Older Trip Reports that used the IMG tag + Future of Forum

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Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Topic Author's Original Post - May 12, 2019 - 08:32pm PT
Hi Forum,

2 things:

Older Trip Reports that used the [img] tag
As many of you know, in our recent action on images we eliminated the display of hot-linked images that were using the obsolete [img] tag used on this site from roughly 2002 to 2008 (the images were replaced with a link to their original source web location).

Many of you noted that some of the best trip reports on SuperTopo that pre-dated our 2008 removal of support for the [img] tag were impacted, and those older trip reports had lost much of their original magic.

We heard you.

Since then, we have reviewed all of the most popular [older] trip reports that utilized those obsolete [img] tags, and have approved most of them to now re-enable display of their images.

You'll now see that some of the all-time most viewed trip reports, such as PellucidWombat's (Mark Thomas) trip report on the Grand Teton, Exum Ridge, are now displayed in their full original glory:
http://www.supertopo.com/tr/Complete-Exum-Ridge-of-the-Grand-Teton-III-5-7/t11690n.html

Note that this only applies to older trip reports. The [img] tag is no longer supported, hasn't been since 2008, and new trip reports should not use it.

We consider Trip Reports to be some of the best of the member contributed content, and we're happy to have re-enabled the full display of images on many hundreds of popular and high-quality TRs.


The Future of The Forum
Some of you have asked about the long-term prospects for the Forum in light of our disclosure that it has been losing money for years. I want to try to speak to that in direct terms.

It is no longer clear that we can justify continued operation of the SuperTopo Forum.

The SuperTopo Forum has never been a profitable business venture. It costs us a significant amount of time and money each year to operate the Forum, and we have done so as a service for the climbing community for 18 years. But, the prospect of having to bear increased potential costs in the future, both in time and legal costs, due to threatened and/or real litigation related to inappropriate posts by a minority of forum members has changed the math. We are now seriously questioning whether we can justify continued operation of the Forum. While it had been my sincere intention to keep the Forum in operation for the foreseeable future, I no longer feel I can make that promise.

If you have posted content on the SuperTopo Forum that is important to you, I encourage you to make a personal backup. Please do not rely on the SuperTopo Forum to act as an archive of your content or photos. The site is not suitable for that purpose, and I do not want to imply otherwise.

Sincerely,

Chris McNamara
Founder
SuperTopo
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
May 12, 2019 - 08:43pm PT
Well, it's been a good run, but nothing lasts forever.

But, a favor: Chris, if you do decide to shutter the forum, can we ask you to give us some warning? Many of us who have made Supertopo a part of our lives would probably like to have a month or two to sort out the next step.

And, whatever happens, it's been good.

David
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 12, 2019 - 08:50pm PT
“It’s no longer clear,” has, for time immemorial, been an indirect way of saying...it’s very clear.
BooDawg

Social climber
Butterfly Town
May 12, 2019 - 08:53pm PT
It sounds like THIS IS THE WARNING! We'd better get busy! Thanks, Chris!
zBrown

Ice climber
May 12, 2019 - 08:57pm PT
Why not back up the entire Forum and sell the backups

Easily said

But how hard to do?

Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
May 12, 2019 - 08:58pm PT
If you do pull the plug, please consider doing what bigwalls.net did and leave a searchable archive.
jogill

climber
Colorado
May 12, 2019 - 09:00pm PT
Guess we'd better start packing for the move (into uncharted territory). It's been fun.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
May 12, 2019 - 09:04pm PT
hey there, say, dear chris! thank you so kindly, for the note here...

and, for doing your best, in all you do, and HERE, as well...


you are appreciated-- you have, by running this forum, knitted a lot of
friendships, and, created new ones...


and, displayed:

GREAT TRIP REPORTS AND INSPIRATIONS, history, and new places...


and-- give folks a chance to THANK RESCUE WORKERS and,
keep updates on those that were injured...
and, give encouragement...



forever grateful!
neebee...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 12, 2019 - 09:10pm PT
Wow. I’m a bit shocked, even if the circumstances that have led to this have been fairly obvious.

I can’t imagine the path that would allow this place to continue on in the way we’ve all enjoyed it, but I thank you deeply for your commitment to the ideal, and persistence & patience in trying to see it through.
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
May 12, 2019 - 09:18pm PT
Thanks Chris. Appreciate you being up front about things.

It's been a good run. If you have to let it go, so be it...it's not as if this is some charity helping the needy.


okay, whatever

climber
May 12, 2019 - 09:19pm PT
I understand the circumstances, but would say, along with many others, that I have thoroughly enjoyed Supertopo for many years... both for the climbing content, and also for other extended threads about scientific and mathematical topics and so forth. Not to mention some of the humor, both verbal and pictorial. I'll be sorry to see it go, but thanks for the long run, Chris.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
May 12, 2019 - 09:36pm PT
ST has been a great way for me to stay connected to the past, the present, and the future of climbing from over here on the other side of the planet. While I'll soon be back in CA for the summer (and 1 more year here in Delhi before I retire back to home-base) I sure have enjoyed the variety of the Forum. So a heartfelt appreciation for making this happen over all these years!

Q?- Is there an easy way to (suck back) download my images from ST without resorting to a 1 by 1 download?

cheers
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 12, 2019 - 10:24pm PT
Oh, well, it’s back to the bowling alley I guess.
Mike.

climber
May 12, 2019 - 10:44pm PT
Mike.

climber
May 12, 2019 - 10:49pm PT
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
May 12, 2019 - 11:03pm PT
Change is good....Midget porn ...Here I come....
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
May 12, 2019 - 11:08pm PT
Chris, thanks for the heads up. As others have said, I hope you can keep the Forum as an archive.

Barring that, if you feel you can no longer support the Forum, I hope that you give people advance notice so they have time to finish downloading their materials.

Finally, if some other entity is able to host the Forum or an archive of it, I hope you'll be willing to transfer the files to them.

Thanks again.
skywalker1

Trad climber
co
May 12, 2019 - 11:17pm PT
Well Chris for my part it has been good fun. Maybe I will look to sports car racing or interior design. I don't consider any of my TR's note worthy nor my banter. Delete as you may, they will always be in my head.

Do as you must.

Thanks!

Cheers!

S.....
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
May 12, 2019 - 11:39pm PT
Herding cats takes a serious crazy person

You can call Donald Perry many things

  one of those many things

Is

SERIOUS!


http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=3194645&tn=0&mr=0


You and the wonderful people who have contributed to this no-place deserve three cheers
hey, ho ho! & HEY HeY HeY ! ! !
Your patience and contributions to the lives of those of us addicted to vertical pursuits
is nothing short of divinely sent. Your minions would do what you asked if that were what was required.
- It is clear that the evil anti-social most likely sociopathic
small smelly, (did I say EVIL-SMELLING & sad?) evil people with too much time & venom to spew on their hands, are behind this; attacking a good thing.; thats why we can't have good things ...
It is a sad world that mirrors the larger mess we as a society are in

I recommend that you visit New Jersey to find a lawyer who knows "Vinny"

& that you make sure to take in a "Billy Strings" show ('cause nothing this good lasts)

A whole Show::::Billy Strings - Sweetwater 420Fest,
 4/19/2019


https://youtu.be/Lvqs-LX3LYo
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
May 13, 2019 - 01:35am PT
Have you tried a "membership" push with a Paypal contribution link?

