Discussion Topic |
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FreeCoffee
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 4, 2017 - 07:39am PT
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1) White Rasta -climber fell off the top move and yes hit the boulder. Resulted in an open tib/fib fracture. Interestingly enough same climber had sent on lead Hot Rocks earlier in the day. Said he's going to keep to climbing on ropes from now on. (Friday 12/1)
2) Lost Horse Wall - female climber fell near the top of The Swift at sunset. Ended up near where Dappled Mare and Bird on a Wire merge. Some gear may have pulled. Injuries unclear. JOSAR was staged and ready, but due to the extent of the injuries and the time of day, California Highway Patrol lowered a paramedic to the patient, then extracted them both. (Sat 12/2)
Big thanks to all the bystanders who helped out on both of these rescues.
The Emergency Phone at Intersection Rock was used to call for help during both these incidents. Next time you are in the park, find it, and show your friends. Cell phone service is unreliable
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Whoa. Sounds like folks are going to recover. Be careful out there, kids.
Yikes.
BAd
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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3) Climber Coffee participant fell over boulder next to table, knocking over info billboard, and spilling coffee all over boulder and himself.
Victim never lost grip of coffee mug, and did not appear to sustain any physical injuries.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Probably good to know what service works and where to get optimal signal.
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FreeCoffee
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 4, 2017 - 08:55am PT
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Emergency Phone is a satellite phone and can take 30 seconds to connect to dispatch. Dispatch Center services all of San Bernardino County - so it is best to have lots of details about where you are and extent of injury if known. They are a more direct link than calling 911. Also, it is a good idea to stage someone at the phone post phonecall to direct emergency traffic to the correct location.
And yes, what Zip described did actually happen at Climber Coffee on Sunday :)
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Bummer. I'm surprised there aren't more injuries on White Rastafarian though. It's tall, there's a rock below and the top out can be sketchy if you're not used to climbing outside much.
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rincon
climber
Coarsegold
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Yup. That guy got to experience the consequences of falling off the top of that thing the way nature intended!
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Mr_T
Trad climber
Northern California
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Is the following for real?
1) There is a boulder in the desert with a moderate problem, that folks really like to climb up (White Rasta).
2) There was a rock at the bottom that someone could have fallen onto.
3) A group of people moved the rock at the base so that someone wouldn't fall onto it.
4) Some other group of people moved the rock back to under at the base knowing that it would increase the chance of injury.
5) A person just fell onto the rock at the base, resulting serious injuries.
And if so, is it really the case that the location of a rock in the desert is more important than the a 20-something male with a life-altering injury?
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cavemonkey
Ice climber
ak
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Hmmmmm
Don't know how I feel about this. Remember hearing about the boulder being moved back, and at the time I thought "Good for them!". Now it seems almost malacious.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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You're a climber going up on a highball and see that there's a boulder beneath it. You either 1) sack up and go for it, assuming the consequences of screwing up, or 2) decide that you'd rather not risk it and do something else. Sounds like our poor injured friend decided on the latter. His choice, not yours'.
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Mr_T
Trad climber
Northern California
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What really irritates me here is that this concerns a boulder problem that is absurdly far from the edge of the sport. It's a V3. It may have been cutting edge in 1963, but a far cry by today's standards. The forefront of today is what, V15/5.15? People do V10+ high balls out in Bishop all the time.
There seems to be some members of the community that can't handle a few people enjoying a fun, beginner boulder problem on a sunny afternoon. They have been eclipsed by later generations and they just cannot deal.
And yes, it does affect all of us as JOSAR probably spent a few thousand tax dollars to deal with the mess. It impacts all of us.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Exactly...Mr_T
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Precisely Mr._T
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Egads... . I don't think I've ever seen Mr. T get " irritated" .
Bummer about the accidents. Wishing both a speedy recovery.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Has anyone here ever moved a rock from below a boulder problem you were going to do? I know that I have. As Mr_T pointed out, V2/3 is no longer cutting edge, it’s recreational. So some people moved the boulder (objective hazard) from beneath a recreational boulder. Kind of like avalanche control at a recreational ski area.
