bates Creek
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Jul 10, 2007 - 01:51pm PT
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I believe it was Roger Breedlove who coined the term Virtual
Campfire to describe this forum. For a while he seemed to be one of the main voices of "reason" and politeness here.
He is often first to spot and welcome a newly arrived personage
from the past.
Thanks, All
Apologies to Melissa, probably rolling her eyes.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 10, 2007 - 02:43pm PT
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Well I for one would like to know whats up with the Jims.
Yeah, thats right. Donini and Bird have both shown up here briefly and then wandered off.
Who do they think they are?!!
Oh yeah.
Thats right.
We all KNOW who they are!
Wassamatta? Campfire too smoky? lol
(ah forget it, they're off freebasing geritol or something,...)
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jul 10, 2007 - 02:49pm PT
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Living Fossils here at Supertopo.
Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!
Always great fun.
Cheers,
Pete [not quite a fossil, but close]
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Dragon with Matches
climber
Bamboo Grove
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Jul 10, 2007 - 03:11pm PT
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Largo too.
plenty of others.
it's a good fire.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 10, 2007 - 03:39pm PT
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And there are always plenty of cynics to keep us laughing.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 10, 2007 - 03:48pm PT
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Scuf and I had this conversation a couple of nights ago,@8k', while batting back smoke from a real campfire, nursing wounds from FA attempts, with background music provided by automatic weapons fire, no place quite like this. Amazing, all in all.
Thanks, weak wrist, for providing some punctuation and helping to make the point!
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 10, 2007 - 03:52pm PT
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Jaybro wrote: Thanks, weak wrist, for providing some punctuation and helping to make the point!
Classic...LOL
Thanks Jay!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 10, 2007 - 04:09pm PT
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Damnit Jaybro perverted monikers is MY turf!
(I'll let you go this time because I might want to steal it from you.)
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 10, 2007 - 04:18pm PT
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So shoot me, ron, hehe.
Have fun at that second sf that it looks like I am destined to miss!
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djoana
Big Wall climber
Ukraine, Kuiv
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Jul 10, 2007 - 04:19pm PT
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:))))
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nita
climber
chico ca
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Jul 10, 2007 - 04:22pm PT
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Bob d', That list should also have , Mark(Chappy)Chapman's , Ken(Chicken Skinner)Yager, and Mike Graham - names added.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 10, 2007 - 04:23pm PT
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Not able to go at this time, but at least I went to one.
You better not miss the fall, or we're gonna do something creative...
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 10, 2007 - 05:05pm PT
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Living History?
Dead folks don't post.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 10, 2007 - 05:10pm PT
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Werner,
how can you be sure,.....
there could be a conspiracy!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 10, 2007 - 05:14pm PT
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"If I have seen further, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants" - attributed (more or less) to Bernard of Chartres (12th century) and Isaac Newton.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" - Georges Santayana.
Perhaps I should also post this to the retrobolting thread.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Jul 10, 2007 - 05:22pm PT
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Hey Caylor,
Good to make your acquaintance here. Nice piece in R&I. Got my attention, anyway. And not just because you were pumping Tiffany in the opening spread.
What really got me going was the description of that day on Southern Belle. Sickening crash, man. One of the all-time worst short of decking. Having actually decked myself (much shorter drop, 40' but onto solid slab), and broken my back, and crawled back whimpering and sniveling onto the stone, and found myself at first uncontrollably backing off of 5.8 a few measly feet above a bomber bolt, I can relate somewhat to the sickening reality of the 120' pitch you took. My condolences. And good on you for pulling it back together to venture again into the realm of the R and the X.
Anyway, I've become a bit obsessed with Southern Belle. It's so bad ass, and is the high water mark on an outrageous and underappreciated wall. The only other nearby line with free climbing is the unrepeated Karma, with old 1/4" bolts and reputedly a rope-slicer edge on the Yardarm dike.
Your story surfaced at, for me, the perfect time. I feel like a virtual tourist in an X-rated landscape. So I am way pleased to see you show up here. Glad you're back on the stone and hitting it hard.
Cheers,
Doug
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jul 10, 2007 - 05:25pm PT
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weschrist said "Wow, old people who climbed on rocks back in the muthafukin day... and now spray embellished accounts of their experiences between meager attempts to rekindle their youthful drive by searching for internet porn.
I feel so honored to be sitting on the other end of this network of tubes connecting us.
Please share your political views with us all. I mean, if you were able to do 11c X in EB's, surely you know everything there is to know about the way the world works. "
yeah, some of em have been at it since before the milkman knocked your mama up.
course, 11c aint all that hard when you project it and the bolts are 4 feet apart so i can see you arent impressed. at one point in time climbing really meant going up. not starting on top with a power drill.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 10, 2007 - 05:28pm PT
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What name does the milkman post under?
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nita
climber
chico ca
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Jul 10, 2007 - 05:36pm PT
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Good Post D.M.T. ;-)
Once on top of, Mt.Star King,we found this little paper register -in a rusty tin can. It had less than twelve names...One of the names was, Salathe......I thought that was soooo cool!
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 10, 2007 - 05:42pm PT
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I am one of those felt I was a "part" of something much larger when I made my first climbing attempt. I relish the history;
Robbin's "Nutcraft" reads were my first books purchased, even though I could have gone down to B & Noble and got any one of the newer how-to's. When I noticed "Women on High," a book detailing the earliest climbs made by women, I needed to have it.
Supertopo is, to me, a link in that continuum. I am lucky to have been just sure enough of myself that I wasn't afraid to post here, and because of that, I have talked to and met, and even climbed with, some of those who have written, or been written about, as part of the history.
The golden guys of Supertopo are truly Supermen!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 10, 2007 - 05:45pm PT
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Yeah, we started by improvising diaper slings and now wear oversize harnesses to accomodate the Depends...
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 10, 2007 - 05:51pm PT
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No kidding, what a great place this is!
Even George Meyers has stopped in and gosh knows, so many of us in total.
Supertopo is the super-charged roll call old folks home we never really expected to happen. As well, new stuff gets hatched to boot: in the last year I've been so pleased to get hooked up through The Taco to a Stonemaster's reunion, (where I saw 60 friends who I'd rambled about with every weekend for years, many years ago), The Sushifest, The Mt Woodson Shindig, a trip to North Conway to climb with Chiloe and hook ups with new partners right here at home, such as Stich, Goatboy, Eeyonkee...
It just keeps rolling out.
Supertopo is not a gang, club, or religion, it is a place, mightily peopled with hilarious, insightful, generous ropemates.
(...and the odd Troll)
Thanks everyone for contributing to the party.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jul 10, 2007 - 06:04pm PT
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It's a fun party to be part of.
If I'd a-known the old days were history, I woulda took a lot more photos.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jul 10, 2007 - 07:30pm PT
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weschrist, "i fart in your general direction...."
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 10, 2007 - 07:38pm PT
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"I piss on you from a considerable height."
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 10, 2007 - 07:40pm PT
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"Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries."
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 10, 2007 - 07:49pm PT
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"May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits"
WC has tried to troll us away from the thread's original purpose. He isn't doing so well, though has earned a giggle or two. I understand that in fact he has autographed copies of every book about climbing in the U.S. published before 1980, signed by the author. He can quote verbatim from Basic Rockcraft, from memory. He prefers the carabiner brake, because there's more redundancy. His favourite bathroom reading is Freedom of the Hills. He peels off the tape at the climbing gym, to preserve some of the spirit of adventure. When he first went to the Valley, he prostrated himself before El Capitan, touched his head to the ground, and said "I am not worthy". His dog is named Royal, and his cat Yvon.
One thing he has learned from the crinklies, is how to S***Talk.
Ain't climbing sociology great?
Regardless, SuperTopo is a great community, carrying on the traditions of climbing. If WC and others feel they have to post a bit of graffiti now and then, no skin off my nose.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jul 10, 2007 - 07:50pm PT
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"Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries."
I wipe my bottom on your mother's cat!
More reasons to love the Taco.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 10, 2007 - 08:05pm PT
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LOL, Hahahahaha
Wes you at it again, you rascal.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jul 10, 2007 - 08:07pm PT
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i do not like farting into the wind....
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 10, 2007 - 08:11pm PT
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"no giggling while discussing climbing legends. This is serious sh#t. No room for humor here. Old people on the verge of death shouldn't be taking their accomplishments lightly"
Actually, you're (more or less) talking WITH climbing legends. (Not including me.) Half a dozen or more have posted to this thread.
Just because you can get killed climbing is no good reason to take it seriously. We live in a climbing-optional world.
All climbers, young and old, are on the verge of death. You too.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 10, 2007 - 08:20pm PT
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Doesn't do you any good when your belayer is one of our guys,...
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 10, 2007 - 08:22pm PT
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There is a long list of climbers, some legends, who have failed to put on their harness or tie in properly, and have gotten hurt or killed as a result. Even while "sport" climbing. Likewise communication screw ups have killed a fair number. All this on supposedly safe bolted routes.
Given the opportunities for subjective error, it is scary that some think that climbing of any kind can ever be safe. Safer, yes. Safe, no.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 10, 2007 - 08:25pm PT
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Didn't Patey define the "crux" as where everyone unties to watch Wes?
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Larry
Trad climber
Bisbee
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Jul 10, 2007 - 08:35pm PT
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Let us not forget one of the sanest posters ever (and former Vulgarian??) rgold.
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Jul 10, 2007 - 08:44pm PT
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It's always nice to have this virtual campfire to go to...thanks all!
The smoke and farts never seem to bother me either... cheers, jb
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 10, 2007 - 09:14pm PT
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How could I have forgotten Rgold. One of my heroes from my Gunks days.
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J. Werlin
climber
Cedaredge
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Jul 10, 2007 - 09:21pm PT
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I'm just thinking of a couple more names to add to the list--from the "underground" category: Watusi, and Dick Cilley (Leroy?)
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 10, 2007 - 09:28pm PT
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Ya no doubt those 2 guys are sweethearts.
But back to that Weschrist stuff: shoot ya'll are killin' me wit dat stuff!
I can't count the hours I've spent here, laughing myself silly with you people.
Huh, nyah, one time BVB posted up some bit of tweak and jetisoned it my way, dude had me doubled over in laughter for 10 straight minutes, my wife didn't know whether to throw a bucket of water over my head or call the paramedics...
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jul 10, 2007 - 09:46pm PT
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Didn't Patey define the "crux" as where everyone unties to watch Wes? --Piton Ron
I think he said that right before rapping off the end of his rope on the Old Man of Hoy. That said, I think Patey would have enjoyed all the piss-taking on this site.
And I certainly enjoy the internet equivalent of walking in the footsteps of giants while on this site. 21 years climbing makes me an oldster among most of the folks I hang with, but I'm a babe around here.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 10, 2007 - 10:11pm PT
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Alas, of all things the good scottish doctor took the big biff off the Maiden, another stack, and twas not the crux but rather he became disconnected from his figure 8 as he backed over the edge.
Once rapping a fixed line at the end of a long day my partner pointed to my figure 8 which was barely being held by the hook of the gate of the locking biner, "Hey man, you almost pulled a Patey!"
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Jul 10, 2007 - 11:28pm PT
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Tim Shinhoffen, my manager, told me an interesting story today about Bottles. I had brought up that I climbed Flower of High Rank last weekend, and it got him talking about Robs Muir, which indefinitely ends in something about a game called bottles. Needless to say, this invoked words such as "i think he cheated," "he was 6'6" and 95 pounds" and "Houdini would be proud."
One thing that I gather the most is that the community seems to be a lot less freindly in and out of Camp 4, Hidden Valley and lunch rock these days. Maybe its the lack of all the hippy lettuce and LSD, but these stories seem almost like in the days of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round.
I've never played bottles, but if i walk up to you in 2 weeks in the valley with a bottle stuck in my finger, try not to interpret it as some kind of prison lingo. I'm middle heavy, i think i might win a game or 2..
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 11, 2007 - 12:14am PT
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It is a cultural thing... the weschrists perhaps find the whole web thing rather banal. But many of the people posting here haven't seen or heard from one an other for a very long time... longer than some of the youngin's have been living.
So perhaps those of you who became aware of the world in the last 10 years may not understand that there was a time when such a meeting was impossible, a time without a web, sh#t, a time without indoor climbing gyms.
It was a time when meeting meant actually meeting, not just sitting where ever you are and typing on your computer. And in that time, there was precious little actual meeting going on. For decades, in fact.
I guess the good news is weschrist actually reads the thread, so he must be interested in it to some level, inspite of his display of bored youth. Many people posting are still awed by the fact that there is a community which has found itself again. And though that community may not be physically together, the together that is possible is better than nothing.
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Jul 11, 2007 - 12:21am PT
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more awed that someone like me can peek in and say "hi" :D
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 11, 2007 - 12:30am PT
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Well put Ed.
But well before the www climbing had one of the few true "world" communities and I can remember plenty of times in the seventies when some people I knew would run into someone else I knew who would travel 8,000 miles only to run into them again.
I've had partners from more than twice as many countries I've visited sometimes doing long routes with only a few dozen words in common.
Climbing calls of course!
The computer just means we can sit on our fattening arses and have more meetings than ever.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 11, 2007 - 12:55am PT
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Also note, that Bobby d' is too modest to put his own name on that list, where it, of course, belongs.
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Jul 11, 2007 - 01:00am PT
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Bob d' is one of our prized rocks. He's been there, done that. Always contributing.
Thanks, Bob.
-Jeff
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crřtch
climber
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Jul 11, 2007 - 01:26am PT
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Lots of history here for us youngins to enjoy. Chris, I hope this server is backed up offsite so that we never lose some of the gems that have been posted here.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jul 11, 2007 - 01:44am PT
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...How could I have forgotten Rgold. One of my heroes from my Gunks days...
Not too surprising. You seem to have forgotten a number of people. Haha.
Curt
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 11, 2007 - 01:49am PT
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Its great having so many fine folks on Supertopo, getting acquainted and reacquainted. Some classic stories are shared and saved for the future. We have good time ands thoughtful exchanges.
I think in the future we'll find that we've formed a powerful network that can support us all in any time of uncertainty, local crisis, or in many unknown circumstances that might arrive. Just like it's good to know your neighbors, it's good to have friends who have been through the wringer known as rockclimbing.
peace
Karl
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 11, 2007 - 12:44pm PT
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Weakwrist trolls as well as he spells.
"Boldering"?"
(I mean I can understand it if you miss the spelling on a NONclimbing word but...)
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Jul 11, 2007 - 01:23pm PT
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Gimme a few Bob D', I got some scans for yer other thread. ;?
On the OP, well said...I love hoops but I'll never meet Jordan. Climb enuf and you may well run into our Jordans...mebbe even share a "care".
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Jul 11, 2007 - 08:53pm PT
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Seems like you take yourself pretty seriously.
Ken
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2007 - 09:00pm PT
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Wescrist...you just don't get it. It not about burning someone off.
This thread is about simple respect and the chance to hear/read about the history of climbing from the folks who were there.This in a way is a running history book, a place to record, to tell what happened and who did it. I think it is just wonderful.
You need to spend more time on Boldering (sic).com and less time here.
As for getting over yourself...there is only one person on this thread that needs to do that...and that would be you.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 11, 2007 - 09:04pm PT
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You're on the east side? I suspect there is no shortage of folks twice your age over there you couldn't begin to keep up with on your best day. And knowing when respect has [already] been earned and showing some - in person or online - is yet another competency you appear to be way behind on grasping. It's a clear sign you'll likely not end up 'climbing' a fraction as long as most folks mentioned in the thread. I'm guessing you'll be dissing folks in a kitesurfing forum before the decades out - maybe sooner if you encounter a runout or have to place gear.
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cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
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Jul 11, 2007 - 09:15pm PT
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Wescrist makes wrycracks. Hats off to all you living legends; this forum is priceless.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jul 11, 2007 - 10:39pm PT
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I really hate to "out" anyone here, but weschrist is...
1) A really nice guy.
2) A hell of a strong climber.
and
3) A most excellent troll.
Curt
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 11, 2007 - 10:40pm PT
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Yes, this Forum is priceless and Trolls be here!