It would be a major tragedy if this place shut down.
Bale

Mountain climber
UT
May 13, 2019 - 02:09am PT
I have thoroughly enjoyed this place.
Ezra Ellis

Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
May 13, 2019 - 02:38am PT
It's been a good run,
Thanks for hosting it Chris.

There are some excellent people on this site.
Cheers
ron gomez

Trad climber
May 13, 2019 - 05:43am PT
Thanks for the heads up, will be sad if this goes....so much history, so many stories, it bonded a community and allowed for renewed friendships.
Thanks Chris....do what is best for you and your crew, i feel a lot of us get it.
Peace
climbski2

Mountain climber
The Ocean
May 13, 2019 - 06:44am PT
Thank you Chris.

The writing was on the wall anyway. I'll copy some of the stuff I have here that I wrote. What little is of any real value lol.

My deep respect for the time and effort you put into making a great campfire as long as it has lasted.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
May 13, 2019 - 07:09am PT
Thanks to Supertopo I was able to reconnect with the climbing world and old friends after many years away, resolve a lot of karma, be entertained by our history, learn a lot of science and stretch my intellect in many other ways on the What is Mind thread. It's inspiring how many different niches ST occupied in my life. Nothing will ever replace it.

Please give us as much advance notice as possible before closing. A deadline always inspires action even though I had already been downloading my favorite threads.

And do consider putting the historical material into some kind of archive.

Many thanks for the wonderful years I was able to participate.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 13, 2019 - 07:37am PT
Thanks for the update Chris.

Are you CONSIDERING sale of the domain and forum? Or is that too difficult due to being somehow interconnected with the gear review site?

If not, this would actually be a great time for someone to launch a new climbing site if they wanted to. If I had funding, I would. But I don't, so I can't. If somebody who does have funding wants a creative "ideas person" on their team, I'm happy to brainstorm(for a percentage of the forum income). Contact me through TalismanToo.Etsy.com.

If anyone thinks it's just "old men" here, they are wrong. There is a sizable amount of lurkers. I know from meeting people all the time who don't post, or post very little, but still read the forums. Maybe not enough to make a site financially workable, but that doesn't mean a site that IS financially workable isn't possible.

Although if said person insists that being able to be jerks and nasty and threaten others is part of the equation for success, not going to be sustainable and I wouldn't be interested. If you need to be as#@&%es, there's Youtube. Have at it.
Mike.

climber
May 13, 2019 - 07:40am PT
Heyya, Chris, Randy, Sarah F, David S, Hardman Knott and everybody who helped forge the ST brand: Thanks for the good work. The end of an era is the beginning of the next. Always something to be stoked about.

The Kid: See you in the dirt, pal.



I'll see the rest of you over on Mountain Project. Haha, F no – just effin with ya. See you on the trails and rocks.




ddriver

Trad climber
SLC, UT
May 13, 2019 - 07:53am PT
Other forums enable user donations instead of paid memberships. Seems a better fit for this group. Hold a fundraising drive once or twice a year using paypal or whatever works for you.
John M

climber
May 13, 2019 - 08:02am PT
I'm guessing its less about the money and more about the hassle. Its like being on the board of an HOA or on a city planning board. Too many headaches because its impossible to please everyone. Its pretty weird how much hatred this place can generate. Its gotta be hard dealing with that all the time.

But yep.. I would donate if that would help.

Thanks for all of your effort Guys!
JLP

Social climber
The internet
May 13, 2019 - 08:06am PT
Other forums enable user donations
Yes, I agree and have seen this appear to work well enough.

Another thing I've seen is for a forum to pick up a few primary sponsors - like REI and MP.com, but not necessarily as formal or in an ownership sense.

This all reeks of contemplating options to deal with some lawsuit threat.

I don't know how he'd separate the cost of the forum from the cost of the site as a whole to support his guidebook business - other than the soft cost of maintenance time.
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
May 13, 2019 - 08:10am PT
Thanks for your efforts Chris, RJ and everyone else working on the backend.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 13, 2019 - 08:14am PT
I doubt the dirtbags would make a fundraiser worth holding. They’ve clearly not responded adequately to the gay cruise and Bentley ads.
Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
May 13, 2019 - 08:17am PT
Appreciate the 18 years of work you put in. Has been great entertainment but nothing lasts forever. I agree with comment above that domain name should be turned over to someone who wants to take the reins.
Da-Veed

Big Wall climber
Bigfork
May 13, 2019 - 08:23am PT
Thanks Chris for all you have done, I have been on this site since the beginning (I have changed my login a few times). I hope it doesn't go away but with all the political BS I see on here in the last few years I would fully understand.

I kinda feel like I'm being broken up with!

Gunkie

Trad climber
Valles Marineris
May 13, 2019 - 08:47am PT
Three words: Go Fund Me

I'll absolutely contribute. Set a goal; let it rip.
limpingcrab

Gym climber
Minkler, CA
May 13, 2019 - 08:52am PT
I guess it holds true

Lawsuits ruin everything
telemon01

Trad climber
Montana
May 13, 2019 - 09:18am PT
People say herding cats is difficult -

Well Cmac has gone one further by herding monkeys

Well done Chris, thank you for creating the Supertopo Universe.
I’ve learned a lot and have enjoyed my time here
micronut

Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
May 13, 2019 - 09:31am PT
Thanks Chris for taking the time to touch base with "the people." We appreciate the effort you've put into keeping this place a living breathing thing over the years.

It will be a real tragedy if it goes. It's the virtual Camp 4 of the climbing world and there's no denying it.

Hopefully somebody will create another genuine online place to hang out, meet good people, slander a bit and enjoy the stoke from behind the keyboard when we can't be outside. It's my hope you realize the worth of this place and the real relationships that have been made from this forum.

Because of this place and this place alone
I've.....


Attempted El Cap and sat on many summits with Mark Hudon
Fished the East Walker and Hot Creek with Stimbo
Become close personal friends with Limpingcrab (pros and cons..)
Caught the biggest trout of my life on Pyramid Lake with WTF
Bushwacked through poison Oak forests with Jaybro
Ran into more than a handful of Supertopo users on Tuolumne or Valley routes and have always enjoyed the random "Hey! You're Micronut! I love your trip reports!"

All of these were complete strangers before The Taco and I'm grateful to now call them friends.
Gunks Guy

Trad climber
New Paltz
May 13, 2019 - 10:18am PT
Chris,
Please consider gofundme if it's really the cost issue.

If it's more complicated than that, any chance of releasing it open source or public domain? I bet there are people here with skills that would be willing to keep it going.

