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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2018 - 08:24pm PT
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"...just El Cap nailing," said the man who, with Dennis Hennek, did the 2nd acsent of the North American Wall.
Dear Mr. Lauria,
Thank you for your submission for our upcoming issue, "The Lives They Lived: Royal Robbins 'He Earsed His Soul in a Climbing Battle with a Rival" (Working title only.)
We are sorry that we are not able to accept your banal characterisation of climbing the WOEML as just El Cap "nailing" and find your failure to remember Mr. Robbins' existential angst when he finally recognized the horrendous difficulties in ascending Mr. Harding's route less than compelling.
While we accept that climbers are sticklers for the truth, in our continued search for the most compelling ways to tell stories, our current editorial guidelines allow fake news if it is believed this will provide our readers with a more authentic experience.
Sincerely,
NYTimes Sunday Magazine
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Dear Mr. Lauria,
Thank you for your submission...
LOL. Funniest fake news of the new year.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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Thanks, Roger, both for posting this and for that bit of wit just above.
It was nice to see a climber so honoured, however imperfectly. Simply that the New York Times chose to include Royal as an "important American" who died in 2017 is impressive.
I agree that a lot more could might have been said about Royal, to truly illustrate his life, climbs and values. There was much more to him than the WOEML incident, and as humans, we all have feet of clay at times. Royal was the first to admit when he didn't measure up to his own standards, as on Tis-sa-ack.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
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I knew Royal pretty well during the 'Golden Age'...shared camps and climbs and philosophy discussions....
I also knew Harding, though not as well...and some people around here get very annoyed at some of the stories I know...so just leave them rest...
I don't think this article at all does justice to either of them or captures the spirit of the times.
...but that's about what I would expect from the New York Times, which I normally rarely read.
...and years ago I've had occasions to visit the chief editor in his office and discuss such things.
So it happened by chance that I sat down over coffee and read most of this issue, arriving by surprise to the article about Royal.
I found most of the articles that I read in the issue to be mediocre, heavily biased and poorly researched...reinforcing why I rarely read it...
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duncan
climber
London, UK
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This piece appears to be derived from Valley Uprising and similarly lacks nuance. It is a shame that Robbins' life has been so oversimplified when it was clearly far more complex and interesting.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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I believe the author encapsulates Robbin’s personality pretty well. I also think that Harding was done a disservice being described as Robbin’s “alcoholic rival” without having his personality fleshed out.
Lastly, I agree with others that the Robbins/Harding rivalry was one aspect of his career and should not be the centerpiece for what, to all intents, is an obituary in a national publication.
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Royal on his WEML quandary:
“So I was faced with this existential problem which I could see quite clearly: Should I act for the sake of consistency, which would certainly bring me harsh criticism, or should I stop something I now felt was wrong – and by doing so look like a fool? I decided I had to stop. Because if my actions were going to be motivated solely by consideration of what people might think, I was finished anyway. So I talked to Don in the morning, and that’s what we did.”
He later expressed:
“… it looked right at the time, and the iron was hot, so we took the risk that we might turn out to be doing the wrong thing. But everyone makes mistakes. I’m happy to admit this was one.”
As to the so-called Robbins/Harding “rivalry” that I think implied “dislike”, Royal offered:
“Although the climb might not have been done exactly to our taste, and although we might have fretful little criticisms that envy always produces, we can better spend our energy in ways other than ripping and tearing, or denigrating the accomplishments of others … I admire Harding because he is a great exponent of individualism, which I think is one of the most important features of climbing. It’s one of the things I came into climbing for … He has always been a loner, and in these days of conformity, of the death of individualism, of joiners and organizations, of group assertion, it is refreshing to see the crusty, intense, eccentric individualism of a Harding. Good to have a man around who doesn’t give a damn what the establishment thinks. As our sport becomes more institutionalized, Harding stands out as a magnificent maverick.”