You know you can save threads to your hard drive, then burn them to CD, which is vastly superior to bookmarking them, because it freezes the thread and places it in your hot little hands.
Meanwhile, here's a thread which needs some refreshing:
It's the "Super Taco Hall of Fame", smartly started by Mick K:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=262946&msg=269448#msg269448
This was started before most Jello Majik, Oli musings, DR writings or numerous other super neato stuff showed up.
So let's get to work and resume the catalogue of gems eh?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 11, 2007 - 10:59pm PT
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yeah, sorry 'bout this wes, but since you were my main climbing partner for five years in SLC i'm gonna have to break the news that you are not a big fat dicksmoker wierdo.
a master troller, yes, cackling like an old lady behind the keys of your government computer as you bait another hook while on the taxpayer's dime, but my daughter calls you "uncle wessie", so that's that.
you're done, boy. fini.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 11, 2007 - 11:01pm PT
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Curt,
hope Aaron is doing OK in Iraq.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2007 - 11:13pm PT
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Amazing what some people will do for attention. Trolling...that's so yesterday.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jul 11, 2007 - 11:17pm PT
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Curt,
hope Aaron is doing OK in Iraq.
No sh#t? I didn't even know that Aaron deployed to Iraq. Would you mind PM-ing me the details?
Curt
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 11, 2007 - 11:43pm PT
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Wow, out of all the folks on this thread, look who's talking themselves up.
Me on the other hand...I'm just happy to say I have a little fun doing what I love:
(oops, wrong photo...)
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 12, 2007 - 01:24am PT
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So you're basically a bored online slag and shag freak - cool, as losers go (and regardless who your friends here are...).
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Jul 12, 2007 - 01:41am PT
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Really, wes, it's obvious that you're trolling. That's why I get mad at myself when I can't help but respond. Still, trolling is a loser's game, generally. I could do it all day and get nothing out of it for myself or any of the trollee's I manage to hook.
You've made no real contribution here, as far as I can tell.
Hope to meet up with you someday, so we can laugh about all this internet bs.
-UnenlightenedByWesJello
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 12, 2007 - 02:07am PT
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While I'm not really going to accept the idea that Weakwrist has actually been climbing (seen others do it?) before, still, he has proven beyond a doubt that he IS an azhole, so I guess, he succeded.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 12, 2007 - 09:26am PT
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....welllll....tell me, you guys:
Who amongst you, sitting round a campfire back in the day, when a stranger came up and invited themselves to the party and began asking locations, partners, beta or whatever, hasn't pretended other than what they actually were? "Climbing? Nooo....I don't think there's much climbing round here, other than(the obvious roadside chosspile that blocks the view of all the good stuff you've been putting up routes on)."
Even if Weschrist did snag some fish, isn't that part of the dirtbag communal tradition?
Now, as to his assholishness - that has to go into context. I had thought to do a little backthread resarch, and see what sort of posts he's made over the time. But unfortunately the idea didn't hold enough intrigue for me to make those few page clicks.
-or-
Did you guys troll the troller(also a grand tradition, and one requiring much more skill)?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jul 12, 2007 - 09:47am PT
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PHEWWW!
i am sure glad that bvb and curt straightened us out and that wes is actually just a really nice guy who sometimes suffers from EIAS. it happens to many.
Evil Internet Asshole Syndrome
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Looney
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Jul 12, 2007 - 10:30am PT
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Supertopo and those who hang here are priceless. I've said it before, but it is worth repeating - thanks for allowing me to hang out with such a great crowd. :)
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jul 12, 2007 - 11:07am PT
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i am sure glad that bvb and curt straightened us out and that wes is actually just a really nice guy who sometimes suffers from EIAS. it happens to many.
I guess he just wanted this to become a thread about Wes. And succeeded.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jul 12, 2007 - 02:50pm PT
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yeah chiloe,
weschrist wanted to make sure that the "living history" thread adequately represented the wisdom of youth.
i am a believer. he will get his phd and save the world from the ills that previous generations made. we should feel lucky that we are a part of it and that he will fix what our generations have screwed up.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2007 - 03:18pm PT
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Weschrist wrote: nope, it is still the internet and should be treated as such. Might I suggest you put together something worthy of your glorious history... perhaps a picture book with little stories. I will give you $29.99 worth of respect if it is any good.
Your respect is worth about $0.00 to me. Keep trying.
What with the photos of the eight foot climbs??
Trolling is so...RC.com
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 12, 2007 - 03:29pm PT
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Nope, ya'll screwed it up too bad...
weschrist, you keep saying that the folks here, on this forum, are the ones responsible for making the world what it is today. In some senses, you're right. Many of the long-time climbers here DID help to make climbing what it is today. However, I doubt many of them had a hand in creating the corporate greed that plagues us today and has caused unimaginable harm to the planet on which we live.
So while it's fun to come here and throw around a few jokes, my bet is that your life at the Taco Stand will be short-lived and that you'll be remembered (if you make it to that status) much like we remember rajmit--we fondly remember him as a jerk and continue to use him as the butt of our jokes.
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Jul 12, 2007 - 03:40pm PT
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Weschrist, with all due respect....
Shut the f*#k up.
Not every thread needs to be about you.
Cheers!
GO
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seamus mcshane
climber
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Jul 12, 2007 - 03:40pm PT
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Weschrist has no respect for the past.
Trolling is simply typical lazy cowardice.
Weschrist embodies everything I want my children to avoid becoming.
Unapologetic, disrespectful, with severe entitlement issues.
They make drugs for his type of chemical imbalance.
LITHIUM, PROZAC, HEMLOCK, CYANIDE just to name a few.
IMHO, the pioneers of climbing deserve a forum such as this.
We should all be thankful this forum exists, Weschrists or not.
;)
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Jul 12, 2007 - 03:50pm PT
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I guess there comes a time when you realize that the most meaningful experience you will ever have are already behind you.
My philosophy (classical "Volstaggian" if you must know) suggests the opposite-that there is a 'most important' one coming up, though I am well past my "prime".
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 12, 2007 - 04:11pm PT
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"I am the sh#t and you are the poo, It's nice out of me, but it stinks out of you"
That's a little zen song of mine that I just made up. I don't think it necessarily applies but
If you don't want the thread to be about Wes, just ignore him or post spray about him in a separate thread. Why kill the buzz when you don't have to?
Peace
Karl
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 12, 2007 - 04:19pm PT
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^^^^ What he said^^^^
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 12, 2007 - 04:22pm PT
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bingo
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 12, 2007 - 07:28pm PT
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Say, did Lord Slime ever post to the Taco?
Now there's some Internet climbing history.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jul 12, 2007 - 08:52pm PT
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It´s a simple enough little verse, and yet it haunts . . .
Last campfires never die,
And you and I on separate trails to life's December,
Will always dream by this last fire,
And have this mountain to remember. ...
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 13, 2007 - 01:28am PT
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Piton Ron wrote; Yeah, we started by improvising diaper slings and now wear oversize harnesses to accomodate the Depends...
priceless.
Sweet poetry post Largo
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 13, 2007 - 05:28am PT
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I think I've said this before, but my mom used to tell me, "Profanity is the effort of a small mind to try to assert itself forcefully." And in that vein, small minds that have no insight into their heritage or the beauty and value of those who went before will never appreciate any type of reminiscence.
I'm not sure if I heard it said, or if I am just making it up, that the present could not exist without both past and future, and yet neither present, past, or future truly exist, because we are never in any one of them (the present least of all, which always is instantly vanishing). We never arrive at the future, for by definition it is always out there waiting for us, even enticing us. As for the past, we have only impressions, that we attempt to gather in gracefully, if possible, and not as chaos, and there is the reality: the picture we make of these ethereal realms, as together, so very mysteriously, they create us.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 13, 2007 - 10:04am PT
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I clicked the link to the Lord Slime post on rec. Pure, unadulterated, hard core cyberscrapping..... hahaha. I especially liked his signoff ("As always, go f*#k yerself,")
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jul 13, 2007 - 10:16am PT
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A brief excerpt:
Dll wrote:
"Lord Slime"
> "Dll"
>> You're such a bore...
> And clearly you're fulla sh#t, as always.
> - Lord Slime
Slime - you should sign up over at Supertopo. Pretty much everyone else here has. Everyone would love to see you over there, I'm sure.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 13, 2007 - 12:17pm PT
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Oh yeah, a quick peruse of that r.c thread reminded me why I left that group.
I cherish Oli's quote: "Profanity is the effort of a small mind to try to assert itself forcefully."
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jul 13, 2007 - 12:51pm PT
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I never figured out what the obsession is with that slime character. A clever internet flamer who swears a lot? dime a dozen.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 13, 2007 - 01:16pm PT
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"Clever" is the key. Truly clever internet personnas are not a dime a dozen.
Luckily, Supertopo is the clearinghouse of clever climbers, and does have them a plenty. And, though there are a few of an unadvanced age, the majority of them are the oldie and goodies, to which this thread was originally dedicated. That's what makes Supertopia an internet utopia.
Long live the old guys! And may they never get arthritis in their knuckles or carpel tunnel syndrome....at least before the get voice recognition software!
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dipper
climber
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Jul 13, 2007 - 01:35pm PT
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Curt wrote:
"I really hate to "out" anyone here, but weschrist is...
1) A really nice guy.
2) A hell of a strong climber. ....."
A) Nice guys don't treat people the way this person does.
B) Irrelevant, see A.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jul 13, 2007 - 04:01pm PT
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"I never figured out what the obsession is with that slime character. A clever internet flamer who swears a lot? dime a dozen."
Rec.climbing used to be the only show on the internet, and the regulars there were a sort of disfunctional family just like here, only it was smaller and a different crowd. Slime is/was a very outspoken part of that family.
When I first started reading rec.climbing (before I'd purchased my first peice of gear) he was one of the bullsh#t-callers that helped gumbies like me get my bearings.
I miss everyone at rec.climbing. Lots of recdot folks post here now, but the context is different. The old connection has sort of unraveled.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 13, 2007 - 05:02pm PT
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Weakwrist, join us at the boogaloo! We will all have laughs, and you can show us the moves!
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jul 13, 2007 - 05:25pm PT
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rec.climbing died with the 9600 bps modem...
And yet oddly it's still kickin' too, sometimes with humor and creativity as good as anything seen here.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Jul 13, 2007 - 08:47pm PT
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place wouldn't be the same without you Bob D.
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 15, 2007 - 06:57pm PT
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It seems whenever I get "philosophical" a thread dies. Or the ants come in with their little minds.
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Looney
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Jul 15, 2007 - 10:04pm PT
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Just ignore them and philosophicate away...
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 15, 2007 - 10:05pm PT
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Yeah, what Crimp said.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jul 15, 2007 - 11:18pm PT
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...Curt wrote:
"I really hate to "out" anyone here, but weschrist is...
1) A really nice guy.
2) A hell of a strong climber. ....."
A) Nice guys don't treat people the way this person does.
B) Irrelevant, see A...
hey dipper,
You left out my number (3) (that weschrist is a most excellent troll.) You've merely been had--hook, line and sinker, like so many others. Welcome to the interweb...
Curt
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 15, 2007 - 11:24pm PT
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The troll part, for sure, and there are enough of you guys talking nice words about him that you gotta wonder; but how 'good' is a guy who f*#kes up a thread like this and not only considers that an accomplishment, but the bald weasel fuk™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™ (thanks RW), gloats about it?
Were we all that worthless?
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2007 - 12:17am PT
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Curt wrote...You left out my number (3) (that weschrist is a most excellent troll.) You've merely been had--hook, line and sinker, like so many others. Welcome to the interweb...
Curt
Curt the only person had...was your little friend. This thread...was started with a true heart and mind. It was about respect and a chance to say thanks to those that have contributed to the sport that has bought much friendship and joy into my life.
You have to be a complete as#@&%e not to realized that this is living history speaking and telling stories that need to be told.
Making fun of it shows the limited age and mental capacity of your friend.
Later, Bob
PS...don't invite your little friend next time we go bouldering. LOL
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Jul 16, 2007 - 12:20am PT
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bald weasel fuk
you forgot to ™™™™™™ that jewel!
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jstan
climber
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Jul 16, 2007 - 02:25am PT
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Went climbing last week with a young gym climber who had never:
1. climbed outdoors
2. placed protection
3. led
On day three he was leading 5.8 with stoppers and cams. When he was 100 feet out and out of sight I told him he had graduated. He had learned everything he needed to know. What did I learn? I learned the glass is way more than half full.
Something told me by a 95 year old babe gets close to what this thread is about. She said, “John, the future will be much better than the past. But we all need to stay in contact. We all are going to have to change.” –Grace Rees
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Jul 16, 2007 - 02:58am PT
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He had learned everything he needed to know.
Prepare a casket.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jul 16, 2007 - 03:04am PT
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"Curt the only person had...was your little friend. This thread...was started with a true heart and mind. It was about respect and a chance to say thanks to those that have contributed to the sport that has bought much friendship and joy into my life.
You have to be a complete as#@&%e not to realized that this is living history speaking and telling stories that need to be told.
Making fun of it shows the limited age and mental capacity of your friend.
Later, Bob
PS...don't invite your little friend next time we go bouldering. LOL"
Naturally. Why would you want two of us there to embarrass you? Think about what you're saying, Bob. You've never made fun of anything held dear to someone else? I call BS.
Curt
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2007 - 10:02am PT
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Call...call it whatever you want...that my opinion on your friend and his post on this thread.
I am really worried if a young futon carrying kid can out boulder/embarrass me.
Right.
I got a little more than that going in my life.
Oh... The pictures he posted of those 12 foot boulders really scare me...kinda like the first time I saw the Black Canyon.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 16, 2007 - 10:04am PT
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Well the writing is on the wall, literally and figuratively. AARP sent me a howdy card and I stapled it up right on that wall there.
I honestly never dreamed I would make it this far. Back in my daze of wind in the hair devil may care flights of fanciful freedom I never believed I would actually turn 50. That's years old and not IQ. Never in my wildest imagination was "old and in the way" going to be a description for myself. But there it is stapled to the wall proof on paper. All in all...in all I am pretty happy to be here.
Recently I had the pleasure to introduce Bob Culp to Jorge & Joanne Urioste and Mike Anglin. And while I was feeling honored to be standing amongst such Living history it struck me that climbing represents a tremendous continuum. One generation passing on the lore and knowledge of past generations to the next. Not understanding or valuing the immense contributions of those that came before seems to me narrow minded at best. The youth of today sashays up routes inconceivable in my youth. They begin by cutting their teeth on 5.10 and almost before blinking they are climbing 5.12. Are they better, stronger or more motivated than we were? Were we more than those before? The obvious answer is no. We all just get to start a little higher on the scaffold being constructed by the continuum. the obvious next questions for the youth are; how high are you going to build? What are you going to tear down to build with? And will your construction stand the test of time?
Me I am just a has been wannabe. I may be old but at least I can still get Out of the way. I may not know where I am going but I do cherish where I've been and I honor those that helped me get there. And I agree with Oli that what brings us together is greater and more rewarding than what tears us apart.
"Do not follow in the footsteps of the men of old; Seek what they sought" - Basho
So in honor of seeking oldness a bunch of dust fartin' cronies are showing up with me in Eldo to whup it up with Brews n BBQs.
If any of you Topo-opians are in the picknick area midday this coming Saturday the 21st stop on by pull up a rockin' chair put on your slippers and cardigan and observe how geezers get
down. Lawrence Welk on the 8-track and Geritol Smoothies on the house! It'll be a hoot at least till nap time.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2007 - 10:36am PT
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Nice Phil.
Next year I get full AARP bennys. Can't wait!
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jstan
climber
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Jul 16, 2007 - 10:51am PT
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How's this for a benny?
At age 62 for $15 you can buy a Golden Turkey that admits you to all national parks and forests - for the rest of your life.The ranger let me buy it even though I was one month short of 62. I thought it really nice of her.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jul 16, 2007 - 01:29pm PT
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"...Call...call it whatever you want...that my opinion on your friend and his post on this thread. I am really worried if a young futon carrying kid can out boulder/embarrass me. Right. I got a little more than that going in my life. Oh... The pictures he posted of those 12 foot boulders really scare me...kinda like the first time I saw the Black Canyon..."
