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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Put “soul *” into Google, and see how many things you come up with.
If language points to our concepts, then there are many places were soul shows up in life. People sing soulful songs, they eat soul food, they have souls, in climbing we often find ourselves searching our souls, etc. Perhaps we could take some insight from that?
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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To be immortal, there must be a living person who speaks your name for then you will still be tethered to this world. Only after your name is no longer spoken does your soul leave this place. This is how both gods and people move on.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Humans, knowing they will die, have become quite adept at dreaming up scenarios that allow for some kind of immortality.
Chimps, our closest living relatives, share 96% of our DNA...do they have souls?
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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^^^^^^^^^^^^
Having been raised in a strange mix of religious (Catholic) and scientific dogma, I remember thinking as a small child (maybe 4 years old) that this was a serious question, indeed. Not so much about chimps, but more about dogs and cats, since those were the non-human animals that I was most familiar with. Authority figures assured me the answer was "no", but I had a feeling they were wrong.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Donini and xCon are still smarting from what they perceived to be the pain and suffering that religion imparted to them. I could still feel the same way about a spanking I got from my father when I was 11. (How dare my father put a hand to my behind! Outrageous!)
When I was a child, I thought childish thoughts. Now that I’ve read, learned, thought, experienced, and reflected on such things, I see them differently. What I thought was concrete and serious in my childhood, I now see far less so. At this stage of my life, I see allegories, analogies, metaphors, images, narratives everywhere that impart insight rather than the so-called plain, naked facts of “information.”
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BDTN
Mountain climber
Mesa AZ
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Spider Savage trying to send you a member to member email not working. Would you be willing to send me a email to start a dialogue
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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You have a small point MikeL. Religion is visited, unrequested, on unsuspecting children... a gateway drug for future bigotry and close mindedness.
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L
climber
Just livin' the dream
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Religion is visited, unrequested, on unsuspecting children... a gateway drug for future bigotry and close mindedness.
I remember sitting in the Methodist church chapel, looking up at a series of beautifully etched reliefs of the crucifixion of Jesus.
I was only 5 at the time, but I distinctly recall wondering how any supposedly omnipresent, omnipotent, all-loving and all-forgiving being could do that to its own "child".
Right then and there I knew it was a lie. That in a universe of lies, THAT was the biggest lie ever created: a vengeful god that demanded the unthinkable of its creations and burned them in hell if they didn't obey.
As part Native American, I've always known a deep connection to the Earth...to our Earth Mother. The energy of life and creation that runs through her is, IMHO, the same energy that runs through us--through ALL beings, animate and inanimate.
I call that energy Spirit....."soul" has too much dogma attached to it. However, I've had several paranormal experiences that others haven't, and can see how difficult the thought of anything beyond our physical manifestation might be.
Truly, I appreciate all the opinions and insights expressed on this thread. It's all so interesting once we (especially me) let go of any judgments.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Donini: Religion is visited, unrequested, on unsuspecting children... a gateway drug for future bigotry and close mindedness.
This is your experience, I take it. Not some theoretical or dramatical claim made? If this is your experience, and if it inflicted great harm on you or a loved one that you've directly observed, then I will take your point as concretely grounded. Otherwise, I think you're hating. It's a very common kind of comment from you and some others here that has finally compelled me to ask you for *your* story. Regale us.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Regale us.
Donini, don't waste your time. Believe you me, it's a black hole and at the bottom of it is an endless merry-go-around.
...
As part Native American, I've always known a deep connection to the Earth...to our Earth Mother. The energy of life and creation that runs through her is, IMHO, the same energy that runs through us--through ALL beings, animate and inanimate.
This is good.
I hope you remain open to the idea that this process or flow and this interconnectedness can be manifested as physics, chemistry and biology at work/play.
...
Right then and there I knew it was a lie. That in a universe of lies...
There should be a thread... "The Age of American Unreason in a Culture of Lies.” (inspired by Susan Jacoby, author)
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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L: . . . a vengeful god that demanded the unthinkable of its creations and burned them in hell if they didn't obey.