In any case, thanks for doing this for the community for all those years.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 13, 2019 - 10:20am PT
Because of Supertopo I:

 Went to Facelift
 Went to SushiFest
 Felt kinda like I had someone along for the ride on my cross-country trips in a van I sometimes worried about
 Got support from people to get myself a few miles further down the road on many an occasion
 Realized that my creative work was valued
 Climbed routes in CA/AZ that I otherwise wouldn't have
 Learned a lot of interesting tidbits about politics, climbing, cooking and many other topics
 Had the opportunity to be there for someone when they were struggling and allowed themself to be vulnerable enough to post about it



Ward Trotter

Trad climber
May 13, 2019 - 10:23am PT
Thanks, Chris.
Mike Bolte

Trad climber
Planet Earth
May 13, 2019 - 11:04am PT
Thanks Chris! This has been a terrific service to a large community. I personally have learned so much history, met or reconnected with many good folks, and got turned on to some great places/climbs. If a funding model gets adopted/attempted, I will certainly be on board to contribute.

best, Mike
matty

Trad climber
under the sea
May 13, 2019 - 11:37am PT
Having a membership due or a verified membership program might help prevent people from trolling and posting inappropriate/copyrighted material...but that would also discourage new users from posting/joining. Dunno the answer but I'm sure many of us here would be willing to pay in one form or another to help run the site depending on the details.
Zay

climber
Monterey, Ca
May 13, 2019 - 11:53am PT
All good things...

It would be a severe loss to the climbing world if all the content of this forum went bye-bye... so much of history is woven into this site.

I pray that content is at least preserved somehow...
JLP

Social climber
The internet
May 13, 2019 - 11:54am PT
Lots of ideas, but none of them are going to make something like a lawsuit disappear.

What I'm reading is that everything is "wait and see." - on basically the direction the lawsuit takes. These things can often take years. Lawyers are the slowest, least urgent sacks of useless in the entire professional world.

However - what I'm really waiting to see - and I'm sure I'm not the only one - is the name of who is suing him. They'll only be able to hide for so long.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
May 13, 2019 - 12:07pm PT
I'm going to miss the posts from a bunch of folks who've died.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
May 13, 2019 - 12:12pm PT
However - what I'm really waiting to see - and I'm sure I'm not the only one - is the name of who is suing him. They'll only be able to hide for so long.

This will Stay for 10 minutes

JLP

Social climber
The internet
May 13, 2019 - 12:39pm PT
I'm just reading and interpreting exactly what was posted by CMac.

That said - let me add - "after the legal issue is over".

As long as they are holding ST accountable for these supposed copyright crimes and the damage they feel it has caused them - they better be right - because the community will in return hold them accountable for the damage their lawsuit has caused if not.

This is the balance of nature and how I've always seen it play out in the long game.

All should and will be done fair and correct and transparently, not in some online speculation witch-hunt fashion.
Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
May 13, 2019 - 12:51pm PT
If someone is going to do something to you, they just do it. If they threaten you it means they don't actually want to do what they're threatening. This Aaron guy isn't even the slightest bit scary looking to me. If someone posted his pictures here and you took them down, it's over and you should just ignore him.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 13, 2019 - 01:01pm PT
JLP, you have been speculating from the very start about how Chris is likely to have lawsuits looming, and where they are coming from. That kind of 'witch hunt' (your word) just isn't helpful to anyone.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
May 13, 2019 - 01:03pm PT
CMac stated openly and clearly a few weeks ago these recent actions were directly the result of a lawsuit. Nothing in my last few posts contains a shred of speculation.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
May 13, 2019 - 01:15pm PT
I hated it when my parents would tell me, "All good things must end." Still do!
Yeti

Trad climber
Ketchum, Idaho
May 13, 2019 - 01:23pm PT
Chris: Thanks much for all you have done and still do. Keep up the good work reminding all of us that there is still freedom in the hills even if it's not in the forum.
johntp

Trad climber
Punter, Little Rock
May 13, 2019 - 02:00pm PT
I've met lots of folks through this forum, particularly by attending Gordo's events in JT and facelifts.

It would be a shame to see this forum go the way of the dodo bird.

Chris, what can be done to save it?

klaus

Big Wall climber
6th and Mission
May 13, 2019 - 02:20pm PT
Ha I told Chris 10 years ago that this place is a toilet that needs to be flushed. It's about time. Bye
brotherbbock

climber
So-Cal
May 13, 2019 - 02:31pm PT
It always amazed me how I could ask the most random question about beta, health issues, traveling, or anything and someone would have something to say on this forum.

One of my favorite examples was when I inherited some climbing artwork and I posted a pic of the art to try and get more information on it.


Not only did the actual artist chime in on that thread but we got a full backstory and history as well. I though that was pretty cool...

At any rate it's been fun, I've never posted so much on any other forum.
Thanks for the ride...
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 13, 2019 - 02:43pm PT

Lawsuits ruin everything

Yep. And even if they have zero merit, it's time and stress and lawyer fees .
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
May 13, 2019 - 03:08pm PT
both the benefit and bane of the justice system...


anyone can file a suit.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 13, 2019 - 03:08pm PT
Potential lawsuit....hmmm, I wonder.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 13, 2019 - 03:13pm PT
"anyone can file a suit."

Our illustrious Dear Leader's entire business model is based on this premise.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 13, 2019 - 04:27pm PT
Our illustrious Dear Leader's entire business model is based on this premise.

Now that sound political!!! But, it is the end times.....

I got to supply some people with free wine just for the asking, which was fun. First five cheap ass respondents get a bottle of Cabernet. Send your shipping address to senormucho at gmail dot com.
ron gomez

Trad climber
May 13, 2019 - 04:29pm PT
Good reds outa Yakima?
Peace
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 13, 2019 - 04:41pm PT
Yep. One gone....

Edit: Now two...
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
May 13, 2019 - 04:57pm PT
brotherbbock, totally agree. And this is the only forum besides FB I've spent my precious time on. Community, friends and so much info at our fingertips. At least nearly all the information has been collected over the years on our forthcoming book, Tuolumne Climber. Now, how to let people know when it comes out.

I'm not even going down the end of the road, road for ST. To much brain tweek, to much to fathom.
Ezra Ellis

Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
May 13, 2019 - 05:16pm PT
Honestly, Chris’s wording just sounds like he got a cease and desist letter.
Please consider transferring the site domain to someone else Chris.

With sincere gratitude ,
Ezra Ellis
MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
May 13, 2019 - 05:45pm PT
Do what you find best.

"There are other SuperTopos in the lives of men."

Morris Roadhog.
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
May 13, 2019 - 06:09pm PT
You've done an amazing job. The aggravation must have been enormous at times. Do what you have to do, but know that ST has been VERY much appreciated, especially by those of us who are distant now from the action. If funding is a major factor I think many of us would go along happily with a monthly or other fee.

Thanks, Chris!