Well, in another time and place I remember you spending considerable energy defending one of your "pals" from being dissed in a public forum. I guess it's just my turn now.
Curt
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2007 - 01:42pm PT
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Curt wrote: Well, in another time and place I remember you spending considerable energy defending one of your "pals" from being dissed in a public forum. I guess it's just my turn now.
Curt
He was/is a good friend who was being dissed by a idiot who had very little respect and was a troll.
Sound familiar??
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 16, 2007 - 01:42pm PT
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would you two cut it out? can we please talk about ME a little bit? huh? i mean, i'm an american legend fer chrissakes.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2007 - 02:49pm PT
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Wes wrote: Bob d'Ant, I never dissed anyone's stories. I dissed the air of self-perceived importance that is based on things people did HOW MANY YEARS AGO. I think your stories are great and I agree there are great people on this site... I didn't realize ya'll were so uptight.
It was important who did what years ago...who shoulders do you think you are standing on? Nothing you have done in climbing hasn't been done before. You are a Johnny come Lately.
Wes wrote: I love hearing old people actually talk about cool experiences... I can't help making fun of them when they give each other virtual hand jobs.
Like the virtual hand jobs you and your little buddies give each other??
Wes wrote:How lucky are we to have the likes of Sharma, Caldwell, Graham, Litz, Loskot, Woods, Van Belle and the host of all the other great climbers/folks that are redefining our sport." I'm sure you have no problem realizing how trite that sounds.
It does sound trite...you left out a number of really good climbers doing some amazing stuff and you put a has been in that group. Love you BVB.
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scuffy b
climber
Bates Creek
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Jul 16, 2007 - 02:53pm PT
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Van Belle's publicist is worth his weight in gold.
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John Moosie
climber
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Jul 16, 2007 - 02:59pm PT
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Hey Wes,
So its trite to say thank you? Huh. Which is how Bob started this thread.
"Bob d'Ant, I never dissed anyone's stories. I dissed the air of self-perceived importance that is based on things people did HOW MANY YEARS AGO."
"Wow, old people who climbed on rocks back in the muthafukin day... and now spray embellished accounts of their experiences between meager attempts to rekindle their youthful drive by searching for internet porn.
I feel so honored to be sitting on the other end of this network of tubes connecting us"
When did TIME become a factor in deminishing great acts?
You say,
"If you have good stories, let's hear them. I don't care if they are cool stories from the 1970's or last weekend, as long as they are stories. I promise I won't make fun of them, even if it is a speed ascent of Nutcracker."
How do you reconcile the different statements above? In one you say "old stories" are bogus, and then you say you don't care when the event occures, just tell the stories.
I think you make a stupid statement and then you spent this whole thread trying to defend it. As though you are somehow superior because saying thanks and telling people that you are glad they are here is trite in your world. Ridiculous. You have gone around the bend on this one.
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John Moosie
climber
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Jul 16, 2007 - 03:07pm PT
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Instead, with your superior attitude, you sh#t on others enjoyment. You are a fool. You are correct that people are just people. What raises them up or tears them down are their actions. We celebrate peoples actions. You piss on them.
You reveal yourself to be a little man.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2007 - 03:24pm PT
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Wes...you fit in the last sentence of this quote. You are a little man indeed.
Theodore Roosevelt:
The Man In The Arena
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 16, 2007 - 03:30pm PT
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I have never got any feeling gratuitousness when reading accounts from the guys in this forum or in their "remember when's" that wrote of the crap others did back in the day. Certainly I would say that "Allez," "bro," beotch," and "the shizz" - words I read and hear way the f*#k too much out of whitebred boys - defines the word 'trite' more accurately.
Wes - I do see that, if your ribbing was all in fun, how it would be funny.... It actually would be. But I'm getting the feeling it isn't. All in fun, that is. I get the sense that maybe you feel your own efforts haven't received the same accolades, or perhaps that they won't receive them as time passes.
I don't, unfortunately, know what you've done. Maybe because I don't know your actual name. Maybe it is one that I would recognize. If so, and you are doing things like the Tommy Caldwells and Jason Kehls of the world, then for sure your name WILL go down in the annals, just like these guys names have done. The past is important, if for no other reason, as to serve as a benchmark as to what's being accomplished today.
Of course, there will always be the ones who's names seem to be only written between the lines in the story. Mari Gingerly comes to mind. That doesn't make her accomplishments any less legendary. But it's more often than not the case that we get to hear stories of stuff from people like her IN threads like the one that caused all this ruckus, where the "headline" ones start off a stream of consciousness, and then those other names will come up.
Fine for you, if you honestly get nothing but a glib satisfaction out of seeing those posts, but I think you might be in the minority. Why ruin it for others who do gain a sense of perspective and belonging through them?
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John Moosie
climber
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Jul 16, 2007 - 09:02pm PT
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You never made fun of their stories. No....you just made fun of those of us who are grateful for those stories and expressed that gratitude. And how did you make fun of us?
""Wow, old people who climbed on rocks back in the muthafukin day... and now spray embellished accounts of their experiences between meager attempts to rekindle their youthful drive by searching for internet porn."
Your words joker. Those things we are grateful for you call spray. Funny how this doesn't match up with these words.
""If you have good stories, let's hear them. I don't care if they are cool stories from the 1970's or last weekend, as long as they are stories. I promise I won't make fun of them, even if it is a speed ascent of Nutcracker."
Grow up Wes, or piss off Mr Superior. Bob was just trying to say thanks and you try to make him out to be a suck up. If you can't see that then you are blind.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Jul 16, 2007 - 09:36pm PT
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I think the quintessential point here Weakwrist, is that you (and your soul brother Rammit) aren't going to be seen as being cool for having a disdainful attitude to everyone else. Thats because you are both quite mean-spirited. Check out Werner's posts over time for a comparison. He is a pretty sarcastic guy, but never is he just flat out mean. I like/dislike people based on how cool I think they are. Just my opinion, but you probably aren't getting any cooler to many of the posters here. Maybe you don't care, but that begs the question, what are you doing here in the first place? No friends/life at all? If its all such a waste, who is the bigger fool? Those sharing comraderie, or some jackass bumming that everyone else is having such a good time?
Michael
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2007 - 09:44pm PT
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Wes wrote: Show me where I pissed on anyone's actions... other than the act of publicly saying how great people are. Tell me the actions that make these people so great and they may inspire me. Tell me how great they are and how privileged you are to post on the same forum as them (and LEB) and I will laugh in your face... not because I hate you, but because it is a funny concept to me... much like climbing 10 feet of overhanging granite that most of you will never be able to touch, let alone climb, is a funny concept to some of you.
Wes...you have no sense of climbing history and even worse...you don't make sense.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 16, 2007 - 10:20pm PT
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Wes,
you started out ragging on me so I made some overtures to see what gives and you betrayed your nature. I moved on. You haven't even succeeded in making yourself worth hating. Once again you overblow your significance.
Seems like my opinion doesn't distinguish me for at least this one time.
To the rest of you,
What do you say we leave Wes to his fun?
There are rocks to climb, food and drink to be savored, and partners to be enjoyed.
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John Moosie
climber
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Jul 16, 2007 - 10:43pm PT
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"To the rest of you,
What do you say we leave Wes to his fun?
There are rocks to climb, food and drink to be savored, and partners to be enjoyed"
Good idea....
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 16, 2007 - 10:47pm PT
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Speaking of Living History....I haven't heard a peep out of those SushiFesters....
Am I totally clueles, and missing some obvious thread? Or are they all still incommunicado?
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 17, 2007 - 10:09am PT
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Bob D started a really nice thread to acknowledge and appreciate the many fantastic (old) dudes on the Taco Stand. That was cool. Then Wessie has to jump up and poop on the parade. Several posters politely asked him to chill but he kept bashing away. So then a few folks decided to blog him a new one and here we are. you are getting your Melba toast all soggy with tears dude. Lighten up for Wes-christ's sake. It is the net after all. You have to expect that if some one lays a turd that others are going to say "that stinks". You youth with no appreciation for the heritage of our sport are just clapping with one hand. If Wessie didn't like Bob's post he could of just STFU! Instead he went into attack mode. Now like second hand smoke you are wafting around as well.
Lets see if in 20 or 30 years Wessie's accomplishments stand the test of time like those by the oldsters he seems to delight in denigrating. I know, I know that is a big word with lots of sylables. Get a dictionary or is that too "old school" for you young hotties?
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2007 - 10:43am PT
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Wes wrote:Just admit you got a chuckle, as was the intention. The rest of you, admit you would have gotten a chuckle if you weren't wound so f*#king tight.
Did you ever think that maybe people on this thread don't find you funny...at all?
Wes...you are a hardheaded one. This thread was about respect and a warm felt thanks...not about hero-worship.
Pretty simple ...dude!
Your accomplishment in climbing is being BVB spotter and spokeman...on the web is a pretty bad third rate troll. Keep up the good work.
Bob d'ANT
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Jul 17, 2007 - 12:31pm PT
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I'll tell you what, your tights are really damn funny!!!!!!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 17, 2007 - 01:38pm PT
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Wow thats pretty sad if I sent you more emails than anyone. How long ago did I quit? I can't even remember.
You poor kid.
Maybe you should don your tights and go out and mix...
(although I'd watch my 6 if I wore THOSE)
but henceforth I'll follow my own advice
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Jul 17, 2007 - 02:24pm PT
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If a little sincerity is so offensive to you Wes, go back home to b.com. Pity, this thread started out so sweetly.
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Jul 17, 2007 - 05:04pm PT
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Easy, Wes.
Why don't YOU walk away.
And making fun of Bob's lycra? That's just plain mean. He couldn't help it - it was the 80's! When you were still in grade school, I'm guessing.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Luxury rehabilitation treatment facility in Boise
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Jul 17, 2007 - 05:22pm PT
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Lycra was worn in to old days? Who woulda thunk it? I must have slept through that decade.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jul 17, 2007 - 05:33pm PT
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The very title of this thread is pretty pompous.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Jul 17, 2007 - 06:38pm PT
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Ho man, banned from boldering.com? Okay, that's worthy of some respect.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 17, 2007 - 07:26pm PT
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Wessie said; I didn't let up. He banned me.
Sounds like your MO. And a possibly good outcome as well.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2007 - 10:14pm PT
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Wes...nice shot of me...did you steal it off of Gill's web site??
Little history lesson for you...that the problem that Gill rip his bicep on.
Best for a little wanna be like you to stay away from.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2007 - 10:57pm PT
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Caught wrote:The very title of this thread is pretty pompous.
Why???
What pompous is you thinking that most of the names in the OP are not part of climbing history.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Jul 17, 2007 - 11:00pm PT
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glad you saw that Bob, it bugged me too - I mean why even say sucha thing? what's the point? communication is a tool: why not use it constructively?
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 17, 2007 - 11:12pm PT
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This is exactly why I was wondering about controlling our own threads, i.e. being able to keep a thread somewhat alive, by having the power to delete the green vomit or spray the ants who come in with their little minds, even to ban (on our own threads) those who clearly only mean to bring a bad spirit or other harm.
As for no one being worthy of unmixed praise, that could well be true. That's why I described Jello as human and real, full of contradiction and flaws. That's why I've opened my heart to some of my own stupidities through the years. But there is a differnce between keeping the balance, that delicate, keen perspective, as opposed to simply throwing out ugly shots designed to give their author, above all, a sense of authority and power. The greatest people are always the most generous, in my experience.
These references to old guys. People keep telling me I'm old, and relative to something for certain I am indeed, but last night I easily defeated (in sparring) two very strong black belts half my age. Old can sometimes translate as experience. Through the years I've known all the best young stars of climbing. To a man, they become better people with time.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Jul 17, 2007 - 11:16pm PT
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Oli did you read my post on your webmaster thread?
I recently talked to Big Wall Pete (Takeda) a really nice guy with TONS of experience, stories, information - a great sense of respect for tradition and many photos to boot - when the subject of the ST came up he just smiled, said "I've posted but the place is volatile".
so we don't get Pete here (or guys like him) because of green ant vomit and that is a shame.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2007 - 11:29pm PT
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Raydog...Shame about Pete...he has a lot to offer. Wes more than likely cut his teeths over at boldering.com... one of the most vile climbing sites on the web.
Home of LOX...
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Jul 17, 2007 - 11:31pm PT
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Pat, I need to get you one of these shirts!
Age is like taste, or rather sense of style. It never stays the same, it only gains perspective. A good friend of mine is a black belt in Okinawan Goju ryu. It's inspiring to know that he picked up a trade well after his "prime" was over, and through years and years of training, has a whole new persona. To know that, at 55 years old, you can change your whole personality and lifestyle, and be contemporary and strong in whatever it is, seems like something new. People aren't used to it, but like the saying goes now, 50 is the new 40.
I think I might be young enough that, when i get there, 100 will be the new 70! I could use another 50 years of climbing.
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atchafalaya
climber
California
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Jul 17, 2007 - 11:40pm PT
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Oli, Raydog, once every month or two, someone posts a thread asking for some level of moderation on the forum.
On one of the threads asking for moderation, and only climbing content, Dingus stated (paraphrasing) "If you dont like the threads, then post something that doesn't suck, the forum is only as good as whats being posted". Or something like that.
Keep posting the great stories/photos. This thread had some legs earlier. Now its got the palsy. It only takes one decent post to revive it.
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Jul 17, 2007 - 11:48pm PT
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" It only takes one decent post to revive it. "
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2007 - 11:56pm PT
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GDavis...Nice... Jim H. at the Penny Ante Boulder.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Jul 17, 2007 - 11:59pm PT
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Fortunately for me, even during the 80s I realized the only legitimate activities for lycra were swimming, cycling, and track and field. But I have to admit to having competed in every piece shown. I even have a matching jersey for the tiger stripe pair!
I also succumbed to Bill Forrest's deadly grip in the 70s
That should make everyone else feel a little better about their judgement, or lack there of!
Michael
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 18, 2007 - 12:04am PT
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My judgment of those angle things above.
I'd immediately chuck em into the abyss ......
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 18, 2007 - 12:14am PT
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Is it safe?
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 18, 2007 - 12:17am PT
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As long as you're wearing your brain bucket.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 18, 2007 - 12:18am PT
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Ron...the lycra or the titons??
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 18, 2007 - 12:22am PT
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Has it stopped pissing out?
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Jul 18, 2007 - 02:23am PT
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Hey Oli, and whoever else wants to know:
this is roywonder @ 55 yrs old
CHEERS
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 18, 2007 - 02:41am PT
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I will be 61 September 3
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 18, 2007 - 12:44pm PT
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"Living history?" This has now become more like "Night of the living dead."
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 18, 2007 - 01:04pm PT
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Go Roy!!!
Back to the off-topic... I have always wondered* what it is about a person's personality that would drive them to create situations where others berated them. PinkTriCam was big on that over at rc.com for a while. Constantly, and with obvious intent, making threads or posts that were sure to bring on a barrage of disparaging remarks. It's clear that these sorts get some sense of sadistic enjoyment out of the thing. Like a displaced martyr or something.
It's not limited to the internet of course, but the behavior sure does come to the foreground rather frequently in this arena.
Anyone out there with some psychology background who can offer an idea on what it's all about?
*Well, at least since I started playing in onlinre forums, I have wondered this....
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scuffy b
climber
The deck above the 5
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Jul 18, 2007 - 01:16pm PT
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When is a picture of somebody on an eight-foot rock worthy of
praise?
When is a picture of somebody on an eight-foot rock worthy of
scorn?
I'll take any photos, gladly, in almost all cases.
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scuffy b
climber
The deck above the 5
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Jul 18, 2007 - 03:13pm PT
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Yer confused, Dingus.
I'm not living history.
I'm a living fossil.
Learn the difference.
What's that roof thingy?
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 18, 2007 - 03:24pm PT
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Bear shidt?
Wild wild ?
Did those guys guys make a feild trip to Soquel last night?
