Wages..

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 241 - 260 of total 581 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jan 4, 2018 - 12:40am PT
California Teachers association president was making $229,000 per year in 2009. But that number has gone up from what Ive heard....
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 4, 2018 - 05:38am PT
Dave:
You spent a day watching dock workers work? How cute.

I worked at the port of Long Beach. It wasn't cute. It was a very interesting place. You have no idea how the docks work, yet you seem to have made up your mind that the longshoremen aren't worth their pay.

Ken M:
Now union EXECUTIVES.....

I can only speak for the baker's union, but corporate executives make a whole lot more than the international union president.

But people would rather see those that pillage the economy rake in obscene amounts of money than see those that create the economy get their fair share.

It's quite strange. Why do so many Americans, including American workers, despise American workers so much?

chainsaw:
California Teachers association president was making $229,000 per year in 2009. But that number has gone up from what Ive heard....

The typical CEO at the biggest U.S. companies got an 8.5% raise last year, raking in $11.5 million in salary, stock and other compensation last year, according to a study by executive data firm Equilar for The Associated Press. Thatís the biggest raise in three years.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/05/23/ceo-pay-highest-paid-chief-executive-officers-2016/339079001/
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Jan 4, 2018 - 09:47am PT
scumbags celebrating the sabotage of their economy
That was funny. They went there with the story already in mind and it looks to me that they failed to find it.

I clicked through quickly and noted a complete lack of carbon fiber. I would estimate those boats value in the range of $5-20k, hardly what the elite anywhere are riding in - running on 1 cent per liter of gas...

Love the comment about the expense and lack of availability of drinking water - so they're drinking wheat bear instead- with no bathrooms. Sign me up. Bunch of 3rd world savages. Latin America is giant hell hole only a small step ahead of Africa.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jan 4, 2018 - 10:10am PT
But people would rather see those that pillage the economy rake in obscene amounts of money than see those that create the economy get their fair share.

It's quite strange. Why do so many Americans, including American workers, despise American workers so much?

It's bizarre I agree and is most certainly rooted in jealousy.

Attacking unions these days is the same as attacking the Wheel Wrights Collective.

However, as I previously mentioned, if the trade unions aren't earning their dues by preparing and positioning their members for the coming wave of automation, they will of course cease to exist entirely in the next decade or so.

Keep up or die.

DMT
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 4, 2018 - 11:54am PT
Certainly society should be training people for the changes to come, but again, we'd rather finance the money pit called the Pentagon than spend it on education.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jan 4, 2018 - 12:14pm PT
we'd rather finance the money pit called the Pentagon than spend it on education.
That may be, but who spends more on education than the US, and how does that work out for us?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-education-spending-tops-global-list-study-shows/

Besides, who knows what the jobs will be in 20 years? And the skills necessary in the tech sector may not be what we think.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/12/20/the-surprising-thing-google-learned-about-its-employees-and-what-it-means-for-todays-students/?utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=bufferde853&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=.5
T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Jan 4, 2018 - 12:18pm PT
^^^
Don't forget the Prison Pit;

Yearly cost to incarcerate an inmate in California

It costs an average of about $71,000 per year to incarcerate an inmate in prison in California. Over three-quarters of these costs are for security and inmate health care. Since 2010-11, the average annual cost has increased by about $22,000 or about 45 percent.

Yearly cost per student K-12 education in USA;

Total expenditures for public elementary and secondary schools in the United States amounted to $12,296 per public school student enrolled in the fall (in constant 2014 15 dollars, based on the Consumer Price Index).

Stoopid Americans!
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Jan 4, 2018 - 12:24pm PT
California Teachers association president was making $229,000 per year in 2009

The lowest-paid CEO in the Silicon Valley in the crummiest little low-life start-em-up makes at least $280K per annum. And a PLM (product line manager) at Google, Amazon or HP makes $495K per annum plus perks. Now if you're talking about a VP at a Fortune 500 company, you're moving into a whole other league of robber baron paychecks. I've been on floors of buildings where nobody in the room would even fart for less than a dollar-and-a-quarter per hour.

Union executives are small fry in the rape and pillage salaries industry. I think the outrage is just because the lower level employee is so well insulated from what's going on in the tiers above him/her while he's trying to scrape by on less. That's where political resentments grow on trees.

It's all relative to how high up the feeding chain you're situated.
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Jan 4, 2018 - 12:29pm PT
Of concern for students and parents should be the wages for executives in the UC/CSU system. This is getting out of control. Deans at the UC system have a floor salary of $165K and--get this--a ceiling of $580K! Over half a million bucks + massive bennies no doubt for a dean at a UC. And the administrative ranks are growing like cancer. Check out this table re. UC:

Credit: Bad Climber

The chancellor of my old district was pulling in about $300K + bennies. Sorry, it's a tough job, but it ain't THAT tough. The argument is that schools must pay that much to compete with the private sector--as if most of these folks could just throw out a resume and start making that kind of money. I call BS.

BAd
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jan 4, 2018 - 01:06pm PT
Certainly society should be training people for the changes to come, but again, we'd rather finance the money pit called the Pentagon than spend it on education.

In terms of union usefulness and function, forget about society and our collective obligation to train and the obsession over American War Machine Politics. If our society did train people adequately through public resources we wouldn't have ever needed trade unions to begin with.

We tend to think of collective bargaining as the summation of union purpose and certainly that is important.

But in an ever-increasingly world of automation and change, the union worker must validate her worth, or that collective bargaining agreement isn't worth the paper it wasn't printed on.