If it were a cutting edge problem with few ascents due to the presence of the boulder there could be a good argument for leaving it.
I suppose it was “cutting edge” for the people that took the time to put it back.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Never too soon. Oh, and by the way, there was sh#t on top of the boulder. Those names may be harder to come by.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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I'm a little rusty on modern bouldering, but I thought a pad pile was the cutting edge for sanitizing landings.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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As Mr_T pointed out, V2/3 is no longer cutting edge, it’s recreational
So by that standard I suppose Bacher Yerian is "recreational" too, as the rating is only a smidge harder. So time to add the bolts, we don't want all those beginners getting injured.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Mister T: +1
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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I think the railing should be re-installed under The Thimble. It's too safe now.
BAd
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Yikes the Thimble! That guardrail was climbing's guillotine. Quite an accomplishment for JG. The guardrail had Wunsch and me running back to the car for a top rope.
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Matt's
climber
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i haven't done white rastafarian-- can't you use pads to protect the landing?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Moving the rock back seems like a dick move, but that doesn't change the fact the moment you leave the ground - for any reason and under any circumstance - it's entirely on you.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Stunning that someone was mean spirited enough to purposfully put a rock in the landing zone obviously with the intention to make it more dangerous.
It's Trumps amerika......
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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I wonder if they moved the rock back exactly where it was, or moved it to a more dangerous location just to be ornery.
I believe I convinced myself that the rock wasn't really in the landing zone from the top when I did it, but I'm not a local and maybe I'm mistaken.
(I'm not sure about how I feel about moving the rock in the first place, but I certainly wouldn't have made any effort to move it back once it had been moved, and it's sort of a strange character who would do that--a bit like old school bolt wars I suppose.)
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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So if it was harder, it would be okay for people to get hurt on it?
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Well at least he broke his leg doing what he loves. . . . . . .
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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one of my sport climbing friends broke his leg on a fishing trip to the Bahammas just so that he would not have to go ice climbing with me.....
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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saw the backbreaker boulder, heard it was moved.
ieither dude and possé shoulda paddmattressed the landing or moved the rock. or just not fallen.
still, the bad little suitcase of rock might do well to go f*#k off. the place gets enough traffic for me to kick a cholla in chacos with no repercussion. move the boulder, maybe put up one of them fakerocks
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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I think the railing should be re-installed under The Thimble. It's too safe now
If someone had removed that nasty thing back then I would have been happy.
It's hard for me to fathom replacing the rock under WR when it had been removed for safety. That's just plain sick.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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I heard (seriously) that The Man, them thugdad green and gray National Parkinglot Service-ers, they replaced it.
and someone chose to dabble with fate over it.
in our country, we and they outta sue the sh#t outta people for protecting history. what I heard Smokey the Bear say was: Bachar didn't need to move the boulder, sucker.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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I haven't laughed that hard yet today ;-)
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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+1 with Healyje
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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For the record, I wasn't advocating for reinstalling the rock. I was simply suggesting that you boulder it as you find it. I am not saying that the same argument should apply to death flakes on popular routes, etc. I've had my knee rebuilt twice. I look at some tall problems and, as beautiful as some are, for me, having done the crutches thing and rehab more than once, they're not worth the risk. Sending my best thoughts to the injured for a speedy recovery.
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gruzzy
Social climber
socal
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Lucky it wasnt a head injury.
Why would some self righteous fool put a hazardous boulder back under a problem of any grade. Im sure many landings have been cleared over the years. Wow. If this is true that is sad,sad,sad
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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I recollect Claude Cooper.
He was a clumsy climber but a clean one.
He cleverly clawed his way to the climax.
--Clandestine
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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In the thread a few years ago, when it was moved, it was almost unanimous that moving the brain basher was BS.
To me the real story is/
Sent Hot Rocks but blew the top out on White Rasta.
Weird.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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I noted this post on the other thread:
Not reading all this bs, because it is beyond stupid.