I can think of an eight footer (mas o menos, prolly 15') that may still need brushing.
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 18, 2007 - 03:36pm PT
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Now that was funny, Wes.
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scuffy b
climber
The deck above the 5
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Jul 18, 2007 - 04:28pm PT
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Ed, Gary and Santa Cruz Ron made it last night.
Gobies were acquired, technicolor yawns were avoided by all.
Ron's 7-month-old daughter was there to keep us honest.
Some of us thought it was steep, but it's probably pretty
slabby in reality.
That thing you're thinking of got brushed pretty well the other
day. The Other One still needs to encounter the chimney brush.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 19, 2007 - 12:05am PT
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So, Roy Wonder@55, unless I am, in my doderage still confused, I think you're the Bastille day birthday boy that I accused Nature of being. Happy birthday! If not, happy birthday! anyway, you got one coming, sooner or later.
Scufyb, glad to hear of the turnout, down there! Hope someone got photos! I'll get there eventually, next week with my new fangled clutch I plan to make it to Gary's.
Btw, since that post of yours, my internal boombox has been replaying the kink's Apeman, I only occasionally think of Maureen O'Sullivan, though.
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 19, 2007 - 03:55pm PT
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Almost twenty-five posts in a row with nothing about "living history."
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 19, 2007 - 04:05pm PT
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You're not counting the last 7, or so?
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scuffy b
climber
The deck above the 5
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Jul 19, 2007 - 04:08pm PT
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Well, Pat, threads get tired. Two of those posts are yours.
If none of those 25 posts had been posted, this would probably
be on the 3rd page by now.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 19, 2007 - 04:12pm PT
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"Almost twenty-five posts in a row with nothing about "living history."
don't sweat it pat, i'm still lurking out here.
the living history abides.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 19, 2007 - 04:17pm PT
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some day, maybe 30yrs out, someone is gonna ask, "what was the deal with those turn of the century wood odubs in nocal? where did those guys take that?"
Perhaps some of us will still be around to guide them back to the reference that this part of this thread has become.
-Only semi-facetcious, there is a lot more going on here than that. Although that is, in my view anyway, a fractal of what this thread started out about.
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scuffy b
climber
The deck above the 5
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Jul 19, 2007 - 05:55pm PT
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Oli,
I have a history question. My recollection from reading the
Nerve Wrack Point account has you and Tom mumbling around pieces
of chalk held in your mouths, I think more than once. You also
were shown recently on some thread with chalk in your mouth as you bouldered. The photo taken of you at the top of Nerve Wrack
Point doesn't seem to show any obvious pockets, and I infer (from
the fact of chalk ever being in your mouth) that you didn't use
chalk bags at the time. How did you carry chalk on such a long
climb?
As an aside, I thought the piece was powerful, as did my friends.
However, some of them were disillusioned when they did the climb
and were not as terrified as they expected.
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scuffy b
climber
The deck above the 5
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Jul 19, 2007 - 05:56pm PT
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wes, how do you know they're not in disguise?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 19, 2007 - 06:01pm PT
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WC: rubbish, without a pause.
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rmuir
Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Jul 19, 2007 - 09:57pm PT
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In Newport Beach, they were a.k.a., Gook Boots. Two-thirds the price of EBs, and one-third the boot. Man. I've seen galoshes that could edge better. The worst shoe ever.
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 19, 2007 - 11:00pm PT
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OK, gray hair is living history. I can live with that. That would make me incredibly alive and monumentally historic.
Nerve Wrack Point. A very hot, sweaty, sunburnt day. Knobs greasy, Kronhoeffer shoes, like roller skates by comparison to today's sticky rubber shoes, which now make what were once sloping, marble-sized knobs seem like one-foot wide ledges. We had no chalk bags yet, if I recall. I kept a few tiny blocks, about the size of several Tums, in my right pants pocket (I was wearing some cut-off jeans). Only now and then did I reach in to dab a little on my fingertips. I don't think Higgins had any chalk... can't remember. Maybe he did, but he didn't use it much. There are more bolts on the route now, as well. When you don't know a route will go, it's an adventure, there is uncertainty. You can't see the difficulty from below. To start the climb today, you already know it's only 5.9 at most, or maybe easy 5.10 for a move somewhere, in sweltering heat. That's a big psychological advantage. To repeat a route, to look up and see a bolt twenty feet ahead negates much of that fear. You know you can get to that bolt somehow. You don't have to think about getting strung out somewhere or how you will be able to stand on little knobs, or ONE little knob, let go, and hand-drill the bolt while in balance. Now you just quickly clip the bolt. Lots of other factors make such a first ascent more exciting and difficult than any repeat could ever be.
But we wrote that piece not to brag about some ferocious climb. Hardly. It wasn't a climb even close to our limit abilitywise. We wrote Nerve Wrack Point because we both are writers and were in a mood suddenly to try a collaboration... a few impressions, back and forth. I was at Higgins' house, then in Visalia, early 1970s. He put on a beautiful tape of Ravel, and I went into another room. We could write separately but hear the same inspiring music. He could hear me with my paper up against the wall, in the room next to him, scratching things out. Now and then you'd hear a loud laugh or giggle, as one of us thought of some inane thing to write that ended up on the cutting room floor. It was all in fun. Tom had to go to the bathroom at one point. I heard him in there say, aloud, as though drafting a line for the article, "Soon I was finished and feeling better." The laughter at times became so painful it hurt. Later at an airport, I was broke and trying to use a phony youth discount card. I was taken aside by authorities and couldn't catch a plane. Peter Haan came to the rescue, drove to the airport and loaned me the money to buy a ticket. While waiting there, Peter and I brainstormed. He threw out some creative ideas that helped me envision the final section of the article, the part about being in the airport and thinking about Higgins.
I've repeated the climb many times and found it to be modest, nothing a relatively decent Tuolumne climber couldn't enjoy readily. The difficulty was never the issue, though you will never know what that blank wall was like on the first ascent. We may have played it up a small bit for the sake of the article..., but if anything the depth of friendship was understated.
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john hansen
climber
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Jul 19, 2007 - 11:11pm PT
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Well ,, there you go.
Living history.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 20, 2007 - 01:17am PT
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Nice Oli, that Nerve Wrack Point is a gem too.
Once upon a time, back in the Flash Dance 80's in Boulder...
Skip Guerin and I are taking a gay stroll along the Pearl St Mall. We step into a gag shop where Skip quickly spies the prize: a perfectly fake, totally believable pile of glistening dog poo. I have to say it looked very, very, fresh: you know, wet.
"Oh man, we gotta send this to The Fish!" exclaims Arthur "Skip" Guerin. "But first, we gotta test it out". So Skip acquires the gleaming biscuit and in short order we lay it in the middle of the living room where he is opportunistically surfing the couch circuit and wait for the arrival of the payin' room mates.
Kieth Gotshall, a really nice, unassuming, generally light hearted fellow, a bona fide payin’ room mate, comes sauntering merrily through the doorway, goes straight to the fridge, comes around the corner into the room and just as he twists the cap to his beer, stopps dead in his tracks. Kieth’s eyes become transfixed upon the item on the carpet beneath his feet. He is totally unconscious of the beer suds dripping onto his hand from the opened bottle.
Skip, already properly smashed into the couch, slowly rolls his face down into the pillows. Now the charge which lay heavily upon my shoulders sinks in quickly: I am to be straight man....“Don’t you guys see that!!!”....“See what Kieth”, this, as I nonchalantly nurse my own brew and peruse the local weekly....“There, …there’s a fresh dog sh#t right on the carpet! You guys don’t see that!”
Skip, rolls over: “Oh man, check that out, I thought you were kidding, that’s fer real”, then he lazily, smartly giggles and resumes his cushion face position and half muffled, moaning through the pillows: “That’s rough duty Kieth, ho, ho man, Roy, help him out or somethin’…”....“I dunno Kieth, I ain’t seen no dogs, hmm, the door has been opened, we’ve been snoozing for a bit, uh…do you guys even have a dog?”
Kieth, hook line and sinker, proceeds into the kitchen, where he arms himself with all manner of poop extraction accoutrement: a spatula, paper towels, a trash bag, all this in hand and arm as he emerges from the pantry with his free hand pinching his nose. “Oh man, I can’t do it. This is awful. Dog sh#t right here in our house, in the living room, square in the middle of the shag carpet. And it’s still moist.”
He backs away a few steps, creeps back into the kitchen and slumps into a chair, remembers his beer, takes a respite with a few sips. “Oh Man…”. Then he stands up, resolves to arm himself with more paraphernalia from the kitchen drawers and re approaches the task, this time with jaw set and mind resolved to embrace ...the challenge.
The next day Skip wrapped the prize and posted it off to Russ at Fish Products, where it became, for a time, one of the dapper side offerings, a pause in the gateway to the illustrious big wall gear line.
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John Moosie
climber
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Jul 20, 2007 - 02:14am PT
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LOL Roy, I thought for sure you were going to say that just as keith was about to pick up the fakie, Skip walked over and took a big ol lick on it. Hahaha....That was the image I had. Thanks for the story Roy. And thank you Oli. Good stuff.
John
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 20, 2007 - 12:28pm PT
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Yes John Moosie,
Your finish gives sturdier legs to the tale!
I like it.
Oh well,
Back to living history,
For we must be ever vigilant in heralding our most cherished icons:
...Fish Products & Russ Walling: THE industry benchmark for, Quality, Attitude, & Purpose! ...(QAP)
...Dream, Believe, Do, Become.
Slaving away the wee hours to bring us all The Finest Gear & Accoutrement!
Face it, You Love It, You Gotta Have it...
Livin' Fuchin' Histry'
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 20, 2007 - 12:40pm PT
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Sewellymon always pays full retail, plus 10 percent.
He gets no respect, gives none, and we love him so.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 20, 2007 - 01:40pm PT
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So DaftRat let me get this straight, your claim to fame, other than being a tool for Zionism and Neo-Conservatism, is that you once sold, at full retail, a pair of the worst shoes ever made to a friend. And that is why you think we HAVE TO listen to your B.S.
Ahh the sickly sweet smell of delusions of grandeur.
You know Dafty if you would quit spewing your bile of slaughtering brown people to make the world safe for Zionism Taco Standers might take you seriously.
Now how about we get back to the intent of this thread?
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jul 20, 2007 - 02:52pm PT
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"Almost twenty-five posts in a row with nothing about "living history."
Does that make them ant vomit or just not up to your standard?
Current happeinings that will be remembered fondly in years to come is what I consider is living history.
Stories from the days of yore is just history.
It's ALL good.
I honestly think that someday DMT's or Brutus' or yo's or Ed Hartouni's (etc.) TR's will be read by youngun's who, like many of us now, value them for reasons other than catching a glimpse of climbing at the absolute standard for difficulty of the day.
Edit...This post makes me remember my favorite TR. It was posted by a pseudonym and no names were used. I came to realize a year or two after reading it 'who' the characters were. Had the names been used (dropped?), you would probably count the thread as living history. People would probably treat the OP differently too. Perhaps that's why he chose to keep it as just his story as opposed to turning it into history?
So many beautiful stories get lost when we limit the ones deemed worth telling to the well-publicized standard breakers. Women's climbing history is a fairly obscure topic partly for this reason.
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 20, 2007 - 03:21pm PT
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Melissa, you might try reading, even slightly reading, and trying to understand what I have been saying. Where did I ever say I wanted to undervalue someone's current story or TR? Or where did I say older history is more valuable than current events? And where did I say I want to censor anyone? And where did I say I am judging Hourtini or any of the latest people or trying to supress anything they have to say or share? You accuse me of all these things. Try at least in some small way to catch the drift of what I'm saying so you can stop putting all those false notions on me and trying to say I am setting up the standard by which everyone is to be judged. How ridiculous. Anyway all those issues belong on the "inquiry" thread and not on this one, if you must. I simply pointed out that a lot of threads here passed by with nothing whatsoever being said about any kind history, living, dead, past, or present, a good example of how threads are led away from the subject into oblivion. Mayby that kind of stuff is what you prefer to read, so protective of it as you are. Did I overlook a couple threads that were actually about something? Sorry.
But to stay on thread, the most amazing boulderer I think I may have ever seen, other than John Gill (who was always leagues above anyone, all things considered), was Rich Borgman. Although he rarely, if ever, did a first ascent (that wasn't for some strange reason his cup of tea), he could climb anything Gill put in front of him, and certainly any of the hardest routes I or anyone I knew could do. He did them all first try, as well. I first met him bouldering with Gill, and Rich and I competed against each other in a gymnastics meet between Colorado University and Colorado State University. That fellow was a lizard, like none other.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jul 20, 2007 - 03:23pm PT
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"Anyway all those issues belong on the "inquiry" thread and not on this one, if you must. I simply pointed out that a lot of threads here passed by with nothing whatsoever being said about any kind history, living, dead, past, or present, a good example of how threads are led away from the subject into oblivion."
And I disagreed with you and tried to explain to you, citing examples of similar types of 'living history' that I appreciate, why I valued having every one of those 25 'off topic' posts right where they were.
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 20, 2007 - 04:44pm PT
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Who deleted what posts? I only deleted one of my own posts when I got the sense it offended someone. Was that wrong?
Melissa. I was too hard on you. I apologize. I think you make good points, one for example that "living history" can include the present moment and people in middle of their lives now. I went back to see how Bob had initially defined this thread, and he seems to agree with you there. That's a good insight on your part. I probaby am too focused into the past. That's only because I have no future. I also like your idea that it is difficult to decide who should be the gate-keeper and make the decisions for deleting garbage. I'm really sorry if I have communicated a notion that I want to silence anyone. Hardly. I don't even want to silence Wes. Sometimes he makes sense. On occasion I like what he says. But a thread can go along, you know something like this:
A: Do you remember a climber by the name of XXXX? I saw him climb once, and he was incredibly smooth and gifte.
B: Yes I know what you mean. I climbed with him once, and he led something I was desperate to follow.
C: He was a gymnast at the university of *, and now he's living in *, with his wife and two kids.
D: I want to suck a dog's purple boner.
OK, so there we have the progression. A great huge bug has now splattered onto the windshield right in front of us. How, until your eyes glance at the message, are you to know you should have read around that message? The image is in your head now, like it or not. What did the message have to do with anything? How did it fit the topic? Does anyone have to be a rocket scientist to realize this is nothing but spew? Some might find it wonderfully incongruous and funny, I suppose. Some would cherish the idea of the freedom we allow those to "contribute" in such ways. I, for one, would get out a rag and clean that off the window. I think of a thread as a kind of Jackson Pollack painting, perhaps. A lot of different strokes begin to form the whole. Each poster contributes in some way. But then someone comes and slashes the canvas with a knife. Should that slash be part of the final work? Well it is, whether we like it or not, unless it can be repaired somehow. I'm getting over-dramatic. Anyway, if the person had said, "Pat you are a pompous imbecile." Well now that's a real opinion. That's his or her thought. It might be based on something genuine that s/he feels. I would not want to wipe that away, even if it really hurt to hear it or if it's totally wrong.
I also stated clearly that I do not insist on anything. I've just been throwing out ideas. People act as though I am demanding something. I'm not.
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JohnHemlock
Mountain climber
CO
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Jul 20, 2007 - 04:52pm PT
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I am here to post in this very important thread.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 20, 2007 - 04:54pm PT
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I first climbed with Dennis Horning (Dingus Mcgee) in 1977, in 79 we climbed in the meadows and the valley, he belayed me on Mentalblock (the yosemite one with the non consensus rating)
He was one smoooth climber and one of the quirkiest wit's ever. about a decade ago he had to have a plate put in his head. I climbed with him a few times (maple cnyn for one) since then.
I think he still lives in Laramie and is a carpenter. Anybody know anything more?
"I want to suck a dog's purple boner." lol! but OT!
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TwistedCrank
climber
Luxury rehabilitation treatment facility in Boise
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Jul 20, 2007 - 06:14pm PT
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Deleting posts in this thread is revisionist living history.
When a bug splats on the windshield that stuff that looks like snot is called hemolymph. HE-MO-LYMPH.
So now you know. And you can drop this little tidbit at your next cocktail party.