This is childish thinking, in my view. “God is an old guy with a beard in a long flowing robe. As God he or she needs to be what I think he should be as God.”
There are innumerable deities and various Gods and impersonal forces that man has articulated to express the indescribable experiences of life and living. Each deity is an expression of some form of personality that resides in, or is hidden from plain sight, in being. There are war gods, vengeful gods, loving gods, smart gods, jealous, gods, gods that personify beauty, greed, yada yada yada. A short education in literature and in some of the other humanities are not meant to educate you on other cultures and their belief systems, than rather to expose the depth and breadth of “you” to yourself.
Yeah, the Yahweh was vengeful and bloody. Christ was not.
Too much modern literalist thinking. Not enough human understanding.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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This is childish thinking, in my view.
A black hole, I tell you. Careful!
Obviously, MikeL didn't spend his so-called formative years in a Church or Mosque every week. So he speaks (to what he knows not) as an outsider.
More important in this age more than ever: Consider the source.
Still, you'd think one could get a clue or two from any casual study of history or even historical current affairs. But, alas, apparently not.
(btw, I was almost "confirmed" at the age of 11 or 12 in one of these fundamentalist literalist churches.)
Words matter: "modern literalist thinking." "Modern"? lol.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Hi Lynne! <3
BDTD moderator wisely disconnect messagging. Sick of our chit. Happy to message savageart -at- gmail -dot- com.
Donini speaks truth. Very hard to objectively get a handle on the soul. Thus this thread. However, a few wise people have done it and it is possible to get a good handle on it. (Not me, I had to search for years and found someone elses good work on the subject to get my handle.) The problem is a "what is mind?" problem. There are elements in the mind of everyone that deny "soul" and fog the vision.
However if you view soul from the viewpoint of energy or source of energy it becomes pretty clear and easy to handle.
Donini is a good case in point: Freekin 80 year old body, runs around with more energy and life force than most 19 year olds. Climbs like a lizard and eat's like a bird. Right there is evidence of a big soul.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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And here is another big soul I can't get enough of:
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WBraun
climber
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More important in this age more than ever: Consider the source.
Anything from this over brainwashed poser HFCS is considered horesh!t as 99% of his garbage sources are always from another over biased brainwashed idiot.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Damn Spider you’re aging me...I turn 75 on 7/23.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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re souls, spirits, ghosts, ghost stars
I remember how Neil deGrasse Tyson spoke of "ghost stars" in his Cosmos II.
The initial definition referred to stars we see in the sky but are no longer actually there because they've blown up some time in the past - only we still see the light traveling to us at finite light speed.
The extended definition referred to the people in our lives (friends, family, ancestors) who are no longer with us but whose light still shines are us (through photo, memories, deeds, etc.)
For Tyson, his "ghost star" was Carl Sagan. Sagan had invited the young Tyson up to his astronomy lab and to Cornell for the weekend (?). If memory serves, Tyson returned to NYC with a signed copy of one of Sagan's books, and the whole meet-up strongly inspired Tyson throughout his course in becoming an astrophysicist.
Carl Sagan is a ghost star for millions of us.
ghost star: a kind of soul, a kind of spirit
EDIT
Here we go, found in 30 seconds. Thanks youtube...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Well, at least the start of the storytelling, lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHgAocE48EM
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L
climber
Just livin' the dream
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This is childish thinking, in my view. “God is an old guy with a beard in a long flowing robe. As God he or she needs to be what I think he should be as God.”
Well Mike...er...I was a child at the time, thus the childish thinking.
However, most religions--fundamentalist and otherwise--appear to embrace this concept these days, at least from what I can see.
Buddhism excluded.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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I could get excited about a stunning goddess in shorts getting the rope up a green camalot crack for me....forget the old, bearded guy with flowing robes.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Sorry Jim, so many numbers floating around. Still, you are my role model.
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