Wayne Merry
ron gomez

Trad climber
May 13, 2019 - 06:26pm PT
Winemaker, sign me up
Peace
ron gomez

Trad climber
May 13, 2019 - 06:30pm PT
+1 Fossil climber, just to stay connected with these people at my age is worth a “buck or two”. We think nothing of spending a few hundred to attend reunions, gatherings and memorials. These people are my life long friends.
Peace
Reeotch

climber
4 Corners Area
May 13, 2019 - 07:03pm PT
Oh Damn, reality rears its ugly head . . .

I certainly will miss this place!

Anyone have any suggestions for efficiently transferring your trip reports elsewhere?

One thing I've discovered is some of the free website hosting services out there. I'm using Weebly for my teaching website, but I've also added a blog and a Trip Reports section.

It is fun to play around, then if you want to get serious they can set you up with your own domain and advanced editing features for ~~$40/year.

Check mine out: ludwigsbiology.weebly.com
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 13, 2019 - 07:13pm PT
I have no idea how to salvage and store 30 trip reports someplace else...

Still a tech knucklehead.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 13, 2019 - 07:30pm PT
I wonder about the possibility of freezing the forum

No new topics

Only posting to existing threads threads

How many are going to go in and start political ranting for example on the

"What Song" thread




Prezwoodz

climber
Anchorage
May 13, 2019 - 07:35pm PT
Chris at this point you aren't really just running a forum. You've created a sort of historical database with a treasure trove of information, some of it you can never get again if it is lost. I had a similar site with a much smaller scope operating in Alaska for years. When it went down and I was unable to retrieve most of the information it left a sense of lost in me and other dedicated users because of the information that we no longer could obtain. It would be a major loss to the climbing community if this site went down.

You've mentioned finances and I would be very surprised if you couldn't raise the funds necessary to run this site yearly by doing a donation drive. Why not let us in on the costs. This is a community of people who understand the value of whats on this site. You have something amazing here, all you need to do is keep the hackers away. You don't even have to change the look and feel every year to keep current. Adding a few trusted folks to the admin list could also help alleviate the strain of work.

I've already appreciated how the site has gone back more toward climbing. I know it probably left what you intended and got into something of a political pit but it still has a lot of life and potential left.
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
May 13, 2019 - 08:17pm PT
^^^^^^^^^!!
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 13, 2019 - 09:16pm PT
Winemaker, sign me up

Okay Ron, done if you send me a shipping address. I'm gone this week, so shipping next week some time.
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
May 13, 2019 - 09:25pm PT
Uhh...I'd call dibs on a cab...! Let me know!

Ditto the forum and contributions. Great hang.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
May 13, 2019 - 09:27pm PT
Chris,
Gonna miss this forum. Thanks for all your work.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
May 13, 2019 - 10:01pm PT
TO BAD YOU CAN'T ENGAGE A LAW FIRM IN NEW JERSEY

WHERE LAWYERS USE PAID PROTECTION TO RESPOND TO ACTIONS & THREATS

WHEN THERE IS AN "INVESTIGATOR" - A "VINNY" TO RUN INTERFERENCE

LAWYERS WHO TRY TO MAKE COIN ON THIS SORT OF SHAKEDOWN OFTEN LOOSE

INTEREST WHEN & IF THEY (figuratively) GET THEIR NECKS STEPPED ON
On-Site Flasher 69

Sport climber
Riverside
May 13, 2019 - 10:18pm PT
Hey everyone. It makes me so sad to think about the end of this forum. I’ve been lurking here since 2010. I was an aimless teenager when I discovered the supertopo fourm. The community here has taught me so much and has definitely shaped the adult that I’ve become through out the last decade. The history preserved in the archives of this fourm hold the stories of many of Yosemite’s rock climbing legends, such as the late Walt Shipley, Scott Cosgrove, John Bachar, and many others dead and alive. I fear that much of this history will be lost if this fourm comes to an end. I wish that I would have contributed more, but I also understand that the relevant exploits I’ve undertaken over the last ten years are not particularly worthy of writing about. I suspect there are others that have spent a considerable amount of time lurking here that feel the same as I. Thanks to everyone that has contributed to this community, even the politards, you all have taught me way more than f*#k heads over at mountain projects. Long live the revolution!
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 13, 2019 - 10:37pm PT
Uhh...I'd call dibs on a cab...! Let me know!

OK Brian, but you have to send me a shipping address as above, otherwise where to send it? I'm going to be in SLC on Friday so maybe...

Edit: #3.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 13, 2019 - 11:47pm PT
Sorry to read the news regarding the future of this forum, but I have always appreciated its existence, and the effort Super Topo made in keeping it going.

It particularly saddens me -- but does not surprise me -- to see legal costs listed as a factor in its deficit. My perception of tort abuse was a major factor in my going into the legal profession 45 years ago. Sad to say, that abuse only seems to worsen, and cause the demise of many good enterprises and products.

I hope we can find a way to preserve this place. I have greatly enjoyed participating here.

John
TwistedCrank

climber
Released into general population, Idaho
May 14, 2019 - 07:07am PT
I learned what felching is on this forum.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 14, 2019 - 08:26am PT
All the wine is gone, will be sending it out next week.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 14, 2019 - 08:31am PT
All the wine is gone, will be sending it out next week.

That’s quite the classic oxymoron! I missed what led up to this so maybe you’re sending out cases of Conundrum wine?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 14, 2019 - 09:47am PT
Good point Reilly! Was about an earlier offer of free wine to the first five responders; too late sir, too late!
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
May 14, 2019 - 11:08am PT
The Supertopo Forum has been a literary treasure.

In ages past letters or articles from notable mountaineers are considered treasures.

Here within these electronic pages have been laid down some of the finest climbing liturature ever presented. It is possible that a book could be published if someone knowledgble enough to edit it had the time.

From quips and tips, to insights into souls, to confessions, explanations, there are jewels here.

The beauty of it is immense. The fact that anyone could log on and interact and contribute is an advance of civilization beyond compare.

On several occasions the main stream press has come here for news bits. It is still the most authoritative of forums. Had it not been under the custody of Chris MacNamara it would not be as good.

Perhaps it could be backed up and archived at the AAC Museum of Climbing and at the Yosemite Climbing Museum.

Future authors would find the content here invaluable.



wbw

Trad climber
'cross the great divide
May 14, 2019 - 11:16am PT
If this is the beginning of the end, thanks Chris for providing such a great resource to us. This forum has truly brought out the best in our community, but unfortunately the worst at times. I think any reasonable person would understand that that is on us, not you.
Bobbleseth

Trad climber
Utah
May 14, 2019 - 11:18am PT


Thanks to everyone that has contributed to this community, even the politards, you all have taught me way more than f*#k heads over at mountain projects.


News flash!

Many of the fuk heads here, are the same fuk heads over on Mt Proj

GUD news is...

a fuk head is a fuk head is a fuk head...

