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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 24, 2018 - 06:17pm PT
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There’s a reason bowling is done indoors, besides keeping the flies off yer dip.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 24, 2018 - 07:47pm PT
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They figured out that the leaders are pervs. After all a tent is not exactly soundproof.
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Bluelens
Social climber
Pasadena and Ojai, CA
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Apr 24, 2018 - 09:44pm PT
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http://www.post-gazette.com/news/education/2018/04/18/Penn-state-university-ends-Outing-Club-trips/stories/201804180168
The administration concerns as stated in this article are outing club activities take place in "remote areas" out of cell phone range and far from emergency services.
Really. In my college outing club days we were rarely more than a half day hike from a paved road. That was in New Hampshire. Can Pennsylvania be much different?
Isn't the real problem the people who don't join the outing club, see a pretty Instagram post and hike into the park with no clue?
I could not afford Outward Bound. I lacked buddies to go outdoors with until I joined my college outing club, where I learned winter camping in "Winter School" in January. I learned whitewater canoeing. I learned snowshoeing. We hiked in the White Mountains in winter in three feet of new snow. Without cell phones, GPS, or wicking synthetic fabrics. I made lifelong friends. Bottom line is I could afford it. For a few dollars the club and its leaders/members loaned or rented gear I lacked. The outing club opened doors to a wide world and showed me how to navigate it safely. I hope this Risk Management spark does not catch fire among the rest of higher education or we will lose a generation of leaders--at least those who are unable to pay the higher fees for activities with "trained" and "certified" leaders with expensive communication gear.
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Apr 25, 2018 - 04:09am PT
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I wonder if there is any data regarding the injury rate of, say, the Penn State football program compared to the outdoor club?
Did someone get killed on an outdoor club trip? Maybe if they wore more padding . . .
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Apr 25, 2018 - 07:35am PT
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I like statistics- how bout you? Complicated from several sites- NCAA and a couple others...
Most dangerous sports in college:
Football accounts for the largest percent by a landslide. Although fatalities are generally due to indirect sources like heat stroke and heart attack- the injury and catastrophic injury rate is extremely high. - something like 70% of all players will need some form of medical treatment at some point.
Soccer also rates high with catastrophic head and brain injures resulting in permanent disability. Most fatalities also a result of heat stroke and heart attack.
THE most dangerous of all... resulting in 90% of all players reporting injures. The sport with the highest number of fatalities as a direst result of participation and leaving the most players with permanent injures, paralysis, or a gravestone is... CHEER-LEADING.
I actually could not find a single fatality report (news or otherwise) or any statistics from any source for college outdoor climbing or hiking clubs.
Although I'm sure it has happened- evidently the numbers are so low as not to warrant collecting statistical data. Accidents in NA lumps everyone (student and otherwise) together with around 25 deaths per year
I get the liability concerns....So, from a liability standpoint, explain to me why cheer-leading persists?
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Apr 25, 2018 - 07:45am PT
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Exactly^^^ "Liability" concerns are totally irrelevant when there's T&A involved.
If they outdoor club recruited those chicks I doubt they would have gotten canned.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Apr 25, 2018 - 08:28am PT
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^^ yeah- I was just reading. Something like 30-40 million a year? (for a single big college)
Worth sacrificing a few young girls for entertainment I guess. Cheerleaders probably know the risks involved when they sign up.
Hiking ain't exactly bringing home the bacon for the Universities.
Just stayin'- using "liability" as an explanation for terminating the outdoor clubs when compared to other sports is pretty weak sauce.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 25, 2018 - 08:34am PT
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Doesn’t anybody go to university to study?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 25, 2018 - 09:52am PT
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Our society is devolving into such f*#king pussies.
Our public university system always leads the way in demonstrating the implications of the nanny-state mindset.
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Robb
Social climber
Aloft on the wings of grace
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Apr 25, 2018 - 10:44am PT
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Well, all good comments above, but city folks do have some legit concerns about being outdoors.......
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Apr 25, 2018 - 11:37am PT
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This is a very disturbing development. Say what you will about college outdoor clubs--and some have on here already--many of us got our starts in climbing or other outdoor activities through such organizations, starts to lifetimes of adventures, experiences, and friendships. For me, the outing club (Wisconsin Hoofer Mountaineers) was very much the heart of my non-classes life during college---and I very likely did learn more of future value in that environment than I did in most of my classroom subjects. Such activity or interest-based affinity groups are a crucial part of college life for many, now as it was then, so it is a shame to see them threatened by bureaucratic timidity.
Even more ominous however, though little known to the climbing/outdoor community at large, is the stealthy, on-going effort by the AAC in conjunction with such organizations as the Mazamas, Mountaineers, Colorado Mountain Club, and the Boy Scouts!!!! to establish nationwide, standardized, 'one size fits all' "Mountain Qualification Labels" (I kid you not)for all volunteer leaders and instructors in climbing and many other outdoor pursuits. Once these "Labels" are established, then anyone who wishes to become an instructor or leader (however that is defined) will have go through a certification process (at no small cost I'm sure)in order to be recognized as 'qualified' (and there will also be the required 're-certifications', of course--again not for free). As of now, these "Labels", if they become accepted, will be for the participating organizations, but have no doubt that they will filter down to other groups, gyms, and land managers. I hope you all join me in arguing strongly against this development.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 25, 2018 - 11:48am PT
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It's very important that kids (and young adults) don't run, climb, jump, swim, or otherwise engage with a hard, hard world! We are soft and spongy creatures, after all.
A modern, civilized society is ALL about "protecting" us from the consequences of our choices. So, when it's not reasonably possible to remove consequences, choices must instead be removed.
It's a zero-sum game when governments get involved: Liberty vs. safety. You can't have both, because governments must "protect" at lowest-common-denominator levels.
Since safety is a chimera, liberty is to be preferred.
Ahhh, but then those pesky consequences crop up again, and we can't have people "suffering" the consequences of their choices.
Rinse and repeat.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Apr 25, 2018 - 03:19pm PT
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I belonged to the hang-gliding club back in the day. I bet that's been replaced with something more conducive to vegetation in a safe place for snowflakes.
Sad....
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Apr 25, 2018 - 03:25pm PT
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Not seeing the downside. If you need a club to go outside yer probably squishier than the administrators who shut the whole thing down.
Probably the same type of people that need 15 friends to dog their way up a 70’ hand crack, then all take turns TRing it.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 25, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
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A good friend’s wife is chief counsel for a major SoCal university.
It’s not much of an exaggeration that people will sue over a hangnail.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Apr 25, 2018 - 03:50pm PT
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Less people in the outdoors may be a good thing.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Apr 25, 2018 - 03:52pm PT
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Presumably, though, I can still bash my brains out on the gridiron ... ?
Yes, but only as long as no one is paying you cash to do it.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Apr 25, 2018 - 04:26pm PT
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Coming soon: Penn State Students Outing MeetUp group and Penn State Students Outing Facebook Group.
But it sure does seem discriminatory, if the basis is "danger" concerns.
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Apr 25, 2018 - 05:54pm PT
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https://alpineclub.stanford.edu/who-we-are/about
It is interesting to contrast "PC" Penn. State with the Stanford Alpine Club's mission statement which is basically "go out there and engage in "risky" outdoor fun!!
Very sad, I feel sorry for people who take out loans and pay money to go to Penn. State.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 25, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
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Penn State has $5,800,000 to pay a football coach every year, but they can't come up with the money to insure the outing club.
Football coach should not be a paid position. A graduate student should handle the job.
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