2 Climber Falls in JT this weekend

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 1 - 124 of total 124 in this topic
FreeCoffee

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 4, 2017 - 07:39am PT
1) White Rasta -climber fell off the top move and yes hit the boulder. Resulted in an open tib/fib fracture. Interestingly enough same climber had sent on lead Hot Rocks earlier in the day. Said he's going to keep to climbing on ropes from now on. (Friday 12/1)

2) Lost Horse Wall - female climber fell near the top of The Swift at sunset. Ended up near where Dappled Mare and Bird on a Wire merge. Some gear may have pulled. Injuries unclear. JOSAR was staged and ready, but due to the extent of the injuries and the time of day, California Highway Patrol lowered a paramedic to the patient, then extracted them both. (Sat 12/2)

Big thanks to all the bystanders who helped out on both of these rescues.

The Emergency Phone at Intersection Rock was used to call for help during both these incidents. Next time you are in the park, find it, and show your friends. Cell phone service is unreliable
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Dec 4, 2017 - 07:49am PT
Whoa. Sounds like folks are going to recover. Be careful out there, kids.

Yikes.

BAd
zip

Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
Dec 4, 2017 - 08:04am PT
3) Climber Coffee participant fell over boulder next to table, knocking over info billboard, and spilling coffee all over boulder and himself.
Victim never lost grip of coffee mug, and did not appear to sustain any physical injuries.
Ojai Alex

Trad climber
Ojai, CA
Dec 4, 2017 - 08:06am PT
The phone takes longer than you’d think too. Despite being an ‘Emergency Phone’, it does not connect you to emergency services. It connects you with the rangers office.

So when you launch into your description of the situation and start talking about ‘my patient is A+O times 3 after a brief loss of consciousness’ they’ll have no idea what you’re talking about.

Response time seems to be about 30 minutes, after the rangers finally transfer you to EMS. Something to keep in mind.

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Dec 4, 2017 - 08:25am PT
Probably good to know what service works and where to get optimal signal.
xCon

Social climber
909
Dec 4, 2017 - 08:29am PT
someone really aught to drag that rock back a ways...
FreeCoffee

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 4, 2017 - 08:55am PT
Emergency Phone is a satellite phone and can take 30 seconds to connect to dispatch. Dispatch Center services all of San Bernardino County - so it is best to have lots of details about where you are and extent of injury if known. They are a more direct link than calling 911. Also, it is a good idea to stage someone at the phone post phonecall to direct emergency traffic to the correct location.

And yes, what Zip described did actually happen at Climber Coffee on Sunday :)
Ojai Alex

Trad climber
Ojai, CA
Dec 4, 2017 - 09:11am PT
I’m sure you’re correct, but when I used the phone in an actual incident, the person on the other side (county dispatch apparently) was not versed in the lingo. I had to start all over and explain in plain English the nature of the emergency, etc. I’ve never had to do that with paramedics or SAR.

SAT phone makes sense given the connection time. My main point was that there is plenty of time for someone to die before help arrives. Have medical skills, know CPR.

Anyway, thanks for your hard work keeping climbers and others safe.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Dec 4, 2017 - 10:15am PT
Bummer. I'm surprised there aren't more injuries on White Rastafarian though. It's tall, there's a rock below and the top out can be sketchy if you're not used to climbing outside much.
rincon

climber
Coarsegold
Dec 4, 2017 - 11:22am PT
Yup. That guy got to experience the consequences of falling off the top of that thing the way nature intended!
jeff constine

Trad climber
Ao Namao
Dec 4, 2017 - 11:45am PT
LOL ^^^
Mr_T

Trad climber
Northern California
Dec 4, 2017 - 11:56am PT
Is the following for real?

1) There is a boulder in the desert with a moderate problem, that folks really like to climb up (White Rasta).
2) There was a rock at the bottom that someone could have fallen onto.
3) A group of people moved the rock at the base so that someone wouldn't fall onto it.
4) Some other group of people moved the rock back to under at the base knowing that it would increase the chance of injury.
5) A person just fell onto the rock at the base, resulting serious injuries.

And if so, is it really the case that the location of a rock in the desert is more important than the a 20-something male with a life-altering injury?

xCon

Social climber
909
Dec 4, 2017 - 12:08pm PT
the guy has a good case against those whos "construction of an obvious hazard" by their dragging that rock back under the problem resulted in his being bit...
cavemonkey

Ice climber
ak
Dec 4, 2017 - 12:12pm PT
Hmmmmm
Don't know how I feel about this. Remember hearing about the boulder being moved back, and at the time I thought "Good for them!". Now it seems almost malacious.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Dec 4, 2017 - 12:15pm PT
You're a climber going up on a highball and see that there's a boulder beneath it. You either 1) sack up and go for it, assuming the consequences of screwing up, or 2) decide that you'd rather not risk it and do something else. Sounds like our poor injured friend decided on the latter. His choice, not yours'.
Mr_T

Trad climber
Northern California
Dec 4, 2017 - 12:21pm PT
What really irritates me here is that this concerns a boulder problem that is absurdly far from the edge of the sport. It's a V3. It may have been cutting edge in 1963, but a far cry by today's standards. The forefront of today is what, V15/5.15? People do V10+ high balls out in Bishop all the time.