Climbing content: off-sized fingers
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Jul 20, 2007 - 07:55pm PT
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Yous guys suck!
Why don't yous just talk amongst yousselfs and tell us alls to go fuk ourselfs, yous fukin fuks.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Jul 20, 2007 - 07:58pm PT
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Excuse My Languge.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 20, 2007 - 08:23pm PT
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Simmer down boys.
Or not.
You guys are so cuddly.
Hey, Bill, I just realized last week that you are Wild Bill Hatcher!
Haven't seen you in a coon's age.
Here's a thread which needs some help, getting some real living history out of Mark Powell:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=418863&tn=0
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Jul 20, 2007 - 08:27pm PT
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Hey Roy, Bill Hatcher is not me, and I am not him. Or something like that. Although I have partied with Bill, and nearly got arrested with him, I am in general much less skilled with the lens.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 20, 2007 - 08:35pm PT
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Oh whutever.
Yer still Wild Bill and that's what counts.
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Jul 20, 2007 - 09:38pm PT
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You're sweet Roy.
Crowley speaks. Say hi to Supertopo's resident wanker-in-chief, A. Crowley:
Pic 'stolen' off supertopo. I see others found it here as well, including Ouch! Haha, hilarious.
Soon to be history, already toast, now that Ouch has gotten ahold of him.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 20, 2007 - 10:14pm PT
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What would the charge(s) have been?
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yo
climber
The Eye of the Snail
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Jul 20, 2007 - 10:25pm PT
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Musty in here.
(Hi, Melissa!)
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 20, 2007 - 10:36pm PT
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Aint that other Wild Bill in Deborah?
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Jul 20, 2007 - 10:37pm PT
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The charges were trumped up, and entirely of my doing (and not BH's). Had to do with a very fast car, an impetuous youth at the wheel, and a local Black Hills constabulary. The only remarkable thing was the car, Mazda's rally king - a turbo 16 valve AWD ripper from the late 80's.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jul 20, 2007 - 11:20pm PT
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Well, if you didn't believe in entropy before, just re-read this thread from start to finish.
Curt
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2007 - 12:33am PT
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The wind was knock out of me about 125 post ago. Good job boys!
We could have learn something here...instead we got sh#t on.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 21, 2007 - 12:36am PT
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Who's Deborah?
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Jul 21, 2007 - 12:37am PT
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we'll get it back on track Bob - send bvb an email and tell him to get his ass in gear and send me that mag :)
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 21, 2007 - 12:49am PT
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Oli asked this question earlier: ". But then someone comes and slashes the canvas with a knife. Should that slash be part of the final work?"
Interesting question Pat.
Here you just skip over the slasher and ignore. You come back and post again like the slasher never even existed.
Sometimes they get upset when they are ignored and go on some psycho rampage where they fill the whole front page with sh'it.
We have seen this madness many times. Hahahaha
Yeah it's kind of funny and stupid at the same time.
But if one takes themselves too seriously here you will become upset over this. Better just to let them get it out of their system just like a cloud burst doesn't last too long.
Then nice sun comes and rainbow makes Oli smile .....
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jul 21, 2007 - 03:17am PT
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"I want to suck a dog's purple boner." lol! but OT!
I'm more of a cat person. ;-) (BTW, I LOLed too...That's why I like the occasional boner post.)
Thanks for your post, Oli. (Not just the funny part.)
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 21, 2007 - 08:49am PT
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Back on thread...
Yesterday I had the pleasure of watching my good friend 70 year old Jorge Urioste climb the bastille with his 16 year old son. Today I turn 50. Now if that is not living history what is?
Hope you all have a great day! phil broscovak.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 21, 2007 - 09:54am PT
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Happy Birthday,
You're history dude!
and
yur gonna die!
Someday
;-)
Karl
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 21, 2007 - 12:10pm PT
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Happy 50 Phil!
I met the Uriosites back in 1980.
Very nice folk.
Dan Michael & I were staying at Grandstaff's place in Las Vegas, where Largo & Lynn Hill were also living and we'd go and try to figure out what was going on back in those Red Rock canyons. At the time, George had fixed lines part way up "Levitation 29" and the route was about half completed. He and his wife had set up a nice low impact camp site at the base and they treated Dan & I to a cup of tea before we headed up on Eagle Dance. Very civil; really nice people those two.
There was a bit of symbiosis between the Old & Young guard. George & Joanne were the locals, as was Grandstaff of course, and the Uriosites were given to siege & bolt tactics, which may have seemed a little outdated to us, but they really love their climbing and they are so nice that little of the typical conflict arose. In fact, Largo realized that he could live & let live, then just go up with Lynn and free the bolt ladders. Sort of pre dated sport climbing, by default. George's wife Joanne would often follow George's aid leads free as well. The whole thing was an interesting cooperative effort. Uriosites would get the first ascent, John & Lynn would get the free and the rest of us would try to lure more info out of Grandstaff about what he'd done. Randy was very accomodating with his house, yet very protective of his route information. By contrast, the Uriosites were entirely open about their exploits. Interesting times. Good times.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Jul 21, 2007 - 12:33pm PT
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You know all this talk about old, history, and dead or living fossils . . . hey, I collect fossils.
Don't fret, many of you are very valuable in the fossil/mineral collecting world. Something to be proud of.
Just checking in. Hope everyone's summer is happening.
Klimmer
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2007 - 06:30pm PT
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Phil...sorry about not making to your 50 year bash. Hope you had a good one and is way great seeing you last nite.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 22, 2007 - 10:32am PT
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The FIVE-0-IN ELDO was a Blast! We started to calculate the number of collective years climbing experience. I lost count at 420 but I am fairly sure we easily topped 500. The average number of years experience was 28. Jorge really threw off the bell curve having started out 52 years ago in hob nail boots. Truly remarkable! I felt incredibly honored by everyone just being there. The ranger actually presented me with a piece of Ivy Baldwin's high wire. Blew me away! What a treasure of history.
BobbyD you were missed but not dissed. Sorry you couldn't make it but it really was great running into you Friday. Thanx to all for a super send off to the 2nd half of a century. And Bob thanx for this thread.
Live On History!
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seamus mcshane
climber
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Jul 22, 2007 - 05:07pm PT
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weschrist is superghey!
last post is proof.
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 22, 2007 - 06:55pm PT
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That was obviously a poem you wrote, Wes, as it perfectly reflects your ungenerous view of life. Nor would that poem be as good as the worst poem in a 7th grade poetry class. Your writing is as bad as your thinking. Your ideas are as weak as your reasoning intelligence, if I should be so kind as to grace what goes on up there in your mind as "reasoning" or "intelligence."
Before you criticize people, really you should be somewhere at or near their ability, or at least from a far distance making small steps to approach it, you know, if you want to have any sort of credibility. It's like a beginning writer tearing Howard Nemerov apart, or some aspiring 6th grade writer ripping Yeats, people whose minds were like galaxies, infinitely huge and blessed, compared to a mind about like the inside of a TV dinner. Yes everyone loses their edge. It's the way of the world. Name someone who doesn't. That's the easiest observation anyone could ever make, and the most worthless observation also. But they sharpen other edges, of which you are not aware. I really would challenge you to try to be a better person. You might actually have something valid to say one day, something that would matter, something that would reflect integrity or honesty, those qualities you don't seem to want to experience at this moment in your "life." We all tend to be jerks when we're young, but you can turn that around if you could find the desire. Or you can stay where you are, spewing your negative, thoughtless time-wastes in all directions, in a pathetic attempt to seem "tough" or to cut down your mental superiors of whom you seem so very resentful and jealous.
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seamus mcshane
climber
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Jul 22, 2007 - 07:26pm PT
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"I get inspiration from history. I probably respect it more than some people, but I've gotten so much from the past that to spit in its face just MAKES NO SENSE. You get a lot from it and so you take that into account. You don't just take the good parts of it and forget about the parts that MIGHT hold you back. And I don't think of history as holding me back in any way..."
"Young climbers see the "now" as all important- the ultimate statement. But how can you look at anything in isolation? No matter what you're looking at- climbing, nature, politics, relationships- nothing can be looked at in isolation. It doesn't mean anything in isolation."
Peter Croft 1992
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 22, 2007 - 07:37pm PT
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actually pat, wes wishes he wrote that. it's actually from a pretty amazing hip-hop track and if you understand wes's POV, it is germaine to whatever obscure point he is trying to make here.
check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzuFeXYbOOo
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 22, 2007 - 07:48pm PT
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lost it. years ago. never getting it back.
he's losing his edge....
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2007 - 02:51am PT
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Kevin wrote: wes, christ, you're losin it.
No...maybe he is Tupac???
Wes...whatever point you are trying to make its obvious that you just aren't good enough to get it across.
Hard to believe that Peter Croft and Wes are both from the same species.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 23, 2007 - 08:45am PT
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JeeSuz KeyRiced Wessie what crawled up your poop tube and died?
What ever it was it is festering like a cancer. Either that or you have had an Operectomy. Thats the surgical procedure that connects your optic nerve to your as#@&%e and gives you a shitty outlook on life. Your a nasty little punk ass piss ant. Do you always have to take a steamer on everyone else's parade? Are you trying in desperation to pump up your already bloated sense of worth. Or does your bogus "born again" religiosity give you all the sense of superiority you are sure you deserve. Take some advice and take a hike or go take a steamer on your own crash pad. However if you ever want to learn to be a real climber (after you sprout pubic hair and move out of mommie's house that is) Then post up. We edge losin' old farts are pretty nice, forgiving and understanding folks.
Oh and don't have your Alter (heshe) ego Raimit post up to tell me I hurt your feelings and you are such a good boy we should all make nicey nice with you. Since as things stand now I just wiped more valuable bio-mass than you off my O-ring.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jul 23, 2007 - 09:06am PT
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Wes could easily have taken his own advice and just skipped over the posts that displeased him. But the issue really was, this thread had drifted back to being not about Wes. For his entertainment, he made a post to correct that.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 23, 2007 - 11:32am PT
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Actually
If you really look hard you will see that weschrist is a mirror.
Everything you respond to it reflects back at your own self.
It's not that weschrist is blowing it, the responders are blowing it.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2007 - 11:34am PT
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Nice try Wes...funny when the troll doesn't know when he being trolled.
Have fun climbing and watch yourself on those 12 foot walls.
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 23, 2007 - 11:56am PT
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Werner,
The only people who are real mirrors are those who see clearly. I can't see myself in any way in Wes, because the plane on which he exists is flat and horribly distorted. Now if I were to look at Pratt, I would see myself, in all its frightening dimensions and depth, both the good and the bad. That experience always shook me into wanting to be better. It's called inspiration.
You once mentioned chess. I always found I played much better against superior opponents. There is that inspiration factor. Often I would beat some master, or a couple experts, and then against a lesser player succumb to a draw or something, because the whole experience was so lacking in inspiration, and I could hadly care. Some people by their mere presence bring everyone else down. Some just step into a room, and the kind of "energy" they radiate makes everyone a little vapid and stupid. Likewise, stand in the company of John Gill, or Tom Higins, and the light greatly improves, the beauty of the world becomes more evident, what good you have in you begins to expand within you, desirous of life. I admit I should not have said a word in reply to Wes, but sometimes in moments of weakness or fatigue I get sucked through the black hole into the world of someone like that... You seem so "together," though, youself. Not a rough edge to be found, as you offer up your playful condescensios.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 23, 2007 - 12:01pm PT
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"Actually
If you really look hard you will see that weschrist is a mirror.
Everything you respond to it reflects back at your own self.
It's not that weschrist is blowing it, the responders are blowing it."
as usual, werner nails it. the artist formerly known as "wes" will disappear from this thread as soon as you start ignoring him.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 23, 2007 - 12:10pm PT
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Seems as though one is always meeting people who are primarily thinking about how to bring out the best in the people around them. They are everywhere. Pat mentions two superb examples. The only challenge is to bridge, as best one can, the time spent in between.
Edit
Werner/bvb are close to the mark. Well to remember, however, our specie is unique for its duplicity. There are even shapechangers among us. Find the intent and you have found the source.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2007 - 12:17pm PT
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Werner does the same as the rest of us...his approach is just a little different.
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 23, 2007 - 12:27pm PT
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I rarely ever see what I want to see. I see what is revealed to me, moment by moment, and often it's exactly what I wish I didn't have to see. Spending a little time with Frost and Robbins, Pratt, Rearick, Kor, Gill, and others, as a young lad, I began to see and sense myself by comparison, and how bad I wanted to rise above the corrupt little twerp I clearly was, to strengthen the better tendencies within myself... My parents didn't teach me integrity, because they made the mistake of thinking I would have it, as did they. I had to learn it, though, every step of the way, and I still work at it, sometimes fail, but keep trying. I owe that desire to those who were my examples of integrity, not only my parents but those climbers I was so blessed to fall in with, who were paragons of that mysterious quality. It was a little like chess. Every time I made a blunder I learned something about the game and how not to make that same move again, but the game is infinite, and we are all beginners...
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TwistedCrank
climber
Luxury rehabilitation treatment facility in Boise
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Jul 23, 2007 - 12:38pm PT
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Point made. NM. Return to your lives citizens.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2007 - 12:42pm PT
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Dingus wrote:I don't hang on the every word of any of you! Never did really.
Who does??
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 23, 2007 - 12:48pm PT
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No one person here at this site, of any worth, cares about a single thing you say, Wes. They realize that nothing to you is sacred. They just play the game a little with you, because it's so easy to show you how stupid you are. But something Twisted really should consider is that people in the Special Olympics are far superior beings than most (and most of the trolls here) would ever imagine. That's a fact, though it's something Wes and Twisted would never get.
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wootles
climber
Gamma Quadrant
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Jul 23, 2007 - 12:53pm PT
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TwistedCrank, I sort of find your post a little offensive.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 23, 2007 - 12:58pm PT
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although this thread has utterly imploded in terms of big bobby d's original intent, it has, for me anyhow, been an utterly fascinating dialectic on the topic of internet communication -- and how easily it is for wires to get crossed on internet forums.
i've know wes for many years, and he is one of my dearest freinds. wes is a soulful dude, a deep thinker, and a man who does not write poetry -- he chooses instead, as another freind of mine once said, to live it. we all live poetry.
i've know oli -- not personally, but through his writing and filmmaking -- for well over three decades, and he is without question a seminal role model in my life. in my youth i was utterly fascinated with writing and bouldering. but when i discovered pat ament's writing it all went into hyperdrive. i had nerve wrack point memorized when i was 17 years old, and can still quote whole passages from memory.
i immediately attempted to mimic oli's writing style -- i still have my old journals from the mid-70's and a lot of that stuff sounds like it could have been written for a "bad ament" contest. as well, every single time i went bouldering "master of rock" weighed heavily on my mind. without ever having met the dudes, i was a full-blown ament/gill groupie, and proud of it.
so, how is it that two people i so admire can be going at it on the fukking inTARDweb, with no end in sight? i really have no idea what either of you guys are up to.
the really amazing thing about what i've read here in this thread is this: i know for a fact that if weschrist and oli were to meet around a campfire, knowing nothing of the other, inside of 15 minutes they'd probably be so deeply embroiled in conversation that the rest of the world would cease to exist.
people are so...i dunno.
go figure.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2007 - 01:11pm PT
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Wes...what do you think of these (lycra)? Notice the thick head of hair in each photo. Early to mid 30's.
Sorry you loss (hair) your at such an early age.
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
Back in the mix
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Jul 23, 2007 - 01:19pm PT
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wes, I call bullsh#t, you did not get banned at b.com. You claimed on the utah bb that you were "taking a break" from b.com as a personal choice.
For everyone else, more lube will prevent such chafing butthurtness.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2007 - 01:19pm PT
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5.7...somewhere in CO.
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
Back in the mix
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Jul 23, 2007 - 02:49pm PT
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Plus a couple of them have actually climbed something prouder than an oversize pebble, making their accomplishments that much prouder and easier to poke fun at.
Is sepiku like bukkake?
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seamus mcshane
climber
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Jul 23, 2007 - 05:59pm PT
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Weschrist and Steph Davis forever!!!
