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cavemonkey
Ice climber
ak
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If you think you will be saving money by buying a modded out turbo sled that only runs on 100....you got another thing coming. Pay now or pay later. My summit 800 easily takes 2 to the top, heck, even my m-6 rarely had problems. A longer track is the key and tighten up your suspension.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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I assume many airports would not, and certainly should not, sell avgas for non-aviation purposes because of 42 U.S.C. section 7545(g). "No person shall introduce, or cause or allow the introduction of, leaded gasoline into any motor vehicle which is labeled "unleaded gasoline only..." Snowmobiles are not "motor vehicles" under the clean air act but selling avgas to randoms who show up at the airport without an airplane would be a risk. Legal issues aside, leaded gas is toxic and people really shouldn't be using it for recreation.
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pvalchev
Social climber
Truckee, CA
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This used to be done commonly but yes, I think it's becoming a no-go. This is what my airport sent on Dec 1 2017:
"
100LL FUEL FOR AVIATION USE ONLY

Aviation Fuel - 100LL
Starting on December 01, 2017, 100LL Aviation Fuel will no longer be available at KTRK for non-aviation users, ie: boats, OHV's, etc...
Truckee Tahoe Airport District Standard Procedure Instruction SPI Number 171.2 is now in effect. The purpose of the SPI is to mitigate the potential misuse of leaded fuel products and promote public health and welfare of the community and surrounding environment.
"
SPI 171.2:
https://www.govregs.com/regulations/expand/title49_chapterI_part171_subpartA_section171.2#title49_chapterI_part171_subpartA_section171.2
I don't know if all airports have complied and have banned it, but I wouldn't choose to rely on avgas for non-aviation uses myself.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Is this a two stroke engine? It's really difficult to turbocharge 2 strokes effectively. As to toluene, that was the main component in the previous Formula One turbo era, it allowed incredible compression ratios to be run; beware of exposure issues. If this engine sucks through a carb, which I'm pretty sure it does, you might have real mixture issues. Seriously, go with a stock engine.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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I’m with winemaker ..... at the Kart races we sell 110 for some of the crazy shifter Karts 2stroke, 5 gal for $85.
Sounds like you and the owner of this super snowmobile might not know what you’re doing, the actual configuration is in question.
You need to know before you plunk down big $$$.
Sometimes a “DEAL” is far from a deal regarding hi-performance equipment.
Best of luck.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 1, 2018 - 12:14pm PT
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95% of those craigslist listings for snowmobiles are just trailers with a bunch of keywords added.
I'd go with stock but this is the only long track in my price range I've seen for a while that's not super old.
I just bought some av gas down the road in reedley to take it for a test run and, as usual, nobody even works there and it wasn't an issue.
Pvalchev,
Very interesting, the seller was turned down in truckee and that's why he thinks it's no longer possible to buy gas at airports. Which is also why he's selling it cheap.
The good news, I talked to the makers of the boondocker turbos and they said you switch out a $120 part and can run it on premium so that's what I plan on doing.
Learning lots here, thanks everyone! Hopefully I don't get totally screwed buying something with so much aftermarket work but the trailer/sled deal is too good for me to pass up.
Fingers crossed! I'll report back after taking it out Sunday!
Edit: winemaker and guyman: you're correct that I don't know what I'm doing :) It's a two stroke with fuel injection. My previous sled was bored out, suped up and ran on av gas and I rode that thing into the dirt before it finally pooped out from the fuel system eroding. Hope this one treats me as well
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Limp-Return that rocket sled and get yourself a Bearcat grooming special edition. Then buy a Ginzoo groomer from West Yellowstone and a fast pair of skate skis and you're all set to go. Oh and make sure the Bearcat has a good winch on the front.
You'll get in way better shape and won't piss off everyone for miles around.
Arne
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Again... good luck.
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
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Interesting statement that AvGas can only be used in aviation engines only. Seeing how I work in an industry that uses AvGas in the support equipment engines (ie power carts and the like) used to work on aircraft, I find that questionable IMO.
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SFDukie
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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I don't know regs re avgas sales but procedurally, it's easy. Pick your preferred airport. https://www.airnav.com/airports/
In info section, it lists sources of avgas. call them and ask them for gate code. FBOs sell fuel to folks filling gas cans regularly, and personally, I've never been asked if I'm putting the fuel in an airplane or not
Don
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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In the 1980s the FBO I flew with at began using auto gas in their 172s and 152s, the FAA had approved it. I was suspicious because we would always have water in the sumps, avgas is much higher quality
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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104+ brand octane booster, available at any autoparts store or big box, for a few bucks. No more trouble than mixing oil for a 2 stroke.
