Discussion Topic |
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Apr 23, 2018 - 09:02pm PT
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Crazy. They should ban living too.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Apr 23, 2018 - 09:07pm PT
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If one really wanted to be in the outdoors then why would one be at Penn State anyway? I say good move on their part. Gotta keep that funding in CTE enhancement and outta kayaking and such
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 23, 2018 - 09:08pm PT
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It’s not convenient molesting kids outdoors in PA.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 23, 2018 - 09:27pm PT
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Probably because there are no showers...
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Apr 23, 2018 - 11:34pm PT
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PSOC always kinda sucked, but it did allow some friends to " acquire" some gear for cheap
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Apr 24, 2018 - 03:33am PT
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My irony meter just melted down
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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Apr 24, 2018 - 05:25am PT
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The football locker room showers are indoors and don't seem too safe at Penn State either.
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jamatt
Social climber
Asheville, NC
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Apr 24, 2018 - 05:51am PT
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Good. If you've ever shared the wilderness with a college outdoor program, you'll be celebrating. Worse than Boy Scouts.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Apr 24, 2018 - 05:59am PT
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best that we look to the future, one populated by great indoorsman
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Apr 24, 2018 - 06:22am PT
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REALLY??? WTF?
My irony meter just melted down
LOL ^^^Nuclear meltdown
Our society is devolving into such f*#king pussies.
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RURP_Belay
Big Wall climber
Bitter end of a bad anchor
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Apr 24, 2018 - 06:33am PT
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The East Coast is scary, I don't blame them.
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thirsty
climber
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Apr 24, 2018 - 06:36am PT
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Institutions abandoning their support of outdoor activities because of liability concerns is good. Institutions acting in concert with their insurers to restrict and control outdoor activities in order to minimize risk is bad. Individuals intelligently accepting risk associated with outdoor activities free from institutional oversight or the limitations of insurance mandated regulation is good.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Apr 24, 2018 - 07:28am PT
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I used to go outdoors; then I discovered ST.
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Apr 24, 2018 - 07:31am PT
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But the Boxing Club, where the only goal is to hurt another student, is still going. Okay...
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 24, 2018 - 09:54am PT
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This seems like a CYA for the university to avoid liability, and a very minor technicality from the club's perspective. The club should exist as a social meeting place, a clearing house to find partners and trip leaders, and then trip leaders plan private personal trips. Problem solved.
The other issue is whether or not funds from the university can subsidize gear rentals or group gear purchases, reservation fees, etc.... that seems like a waste and overly entitled to expect.
All that being said, there is still a clear hypocrisy in supporting/subsidizing other sports. Historically speaking, it is justified by the fact that those other sports can draw in revenues and attract alumni/boosters who donate more. Oh well. Where are the rabid outdoor enthusiast fans that bequeath millions of dollars to the university to bolster those programs?
Edit: Roger, bwahahaha!
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Trump
climber
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Apr 24, 2018 - 11:49am PT
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So what? Some silly college somewhere doesn’t want to pay the liability insurance for one of their clubs, and we think that means the sky is falling? Pussies sounds about right. Go out and enjoy the outdoors if that’s what we want to do.
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docsavage
Trad climber
Albuquerque, NM
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Apr 24, 2018 - 05:42pm PT
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Presumably, though, I can still bash my brains out on the gridiron ... ?
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Apr 24, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
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stay inside. let's drink your beer. that's *safe*
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 24, 2018 - 06:14pm PT
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http://sites.psu.edu/outingclub/
Liability is not cheap.
Does your local college have an outing club?Just curious.
98 years?
What Randisi said ,really.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 24, 2018 - 06:17pm PT
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There’s a reason bowling is done indoors, besides keeping the flies off yer dip.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 24, 2018 - 07:47pm PT
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They figured out that the leaders are pervs. After all a tent is not exactly soundproof.
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Bluelens
Social climber
Pasadena and Ojai, CA
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Apr 24, 2018 - 09:44pm PT
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http://www.post-gazette.com/news/education/2018/04/18/Penn-state-university-ends-Outing-Club-trips/stories/201804180168
The administration concerns as stated in this article are outing club activities take place in "remote areas" out of cell phone range and far from emergency services.
Really. In my college outing club days we were rarely more than a half day hike from a paved road. That was in New Hampshire. Can Pennsylvania be much different?