Part 2, I just want to say FOAD.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 23, 2007 - 08:26pm PT
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Sorry bvb but I call B.S. on your post.
WussCrass does not have the intellectual ammunition to hold a meaningful discussion with the likes of Oli. And his crass disrespect for anything besides himself would be clear to Oli and he would keep his distance.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 23, 2007 - 08:49pm PT
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WussCrass I know your type too well. Stepping on cockroaches is one of my favorite sports. Care to play piss ant?
Understand Wussie that if you insist on spewing your bouldering crash pad fag bile on others you will never hear the end of it from me. Yeah I am ticked off. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you came from or at least stop being such a prick!
You don't like historical reminiscing fine just shut your pie hole.
Oh and you are doing such a fine job of making friends and influencing people here at the Taco Stand your mommy must be so proud.
I know you could impress us all by practicing simultaneous sepiku and bukake. Need a spot big boy?
What are you the only one permitted to sh#t on those you don't know? I thought you made this "open season"
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 23, 2007 - 08:55pm PT
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philo, i'm not into pissing matches these days. it's not a mindful way of living, and i'm working hard to change the way my mind perceives the world.
and really, if internet forums raise so much anger in you, maybe you need to give that some thought.
because.....
it ain't.
and you're dead wrong about wes. he's a good guy.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2007 - 09:09pm PT
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BVB wrote:it ain't.
and you're dead wrong about wes. he's a good guy.
I can't wait to meet the little sh#t in person.
What he really is two-faced. All he had to do take his own advice and skip over and ingore any comment on this thread.
Instead he pulled a Lox. Lox and Wes...internet twins.
I am sick of people as using the "internet" to justity any and every action. This is a climbing site and most people on are only seperated by one or two degrees.
WTF ever happened to mutual respect??
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 23, 2007 - 09:19pm PT
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twins...seperated at birth??
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 23, 2007 - 09:25pm PT
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WussCrass may be the nicest c*#k roach on the planet but he is still a c*#k roach. The loser made unprovoked attacks on people I personally respect and care for. He also doesn't know when to stop. Several posters asked him nicely to stop. Several posters tried to get Bob D's thread back on track and then Wussie just had to step in again. He can't be too bright now can he?
In 30-40 years when he is an oldster NO ONE will give a crap for anything he did. Why does he have such a problem with keeping quiet while others voice appreciation and respect for the shoulders they stand on?
To my perspective he is a callous mean spirited intellectually challenged piss ant.
Here is a suggestion' If WussCrass is such a buddy of yours consider telling him to excercise a modicum of restraint. Or better yet tell him to STFU!
I don't mind shovelling his sh#t back on him. Hell I can hire a team of people to constantly interfere with his holiness's cyber time. So I ask what is WussCrass's game or is he just a born again PISS ANT!
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 23, 2007 - 09:28pm PT
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Yeah right WussCrass
If you weren't getting upset (as you stated on an earlier post) then why open your screaming howler in the first place?
Grow a penis PISS ANT.
Do you Dingus? Do you?
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2007 - 09:31pm PT
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Wes wrote:bob d'Antonio, with all do respect, I had no reason to walk away, I wasn't the one getting all upset about sh#t. It is the internet... f*#k.
F*#k you and your lack of respect. It might be the internet but it is also Supertopo and not boldering.com. Your lame ass just thinks it Wessie little playground to piss and sh#t in his pants anytime he wants and the rest of the people have to put up with stench.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2007 - 09:40pm PT
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Dingus wrote: A lot of people his age have no respect for the Boomers and 'their ilk.'
Another lame ass excuse for his behavior.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 23, 2007 - 09:41pm PT
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OK weschrist I am asking you nicely please delete your posts on Bob D's thread. I will do the same. Ball is in your court.
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John Moosie
climber
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Jul 23, 2007 - 09:43pm PT
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Wes writes "If anyone would have asked nicely, I would have deleted my posts"
Anyone believe this?
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 23, 2007 - 09:44pm PT
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Bob D I have a lot of respect for you. Why not start this thread anew? hopefully weschrist will play nice.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 23, 2007 - 09:49pm PT
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Holy fukin sh#t
What a freakin pissing match.
Where's my damn baseball bat?
I got fastballs to hit into left center and liners down the right field baseline.
We need 17 more guys for a real fukin game.
Instead they're all over at SuperTopo.com bitching about gawd knows what?
Hey hey where the fuk are you guys? I'm waiting over here at the ball park .....
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 23, 2007 - 09:50pm PT
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I should have known. Game on!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 23, 2007 - 09:51pm PT
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i'm going to delete all my posts, too. including this one.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2007 - 09:52pm PT
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Phil...Wes knew what he was doing from the start.
Here is his first post.
Wes wrote:Wow, old people who climbed on rocks back in the muthafukin day... and now spray embellished accounts of their experiences between meager attempts to rekindle their youthful drive by searching for internet porn.
I feel so honored to be sitting on the other end of this network of tubes connecting us.
Please share your political views with us all. I mean, if you were able to do 11c X in EB's, surely you know everything there is to know about the way the world works.
He wanted this from start. That why young teenage boys sh#t their pants sometimes...for attention.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 23, 2007 - 09:56pm PT
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Bob you are sooooo right.
It was that first post of his that pissed me off so much.
And Dingus I thought you were going to dare me.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 23, 2007 - 09:57pm PT
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phil, shouldn't your last post read "Flame On!" ?
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 23, 2007 - 09:57pm PT
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is that true(about kids poohing to get attention)?
I mean...I have heard about teenaged boys pooping in the bag, lighting it afire and setting it on a doorstep, ringing and running. For laughs.
I have heard about college aged guys supposedly puuting a pile of poop in the tank of a toilet and letting it fester. For revenge.
I have heard of guys filling thier pants on lead when the going gets rough(only guys; have never heard a woman pantsfiller story). Out of control fear.
I even once had a boss who said she would put a crap in a Tiffany box, tie it with the famous Tiffany bow, and have it delivered to someone. For spite.
But never about a kid crapping for attention.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2007 - 10:04pm PT
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Wes wrote: Maybe Bob d'Antontio still has the power to start the whole thing over again? You can all save a copy and reminisce about how it took like 10 of you to call me a bunch of names before realizing you could ask nicely.
Your backhanded insults started this sh#t pile.You had flame intent from the start...grown up and admit it!
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
Back in the mix
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Jul 23, 2007 - 10:07pm PT
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Wow, few years back I used to go round and round this joint with Kodos and this cat, Bobby D. It was fun, funny, and mean spirited. Both gave good as they got. Now Kodos got banned and Bobby D reads like the Martha Stewart of climbing forums...wtf Bob, I thought you were a tough SOB from South Filthy?
Are you really gonna play it like you never trolled anyone or dropped inappropriate childish comments into peoples threads BITD?
Say it ain't so...
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 23, 2007 - 10:07pm PT
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Oh yeah happiegirl kids do do doo doo for atention. Some even smear it all over everything including themselves.
See WussCrass for example.
And your wrong WussCrass, YOU STARTED THIS MESS!
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2007 - 10:11pm PT
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Blow wrote: Are you really gonna play it like you never trolled anyone or dropped inappropriate childish comments into peoples threads BITD?
Say it ain't so...
No I'm not...I know the time and place. I can take the gloves off anytime.
WTF with the Eagles??
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2007 - 10:22pm PT
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Wes wrote: Dude, it was a f*#king joke. Yes it was backhanded and yes it was intended to get a reaction, but I never expected anyone to get so f*#king worked up.
Yeah, I'll grow up and admit it. Now you grow up and get over it. Why are you so worried about what I have to say anyway?
Didn't matter who said it.
I'm ready to move on.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 23, 2007 - 10:25pm PT
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You mean your mommy is telling you it's jammy time.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 23, 2007 - 10:30pm PT
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Weschrist, You busted in and took a steaming dump in the middle of the living room of some very remarkable people. Now you want them to say it smelled sweet.
How delusional are you? What do you respect? Who the hell do you think you are that you can denigrate Pat Ament, Jeff Lowe and Bob DAntonio? What have you accomplished thats so great that your sh#t don't stink. Get a penis and grow up.
Oh and good job of plagiarizing the uncredited lyrics. The music industry looks real kindly on theft of intellectual property.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 23, 2007 - 10:54pm PT
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Me too Dingus me too.
peace
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 23, 2007 - 11:04pm PT
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I know Dingus I know.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jul 23, 2007 - 11:14pm PT
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what a great thread! Thanks all for the laffs.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jul 23, 2007 - 11:19pm PT
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"...and you're dead wrong about wes. he's a good guy..."
BVB,
I already tried that. They're just not buyin' it.
Curt
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 23, 2007 - 11:37pm PT
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I was hoping the "don't feed the troll" advice would stick but since it didn't, I have a few remarks.
First, It's obvious that WesChrist=LEB. The symptom is taking numerous threads and making them about him rather than any subject. Personally, I like the thought provoking threads that wes posts, but lately it seems that defensiveness has robbed him of his ability to contribute.
This thread wasn't about who is the greatest climber. I think I got mentioned in the beginning and everybody knows that I'm nobody. It was a positive appreciation of folks who have been around a long time and can give perspective to the sport from seeing it's evolution over time (History)
Seems like Wes felt like it was making an elitist statment that somehow excluded him and the "little guys" (if I try to give him credit for that)
That smacks of insecurity to me. Nobody was putting anybody down or out until Wes arrived. Supertopo is great in that we commonly have threads supporting different folks contributions here. It's a positive thing and encourages more postive contributions.
So a sudden entrance with negative put-downs is naturally regarded as an insult and a negativity. Wes, you make good points sometimes but when the feeling is about "me, me, me" it's just petty.
Keep making us think but don't make us think about you, you, you, or you'll lose you own self respect. Once you get locked in a cycle of defensiveness, you lose your power but don't even know it cause you're caught up in tits for tats.
Take a time out and come back with some more good ideas that don't focus on you, your ego, pride, and hubris.
Peace
karl
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John Moosie
climber
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Jul 23, 2007 - 11:40pm PT
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Wes=LEB yep, thats what I thought too. LOL
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jstan
climber
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Jul 23, 2007 - 11:52pm PT
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Wes has been out for an hour and fifteen minutes now. Have you guys got the next phase planned out? Better get cracking.
The next step will have one or two red herrings attached to the main thrust so you will have to take the time needed to sort it out. Then you will need to play potential moves down several layers to avoid traps. All of the instant uncoordinated activity makes it look as though your honorable opposition is playing to a thirty move horizon. I would guess it is about a three move horizon. So carry your scenarios out at least four or five moves. Just like on a hard climb with no protection for thirty feet. But you know how all that goes.
I have one comment about living history gained from something a friend said when an introduction gave him more praise than he was comfortable accepting. As he stood up to talk he asked, "Does that mean I have to die now?" I don't need to mention any names.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2007 - 12:13pm PT
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Khanom...you and Werner are wrong. Last year was a rough year for climbers...we have loss a number of good people.
My OP was just a simple way of showing a little respect and saying thanks to the many people who have shaped and made contributions to our sport while I still had the chance too.
Pretty simple...
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jstan
climber
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Jul 24, 2007 - 12:38pm PT
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Agreed. It has been a very bad year. We have to learn how to do better. Almost everyone here has lost at least one good friend.
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rmuir
Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Jul 24, 2007 - 09:23pm PT
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WBraun cleverly said, "Where's my damn baseball bat? I got fastballs to hit into left center and liners down the right field baseline. We need 17 more guys for a real fukin game. Instead they're all over at SuperTopo.com bitching about gawd knows what? Hey hey where the fuk are you guys? I'm waiting over here at the ball park .....
At first, I thought Werner was gonna take that bat to someone's head! [grin]
I vividly recall a pickup baseball game in the Valley sometime in the early/mid 70's... I believe Werner was there, among others. We had at least 18 guys, and the afternoon weather was perfect for America's Favorite Pastime over at the Village School field. A few shared gloves, lots of beer, and even a jug of communal wine was parked near the dugout.
Problem was, somewhere around the top o' the sixth inning a bear of sizable girth lumbered from out of center field and moseyed casually across second base. The critter acted like he owned the place. (Maybe he even shat on our game, just to prove his point.) He wasn't invited, nor was he welcomed. He certainly wasn't amenable to suggestion.
We didn't attack the interloper with the bats; we didn't get all hot-and-bothered. We laughingly all just walked away. Somewhat quickly... End of game. (I think we gathered up all the wine and headed to the Wine Traverse Boulder for other diversions.) We found our fun elsewhere. Good times, none the less.
There's a moral there somewhere...
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 24, 2007 - 09:34pm PT
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rob muir. perfect example of a living legend. and that story you just told, rob, is what this thread is truly all about.
it's NOT about the ins and outs of internet "etiquette". it's not about trolls. it's not about crossed wires.
it's about the largos and muirs and d'antonio's and grammicis and kevin worrals of our little world, still alive and kicking and active and here to lay down in a running oral history the seminal events of the last 40 years in americal climbing. in my experience it is absolutely unique.
when chris jones broke his leg skiing and spent his recoup time writing "climbing in north america", what kind of book could he have produced if he had live, real-time, interactive round-table discussion with all the major players at his fingertips?
like we do here?
food for thought.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jul 24, 2007 - 09:42pm PT
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I don't know bvb, Chris sort of did have lots of access, at least compared to most climbers of his time. He certainly knew most everyone either from climbing with them, drinking with them, or skiing with them.
I think I get your point about the benefits of the net, but I don't think Chris was too much hampered. Besides, Chris would never find it very interesting to report 'juicy' personality tidbits. Sort of proper.
Best, Roger
PS: What do you say, Chris? Care to respond yourself, you old goat. Hee he.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 24, 2007 - 10:21pm PT
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and i get your point, roger.
more to the point: chris was never able to engage all the players on a 24/7 conference call -- he had to call folks, or meet 'em at a bar, individually. it's more interactive here.
even more to the point:
peopole like ROGER FUKKIN' BREEDLOVE and WERNER BRAUN take the time to respond to something i wrote. even remember my name.
that's the amazing thing about the tacostand. truly. it's like a first-year grad student in physics getting to trade e-mails with fermi or einstien or oppenheimer.
maybe the "kids" who started climbing in the 80's just don't get it. but i do. i've wandered the intrenet for years.
music sites. math sites. poetry sites.
this place is pretty much unique in that you can write something, hit "send", and unexpectedly have one of the folks who were monumentally influential in the field send you a personal response.
bob d is right on....supertopo in an absolute phenomena. many of the threads, such as the "stonemasters" thing, were amazing.
imagine a baseball forum where you got to trade thoughts with dimaggio? never happen.
but climbers, as a rule, are far more humble, far more down-to-earth.
personally, i attribute this to the extraordinarily dangerous nature of top-flight climbing in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. when you've heard the flutter of angel wings in your ears a few dozen times, it truly brings home your place on the earth, and your humanity. it makes you more willing to engage your youngers, those who are still struggling on the path...because maybe you understand the luck that you lived through it, and your responsibility to impart that which you suspect you may beleive or know on those who still struggle on that path.
i'm drunk, btw.
burn this post.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2007 - 10:25pm PT
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Supertopo is like many campfires that I never had the chance to sit at. Many people on this site are friends and peers. Some I have climbed with and most I have have not. It a chance to connect and talk about things that we share and stories about people we love and care about.
I am glad you folks are keeping the fire alive. You inspired me back then and you do now. Hope you all well and things in your lives are good.
Later, Bob
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Jul 24, 2007 - 10:25pm PT
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good post bvb - good thoughts and so true.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 24, 2007 - 10:33pm PT
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Awe c'mon guys we gota stop all this fuzzy yakin in this thread and go out and kick some ass.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2007 - 10:40pm PT
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Werner...two new routes today. One was 5.8 and the other 5.11d.
I ain't stopping till they burn my body and even then I'll float on...somewhere!