I've hucked many laps on that thing. Pad, no pad. Fallen off the top once too. This is all beyond stupid because YOU WILL NOT HIT THE ROCK if you fall off!
I've taken the fall, I've seen at least 50 people take the fall. Not a single damn one of them hit the rock. Stories of broken legs/ankles, afaik, involved hitting the ground, usually padless, not hitting that little rock. 99% of the time, a fall from the business lands you immediately in front of it. Yeah, a tad close, and yeah you thought about it when up there, but no real hazard.
Stupid.
Seems crazy,but I do believe it's at least worth considering if they moved the boulder to a more dangerous location than it originally was (I also noted a post where someone who supported moving the boulder back seemed to acknowledge that it wasn't possible to determine exactly where it was originally).
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Why does JT lend itself so well to tempests in a teapot? Double Cross comes to mind.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Golf Rule #13 - Improving Lie
PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE:
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.
When I was 9 years old (1969) we took a road trip from Houston to Arizona in our new 67 Impala two door. We walked up Sunset Crater and on the way down we met a ranger carrying a rock. My father asked him what he was doing. The ranger said someone carried the rock down from the top, and apparently it was different than rocks at the bottom.
We were not much of an outdoor family, but for some reason that had a profound effect on me, I learned LNT that day. Thanks to the NPS professionals who set the example. As for the tools, they are just another obstacle to be moved.
Leave the rock where it is, there are plenty of sanitized V3s.
Why does JT lend itself so well to tempests in a teapot? Double Cross comes to mind.
Think rats in a crowded cage
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Thanks, FreeCoffee for the info. . .
(and if I'd have been there to enjoy it, the coffee too)!
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Worth noting that WR is no longer rated v3?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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And if so, is it really the case that the location of a rock in the desert is more important than the a 20-something male with a life-altering injury?
You're gonna have to move a lot of boulders.
A huge boulder will create a crater, an eyesore in a pristine desert.
Many climbers aspire to climb the line as it is - the landing is part of the experience. Just like with hundreds of other boulder problems.
Some climbers will see the idea of manufacturing the base of a route and take it too far - remember the yucca at the base of the Chube? that's gone.
Older generations may not think much of bouldering, but just as a 30 foot tall climb should be left as is so should a 15 foot climb. No cutting down trees, no trimming shrubs, no moving boulders or building landings. Climb in the desert or leave. Guarantee you the boulderer who fell knew what he was getting into and takes responsibilities for his own actions, as we all do. He had one pad and one spotter, pretty ballsy for a route of that height.
I think the railing should be re-installed under The Thimble. It's too safe now.
Well that thing is man-made, isn't it?
There's a boulder at the base of Hero roof lets move that. Also the landing for yabba dabba don't is badly slanted, should we move the sand around and flatten that out? It's not like it's a national park...
Be careful in the park, if you see a rescue and you are free and have some training see if a hand is needed for a carry out or maybe retrieve gear for the climbers. We can take some workload off of JOSAR.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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What would the landscape look like if you rolled this puppy away?
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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^^^ Another super thoughtful post.
Personally, I didn’t care for the tone.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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I, and many hundreds of others have climbed this problem with the same risk of injury - it's your choice to take that gamble
Absolutely. Just don't come back to the climbing community and ask for donations for surgeries and rehabilitation. That's part of the "risk" one assumes.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Carry decent health insurance. That should be part of the community norm, if indeed it encourages needless risk-taking. Take responsibility for your actions. Don't go out willy-nilly and all excited to do a dangerous highball without thinking it through.
Here's a personal (rather extreme) example: when I drove from Atlanta out to Colorado in August of 1954 to experience real mountains, Dad and I talked it over and made sure I had burial insurance!
;>)
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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It looks as if rfshore edited his post a bit to change the “tone”.
Yeah, coming in and telling Mr T he needs to get “learned up” before chiming in wasn’t the most tactful was to start what was otherwise a decent post.
Still, when you start bringing up gym climbers, idiot pro climbers, instatweetbook, and always doing things democratically, I just kinda roll my eyes.
I still can’t believe the dude crushed Hot Rocks and blew the top out on WR!
