James Franco

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Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 12, 2018 - 01:31pm PT
Was just in a restaurant and browsed a story in the Times about actor James Franco, where various former acting students of his (he has an acting academy) are accusing him of inappropriate behavior, making them uncomfortable and so on. This one sounds like a tough article to unpack since, as the story reads, Franco used his position and notoriety to get what he wanted, while apparently doing nothing abusive in legal terms. No doping people's drinks, groping, and so forth. But tasteless stuff nevertheless, and abusing people's trust. Not good, if true.

The challenge is that men and women have used their good looks, power, wealth, position and most any leverage they have to get what they want so long as the world's been turning, and many haven't much cared what people think or feel about it. Not to excuse Franco for being a creep, if he was one, and not wanting to get into Identity Politics, but this does make us question our motives.

Thing is, if everyone guilty of using their charms and position were to face public trial, I reckon half the world would look selfish.

Seems like what is really being argued here is trust, and the fallout when that is broken for selfish reasons.
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 12, 2018 - 02:04pm PT
I watched this the other night...he seemed sincere...hard sayin' not knowin'...

Dapper Dan

Trad climber
Redwood City
Jan 12, 2018 - 02:46pm PT
Wether or not you believe the allegations against him, it's pretty stupid of Franco to jump on the #timesup #metoo bandwagon when he might have these skeletons in his closet.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 12, 2018 - 02:58pm PT
Trust? Hmmm, more like common decency, ethics, empathy and respect. Any time anyone lords any form of advantage over another person in exchange for sex it's a violation. And really, If you have looks, money, fame and power or some combination thereof and you can't get laid without tripping out on innocents then you're a pathetic loser.
T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Jan 12, 2018 - 03:01pm PT
I thought he portrayed Aron Ralston in 127 Hours well,
only movie I've seen him in.

I wonder why it's always the rich, powerful or famous men that are being called out, never the Joe Schmoe off the street. ;)
Any of these accusers have verifiable evidence other than hearsay?


healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 12, 2018 - 03:12pm PT
Any of these accusers have verifiable evidence other than hearsay?

Seriously? We're kind of trying to head things off before the harassers are all using go pros and facebook live...
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jan 12, 2018 - 03:18pm PT
Any of these accusers have verifiable evidence other than hearsay?

eye witness testimony is never hearsay. I think what you meant to say, is their any evidence other than he said/she said. Sometimes there is a smoking gun, but people that act like aholes generally try to not leave a paper trail.
rwedgee

Ice climber
CA
Jan 12, 2018 - 04:48pm PT
Is dragging a hot newb chick up a wall and getting laid a violation these days ?
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jan 13, 2018 - 06:31am PT
The challenge is that men and women have used their good looks, power, wealth, position and most any leverage they have to get what they want so long as the world's been turning, and many haven't much cared what people think or feel about it. Not to excuse Franco for being a creep,

Well if he didn't care then he shouldn't care now.

DMT
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Jan 13, 2018 - 07:41am PT
Thing is, if everyone guilty of using their charms and position were to face public trial, I reckon half the world would look selfish.

The search for Mr. Honorable would yield a much smaller percentage than 50.

As far as facing public trial goes, be ready for a lot more of this. Separating insensitive idiotic behavior from aggressive action that violates another's will could be very subjective given the range of sensitivities and belief of acceptable behavior is all over the map.

To achieve a common decency we could teach behavior standards starting in grade in schools worldwide, with the purpose of making a nice society. Recording all public interactions and a good part of our private lives will make the policing of the fine points possible. Get a $400 fine for an inappropriate comment or look?
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2018 - 10:10am PT
Separating insensitive idiotic behavior from aggressive action that violates another's will could be very subjective given the range of sensitivities and belief of acceptable behavior is all over the map.
--


That's the gray area that many ranting from Identity Politics fail to recognize - that we all, men and women, use what we have to get our way. People get USED in this dynamic. Makes me look at my own behavior. Don't wanna be "that guy," because I certainly can be.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 13, 2018 - 10:28am PT
I wonder why it's always the rich, powerful or famous men that are being called out, never the Joe Schmoe off the street. ;)


Because it is the rich, powerful or famous men who have the power to abuse.