So you're good ta go!!!...
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
May 14, 2019 - 01:23pm PT
Difference being...you get to see this on MP:

This post violated Guideline #1 and has been removed.
MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
May 14, 2019 - 04:23pm PT
I like the Prezwoodz perspective.
Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
May 14, 2019 - 04:56pm PT
The beauty of it is immense. The fact that anyone could log on and interact and contribute is an advance of civilization beyond compare.

It's in a raw state, though, with copyrighted info having to be purged, and some threads are the equivalent of UFC fights. Some is climbing related, and some is not. I'm not sure it could be edited into a single book. A list of all the thread topics would probably be the size of a book. I like the idea of turning it over to a historical mountaineering organization for preservation, but what does this mean, freezing it so it can no longer be changed? Ideally someone would volunteer to host it, and take on the responsibility to pay for it to be on a server somewhere.

It does have historical value, but I think you lose most of the value if you can't interact with it. Supertopo is really well indexed by google already. If I look up some mountain or climb on google, invariably google hits on a supertopo thread. So ideally they would stay where they are (in the supertopo.com) and stay modifiable, but a person with a long time commitment like Chris MacNamara would have to take on the job. If you want to read backups of supertopo you can do that anytime on the wayback machine.
originalpmac

Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
May 14, 2019 - 04:59pm PT
I'd pay $20 or so a year. And I appreciate the effort that this forum has taken to operate. Thank you.
LilaBiene

Trad climber
Technically...the spawning grounds of Yosemite
May 14, 2019 - 05:11pm PT
Chris, had you never hosted this forum, and had so many contributors not invested so much time and heart to preserve some of the best storytelling on climbing history that exists anywhere...I wouldn't know who I am or from whence I came.

I never would have fallen in love with climbing (nor have become obsessed with climbing gear).

I probably never would have climbed in Yosemite, Joshua Tree, the Gunks, Quincy Quarries, Seneca Rocks, Camden Cliffs or the Cascades. I wouldn't be dreaming about trips to Alaska, Germany, Switzerland, Canada and about a dozen other places.

Folks that knew and loved Dolt would never have known that his story continues, nor would they have had the chance to heal...in however small of a way.

I never would have met my second cousins through Dolt in Germany last summer.

I never would have met my birth mom's siblings.

I never would have met tens of friends of Dolt, or my birth mom, Ann, nor learned about who they were and how very much I resemble them both.

I never would have met hundreds of other climbers through this forum and elsewhere be it through climbing or volunteering.

I never would have volunteered with City Kids Wilderness Project nor the AAC in memory of my birth parents.

I wouldn't have genuine Mark Hudon Nose Route topos hanging in my bedroom and office.

I wouldn't have been blessed by the gifts of time and friendship generously bestowed by so many climbers on this forum...the list is long. The circle of folks who have selflessly shared with me precious Dolt gear is nothing short of amazing.

Were it not for all of this, I probably would have just accepted the diagnosis of fibro back in 2011, and wouldn't be currently fighting like Hell to beat late stage Lyme & babesia (the correct diagnosis) so that I can get back to my climbing community and just spend as many days as is possible of those I have left climbing my heart out.

As an attorney, I understand the burdens of monitoring, compliance and, unfortunately, litigation. (Though I am not a litigator - just a geeky technology lawyer.)

This forum is made of, and has done, SO MUCH GOOD. Please don't ever forget that.

Respectfully and gratefully,

Lilabiene
Klimmer2.0

Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
May 14, 2019 - 05:33pm PT
ST is incredibly important site on the internet for the climbing based community and all of the history that has been shared here and retold over the years. And all of the trip reports shared. So much of these personal stories are not available anywhere else. The value of "the ST virtual climbers' campfire" is immeasurably.

I'm not on FB, Twitter, or really any other social media. ST has been it primarily. I'm a climber and I like the climbing community.

ST has been wonderful over the years and even when we argue and don't agree I've learned incredible lessons here and met incredible people at least through our words spoken together. I've always tried to do threads of interest (even if they are waaaaayy out there and sometimes OT) with great links so that it can be useful to learn more, hoping that I could always return to the threads to read through them again or to add more in the future.

I've been able to at least talk with very notable climbers in the community that we all admire, and that has been golden cherished memories for me.

One of the last threads, if not the last thread that John Bachar had started and posted to, regarding what we as a nation have done to the native north Americans was done here on ST. It was the last words he would say on ST and then he was gone. I'm glad that I was able to have shared a few words for a moment here at ST with Bachar.

Get togethers have been organized here through ST. The Mt. Woodson Shindig was awesome fun. Learned so much about the Poway Mountain Boys here on ST and Mt. Woodson history (my climbing backyard) that I have read no where else, as well as the history of the more famous Stonemasters and the many connections between the two over the years.

Even if I'm considered the "Tin Foil Hat Crazy Man of ST," we have had great deep discussions and that has been wonderful.

ST should be saved and archived with a searchable database. I would be willing to contribute a fee per year to keep it going. It's just too valuable to let it go. I don't want to see it go. Don't do it. Don't pull the plug Chris ...


As in one of the most famous scenes in cinema history it was said ...

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die."


I hope that the management of ST can see the incredible value of the Forum and do the right thing and save it. Don't let it go. Save it. Let us know how we can help to do so.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
May 14, 2019 - 05:56pm PT
I never would have met biter old man and Bobbleseth....
hellroaring

Trad climber
San Francisco
May 14, 2019 - 05:56pm PT
Hope it somehow keeps going. If it doesn’t I really am going to miss you all even if I only knew most of you in the cyber world. The amount of good advice gleaned from here is invaluable...and then there are the stories!! Rock on, climb hard, love life. Peace out all...
phylp

Trad climber
Upland, CA
May 14, 2019 - 06:31pm PT
Checking in twice (or more) daily with the Forum is a habit as ingrained as brushing my teeth after meals. There was so much written, and written well, that was entertaining, but beyond that, often emotionally moving. So many laugh-out-loud posts. So many distinct voices. So many colorful personalities.

Anything I needed to know that I couldn't figure out elsewhere, I knew I could come here and ask and someone would give me some advice. Useful pieces of information - the best protein powder, the little holes on the sides of the saran wrap box that I never knew were there...

Over the years I have forged real life connections with so many people that I "met" here, but as I read through these posts, I realize there are so many of you that I only know within the confines of this space. I will miss you all (well most of you, not the jerks), if that ends. I'll miss sharing my museum visits with the other art lovers on the Art Thread With Images. (Justin, who started that thread, left the Forum long ago.) I'll miss seeing what people are building on Show Me What You're Building. (Survival, who started that thread, likewise departed.)

I'll enjoy it while it lasts.
And yes, I would make a donation for expenses, if that opportunity is presented to us.

