Vandalism at JTree

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Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber

moving thru

Jan 12, 2019 - 04:04pm PT

Thoughtful comment, great logic. You'd make an excellent news commentator. :)

apogee

climber

Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy

Jan 12, 2019 - 04:15pm PT

Sorry for the snark, Lynne. Just a bit tired of the shoulder shrugging that's been prevalent amongst several here regarding the shutdown and the impacts on JT. The anecdotal experiences of a few are being projected to create an impression that all of the negative media coverage is complete lefty hype. As usual, there is truth in this that goes both ways.

Trad climber

Calgary

Jan 12, 2019 - 04:28pm PT

When Joshua trees die they seem to fall over from the ground leaving the top of the roots showing. Many big branches may break and fall but does the trunk? Could the trees have been subjected to the force of a truck pulling on a chain wrapped around the trunk?
Just speculating.
What do locals have to say?

Stewart Johnson

Mountain climber

lake forest

Jan 12, 2019 - 04:30pm PT

That tree looks like it’s been like that for awhile

FRUMY

Trad climber

Bishop,CA

Jan 12, 2019 - 04:39pm PT

No, actually that break looks fresh. How it happened I have no idea.

jeff constine

Trad climber

Ao Namao

Jan 12, 2019 - 04:49pm PT

I with Rincon on this, trees feel over naturally. I do not see any tire tracks ether nor footprints. Just more fake news sensationalism.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Jan 12, 2019 - 04:57pm PT

That photo is hardly forensic in quality, angle of view, or any other metric including DATE!
Besides, the bumper on my rig is 3’ in front of my tires so it could easily knock that over
without tire marks being visible in that shot.
A reputable source said at least one tree was chainsawed. That hardly takes a Sherlock
Holmes to discern. This the stoopidest discussion in a while, and that’s a low bar here.

apogee

climber

Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy

Jan 12, 2019 - 05:00pm PT

Yep, everything's fine! JT has sustained no damage. This is an excellent reason to abolish the NPS, so we can ride our ATV's anywhere we want, bolt the sh#t out of the place, and do our 'personal expression' art everywhere.

Batrock

Trad climber

Burbank

Jan 12, 2019 - 05:08pm PT

I think there is plenty of d#@&%ery going on at JT, I saw some pictures of a group parked between boulders obviously off the main road and illegal and a few tire tracks going about a hundred feet off the road. There are plenty of examples it's just that this close up of a tipped over J tree with no other visual context is pretty weak when there are so many other examples.
Its just poor journalism.

Climberdude

Trad climber

Clovis, CA

Jan 12, 2019 - 06:14pm PT

I went out to a BLM wilderness study area today. This area has been proposed as wilderness and is managed as such by the BLM. I saw total lawlessness. People driving into the area on old roads despite markers across the road indicating that the area is closed to motorized vehicles. Bullets flying over my head despite numerous warnings not to fire bullets when people are present. People are so stupid. So much for the promise that people will follow the rules when the "government" is not present. This is so fu#ked!

Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber

moving thru

Jan 12, 2019 - 06:17pm PT

Climberdude, what area was this?

Climberdude

Trad climber

Clovis, CA

Jan 12, 2019 - 06:28pm PT

Panoche Hills North Wilderness Study Area (WSA), which is just west of I-5 in Fresno County. I realize that target shooting has been going on in this entire area for a long time. I have no problem with people out to have fun target shooting. What I do have a problem with is bullets flying over my head in a WSA more than 150 yards from the road, which is definitely not allowed. West of the road you are allowed to do target shooting, east of the road you should not be target shooting since that is a WSA zone.

apogee

climber

Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy

Jan 12, 2019 - 07:26pm PT

Jody, my only point is that the truth is somewhere in between, and as usual, those with ideologic views have coalesced around each other, supporting each other's viewpoints. Both those on the Right and the Left are guilty of skewing their perceptions of this problem according to their political views.

Paul Martzen

Trad climber

Fresno

Jan 12, 2019 - 08:15pm PT

I was wondering what supertopo folks thought of that photo. I see no chips, no saw marks, no tire tracks. It is a very rough break and looks to me natural. A better photo might tell a different story, but I suspect not.

This article shows the same photo but gives other information that seems more plausible, such as a photo of actual tire tracks to an out of bounds campsite.
https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2019/01/joshua-tree-national-park-close-cleanup-repairs-vandalism-illegal-roads

The other photo I have seen of supposed vandalism is high off the ground and even more ragged and seems even more likely to be a natural failure.

On the other hand, since the shutdown, I have noticed a lot of cottonwood branches all over the ground on two properties that I deal with. Coincidence???

Russ Walling

Social climber

from Poofters Froth, Wyoming

Jan 12, 2019 - 08:24pm PT

A point not to forget is that even with the standard Gestapo like presence, this stuff happens because people are idiots. A joshua tree getting chainsawed could and does happen even when the park is fully funded... same with the driving across the desert sh#t and illegal camping. It happens all the time out here.

And for the record, every pic I have seen of downed joshua trees in the latest lazy media barrage has been of a tree that has succumbed to its demise in its natural timeframe. Blown over or fell over. No need for extensive CSI on those pics. It’s bullsh#t.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Jan 12, 2019 - 09:11pm PT

Damn, mine only has a Dremel on the end.

Moof

Big Wall climber

Orygun

Jan 12, 2019 - 09:36pm PT

Years back while in HVCG a storm toppled a large joshua tree. It posed no safety issue lying there on its side with half the roots pulled up. It probably would have gone on living and growing with minimal impact to the usability of the site it was next to. A couple days later a park service grader came through and unceremoniously broke it up and dragged the carcass away.

I walked away with a fresh understanding of how the park service views the park compared to the reverence visitors are required to treat it with. My own guess is that at times when the rules and policies go beyond stupid that there can be a bit of a backlash.

Bad Climber

Trad climber

The Lawless Border Regions

Jan 13, 2019 - 07:16am PT

So, I've seen some pics from a few years ago of when DB's did some graffiti, but I've yet to see any pics from this recent "rash" of vandalism and disrespect that come anywhere close to showing a problem. Anyone got any legit photos? I'm all for piling on the stOOOpid American trashing public when it's deserved, but it would be good to see some evidence. Pics, anyone?

BAd