A frequent discussion is the value of a college education. Many are choosing to forgo superfluous educational papers in, for example, the humanities, and are instead seeking to monetize their training more directly. Votec, looked down upon for much of my own life, is re-surging. It is here, directly, where unions should be pushing hard to distinguish their members and ADD VALUE. Instead of mafia-induced rip off schemes of old, trade unions should be partnering with municipalities and corporations and serving as the glue to revitalize rust belt and other disadvantaged communities, through specialization.

I think Germany stands head and shoulders above other countries in adopting this approach. And unions in particular, imo, should be actively recruiting these partnerships and then training up the members to fulfill the labor needed to pull it off. Everyone wins this way.

So the gap in education caused by the deficiencies in the public edu resources in America become the stepping stone by which trade unions can re-surge along with heartland business in general.

DMT
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 4, 2018 - 01:10pm PT
Can't disagree with anything you wrote. If the nation won't do it, then workers, rather than they are union slugs, management drones or small business men need to do it.

Yet, something has to band all these people together.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jan 4, 2018 - 01:14pm PT

Yet, something has to band all these people together.

Yep. And I am suggesting the union leaders should be at the forefront of this given this wave of automation and change we all know is coming, instead of sitting back and waiting for the pink slips.

Pick a town, pick an industry and specialization, then go recruit the town and the businesses and build the partnership by providing incentives for both town and business and labor to partner, collectively. Wins all around and union leadership gets to actually lead.

Cheers
DMT
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Jan 4, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
And a PLM (product line manager) at Google, Amazon or HP makes $495K per annum plus perks.
No...

Salary.com is pretty good, used by HR at our Fortune 500 company, and many others.

In a campus of 1-2k at the largest of companies, less than single handful will be getting that kind of money, and even then it will be after bonus time. If they're not earning it - poof - they'll be shown the door.

Supply and demand applies to all the levels. Supply exceeds demand more at the lower levels.

The reality is the little guys enjoy being jealous and pissed off, so a fantasy is created to feed it. Foxnews.com.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jan 4, 2018 - 02:19pm PT
Certainly society should be training people for the changes to come, but again, we'd rather finance the money pit called the Pentagon than spend it on education.

You mean Education Inc.? Let's face it, higher ed has become less about education and more about $$$$ and ribbon-cutting ceremonies going on 30-plus years now. You seen those state salaries?

And, frankly, despite my pro-public sector position on unions, I would love nothing more than to see K-12 teacher's unions busted, broken, demolished, turned to dust--and $100k for 180 day's work teachers forced to reapply for their jobs after demonstrating they have a friggin clue. Many do. But far too many don't.

Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Jan 4, 2018 - 03:31pm PT
Lituya:

Lots to be unhappy about with our edu-system, but the wages you speak of only happen at the upper end of the college/university scale, a real minority of teachers.

This average teacher salary map from the Washington Post:

Credit: Bad Climber

Just a little reality check.

BAd
xCon

Social climber
909
Jan 4, 2018 - 04:02pm PT
wonder why it always serves to private sectors interest in getting the best person for the job to increase a positions salary but not in the public sector?
Dave

Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
Jan 4, 2018 - 05:52pm PT
"I worked at the port of Long Beach. It wasn't cute. It was a very interesting place. You have no idea how the docks work, yet you seem to have made up your mind that the longshoremen aren't worth their pay."

Who said I had no idea how docks work, and who said I had made up my mind about longshoreman and their pay?

Anyone who does real work deserves real pay.

I spent 2 years in coal mines and have worked 12 years now in a metal mine, all underground. Most guys (and gals) I work with make good money and do fine work - nonunion, thank the lord.

Not too many places left where someone with a GED and a prison record can make 6 figures, but many of the places I've worked you still can.
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Jan 4, 2018 - 08:37pm PT
@xCon:

Good question, although a multitude of examples abound of very highly paid private sector CEO's who almost ruined their companies and retired with obscene severance packages. A lot of weird shiz out there. The problem with the public sector is that it's other people's money. There is generally no tax payers' representative at the negotiating table. I simply find it impossible to imagine, for example, that my previous district couldn't find a very capable executive to do the chancelor's job for, I don't know, $200K + bennies? We all know, too, that American executives tend to be way overpaid, too, at least in comparing them to almost every other developed country.

BAd
xCon

Social climber
909
Jan 4, 2018 - 09:03pm PT
my comment was more targeted at the vitriol direct against teachers by the conservatives who want us to believe they actually want a good job done while their remedy flies in the face of the sound business practices they would have us believe they support
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jan 4, 2018 - 10:56pm PT
Just a little reality check.

Bad, you've either, a.) never worked in K-12 and are uninformed; or, b.) are a teacher's union member and deliberately misinforming.

The map you posted is based on state pay only and excludes district, tri, board cert., benefits like insurance coverage, and a taxpayer-funded pension that no one in the private sector has.

In any event, get rid of the teacher's union and pay a good teacher what they're worth--far more than $100k. Especially a good STEM educator. Pay the adequate ones what they're worth--far, far less. Fire the rest.

There is generally no tax payers' representative at the negotiating table.

And if this isn't bad enough, most liberal states--like the one I live in--have a Democrat Governor, Democrat Legislature, and partisan Supreme Court that are bought and paid for by the teacher's union. The sky is the limit--just raise taxes on the janitor, carpenter, sales rep,coal miner, and grandma's house! It's "for the kids" don't ya know? :rolleyes:
Messages 241 - 260 of total 581 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Trip Report and Articles
Recent Route Beta