Make sure it's compatible with the 2 stroke. Lucas' octane booster says it's not for 2 strokes. I would guess that's because it deteriorates the oil in the gas, or corrodes the crankcase.
Check with the turbo company about using an intercooler. One of those is about $100 on eBay, and would improve gas mileage, and keep the engine cooler, for longer life.
What is that $120 part that allows you to use premium gas? A pressure-limiting wastegate?
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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As an ex-formula car driver, engine builder, etc. I'm curious about turbo-ing a two stroke. What do you do for oil supply to the turbo? How do you map timing, etc? What about the exhaust expansion chamber(s), reed valves, etc. etc.? Mixture control, oil feed..... Taking a quick Google it looks difficult. Please advise.
Edit: Just found some videos of turbo snowmobiles. Why don't motorcycle guys turbo? Does this setup really last? Mucho smoke. Curious about output.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Modern turbo engines may not be rocket science,
but they’re close! I mean F1 engines are 1.7L V-6’s
and they put out like 900 HP? That’s rocket science.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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locker: Formula Ford, Formula Ford 2000, couple of Atlantic drives. Sorry, not sure what you mean by 'launch'.
Reilly, they're 1600 cc engines. In the first turbo era in the early-mid 80's the engines were 1500 cc. With unlimited boost (over 4 bar) the BMW 4 cylinder engine, using an actual production BMW iron block, was reaching 1200 h.p. in qualifying. Honda was reputed to have run an oval piston engine on the dynamo to over 1500 h.p. before oval pistons were outlawed. Toluene, as mentioned above, was the fuel that made this possible; it WAS called rocket fuel! It would test below the allowed maximum 102 octane rating, but would effectively be way above that during combustion.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan, Former USSR
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I used to put them in my car every week for 2 years while working on planes Aviation gas has higher lead then normal gas and it is made to lubricate and cool engine parts suck as valves, No harm other than extra deposits on the head .
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Locker, never launched, but did come to sudden stops several times.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2018 - 10:43pm PT
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What is that $120 part that allows you to use premium gas? A pressure-limiting wastegate? That's exactly what they said it was
As an ex-formula car driver, engine builder, etc. I'm curious about turbo-ing a two stroke. What do you do for oil supply to the turbo? How do you map timing, etc? What about the exhaust expansion chamber(s), reed valves, etc. etc.? Mixture control, oil feed..... Taking a quick Google it looks difficult. Please advise.
There's a separate oil reservoir on the turbo. It has a computer with a screen to make adjustment. Not sure about exhaust but everything is aftermarket except the frame and engine block. The seller said it's a good idea to replace the reeds every summer if I put a lot of hours on it. Cheap parts, but a hassle.
UPDATE
For better or worse, I bought it! Short test run in Tahoe and a couple hours on it around Huntington lake today. It ran great and is absolutely unreal. 240 horsepower and when the boost kicks in (set as low as possible) I can barely hold on. It'll definitely get my wife up the hills for her snowboard runs. And get me to the border of the wilderness for splitboard laps. Buying gas at the local airport was not an issue but I still plan on detuning it to run on premium this summer.
Got the full story. Original owner was sponsored and got upgrades for free. $13,000 new, with $23,000 of aftermarket parts. It's essentially made of aftermarket parts except the frame and top end. No airports around Sacramento or Tahoe will sell avgas without an airplane anymore so the current owner is selling it to move to a state with "less dumb government than California"
Thanks for all the comments here, it was really informative even though OT. Now I just need to get better at riding!
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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They tolerate it in airplanes because they, apparently, need it.
They don’t need it. It’s cheaper than formulating high octane other ways, and the airplane folks have a good lobby.
Thirty years ago the car folks told us taking lead out of car gas would cripple the economy.
Ended up costing half a penny a gallon, which the oil companies used to charge 3¢ more.
Nobody noticed.. oil cartel price controls swamped the effect.
The Avgas makers were mandated in 2014 to make all all gas unleaded by 2018, and they found excuses not to. So it is still allowed for planes, but your snowmobile doesn’t get to piggyback on that.
Unleaded solutions have been available for 70 years and has been sold in the EU for 20 years.
UL avgas is mandated and 100 octane UL is readily available.
http://www.hjelmco.com/pages.asp?r_id=14663
http://www.avgas.pl/?pl_unleaded-avgas-spreads,79
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Limiting lead emissions with-in the state is hardly dumb. Particularly in light of the fact that we are talking about a toy.
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