Isn't the real problem the people who don't join the outing club, see a pretty Instagram post and hike into the park with no clue?
I could not afford Outward Bound. I lacked buddies to go outdoors with until I joined my college outing club, where I learned winter camping in "Winter School" in January. I learned whitewater canoeing. I learned snowshoeing. We hiked in the White Mountains in winter in three feet of new snow. Without cell phones, GPS, or wicking synthetic fabrics. I made lifelong friends. Bottom line is I could afford it. For a few dollars the club and its leaders/members loaned or rented gear I lacked. The outing club opened doors to a wide world and showed me how to navigate it safely. I hope this Risk Management spark does not catch fire among the rest of higher education or we will lose a generation of leaders--at least those who are unable to pay the higher fees for activities with "trained" and "certified" leaders with expensive communication gear.
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Apr 25, 2018 - 04:09am PT
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I wonder if there is any data regarding the injury rate of, say, the Penn State football program compared to the outdoor club?
Did someone get killed on an outdoor club trip? Maybe if they wore more padding . . .
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Apr 25, 2018 - 07:35am PT
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I like statistics- how bout you? Complicated from several sites- NCAA and a couple others...
Most dangerous sports in college:
Football accounts for the largest percent by a landslide. Although fatalities are generally due to indirect sources like heat stroke and heart attack- the injury and catastrophic injury rate is extremely high. - something like 70% of all players will need some form of medical treatment at some point.
Soccer also rates high with catastrophic head and brain injures resulting in permanent disability. Most fatalities also a result of heat stroke and heart attack.
THE most dangerous of all... resulting in 90% of all players reporting injures. The sport with the highest number of fatalities as a direst result of participation and leaving the most players with permanent injures, paralysis, or a gravestone is... CHEER-LEADING.
I actually could not find a single fatality report (news or otherwise) or any statistics from any source for college outdoor climbing or hiking clubs.
Although I'm sure it has happened- evidently the numbers are so low as not to warrant collecting statistical data. Accidents in NA lumps everyone (student and otherwise) together with around 25 deaths per year
I get the liability concerns....So, from a liability standpoint, explain to me why cheer-leading persists?
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Apr 25, 2018 - 07:45am PT
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Exactly^^^ "Liability" concerns are totally irrelevant when there's T&A involved.
If they outdoor club recruited those chicks I doubt they would have gotten canned.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Apr 25, 2018 - 08:28am PT
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^^ yeah- I was just reading. Something like 30-40 million a year? (for a single big college)
Worth sacrificing a few young girls for entertainment I guess. Cheerleaders probably know the risks involved when they sign up.
Hiking ain't exactly bringing home the bacon for the Universities.
Just stayin'- using "liability" as an explanation for terminating the outdoor clubs when compared to other sports is pretty weak sauce.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 25, 2018 - 08:34am PT
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Doesn’t anybody go to university to study?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 25, 2018 - 09:52am PT
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Our society is devolving into such f*#king pussies.
Our public university system always leads the way in demonstrating the implications of the nanny-state mindset.
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Robb
Social climber
Aloft on the wings of grace
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Apr 25, 2018 - 10:44am PT
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Well, all good comments above, but city folks do have some legit concerns about being outdoors.......
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Apr 25, 2018 - 11:37am PT
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This is a very disturbing development. Say what you will about college outdoor clubs--and some have on here already--many of us got our starts in climbing or other outdoor activities through such organizations, starts to lifetimes of adventures, experiences, and friendships. For me, the outing club (Wisconsin Hoofer Mountaineers) was very much the heart of my non-classes life during college---and I very likely did learn more of future value in that environment than I did in most of my classroom subjects. Such activity or interest-based affinity groups are a crucial part of college life for many, now as it was then, so it is a shame to see them threatened by bureaucratic timidity.
Even more ominous however, though little known to the climbing/outdoor community at large, is the stealthy, on-going effort by the AAC in conjunction with such organizations as the Mazamas, Mountaineers, Colorado Mountain Club, and the Boy Scouts!!!! to establish nationwide, standardized, 'one size fits all' "Mountain Qualification Labels" (I kid you not)for all volunteer leaders and instructors in climbing and many other outdoor pursuits. Once these "Labels" are established, then anyone who wishes to become an instructor or leader (however that is defined) will have go through a certification process (at no small cost I'm sure)in order to be recognized as 'qualified' (and there will also be the required 're-certifications', of course--again not for free). As of now, these "Labels", if they become accepted, will be for the participating organizations, but have no doubt that they will filter down to other groups, gyms, and land managers. I hope you all join me in arguing strongly against this development.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 25, 2018 - 11:48am PT
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It's very important that kids (and young adults) don't run, climb, jump, swim, or otherwise engage with a hard, hard world! We are soft and spongy creatures, after all.