Hope he heals up- open tib fib is gnarly!
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Voluntary contributions are identical to insurance premiums
Well, I don't think so, but whatever . . .
The idea of the community underwriting possible injuries should perhaps be firmed up with climbers donating to the fund on a regular basis. Doesn't the American Alpine Club to something like this?
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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rfshore- it looks to me like you’re the one doing the name calling.
Just saying.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Going on 81 I suppose I'm just too old to understand the injury issue. Certainly, volunteering donations to help cover medical expenses above and beyond what decent health insurance pays is a good and worthy thing to do. But it just seems climbers should take some responsibility for their actions.
Is there anyone on this thread who agrees with me?
Sorry for the thread drift.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Looks like you can toss a pad or two over that thing, easy peasy, happens everywhere all the time.
Boulders - they're often found in clusters.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Lesson learned, destroy the footstool boulder next time. Then Dick can volunteer to glue the little pieces back together.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sorry john but the health care system in this country is a fcking embaressment. even with expensive coverage any real sickness or injury will put you out on the street. If we don't help each other out in time of need WTF good are we?
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hellroaring
Trad climber
San Francisco
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When a road gets built through a national park that's altering and impacting the landscape in a BIG way. What about all the dynamiting to built parts of the JMT in the Sierra? I guess I can understand why NPS would be not like the public to alter and move. However, it does seem silly and over the top to move the thing back once it was in a new location. Just my worthless 2 cents. Hope the injured climber recovers as close to 100% as they can
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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He's Australian probably has decent insurance
Hot rocks is way more manageable for me, short lil crux and I won't hit the ground ass over tea kettle. WR is scary
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Sorry john but the health care system in this country is a fcking embaressment. even with expensive coverage any real sickness or injury will put you out on the street. If we don't help each other out in time of need WTF good are we?
So, are you suggesting climbers avoid health insurance and, instead, rely on community assistance? My point is simply that climbers make an effort to insure themselves first, then donations kick in. The Obama mandate?
Interesting opinions about boulders and risk. Thanks.
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ExfifteenExfifteen
climber
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Sorry john but the health care system in this country is a fcking embaressment. even with expensive coverage any real sickness or injury will put you out on the street. If we don't help each other out in time of need WTF good are we?
That's way over-generized for sure. Someone very close to me, who has a good job with good insurance was hospitalized for 12 weeks, had half a dozen surgeries, spent 4 weeks in assisted living and 4 weeks with a live in nurse at home. A year later they are still living in their house and are doing just fine.
Maybe, the choices we make in life have serious consequences...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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No John. I am stateing rather clearly that even with the insurance our health care system sucks and that everyone regardless of weather they are climbers or not should help their friends and family when they get sick or hurt. I have insurance but certainly can't afford to get sick or hurt. It costs a lot and does not cover a whole lot. Not to worry. your social security and medicare is on the chopping block next. you might not be so cocky on this subject down the road a bit.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Ex15. I have good friends who had good jobs, teacher and school buss driver. Both have cancer. The teacher lost her job, buss driver had to go to work with a colostomy bag. they are on the verge of loseing their house. Not everyone is a rich f*#k.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Just don't come back to the climbing community and ask for donations for surgeries and rehabilitation. That's part of the "risk" one assumes.
Amen brother.
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little Z
Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
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how much did they spend moving intersection rock to the other side of the highway?
4) Super Topo reader snorted coffee all over computer and himself because of funniest comebacker on thread.
Victim never lost grip of coffee mug, and did not appear to sustain any physical injuries.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Worth noting that WR is no longer rated v3?
Nor should it have ever been.
Curt
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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V2? that is a woodson 5.7
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WBraun
climber
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So someone moved the rock danger at the base, BFD.
OMG !!!! the nature of the problem is now changed.
There's no more danger that you might hit that rock with your st00pid head and end up in a wheelchair for life anymore.
OMG!!!! we must preserve all this st00pid sh!t ...... rolls eyes
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gruzzy
Social climber
socal
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It's pretty easy to get a health plan. I don't know why one would participate in a hazardous sport without it. Get a high deductible, it will provide some peace of mind.