Bobbleseth

Trad climber
Utah
May 14, 2019 - 06:56pm PT


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVtgPQkdkMs

[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVtgPQkdkMs]
sawdust

climber
May 14, 2019 - 07:12pm PT
Perhaps someone or some group of people could purchase the forum from Chris? I've seen this happen on other forums, there is no particular reason the forum has to go away or even change. Except, of course, the new owners would have to be willing to put in time and money like Chris has.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 14, 2019 - 07:18pm PT
Does anyone here have the slightest idea what the financial metrics are for ST?
mastadon

Trad climber
crack addict
May 14, 2019 - 07:38pm PT
Garrick wouldn’t have gotten his wedding ring back. THAT would be sad...
sawdust

climber
May 14, 2019 - 07:39pm PT
traffic: https://www.similarweb.com/website/supertopo.com#overview
whois: https://whois.icann.org/en/lookup?name=supertopo.com
value and revenue analysis: https://www.worthofweb.com/website-value/supertopo.com/
JLP

Social climber
The internet
May 14, 2019 - 07:57pm PT
I just don’t see this going anywhere unless CMac and RJ purposely destroy it. I personally would buy it before it was destroyed, I’m sure many others are ahead of me.

The crux IMO, and far more important than the money, is finding someone with at least the technical savy of RJ - willing to work for free. All forums I’ve seen have at the core a hard working and tech smart guy as the owner. I don’t see a guy like RJ handing his baby over to anyone less capable than himself.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 14, 2019 - 08:08pm PT
As Russ has pointed out it is not expensive to run something on the scale of ST, nor is it technically difficult. A PHP forum has a short learning curve and requires no programming skill. Check out http://www.widefetish.com to see how slick it is with little work to set it up. There are lots of bells and whistle that can slick it out. It would not be smart to try to keep ST going in its present form. Archive it and start a PHP forum. The good content can be moved over from the archive.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 14, 2019 - 08:12pm PT
Per the last link by Sawdust in his above post, the current internet web-site worth of Supertopo is $41,354.00.

My only experience in selling a business was selling my two outdoor stores in Moscow Idaho & Pullman Washington in 1983 for the net worth of paid for & owned merchandise & the depreciated value of store fixtures. The store buildings were rented & the leases were also a liability.

I had built the net worth of the business up to a conservative $650,000 in the previous 10 years, but as my lawyer pointed out, it had been bleeding money for the previous two years due to new local competition, the 1980's recession, & my in-vain attempts to promote & advertise the stores.

Good will counted for nothing on my business with a two-year record of losing money.

I would be curious what the net depreciated value of Supertopo office equipment --- computers, routers, etc is valued, on their latest tax-return.

That is a high-point for value, with a pending lawsuit & a long-term record of unprofitability.

But, I would also be happy to donate substantially, if management changes & my thousands of deleted photos come back.
L

climber
Just livin' the dream
May 14, 2019 - 08:18pm PT
Like so many others have said, I would dearly miss SuperTopo if it just went away.

I don’t post that much anymore (mainly because my life is so full at this time), but I do like to check in every other day or so just to keep up with what’s going on in the wild world of climbing, climbers and cats.

I love the variety of perspectives, the trip reports, the birthday celebrations, the humor, even the memorials—which sometimes break my heart—but I love everything about this place. It’s a community of vastly interesting and individuated people sharing what is important to them, and there’s an irreplaceable richness to those slice-of-life posts that I’ve never seen anywhere else.

That Chris has been running this site for 18 years is enough to grant him sainthood in my book. That he’s been doing it without making any sort of profit from it elevates him into the realm of a deity. It truly had to have been a labor of love, because I don’t know anyone else who would’ve put up with the BS.

There are obviously many reasons why shutting down the SuperTopo forum would make life easier for Chris and his crew…but…truthfully…I hope the powers that be can figure out a way to keep this campfire going. It’s a rare and sacred place, this Forum, and its loss would be a great tragedy.
jogill

climber
Colorado
May 14, 2019 - 09:05pm PT
Here's my suggestion. The American Alpine Club likes to dole out $$$ to youngsters to scamper in the hills. The AAC could introduce on their website a Campfire Forum for older climbers, like those on ST, and fund it through contributions and fees. A service to the climbing community.


Not holding my breath.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 14, 2019 - 09:14pm PT
That is a great idea Mr. Gill.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
May 14, 2019 - 09:22pm PT
Ideas are good - but IMO AAC or similar would make this place [snip] and everyone would leave.

This site appears highly custom, I wouldn’t under estimate the complexity. If you don’t see that and you think it would be easy, you don’t know much, especially to suggest you could just convert it to another platform - because that would be insane.

IMO - site gets transferred as-is - rebranded a bit - and moved to an offshore server - under a shell of ownership - and any f*#king thing anyone want to say or post gets posted - within reason. Think Degnan’s and everyone has had a 6 pack. That’s what has made this forum what it is IMO.

The only moderating that needs to be done, IMO, is to dispatch truly abusive users, and possibly add daily posting limits as mp.com has done - to prevent a user from dominating or excess bickering.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
May 14, 2019 - 09:23pm PT
The AAC could introduce on their website a Campfire Forum for older climbers, like those on ST, and fund it through contributions and fees. A service to the climbing community.

Yes, and include access to an archive of all the great stuff that is here.

Continuity.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 14, 2019 - 09:25pm PT
These are all good ideas, but unless Chris is willing to discuss the possibilities then there is no point; I haven't seen any indication that Chris is interested in any sort of buy out or whatever. I think all of this is pissing into the wind unless ST shows some interest. And I ain't seen that.
sawdust

climber
May 15, 2019 - 10:05am PT
Hopefully Chris will continue to run the forum for a long time, but if it ever does get to the point where he feels he must divest himself of it, I imagine he would rather see it go to a good home than die altogether. I wish he would discuss it with us, but as far as I can tell he doesn't actually read the posts here.
monolith

climber
state of being
May 15, 2019 - 10:08am PT
The UI is custom, but I bet the backend has an off the shelf database.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Mill Valley, Ca
May 15, 2019 - 10:53am PT
Think Degnan’s and everyone has had a 6 pack.

Ha I first read this as: "and everyone had a six pack" (think abs).
johntp

Trad climber
Punter, Little Rock
May 15, 2019 - 12:55pm PT
Does anyone here have the slightest idea what the financial metrics are for ST?

No clue. Doubt it has salable value as posited above. As I've written before, I participate on a backpacking forum that is member supported with no ads. Members moderate and fund the forum. Can't see why it would not work here.

http://bpbasecamp.freeforums.net/
dhayan

climber
culver city, ca
May 15, 2019 - 12:58pm PT
I am super thankful to have had supertopo to read, learn, and entertain throughout the years - I’m always amazed by the incredible historical accounts straight from the sources. I never participated much other than by getting castigated by some of my heroes now and then but have a ton of respect for all the climbing community represented here and appreciate CMac for creating this resource, even if it’s time has come.
Dhayan
Bobbleseth

Trad climber
Utah
May 15, 2019 - 02:09pm PT



Many that are here, or that left or were booted, are over on FaceBook...

The communication continues, but in a more controlled setting (You're pretty much your own "Hall monitor"...