A modern, civilized society is ALL about "protecting" us from the consequences of our choices. So, when it's not reasonably possible to remove consequences, choices must instead be removed.
It's a zero-sum game when governments get involved: Liberty vs. safety. You can't have both, because governments must "protect" at lowest-common-denominator levels.
Since safety is a chimera, liberty is to be preferred.
Ahhh, but then those pesky consequences crop up again, and we can't have people "suffering" the consequences of their choices.
Rinse and repeat.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Apr 25, 2018 - 03:19pm PT
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I belonged to the hang-gliding club back in the day. I bet that's been replaced with something more conducive to vegetation in a safe place for snowflakes.
Sad....
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Apr 25, 2018 - 03:25pm PT
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Not seeing the downside. If you need a club to go outside yer probably squishier than the administrators who shut the whole thing down.
Probably the same type of people that need 15 friends to dog their way up a 70’ hand crack, then all take turns TRing it.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 25, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
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A good friend’s wife is chief counsel for a major SoCal university.
It’s not much of an exaggeration that people will sue over a hangnail.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Apr 25, 2018 - 03:50pm PT
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Less people in the outdoors may be a good thing.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Apr 25, 2018 - 03:52pm PT
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Presumably, though, I can still bash my brains out on the gridiron ... ?
Yes, but only as long as no one is paying you cash to do it.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Apr 25, 2018 - 04:26pm PT
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Coming soon: Penn State Students Outing MeetUp group and Penn State Students Outing Facebook Group.
But it sure does seem discriminatory, if the basis is "danger" concerns.
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Apr 25, 2018 - 05:54pm PT
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https://alpineclub.stanford.edu/who-we-are/about
It is interesting to contrast "PC" Penn. State with the Stanford Alpine Club's mission statement which is basically "go out there and engage in "risky" outdoor fun!!
Very sad, I feel sorry for people who take out loans and pay money to go to Penn. State.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 25, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
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Penn State has $5,800,000 to pay a football coach every year, but they can't come up with the money to insure the outing club.
Football coach should not be a paid position. A graduate student should handle the job.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Apr 27, 2018 - 11:13pm PT
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wife of French President Emmanuel Macron, said though she is "really fun" her US counterpart First Lady Melania Trump "can’t go outside"
pretty pertinent cultural trend here. t'other day I had a grown male human ask me how to urinate in the out of doors. we were in Wyoming so I said "not into the wind" and left it there.
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Don Paul
Gym climber
Denver CO
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Apr 28, 2018 - 06:07am PT
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Definitely avoid child molesters and football coaches. The bears in the woods are not so bad.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 28, 2018 - 06:21am PT
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Errant meteroites, rabid bats, poison ivy, crag dogs...you name it, the outdoors is rife with hazards. Secure game rooms where the youth of our country can enrich their minds with social media and their bodies with pop tarts may be the only viable answer.
I’ll soldier forth in an increasingly empty outdoors hoping there isn't a lurking mountain lion on the next tree branch I walk under.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Apr 28, 2018 - 06:42am PT
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It is hard to get lamer than a school administrator--at any level. But to echo some of the sentiments above, shouldn't be too hard for kidz to organize their own outings. I was briefly part of a climbing group associated with my uni, and it was okay, but the course ended when a belayer assumed a climber out of sight was off belay. Dude unhooked, walked away, and the climber cratered from 60 feet up. By some fluke, she didn't die, but the permanent brain damage changed her life and the lives of her kids forever. I don't think there was a lawsuit. That was decades ago. Probably instant legal action now.
BAd
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Apr 28, 2018 - 07:32am PT
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College is the last time to stop these kids before they breed. I left 2 or 3 in the woods every semester.
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TLP
climber
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Apr 28, 2018 - 09:26am PT
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Donini, from the photos I've seen on this site, you need to pork up considerably to be of interest as a prey item. Way too stringy for any sensible large predator. You might be able to interest a tick or mosquito but not much more.
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| Messages 1 - 46 of total 46 in this topic |
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