Later, Bob
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 24, 2007 - 10:56pm PT
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Werner may have been hoping for a (virtual) group hug. Rumour has it that he's all fuzzy and warm and cuddly, sort of like #46.
bvb - Right on. I've met "famous" people of various kinds. Climbers are much the most egalitarian.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 24, 2007 - 11:00pm PT
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bvbv wrote: "imagine a baseball forum where you got to trade thoughts with dimaggio? never happen."
...exactly. Drunk or not, bvb, you are right on. That is exactly the thing that makesSupertopo so super.
Can anyone thing of even one other place where the S/Topo Experience is replicated?
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 24, 2007 - 11:02pm PT
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I can name a million of them
But you will knott believe even one of them ......
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 24, 2007 - 11:05pm PT
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a million, you say?
How about just the one?
Werner....some day I hope to get to meet you in 3-d.
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 25, 2007 - 05:25am PT
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I think Super 8 is just fine.
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Looney
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Jul 25, 2007 - 09:07am PT
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Dang. I was ready and waiting for a group hug.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jul 25, 2007 - 09:19am PT
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Hey Crimpy, do you know what time it is? Punch the snooze button, forcryingoutloud.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 25, 2007 - 02:28pm PT
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Bvb’s post has so much in it that is real, I have to say something,
Early on in climbing I had to ask myself, "What is truly important here?" I got a really weird answer. Normal life causes people to put on a cloak, if you will, that helps them move through their daily tasks with other people, and to do it with less exposure. Some even use the cloak to cover an agenda, here and there. Nasty…. All of that gets stripped away as soon as one’s ass is hung out somewhere up there on million year old rock. What you see there is pretty close to what you got. Mind you, I saw some stuff up there I did not particularly like. When younger my immediate response was to make myself scarce. Out the back, Jack. Then all hell broke loose. I noticed that despite all the things I did not like about myself, the near "perfect" people were going out of their way to be kind to me. For no reason at all. I was in serious trouble. Those perfect people were not choosing to go out the back.
Climbing has always been changing and it will continue to change. I do hope it retains the ability to strip away the cloaks we draw over ourselves.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 25, 2007 - 02:33pm PT
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Good stuff.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Jul 25, 2007 - 02:47pm PT
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Great post BVB. And who better to say it than "An American Legend, YO!"
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jul 25, 2007 - 03:02pm PT
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imagine a baseball forum where you got to trade thoughts with dimaggio? never happen.
but climbers, as a rule, are far more humble, far more down-to-earth.
You want an example? In the mid-80s I was asked to take over as editor of the Canadian Alpine Journal. I'd been climbing for ten or twelve years, mostly at Squamish, had put up a couple of routes, and knew a few of the local hardguys/girls but was in no way anything more than just another anonymous climber.
But to get the CAJ back on track (it had become a kind of West Coast Mountain Rambling Journal) I had to go to Calgary and start knocking on the doors of the Famous Rockies Climbers. I thought they'd all just tell me to f*ck off, but every single one of them -- without exception -- was warm, friendly, and welcoming. These guys, at that time, were some of the hardest alpine climbers in the world, but their attitude seemed to be "Hey, as long as you love to climb, you're one of us."
Since then, I've seen the same reaction over and over. When the Joe DiMaggios/Michael Jordans of the climbing world see some gumby stuggling on a 5.easy chosspile, or even blocking their path, what they do is shout encouragement and helpful advice.
I'm sure there are exceptions, and I'm sure some of you will be able to dredge up an example of Mr/Ms Hardguy being rude to some Fred, but to a degree far greater than any other area of life that I know of, climbers are willing to make room for the newguy at the campfire.
David
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jul 26, 2007 - 11:02am PT
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Here is a fun story.
My old friend and Black Canyon climbing partner Tom Pulaski came to Boulder to enroll his son in college at CU. We all got together and decided to go to the BRC (rock gym) for some fun. I was running late as motivating 3 kids is akin to herding kittens. When I finally got to the gym there was Tom with a sheepish grin standing in a corner. He looks right at me and says "I flunked my belay test". I couldn't help myself and burst out laughing almost hysterically.
You see the irony is that Tom has decades of extreme experience on routes that would wither the ball sack of most of us. The kid who administered the test had probably been climbing indoors for 2 years. I would trust Tom with my life on any route. Where as I would NOT trust the kid to belay me on a top rope.
I have seen the lame and lazy belay techniques of gym rats and it makes me shudder.
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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Jul 26, 2007 - 01:09pm PT
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Pretty funny story about the Gym there.
I had a similar experience last Fall when my wife and I and oldest son joined. I barely past the test and my companions failed pretty bad which was a reflection on me because I was the one who was suppose to have shown them the ropes. My wife an old school hip belayer has caught a couple of hellaish falls of mine with gear pulling and all but still has a hard time with the ATC concept. We all worked through it but the more I watched our new learned technique the more flaws I saw in it. So a few months go by and she gets a lecture I can hear while I’m up on top of something. Seems she had a lazy break hand and wouldn’t move it like the rest of the people in the gym (except the instructors who basically did it the same) after all that I tell her I would prefer her to belay me than any one else there. You see she really pays attention and has a sixth sense about when I may really the belay which now a days is quite a bit. I’m hoping my son gets that status soon since he’s leading the crux pitches but tends to leave me with the run out ones. I will use the ATC but I’m also quick to use a hip belay with directional’s if I’m bringing up someone quick.
In all comes back around, I get to show these guys how to put Nuts in, they act like it’s a lost art.
Mike
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 26, 2007 - 01:11pm PT
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I think what stands out for me about our tribe is the generosity and decency of the elders. As a person who barely made it into the category (as someone recently posted) of "minor luminary," I am eternally grateful for the attention and friendship lavished on me, pretty much a nobody, by many of the major players of my time.
I had the astonishing good fortune to climb, boulder, and/or hang out with my betters, a minor-league player welcomed by the stars of the big leagues: Jim McCarthy, Dick Williams, Art Gran, Hans Kraus, Fritz Wiessner, Matt Hale, Dave Roberts, John Stannard, Rich Romano, Yvon Chouinard, Royal Robbings, Chuck Pratt, Bob Kamps, Tom Higgins, John Gill, Pat Ament, Chris Bonnington, Don Whillans, Doug Scott, Peter Haan, Mark Klemens, Barry Bates, JIm Bridwell, Henry Barber, Steve Wunsch, and my cragging partner of more than 20 years, John Bragg. I don't think there is any other activity in which a minor luminary would have had the chance to hang with the gods.
I remember going to Fontainbleau in 1970 and almost immediately being taken under the wing of the locals, being shown all the cool problems, being deluged with beta to make sure I got up them, and being taken to secret "refuges" carved out under giant boulders deep in the forest.
I remember being waved off a winding dirt road in the Bregalia by Italian climbers who were picnicing. Seeing the climbing gear in the window and the superimposed American flag and peace sign on the bumper, they invited us to join them and share their feast.
I remember Pat Ament teaching me offwidth technique (my subsequent failure to get any good at it is not his fault) and showing me how to anchor with clove hitches. I remember Chuck Pratt taking me aside and telling me that he thought I should be ready for several pitches of 5.9 on the Salathe-Steck, regardless of the fact that Roper had downgraded almost all of them to 5.8 in his guidebook. I remember Dick Williams chastising me for using too little protection on relatively easy ground. I remember Jim McCathy slapping on a pair of prussiks and then hand-over-handing up stuck rappel ropes, with occasional pauses to move up the prussiks, in the midst of a horrendous lightning storm in the Wind Rivers.
I remember the yearly meetings of the Needles Society, as Bob and Bonnie Kamps, John and Lora Gill, and I, joined by others (Mark and Beverly Powell, Dave Rearick) convened, like magic, from the four quadrants of the compass and with no explicit prearrangement, every August, in the Oreville Campground between Custer and Hill City.
I remember Glenn Exum sheparding a wide-eyed kid just out of middle school up the Exum Ridge of the Grand, and Barry Corbet sheparding a year older but even more wide-eyed kid up the Southwest Ridge of Symmetry Spire. Who knew that such things were possible for the human body, the human spirit?
These memories, and hundreds of others over a period that is approaching fifty years, remind me that climbers have always been part of a virtual network, long before the internet gave it a technological life. And when I think of the accumulated kindness I've been privileged to bask in, the occasional nastiness transmitted by the electronic incarnation of the climbing network seems so minor; a mere blip on a screen flooded with good will.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2007 - 01:38pm PT
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Rich is being some what modest. My first visit to the Gunks was in the mid-70's. I drove up from Philly for a few days as my wife and I were visiting family in the area.
My first contact was with Kevin Bein at the Gay 90's. I heard him talking to a table about climbing. I asked him he if knew about the climbing and he said yes. Alway outgoing and friendly...Kevin asked me where I was from and I said New Mexico (at the time) and asked me if I had anyone to climb with. I said no. He told me to meet him at the Uberfall at 2pm and that started a friendship that had/has lasted til this day. Not knowing Kevin...I soon found out what a great talent he was. Small compared to the size of his heart. Kevin was (by far) one of the most wonderful people I have the pleasure of knowing.
Walking down the Carriage road one day with Kevin he stop to talk to some way strong looking fellow who was bouldering. The guy had dark hair, a beard and had his shirt off... muscles were popping out everywhere. After a little chit chat we continue on... I asked Kevin who the guy was and he say it was Rich Goldstone...one of the best boulderers in the country and one of the best climbers at the Gunks.
He was right!
Rich...how is Bragg doing? Tell him hi for me.
I think I will be in the Gunks in Oct for a little get together. Do you know about it??
Hope you are well...Later, Bob
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 26, 2007 - 03:11pm PT
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My friendship with Kevin Bein, the Mayor of the Gunks, goes back to the time he was in high-school and I was in college. Kevin seemed indestructible. During those early days, he visited me at my parent's apartment, and we soon embarked on a feats of strength contest, which he won only because he destroyed the apparatus, ripping off my door jam and plummeting to the floor in a cloud of plaster dust and wood splinters. Kevin was unhurt. My parents were not amused.
Some years later, we were at it again. This time it was the triple front lever. McCarthy is on top; he does a front lever on the rings at the West Side "Y" in NYC. I do a front lever on McCarthy's shoulders, and Kevin does a front lever on my shoulders. At this point, Mac is holding up close to 400 lbs of prime beef, and not unsurprisingly, he suffers a sudden loss of contact with the rings. The assembled circus plummets to the mat (maintaining, of course, perfect form all the way down) with Kevin on the bottom. Kevin is unhurt. The primarily gay clientele of the gym takes one look and figures we were the cutting edge of rough trade sex. For weeks we get various obscene invitations from our fellow gym users.
A few months later, armed with the knowledge that McCarthy can't hold the three of us when hanging from rings, we decide to perform the feat at a Vulgarian party with the rings replaced by a door jamb at the top of a flight of stairs. Vulgarian parties being what they were, we had all ingested varying amounts of judgement-distorting substances, but we also knew that the indestructible Kevin Bein, as the guy on the bottom, had our backs. Quite literally.
Well, you know what happened. We barely have the triple lever going for a second or two when McCarthy blows off the door jam and the three of us ride Kevin down the flight of stairs to an ignominious pile-up at the bottom. Kevin is unhurt. Vulgarian applause is sustained. Distorted judgement notwithstanding, we decline all exhortations for an encore.
As many of you know, this ongoing story does not have a happy ending. Human life, even the kind that burns in the most indestructible of us, is in reality fragile. Kevin was killed on the Matterhorn when the anchor he was rappelling from pulled. His untimely death left a hole in our hearts that has never completely scarred over.
Sometimes, bouldering by myself in the Gunks, I would fall and found myself magically spotted. Kevin had quietly walked up the carriage road, stepped forward, and caught me. All these years later, I sometimes momentarily feel, just for a fleeting instant, the light touch of a hand in the small of my back, and as a swirl of wind stirs up the fall leaves, I think of Kevin.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 26, 2007 - 03:29pm PT
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Bob,
Didn't see your questions.
Bragg is fine. We are growing old together. I am winning.
Haven't heard anything about a get-together. Keep me informed.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2007 - 03:40pm PT
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Rich...here is good picture of Kevin, me and Elliot at the Uberfall sometime in 1980.
Always smiling.
I really miss him.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 26, 2007 - 03:46pm PT
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I remember Kevin Bein. He couldn't lead anymore when I met him due to some psychological fear of falling or some such. He top roped everything.
He was an extremely generous and wonderful nice man. He had thin girlfriend or was he married back then, ...... can't remember.
I did not know he died on the Matterhorn.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2007 - 03:49pm PT
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Werner...Kevin took a bad fall and also had a problem with seizures...He recovered from both and was leading 5.12's in the late 70's and early 80's.
That was his wife Barbara...the first woman to lead 5.12.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 26, 2007 - 03:51pm PT
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And in the background in Bob's photo is, I think, then ranger now guidebook author Todd Swain.
Here is a picture I have posted before of Kevin in action on Matinee, in the early days before nuts.
Note the helmet; certainly a very uncommon thing for an American rock-climber in the sixties. Some people think he wore that forty-pound tea kettle in order to build up his neck muscles. This is false. Kevin had taken a few ground falls in the Gunks, landing on his head at least twice. The Mohonk Preserve had become concerned about the ecological damage the ground was suffering from Kevin's skull, so, in a conciliatory gesture, Kevin took to wearing a helmet in order to soften the impact on local vegetation.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 26, 2007 - 04:00pm PT
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Hahahaha funny Rgold
And thanks to both you and Bob D for those nice posts.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jul 26, 2007 - 04:43pm PT
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Great story telling, Rich. I can remember how surprised I was at how organized and grown up you Easterns seemed to be. A strange concept for a California bred, Valley climber--even the Vulgarians, who organized their farces and put out a magazine. Grown up rebels, so to speak.
Great posts.
Best, Roger
PS: Give a big hello to John for me. It has been a long time.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jul 26, 2007 - 04:55pm PT
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I wish you would write more stories, Rich. Like long ones. We'd all very much appreciate it, I'm sure.
JL
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 26, 2007 - 05:02pm PT
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Most of the Vulgarians moved on to various "conventional" lives. Several PhD's, architects, a few artists, shopkeepers...
When owner Dave Craft was working at the North Light in New Paltz, he had occasion one day to eject a rowdy patron. Reflecting on the incident, he said, "I just threw out someone for behaving the way I used to ten years ago!"
Perhaps the inclination of younger generations to find ways to upset their elders is just part of an inevitable cycle of life. It's their "job" to piss us off and our "job" to be pissed off by them. We will, in time, pass on and they will find themselves, somewhat to their surprise, occupying the positions we vacated, as yet another generation finds its own way to troll the trollers.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2007 - 05:16pm PT
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Bob Dylan...1963
Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.
Bob Dylan 2006
You think I'm over the hill
You think I'm past my prime
Let me see what you got
We can have a whoppin' good time
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jul 26, 2007 - 05:41pm PT
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Happens to the best of them, Bob. When my daughters took to rap and other hopeless noise, I had to remind myself that 'Rock and Roll' is not 'Rock and Roll' and serves no purpose if your parents like it.
Thank goodness for headphones. I used to make my parents listen to Dylan in 1963 on the family phonograph.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 26, 2007 - 06:05pm PT
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...I hadn't clicked this thread in a few days, figuring it was still fizzling f-words.
Ho-lee wow. As a so-far-down-the-scale one in the luminousity department that I am lucky in being able to stand beside the campfire circle and bask in the glow - I have to say those last few posts brought tears to my eyes.
How lucky I am, to have found my own little spot in this galaxy. I have, as does everyone else here, you Supermen to listen to. But I also volunteer over at the preserve a little bit, and because of that I get to hear about the history of the area. I find it pretty damned cool. Thank you all for taking the time to tell it like it was.
(wipes face and averts her eyes) I love you guys!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 26, 2007 - 06:22pm PT
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Slightly off topic, I was wondering if any of those frequenting this thread knew Leif Patterson?
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2007 - 06:27pm PT
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Good Kevin story.
On a particuar snowy and cold day someone asked Kevin what he did that day. Kevin said he went running...the person asked him if it was cold and hard to run in that much snow...Kevin said no.
Told the person that he ran around in his small apartment.