And there is always Mt Project, which unlike ST, still allows (Or tolerates) photo's and video clips off the internet...

Those that remain here in hopes of it becoming something similar to what it was???...

Time will tell...

But my guess is, this place is TOAST...



For BURCHEY edit: LOL!!!...

Rankin

Social climber
Winston-Salem, North Carolina
May 15, 2019 - 02:43pm PT
Hey Chris I don't know how you've done it this long. You're a prince. Whatever happens I thank you for the forum. -Neil

seano

Mountain climber
none
May 15, 2019 - 03:36pm PT
The AAC could introduce on their website a Campfire Forum for older climbers, like those on ST, and fund it through contributions and fees. A service to the climbing community.
You might try getting in touch with the AAC librarians in Golden. In my dealings with them, both online and in person, they have always been extremely helpful, and dedicated to their job of preserving and sharing climbing lore. As that lore moves online, it ironically becomes more fragile: bits don't decay like books, but sites implode, are ignored, are "sunset" after being bought by Google, etc.

Now if Internet Archive were allowed to crawl this site...
couchmaster

climber
May 15, 2019 - 03:39pm PT

2 things.

1st) Thank you Chris and RJ.

2nd) Forgot the 2nd thing. Lets just stick with #1 then for now.
johntp

Trad climber
Punter, Little Rock
May 15, 2019 - 05:06pm PT
But my guess is, this place is TOAST...

I think it could still survive. Not savvy enough to know how. The support is here. I've been connected with many people via this forum. No problem throwing some $$$ to keep the magic alive.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
May 15, 2019 - 05:15pm PT
True.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 15, 2019 - 08:43pm PT
Jim? Per your post?

I have some bitterness about what happened to my thousands of photos during the current ST management panic about their getting sued for hosting copyrighted photos.

You have some problems too.

What does your advice mean? Other than whitie doesn't hear well?

Go ask your local first nations people to help you with your problem in being understood, regarding your big mouth.

What more do you want ?

After the Sioux killed General Custer at the Battle of The Little Big Horn, the Sioux women worked his ears with awls so he might hear better in his next life?
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
May 16, 2019 - 06:29am PT
Agreed. But the enlisted men who died with him under his irresponsible orders, deserved better as did the brave Sioux defending their homeland.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
May 16, 2019 - 11:14am PT
No doubt, the owners/operators of this forum are weary, and apparently, besieged legally: understood.
The forum has been waning for some time, its demise is imminent, and I won't mind moving on to other things.

But, leaving the archiving of this incredibly valuable asset to a piecemeal and uncoordinated effort by those who care to preserve tiny slices of it is absolutely ridiculous.

CMAC: find a way to preserve this thing, not as a live forum, but as a searchable archive. Please handoff all of this material to someone who knows how to preserve it and make it available for readers, writers, and historians. Find a way to get around any legal exposure associated with that goal. Do it with all of the photographs intact, and not just those of the trip reports, if at all possible. Do the right thing here, please.

Best regards,
Roy McClenahan
ron gomez

Trad climber
May 16, 2019 - 11:20am PT
Roy’s last sentence says it ALL! You absolutely have my full permission to salvage everything I’ve ever put up here, written and photo. This forum evolved into climbing history, it would be irresponsible not to preserve the material.
Peace
johntp

Trad climber
Punter, Little Rock
May 16, 2019 - 12:46pm PT
Roy’s last sentence says it ALL!

While agree the aggregate history needs to be saved, it is through this forum that I have met many people. This forum is a conduit. If it goes away, what will replace the connectivity? Facebook does not replace this campfire.

Whatever will happen will happen, just seems a shame.
Hungry

Trad climber
the new world
May 16, 2019 - 04:06pm PT
JLP: please edit/remove your pejorative use of “gay”, spelled as “ghey” in your previous post on May 14 in this thread. Using “gay” as a derogatory term is a way of saying that homosexuals are not welcome participants in the conversation and/or that they are not legitimate members of the group. There has always been too much casual homophobia on Supertopo. There were some ugly homophobic threads a few years back. Spelling it “ghey” rather than “gay” evinces comprehension of the inappropriateness of its use in that context along with a deliberate disregard for any harm such use might cause.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
May 16, 2019 - 04:19pm PT
Tarbuster, agree about the archives, but snippets are better than absolute Nada. I don't think, really, the forum is waning just changing, evolving.

johntp, maybe a stopgap measure but it might work until something else happens. How about we create an ST Group on FB. At least all of us could keep in touch that way.
Alexey

climber
San Jose, CA
May 16, 2019 - 04:19pm PT
my support and admiration to Roy McClenahan [Tarbuster] proposal of how to save valuable ashes of ST. instead of spreading them all over individual accounts, let's keep them in one searchable place, - reading only .
Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
May 16, 2019 - 06:10pm PT
How about we create an ST Group on FB. At least all of us could keep in touch that way.

It would work, but I like this format a lot better. On facebook it would be competing with all kinds of other things including ads, etc. I think the volume of posts would be just about right. On FB a new post would appear in your newsfeed, and you get notices when someone comments on one that you've commented on. I dont know the numbers but maybe there are 4-5 new threads started here every day? A lot of them are jokes and I doubt people would do this on FB, so that might clean it up a little.

Also, facebook owns the rights to the photos you post, and I am pretty confident that they consider them valuable "content" so you don't have to worry about being purged. I am not sure what FB does if people post copyrighted info. I think half my newsfeed is that.

I follow the Karakoram Club, which has about 150,000 followers but is manageable. They have strict rules about what gets posted, basically photos of the Karakoram and nothing else. There are some really great photographers and others are just people who went there on vacation. A picture might have 500 likes and 50 comments, but you only see it once unless you make the mistake of commenting on it, lol.

Another FB group that I no longer follow but was really good was Colorado Ice Conditions. I am not sure what their rules are for posting things, but don't remember any posts that were completely off topic.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
May 16, 2019 - 06:42pm PT
This forum can survive,Chris you have created a great thing and you can do it again.

Folks here are willing to fund this.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 16, 2019 - 07:05pm PT
I'm with Hungry, we are a fairly macho group here. We are also, I like to believe, a cut above the pack in regards to education and life experiences. We can surely express our manliness in ways that don't reflect negatively on different genders or sexual orientations.
mynameismud

climber
backseat
May 16, 2019 - 07:25pm PT
I am an IT Admin by trade and I am interested in hosting or taking over SuperTopo. I have a potential host location and worst case could probably host out of my own home. I do not currently own hardware but I know what hardware to buy. Not sure if Chris is interested in a hand-off or sale.
L

climber
Just livin' the dream
May 16, 2019 - 07:33pm PT
^^^^ Why don't you write and ask him on the Feedback icon below.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
May 16, 2019 - 07:48pm PT
Don Paul, FaceBook could never replace the Taco. I only meant that if this place disappears we could at least contact people from SuperTopo on a Facebook Group site.