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Byran
climber
Half Dome Village
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It's pretty easy to get a health plan. I don't know why one would participate in a hazardous sport without it. Get a high deductible, it will provide some peace of mind. Why would having a health plan with a high deductible provide you with peace of mind??!!
Doesn't it defeat the whole point of having health insurance if you can't afford to ever use it?
But I think what you meant is that it's pretty easy to get a health plan if you have lots of money. And that having a health plan, along with lots of money, will provide some peace of mind. And that's certainly true.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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in 102 posts this thread has traversed from the initial accident report to moving a boulder to the sacred national parks to liability to what seems to be gang member images to injuries to health care to paying for health care and I probably missed something. Nice.
I can always find something interesting to distract me from work on the Taco. Keep up the good work.
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ExfifteenExfifteen
climber
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Ex15. I have good friends who had good jobs, teacher and school buss driver. Both have cancer. The teacher lost her job, buss driver had to go to work with a colostomy bag. they are on the verge of loseing their house. Not everyone is a rich f*#k.
tradmanclimbs, Sorry to hear that. Never good to lose a job when there is a mortgage to pay.
I have a teacher friend who has cancer. She just returned to work after being out for over a year. Husband is a stay at home dad. She is not a rich f*#k like me, and they are not on the verge of losing their home. All I'm saying is you're just an over-generalizing dck f*#k...
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Moosehead is $4.49/six-pack here. Molson's $3.99. What's it go for in Canada?
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Ooooooh, Chaz. Don't get me started on Canadian beer prices. It's bad enough to make one stay out of the country. Cali wine wasn't too bad when we were there in 2012.
Ques: Do the stratospheric beer prices energize a serious home brewing culture in Canada? I'd be all over it at those prices.
BAd
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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One of my favorite paces to eat is a joint right on the Canadian border in Blaine called Big Al's Diner.
Right across the street - right on the border practically - is a little convenience store with a 75' sign you can see from Canada advertising their "deals".
Budweiser $18.95/12-pack
Butter $6/lb
Eggs $4.49/dozen
Anywhere else, except maybe Alaska, you'd keep prices that high a secret.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Well at least we have the death penalty if you’re black or chicano and have a public defender.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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*you’re
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Yes I get it. I am a terrible person for advocateing helping people out when they are sick or injured.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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you are an enabler tradman, got to dish out some tough love so that these poor people quit spending all their money on Top Ramen and buy health insurance.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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How many of you tough guys have ever given a homeless person a cheese burger or a blanket?
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Wait, I thought they were wasting their money on booze, movies, and women?
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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How bout giving to a gofundme for someone’s dog Tradman???
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gruzzy
Social climber
socal
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1300 is considered a high deductible. That should provide a lot of peace.
But, if you're a big risk taker, go for the no insurance option, then beg strangers for the money for medical bills
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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I have a major soft spot for Gofundmes.
Injured climbers, dogs, hurtin’ wooks, you name it.
Not everyone is rollin’ as hard as me so I try to help out where I can.
Check this one (campaign expired)
https://www.gofundme.com/super-out-of-weed
"Hey doods before you judge me let me tell my story. My so called "friends" came over last night to have a massage party and sesh. They showed up and would not stop asking me for phat bowls of my kush. I ended up sharing all my weed with my so called "fam". I am now %100 completely out of herbskies. As sad as this may sound I was so hurting I almost smoked a heaping bowl of resin this morning. If you couldfind it in your hearts to donate even a cent to my cause, it would be beyond appreciated. I am seriously jonesing for a smoke. Thank you all for listening to my story and possiblty donating towards my dub. For real thanks. Much love fam. #love and light #blessed
Help spread the word!"
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Out of herbskies! Sending you mo' scratch brosephus!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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You gotta respect the gofundme folks who sit at cold, noisy intersections with cardboard hand written appeals while absorbing the stinkeye from passing motorists. The internet ones, i’m not so sure about.
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| Messages 1 - 89 of total 89 in this topic |
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