One of the best discussions of the whole WEML thing (from which I’ve drawn these quotes) is found in Gary Arce’s Defying Gravity, pages 89-92. Check it out.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Thanks Don.
You prove again that it is always better to let climbers write about climbing.
Warren and I had some good times and some less so, but he will always be a hero.
I only had a little contact with Royal but the same goes for him.
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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The writer has little to contribute. And does so very well.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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I don't or didn't mean to disparage Daniel Duane's writing. I've bought and read two of his books, both about climbing, and gotten another from the library. I'm pretty sure he's an OK dude, from what I've found.
He's been a climber for decades and knows the ropes. Technical parts of his books hold water.
I'm not here to criticize his style, however, as sycorax has. The points he made were valid, to be sure.
In the final analysis, everyone has editorial problems until they find a good one. That's who should shoulder blame if blame is to be dished out--the editor of the piece.
Don, gr-r-reat input, have a nice day.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Media loves spectacle and controversy. NYT is no exception.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Intersting and really cool to hear the feelings of folks who were there at the time. From someone who only knows of these things by what I have read the rivalry angle is nothing new. Read about that more than once. like it or not if you are going to chop someones rout you will be remembered for that deed and yes it will quite possibly overshadow many of your accomplishments.. Not saying that it is right or wrong just that it is what it is... The rivalry has been written about enough that to someone who was not there at the time perhaps it has become fact...
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WBraun
climber
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As our sport becomes more institutionalized
Definitely institutionalized, st00pid fuking brainwashed robots masquerading themselves as human beings .....
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dee ee
Mountain climber
Of THIS World (Planet Earth)
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Clearly Daniel Duane didn't do either man justice but I still admire and love both of them.
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DanaB
climber
CT
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Media loves spectacle and controversy.
So do readers. And climbers.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Media loves spectacle and controversy.
So do readers
And . . . . . . that's why media loves spectacle and controversy!
See, that wasn't so hard.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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The Times published two different pieces about Mr. Robbins at the time of his death and now a third at the end of 2017, so maybe regular readers do in fact have a full picture.
I know Dan casually and he is a good guy and legit climber. I think this piece missed the mark somewhat but maybe it made a better impression on non climbers.
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nah000
climber
now/here
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great thread. [thanks]
as per the article?
seemed to me to be structurally based myth making intended for the greater stage...
with ultimately nothing more nor nothing less to offer.
and so equal parts trite in its content and boring in its necessity.
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DanaB
climber
CT
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**And . . . . . . that's why media loves spectacle and controversy!
See, that wasn't so hard.**
Changing the rules in the middle of a game, John?
By the way, if you ever do identify this media that you mention, please let us know.
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Tamara Robbins
climber
not a climber, just related...
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Foremost, appreciation to NYT for including Dad in an "important" issue, and the respect inherently given by doing so.
Next, a disclaimer that I have not yet read every post in this thread. Thus said, am both chuckling and in agreement overall. Those who are my "friends" on facebook may have read my brief intro to posting the latest NYT link.
My impression of Duane is that he has done a respectable quantity of writing about Yosemite climbing, but beyond that we are not familiar. The focus on the Harding/Robbins (mythological) "war" is exaggerated, but perhaps something that non-climbers can grasp and be interested in (as with Valley Uprising).
For the wonderful sense of humor generally exhibited in this forum, I will share that the "fact checker" for the NYT called prior to publication. The article, had we not spoken, would have also stated that "when not climbing, Royal enjoyed reading R.W. Emerson and taking ballroom dancing classes...."
Those who don't instantly grasp the humor therein will likely be advised by those who do....
Cheers all ;)
PS a correlation between Chuck Berry and RR's "blue suede shoes" would have been pretty epic....
PPS Lauria's input is obviously as close to reality as one can get, having shared in the experience. The quotations of Dad's that Don cited are accurate, and indicative of RR's perspective about that matter - and the overall consideration he took in approaching (pun intended) everything in life.
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