Just trying to come up with a bridge if the worst case happens. I know many of us would like to continue to connect.
WBraun

climber
May 16, 2019 - 08:12pm PT
Ha ha ha ha
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
May 16, 2019 - 09:15pm PT

No way. Host from home and “I know what hardware” = no clue. Some low level tech IT nerd would kill this place in short order, as is part of what happened with RC.com. The right guy needs also to be a hardass that earns and commands respect for their inevitable roll as moderator and full time job as party host.

Jesus JLP, you're not only bitter, nasty and negative, you also frequently prove yourself utterly clueless.

At least you're bold and confident in your cluelessness.

You haven't got idea one who mynameismud really is, what he's capable of, or what he's done. And yet you prattle confidently on....

mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
May 16, 2019 - 09:31pm PT
^^^

Yes, I noticed. He showed integrity in doing that.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
May 16, 2019 - 09:35pm PT
I’m still trying to figure out how a very low-profile site like this could end up in an existential legal proceeding. I mean, how many people post here or are registered? It’s nothing. Who would spend the money to sue a site which is made up of a bunch of rock climbers? It just doesn’t add up.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
May 17, 2019 - 12:41am PT
hey there say, ... leila beine ... just saw this...

i have shared your beautiful journey with so many, after you shared it here...

it has helped so many folks!

so much 'life to touch other lives' all here from the taco...
will be sad, yes, for it to 'stop flowing through the streams of supertopo'
:(


phylp's museum shares, too... i just read her note...

the appreciations, that johntp mentioned...
the simple little things:

like cats, dogs, flowers, clouds (of blitzo) and
so many things...

the list is just so long...




thank you ALL again, for just being here...
(these, along with the trips and history, are, 'living history' as well,
and make folks smile, after the work of the day, is done...
edit-- or, in the middle of a good, day... a place to stop by and
see how friends are doing--as to various topics, for each way of
life, within the climber-world) ...


Climbnrok

Trad climber
LA
May 17, 2019 - 01:50am PT
I’m still trying to figure out how a very low-profile site like this could end up in an existential legal proceeding. I mean, how many people post here or are registered? It’s nothing. Who would spend the money to sue a site which is made up of a bunch of rock climbers? It just doesn’t add up.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1973161/Paul-Ryan-Fourteeners-Thread-Deleted-Why
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
May 17, 2019 - 06:35am PT
^^^
Yeah, this thread is a good example.

But it was almost completely just speculation/conjecture on the part of forum members.
CMAC never addressed any of it, except in private, and even that was cursory if not cryptic:

Rick A wrote in the linked thread:
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2012 - 09:31am PT

I took Werner’s advice and called Chris. We didn’t speak directly, but exchanged voice mails. He said he did not know why the thread was deleted. Apparently he wasn’t even aware of the issue!

So, apologies to Chris for saying that his silence indicated arrogance on his part. Apparently, he has better things to do (climbing?) than follow the discussions on his forum.

Still, there remains the mystery of who deleted the thread and why. I hope Chris can clarify how it came about.

 There was never any clarification, from what I can see. Duck, cover, avoid, ignore.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
May 17, 2019 - 06:53am PT
You haven't got idea one who mynameismud really is
No, I don’t, but after a few decades in high tech I get a pretty good idea after the first sentence - just like most might recognize hyperbole in conversation.

However it was also kind of mean so I deleted it.
Mike.

climber
May 17, 2019 - 08:18am PT
Proud move, JLP.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
May 17, 2019 - 10:38am PT
I just created a closed SuperTopo Campfire on Facebook for the purpose of keeping connection going, not to replace SuperTopo. That's not possible. It's just to keep us connected and to post dates etc. for events.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
May 17, 2019 - 08:37pm PT
Can't find it. Two people have started supertopo groups but I don't see yours.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
May 17, 2019 - 10:09pm PT
Ksolem, go to FB and in the upper left search field type in Super Topo Campfire. Ask to join and you will be a member. Cheers!
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 19, 2019 - 07:06pm PT
For some reason they deleted my innocuous post earlier in the thread for what I can only assume was too extreme of an amount of sarcasm. It must have ruffled hangry's feathers.This place is definitely dead
Toerag

Trad climber
Guernsey, British Channel Islands
May 21, 2019 - 08:17am PT
As an occasional lurker and poster, it boils down to this - Chris has obviously become aware of his liabilities running the site and the potential for legal action and the ramifications of such action. I don't know the laws in the USA, but let's say that he could lose everything if legal action came about due to something on the site. He's decided he doesn't want to take that risk. Which is fair enough. So, what is the alternative?
1) 'hard' moderation with many mods to spread the load - all posts require mod approval before publication?
2) get rid of the site to someone that is willing to take the risk.
3) restrict postings to climbing topics?
3) Archive it, possibly with deletion of contentious posts?

The question is, what are the site owners libilities and what can be done to mitigate them? What do other sites & forums do? The beauty of ST (and UKC) is the power of the 'hive mind' - there must be people on here who know the answers to the questions! I think Chris needs to reach out to the community so we can help find a way forward and retain the hugely useful and entertaining history of this place!
Roadie

Trad climber
moab UT
May 21, 2019 - 08:37am PT
Thanks Chris,
Its been a lot of fun and brought me back in contact with some long lost friends and connected me with some new ones as well.
Good luck, Steve
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
May 21, 2019 - 07:20pm PT
HUGE bummer that the Wayback Machine no longer displays archived ST pages :-(

http://www.supertopo.com/robots.txt now has:

Disallow: /
User-agent: archive.org_bot
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
May 21, 2019 - 07:32pm PT
Are you saying none of this will be accessible?
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
May 21, 2019 - 07:36pm PT
Yes, wilbeer. Unfortunately, NOTHING from supertopo.com shows up on the Wayback Machine anymore.

And the Wayback will NO LONGER accept URLs from the Taco for archiving.

It's because of changes to the robots.txt file on the ST server. The file used to read:

User-agent: *
Disallow: /

but now it blocks a wide variety of agents. :-(
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 21, 2019 - 07:37pm PT
The question is, what are the site owners libilities and what can be done to mitigate them? What do other sites & forums do? The beauty of ST (and UKC) is the power of the 'hive mind' - there must be people on here who know the answers to the questions! I think Chris needs to reach out to the community so we can help find a way forward and retain the hugely useful and entertaining history of this place!

This is pretty easy. Spin the forum off as a non-profit corporation, which has many legal protections. However, this presupposes that Chris WANTS to do this, which it seems pretty clear, that he does not, even if the ship is turned over to a different captain. Having moderated some discussion boards in the past, I can see how it would lead to serious burn-out.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
May 21, 2019 - 07:41pm PT
Man.....kunlan, I tried it you are right. Do you think Chris is going to save it in a new domain?
monolith

climber
state of being
May 21, 2019 - 07:52pm PT
I was under the impression the forum will still be here and searchable. You just won't be able to make new posts.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
May 21, 2019 - 07:55pm PT
Likewise mono. May have been duped,every action on the net costs.
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