Joe Schmoe doesn't have that power, for the most part.

The other reason is that Joe is not held up as a paragon of society, that everyone should emulate. To a person who has been abused, that is abuse all over again. That publicity just rubs it in.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Jan 14, 2018 - 08:01am PT

There are monsters that abuse people by by both force and fabrication. Personal devastation is caused by both predators and the intolerant. They are both ancient monsters, one has better camouflage than the other.


A powerful woman's response to a few questions including the subject of the #MeToo movement.

(CNN)Former US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said that while she believes the #MeToo movement is "a good thing," people need "to be a little bit careful" about how they respond to it.

"Let's not turn women into snowflakes. Let's not infantilize women," Rice insisted during an interview with CNN's David Axelrod on "The Axe Files," which airs at 7 ET Saturday night.
Rice said she didn't want "to get to a place that men start to think, 'Well, maybe it's just better not to have women around.' I've heard a little bit of that. And it, it worries me," she told Axelrod.
Following last year's downfall of Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein after sexual harassment and assault allegations, people have begun sharing their stories of sexual harassment and abuse, using the hashtag #MeToo.
Rice, the first African-American woman to become secretary of state, was careful to emphasize that she didn't want to "belittle" women who have shared their stories of sexual harassment "because we're all different."
Asked by Axelrod if she had ever been a victim of harassment, Rice said she'd "certainly had people say inappropriate things."
"I've certainly had people suggest that maybe we should just go out -- and you know -- and situations in which it was somebody more senior than I," she said.
"I've never had anyone do anything that I would consider assault. But I don't know a woman alive who hasn't had somebody say or do something that was inappropriate at best and aggressive at worst," she added.
Axelrod asked Rice if she had any advice for Oprah Winfrey amid reports the media titan is "actively thinking" about running for president.
"I would say to Oprah, be sure that you really want to be a politician," Rice said.
She said she would never run for president herself, preferring policy to politics.
"You know there's a funny thing that happens when you're secretary of state, or you're a celebrity, you're out there representing the world," she said.
"Everybody gets to make a blank page of what they think you would look like as the president. And they only focus on those characteristics that they want to see in the president. Now you're running for office, and all of a sudden, you're not that person who's just a blank sheet of paper.
"But I would just say, if you're contemplating running for office, just recognize that we put people through a brutal process. And they don't come out quite the same," she said.
applejax

climber
Jan 14, 2018 - 08:56am PT
If every man were judged by rude behavior for our entire lives we'd all look bad. So would all women.
Every person you dumped or ignored hates you.
Level of tolerance now is gone and with social media ranting everyone is a victim.

if everyone guilty of using their charms and position and brains were to face public trial, all the world would look selfish.
applejax

climber
Jan 14, 2018 - 09:01am PT
If a woman is attracted to the guy he's charming. If not he's a creep and sexual harasser.
That's how they decide who's life to ruin . Problem is he doesn't know in advance.
applejax

climber
Jan 14, 2018 - 11:35am PT
Radio host garrison Keillor of NPRs prairie home companion had his life ruined.
His felony crime: he touched a woman's back.
Still think it can't happen to you?!
gruzzy

Social climber
socal
Jan 15, 2018 - 11:35am PT
If I wasn't there, I don't think I could say what happened. Note to self, look for mind reading classes
AKDOG

Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
Jan 15, 2018 - 04:35pm PT
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/opinion/aziz-ansari-babe-sexual-harassment.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

interesting op ed in the NY times


applejax

climber
Jan 15, 2018 - 06:29pm PT
That was and interesting article on Aziz. Woman goes to a Male, Aziz's place on a date. Keeps turning him down but she stays there. Then she willingly performs oral sex on him. Then after hours she leaves. Then she regrets her actions. Never alleges a crime. Then months or years later attacks him online because he came on too strong. Hmmmmm
applejax

climber
Jan 15, 2018 - 06:34pm PT
Outraged bilingual runner: Every runner including myself wears earbuds with the volume turned up and can't hear people. You can complain to the foreman, building superintendent or construction company manager/owner. In today's PC climate you might get $100,000 settlement.
Or just rage on social media.
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