Seems Kevin measure out the living and dining area and ran something like 5,000 laps to equal 4 miles.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Jul 26, 2007 - 07:30pm PT
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Mighty Hiker,
I believe I met him once when he was a professor at UC Davis. I don't know if he is still around.
Ken
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 26, 2007 - 07:37pm PT
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so funny, I just tuned in after work, I can only see the last three posts, I read Bob D''s story about "Kevin", and of course, from the context, I know he means Kevin Bein. What a small world!
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 26, 2007 - 07:47pm PT
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Just hit the 'previous' button. The naughty triple front lever story, alone, would have made my day!
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MikeL
climber
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Jul 26, 2007 - 09:20pm PT
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"Perhaps the inclination of younger generations to find ways to upset their elders is just part of an inevitable cycle of life. It's their "job" to piss us off and our "job" to be pissed off by them. We will, in time, pass on and they will find themselves, somewhat to their surprise, occupying the positions we vacated, as yet another generation finds its own way to troll the trollers."
The smartest and most compassionate thing said here.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jul 26, 2007 - 11:49pm PT
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OK. Now I also feel compelled to tell my favorite Kevin Bein story. In 1981, I was living in Joshua Tree and had driven to San Francisco on business. I felt in no particular hurry to get home--so, I decided to drive across Yosemite, boulder a bit in the meadows and then return to JT via 395.
While bouldering in Tuolumne, I happened to run across Kevin and Barb, who I had climbed with before in the SD Needles. They asked me to stay and climb with them the next day, but I told them I was totally unprepared (having no sleeping bag, etc.) as I was just planning to get in a couple hours of bouldering on my long drive home. Kevin then told me that they had an extra sleeping bag--so I did indeed stay over and climb the following day.
What I only found out later was that the "extra" sleeping bag was Barb's and they spent that night together in a single bag so that I could have hers.
That's the kind of people Kevin and Barb were.
Curt
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 27, 2007 - 12:00am PT
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I'm sitting here after a day of cragging, with ice on knees & elbows, a beer open and am savoring a good feeling from a physical day, a special day. You see, I was out with Chiloe in Eldorado Canyon and afterwards we stopped in to see his old climbing buddy Paul Sibley. They had not seen each other for over 30 years, so some good stories flowed and friendships picked up where they left off.
Nice to see this thread get back in the groove.
Let the life blood flow.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 27, 2007 - 01:02am PT
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It may be that this climbing thing ranks among the more important movements of our lives. Especially this is so for those of us who did it to the exclusion of all else, well rooted in a bohemian striving once galvanized during the Golden Age.
And yes, it carries forth deeply for current generations, for the likes of House, Potter, Sharma: still for younger pad totin’ rebels the beat goes on.
Last week I went out on a long ridge traverse at 13,000’; swift, high, & alone this body I steward found its way along the precipice. A sense of urgency permeates the consciousness in those ethereal & ancient places. The next day I went looking for boulders on Ute Pass below Pikes Peak; while high above, my wife was repeatedly running the final miles to the summit of Pikes, performing intervals in the clouds. Down below I set out to find the Ute boulders and walking alone in the brush, unproductively ambling through the grainy erratics, I heard young voices.
It changed everything. They hid their pipes as I approached and I quickly eased them into a familiarity by asking them to share their smoke and what followed was that wonderful thing that happens when climbers come together, striving to unfold their adventures, pushing themselves, living a life on the fingertips, unlocking sequences, searing their minds to the call of the stone.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Jul 27, 2007 - 01:08am PT
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Nice words Roy.
Ken
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 27, 2007 - 03:45am PT
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Rich, you always bring such good light. I too have many cherished memories of our climbing together on so many occasions. I remember when your forearm turned into a pizza, literally, in appearance, bubbling and juicy, from the poison ivy we ripped away with our hands in the Black Canyon. I will never forget the climb we did in the Royal Gorge, the little ledge we sat on that night, under the bridge, with starlight and the rattle of the occasional car going across. The bouldering was always in a great spirit. I don't remember teaching you about offwidth climbing, but maybe I did. I was doing a lot of that back then. Of all those people you named, few could rightfully be called your "betters," as you say. Maybe in some specific way or other, some specialty. Part of your and my connection is that we both were disciples of Gill, which kind of made us a part of a certain school of climbing, a brotherhood, if you will, blessed to have the master as our good friend... and thus to be linked in spirit. When you came to visit me in Colorado and climb, it was a very happy time for me...
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2007 - 12:38pm PT
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The Gunks in the mid-to-late 70's was a special place. John Stannard was freeing old aid routes at a rapid pace and Henry Barber, John Bragg and Steve Wunsch were doing their share to raise standards...the rest of us would be in awe and try to repeat what ever routes we could in somewhat good style.
Kevin talked me in going to Tomorrow, Tomorrow (5.11R) with him and Barabra one summer morning in 1978... a route freed by JS and a second ascent by Henry Barber.
What in hell were we doing there??
The route is a hard to protect seam with thin face climbing that goes right after about 40-50 feet up to ledge and belay below a roof. We do the usual up and down placing gear and trying our hardest to not do the route. Kevin fires in some crack-ups before the crux and then comes down and test the little buggers...they hold body weight. False security is better than none.
My turn...up I go and by some act of higher powers I make it past the crux and right to good hold. Looking back I see the crack-up slowly move then fall dowm the rope. Pacic hits and it hits hard...the next move seems impossible...I go up down and few times and then tell Kevin that I am coming down and to catch me.
Panic hits him...he tell me no and to try the move one more time and that there is a big bucket past the move. I regroup...pull and bingo ...a perfect bucket and safe terrain and the anchor.
I set the anchor and come down...thank Kevin and he tell me great job as he ties in to go up. I asked him how he knew there was a bucket up there...and with that little smirk/smile of his on his face says...I didn't...but I sure hell didn't want to catch you.
Kevin had a way of making you think you could do a route no matter what. His support was never ending and to someone like me...almost dangerous. I had several near misses with Kevin that summer and years later in the Needles and in Colorado...he had a way of making you think you were the best!
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 27, 2007 - 06:26pm PT
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Bob, that's a funny story about Kevin.
Caylor, the Royal Gorge. I first went there with a couple guys I was more or less teaching, Phil Dean and Ralph Zarnecki. We rappelled and down-climbed into the canyon, walked west along a ledge toward the wall, and one of the fellows promptly sat in a particularly dangerous cactus. It was like having about 40 or more one-inch-long sewing needles stuck full length into various points of his buttox. It was a serious injury and all we could do to get him back out of the canyon. Then I met Fred Pfahler, who had a car and a new bin full of pitons I was determined to test out. He had no experience, but up we went on that steep wall of the Gorge.
To digress, I wrote a postcard to Royal, after doing the climb, and told him we'd climbed the Royal Gorge. He wrote back, "Any relationship to the Robbins gullet?" A bad pun.
So up Fred and I went on the blackish brown, sometimes red rock. One pitch looked scary, and I was not looking forward to leading it so offered it to Fred. It turned out to be the hardest pitch. With me telling him how to jam his hands and how to hammer pitons, etc., he led the pitch. I was relieved he did it.
I returned the next year with Fred, Rich Goldstone, and Bob Williams (the dancer-mathematician from the east, not Boulder's Bob Williams, the swinger boulderer). We did a new route up the steepest part of the wall to the left of the route Fred and I did, going up very vertical rock. They were all learning, and I wanted to practice big wall technique, with two climbing and two prusiking, so we were somewhat slow since they had never prusiked anything, and we didn't have jumars yet. We decided to go slow enough to do a bivouac, reaching a small ledge a hundred or more feet directly below the bridge's northeast end. That was a beautiful bivouac with my friends, lots of stars, good food, the rattle of the boards of the bridge when a car drove over...
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jstan
climber
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Jul 27, 2007 - 08:22pm PT
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I made up a story about a climb on the Slime Wall that, I think, pretty well captures the people. No one thought it was funny 30 years ago. So, of course, I will try again.
McCarthy is lacing up his shoes underneath April Showers or TTT. He looks up,
Jim: "Claude(Suhl), has that been done?".
Feverish leafing through the guide,
Claude: "Hold on a minute Jim." Then, "Yeah Jim. It's been done."
Jim, "Who did it?"
Pause.
Claude: "You did it.".
A longer pause.
Jim: "How hard is it?"
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 27, 2007 - 09:21pm PT
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Ho ho. When we founded the OFMC, we made it one of the entrance requirements that you had to have made the first ascent of the same route twice.
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 29, 2007 - 03:53am PT
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John, is the point of your story that many Gunks climbs look alike? Or that with so much brain stress and climbing, people tend to lose their memory? Or that the passion of climbing is so much the main focus that climbers just do a lot of routes there and don't even pay too much attention to what routes they've done? Or are there other meanings I'm missing?
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jstan
climber
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Jul 29, 2007 - 03:11pm PT
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Oli:
Probably most of those. But it is an actual phenomenon. Richard's comment that this is an entrance requirement for OFMC is true.
What do I think? Historically we have thought doing a route is the rock analog of Whymper on the Matterhorn. And that, after being "Done" each becomes a unique "Creation". I am not so sure anymore.
You know how nutrient gels are fabricated so they are favorable for the growth of bacterial colonies? Perhaps rock routes are an equivalent but the product is a core memory or experience in the mind of the climber. For example, ten feet to the right of the Bachar-Yerian there probably is a similar "route", if one wanted to put one there. But what is the point? A person can go up and do either, to get the same experience or memory, if you will. If you can put them ten feet apart you can as well put them five feet apart, and so on. Such redundancy really only diverts one's attention from that which is important. The experience that can be had there.
Jim has done hundreds of superb routes so the route really is not the point anymore. A beautiful day on excellent rock that is able to give you whatever experience you are seeking. Now that is something no one can forget.
Look at the face of El Capitan. Wouldn't you say that is a "gel" on which we may thrive?
I just read chapter 1 of Jello's amazing “A Solid Companion”. Can you tell me it made any difference at all what physical part of the mountain he was on?
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 29, 2007 - 11:03pm PT
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Those are good and interesting thoughts, John. I think perhaps routes in Eldorado are more "distinct" than in the Gunks, not necessarily harder or more significant, but structurally more diverse and more colorful.
I agree about just going up and climbing. Often in Eldorado I could more or less start up anywhere and be happy, even on easy rock. Yet climbs such as Vertigo or Super Slab are so physically dramatic and gorgeous, with all those colors, as though the sun were setting in the middle of day, and that vertical but suprisingly moderate wall of Yellow Spur... I guess we got a little more into the notion of the route being as individual as a soul. Going up Over the Hill, you look west at the snow-covered high country, while climbing the smoothest, gray, beautiful sandstone in the canyon. Ravens frequently cruise that area, and their cackle is the only sound other than a small breeze among some pines, or you hear your own breathing, or the sound of a shoe against the rock. If a lace came undone, it might be like that proverbial pin dropping in silence.
As I remember from a bio-psychology class years ago, memory is greatly enhanced by the flow of adrenaline, and that's why I think for a time I had almost a photographic memory for routes in Eldorado. Each climb was so different, adding to the way the pictures formed in my mind. I still remember all that, all those holds, those little sideways push moves, a tiny edge, anchoring to a dinky bush, a piece of lichen staring me in the face, a balancy mantel above pro... All of those moments and years are such a grand panorama in retrospect, and so delicate. Yet from time to time someone asks if I remember a climb I did with them, and to my dismay I can't recall. Some of those memories simply seem to vanish for whatever reason, while others remain forever indelible...
I will never forget looking down the vertical wall of Northwest Corner at your serious face... I wrote a vignette about that recently. Actually I have been entertaining myself of late by writing vignettes (intense little paragraphs) about various climbing friends. I've done a wild one of Bridwell and one of Higgins, one of Robbins and you... I have entertained the notion of starting a thread called "vignettes," to post these and to invite others to say something crisp and rich and clean (and brief) about someone special... Haven't got my act together, though.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 30, 2007 - 12:26am PT
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Pat,
A lot of Gunks climbing is on one of three long cliff faces. It isn't all the same by any means, but it is possible to get a bit confused about what you have or haven't done after the years roll by, the ascents pile up, and the brain turns to mush.
Well, even before that. I started a thread called "Guess the Route" on Gunks.com a year or so ago by posting a cool picture I thought would nonetheless be tricky to recognize, and the game caught on and there are now over 15,000 entries.
Still, there are many Gunks routes that are immediately recognizable, even to those of us who are beginning to suffer some, shall we say, momentary lapses in our recollection ability. Here's a picture I took about ten days ago on a route whose beauty and position make it pretty hard to forget:
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 30, 2007 - 12:34am PT
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That is a nice location and shot Rich. Very nice.
I never been to Gunks, I'm in jail now (work).
But I have a file and am planning my escape.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 30, 2007 - 12:41am PT
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Well, you are probably right Pat. Every area has its own quality.
At any event Richard has just demonstrated my brain has already turned to mush. If you are worried about that eventuallity, take my word for it. It isn't all that disagreeable.
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 30, 2007 - 01:47am PT
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When I was a kid, the idea of new routes was strongly impressed upon my imagination. Kor would say to me, when I was 13 and 14, "I just did a new route, man." He would go on to describe its horrors and wonders, and when he and I and a few others started doing routes on the then virgin walls of Eldorado, every new hold was imprinted in that fertile imagination of my younger self. Of course I got interested in writing a guidebook to the climbs at age 14 and so took special notice of every hold and crack and face and ledge and fluff of grass my mind was capable of gathering in. Everything to me was beautiful, even the ugly rotten rock you had to hold in place as you climbed past it. That photo, Rich, makes me wish I had climbed in the Gunks. I can't believe I never did, of all the places I visited. I can imagine I would have loved that place, had it been my boyhood experience...
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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History living (as of about a month ago):
Photo by Patty Matteson
Left to right:
Joe Bridges FOV, Dick Williams, SV, John Bragg, BOG, Richard Goldstone VCL, Claude Suhl, FV.
Legend:
FOV = Friend of Vulgarians
SV = Senior Vulgarian
BOG = Baby of the Group
VCL = Vulgarian-come-lately
FV = Founding Vulgarian
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WBraun
climber
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Richard !!!!!
What an awesome group of guys you are.
All glories to your future ......
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Excellent photo! Nice to see that people keep up our avocation, and are still out challenging themselves as they mature.
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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That's a wonderful group of classic individuals. I can't believe how young Dick looks. He must not age. Now the white beard, Rich, that is distinguished. I sense the strength still in those forearms. Good to know John Bragg is still around. Give him my best. Last time I saw him was when he and Stannard and I climbed in Eldorado... I love all that green, the bushes and trees. Gill just wrote me an email and said the competition was on, between him and me, to see which one looks the oldest now. On the Rock&Ice online page there is a revolving set of images, one of Gill that comes up for about half a second... He sent me a photo of him doing a front lever with legs apart. I told him what bad form that was, and he wrote back, "Yeah, yeah..."
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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By the way, in that "competition" of which I spoke, I win hands down.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Pretty honed bunch of Vulgarians (and friends) there! Sometimes I think of visiting, but a shot like that reminds me that those forearms are ripped from hoisting the sandbags onto out-of-staters...
I've enjoyed company recent years of Roman Laba. He's just back from a backpacking and scrambling trip to the Pyrennes.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Great photo! Inspiring to youngsters like myself, who have only just recently received aarp spam.
Oli, sometimes you are too hard on yourself.
OT, you should head to Vedawuoo for the 2nd part of the boogaloo, not THAT far from Fruita. Maybe a third the distance I'm driving. I guarantee you a laugh, or I'll buy your gas!
Fingers crossed style edit; glad to see this thread back on track.
Further enticement style edit; maybe I can come up with a story of myself as a seven yr old learning the ropes from the Stettner bro's.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Two more shots of history living.
Bragg in the Near Trapps, Gunks
Bragg on Frogland, Red Rocks
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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buuump
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Feb 20, 2015 - 02:01pm PT
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hey there say... wow, a very needed bump...
wow... yes, living history thread, is a very needed review, here...
i sure love and appreciate ever SINGLE one of you...
thanks for being here and sharing your lives, and your loves,
and your pain, and your losses, with us...
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