There seems to be some members of the community that can't handle a few people enjoying a fun, beginner boulder problem on a sunny afternoon. They have been eclipsed by later generations and they just cannot deal.

And yes, it does affect all of us as JOSAR probably spent a few thousand tax dollars to deal with the mess. It impacts all of us.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Dec 4, 2017 - 12:34pm PT
Exactly...Mr_T
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 4, 2017 - 12:37pm PT
Precisely Mr._T
xCon

Social climber
909
Dec 4, 2017 - 12:39pm PT
how much did they spend moving intersection rock to the other side of the highway?
way runout

Boulder climber
Poway
Dec 4, 2017 - 12:41pm PT
I tend to disagree with most of the old cruster mentality and mock it accordingly (because it’s so easy, for starters…)

but because there are SO many routes to climb and SO many boulders to dry hump, all with varied levels of relative safety - I say leave them alone.

Same argument you’re making, Mr_T, apply to the B&Y? Throw a few extra bolts on? There are much harder routes out there. Isn’t V3 like 5.11?

You don’t get to climb this particular V3 if you flail on V3. Likewise, you don’t get to climb the B&Y if you aren’t confident climbing it.
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Dec 4, 2017 - 12:55pm PT
Egads... . I don't think I've ever seen Mr. T get " irritated" .

Bummer about the accidents. Wishing both a speedy recovery.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Dec 4, 2017 - 12:56pm PT
Has anyone here ever moved a rock from below a boulder problem you were going to do? I know that I have. As Mr_T pointed out, V2/3 is no longer cutting edge, it’s recreational. So some people moved the boulder (objective hazard) from beneath a recreational boulder. Kind of like avalanche control at a recreational ski area.
If it were a cutting edge problem with few ascents due to the presence of the boulder there could be a good argument for leaving it.
I suppose it was “cutting edge” for the people that took the time to put it back.
xCon

Social climber
909
Dec 4, 2017 - 12:58pm PT
is it to soon to call for names?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Dec 4, 2017 - 01:02pm PT
Never too soon. Oh, and by the way, there was sh#t on top of the boulder. Those names may be harder to come by.
xCon

Social climber
909
Dec 4, 2017 - 01:03pm PT
I keep telling em to buy the dna test kit

not like they'll only get to use it once...
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Dec 4, 2017 - 01:16pm PT
I'm a little rusty on modern bouldering, but I thought a pad pile was the cutting edge for sanitizing landings.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Dec 4, 2017 - 01:25pm PT
As Mr_T pointed out, V2/3 is no longer cutting edge, it’s recreational

So by that standard I suppose Bacher Yerian is "recreational" too, as the rating is only a smidge harder. So time to add the bolts, we don't want all those beginners getting injured.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Dec 4, 2017 - 02:57pm PT
Mister T: +1
kingtut

climber
Jingus Newroutaineer
Dec 4, 2017 - 03:09pm PT
You're a climber going up on a highball and see that there's a boulder beneath it. You either 1) sack up and go for it, assuming the consequences of screwing up, or 2) decide that you'd rather not risk it and do something else. Sounds like our poor injured friend decided on the latter. His choice, not yours'.

Though we agree on much I don't agree on this one.

Should I leave loose rock on a route because "its your choice to climb it..." even though someone could get killed?

Maybe Bridwell should have left the razor edge on Wheat Thin too?

Every single one of us has trundled loose and moved movable stuff to safer spots...its not like someone is frickin' dynamiting the landing to grade and level it....if it can be moved, its fair game to move, imo. The rest is just silly for the sake of silly.

This is not a "one size fits all" to sanitize "recreational" routes...its a movable objective hazard and not blasphemy against the ghost of Bachar.

And comparing this to the BY is a false comparison. We are talking about movable objective hazard.

My opinion, FWIW.
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Dec 4, 2017 - 04:26pm PT
I think the railing should be re-installed under The Thimble. It's too safe now.

BAd
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Dec 4, 2017 - 04:59pm PT
Yikes the Thimble! That guardrail was climbing's guillotine. Quite an accomplishment for JG. The guardrail had Wunsch and me running back to the car for a top rope.
Matt's

climber
Dec 4, 2017 - 05:06pm PT
i haven't done white rastafarian-- can't you use pads to protect the landing?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 4, 2017 - 05:09pm PT
Moving the rock back seems like a dick move, but that doesn't change the fact the moment you leave the ground - for any reason and under any circumstance - it's entirely on you.
kingtut

climber
Jingus Newroutaineer
Dec 4, 2017 - 05:15pm PT
^^^ that is totally fair...
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 4, 2017 - 05:24pm PT
Stunning that someone was mean spirited enough to purposfully put a rock in the landing zone obviously with the intention to make it more dangerous.
It's Trumps amerika......
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Dec 4, 2017 - 05:26pm PT
I wonder if they moved the rock back exactly where it was, or moved it to a more dangerous location just to be ornery.
I believe I convinced myself that the rock wasn't really in the landing zone from the top when I did it, but I'm not a local and maybe I'm mistaken.
(I'm not sure about how I feel about moving the rock in the first place, but I certainly wouldn't have made any effort to move it back once it had been moved, and it's sort of a strange character who would do that--a bit like old school bolt wars I suppose.)
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 4, 2017 - 06:06pm PT
So if it was harder, it would be okay for people to get hurt on it?
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Dec 4, 2017 - 06:24pm PT
Well at least he broke his leg doing what he loves. . . . . . .
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 4, 2017 - 06:34pm PT
one of my sport climbing friends broke his leg on a fishing trip to the Bahammas just so that he would not have to go ice climbing with me.....
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Dec 4, 2017 - 06:44pm PT
saw the backbreaker boulder, heard it was moved.

ieither dude and possé shoulda paddmattressed the landing or moved the rock. or just not fallen.


still, the bad little suitcase of rock might do well to go f*#k off. the place gets enough traffic for me to kick a cholla in chacos with no repercussion. move the boulder, maybe put up one of them fakerocks
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Dec 4, 2017 - 06:53pm PT
I think the railing should be re-installed under The Thimble. It's too safe now


If someone had removed that nasty thing back then I would have been happy.

It's hard for me to fathom replacing the rock under WR when it had been removed for safety. That's just plain sick.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Dec 4, 2017 - 06:56pm PT
I heard (seriously) that The Man, them thugdad green and gray National Parkinglot Service-ers, they replaced it.

and someone chose to dabble with fate over it.


in our country, we and they outta sue the sh#t outta people for protecting history. what I heard Smokey the Bear say was: Bachar didn't need to move the boulder, sucker.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Dec 4, 2017 - 07:05pm PT
They put the "aw f*#k" back under the boulder? That's F*#king Los Angeles for yas hahahahaha.

I think Claud Cooper moved that rock back under White Rasta.



DMT
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 4, 2017 - 08:09pm PT
I haven't laughed that hard yet today ;-)
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Dec 4, 2017 - 08:26pm PT
+1 with Healyje
kingtut

climber
Jingus Newroutaineer
Dec 4, 2017 - 08:31pm PT
Well, if it was some overly enthusiastic NPS types restoring some herpetepod's original home with a view of honed heinies....I could see that being only ridiculous, rather than irresponsible rationale repairing the riparian rhapsody realizing it was futile.
xCon

Social climber
909
Dec 4, 2017 - 08:41pm PT
put the rock on a hydraulic arm
flip a switch for 10 minutes in "classic" position...
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Dec 4, 2017 - 09:11pm PT
For the record, I wasn't advocating for reinstalling the rock. I was simply suggesting that you boulder it as you find it. I am not saying that the same argument should apply to death flakes on popular routes, etc. I've had my knee rebuilt twice. I look at some tall problems and, as beautiful as some are, for me, having done the crutches thing and rehab more than once, they're not worth the risk. Sending my best thoughts to the injured for a speedy recovery.
gruzzy

Social climber
socal
Dec 4, 2017 - 10:10pm PT
Lucky it wasnt a head injury.
Why would some self righteous fool put a hazardous boulder back under a problem of any grade. Im sure many landings have been cleared over the years. Wow. If this is true that is sad,sad,sad
Climbnrok

Trad climber
LA
Dec 4, 2017 - 10:29pm PT
Always better with links.....

https://joshuatreebouldering.wordpress.com/2014/12/04/white-rastafarians-fall-zone-boulder/

Boulder Moved:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2541347&tn=0&mr=0

Boulder Back:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2541347&tn=85
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Sacramento, CA
Dec 4, 2017 - 10:55pm PT
Was the boulder actually moved and moved back? Sounds like the “bolts” on Doublecross if you axe me, probably a crock of sh#t.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Dec 4, 2017 - 11:23pm PT
I recollect Claude Cooper.
He was a clumsy climber but a clean one.
He cleverly clawed his way to the climax.
--Clandestine
kingtut

climber
Jingus Newroutaineer
Dec 4, 2017 - 11:50pm PT
This is turning into the First World Problems Thread....

Though, gotta admit, boulder is pretty f*#kin' big lol....

I am gonna eat Crow on this one and say that it should stay.

Its not choss, or some loose flake...not even offensive vegetation....(sorry small creatures and your homes....)...its a pretty big part of the desert garden there...

BUT, to wax philosophic about this as some great moral pit of (clearly) millennial depravity (harumpf)....get a grip?

we are talking first world problems here and fiddling while the Planet burns...but I'd like one curmudgeon hero here that has personally experienced an open tib-fib fracture tell us more about their current bravery with high ball bouldering....If you have and still think "its worth it..." get a grip. All climbing is totally "worth it" till someone gets seriously f*#ked up...isn't it?
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Dec 5, 2017 - 12:10am PT
In the thread a few years ago, when it was moved, it was almost unanimous that moving the brain basher was BS.

To me the real story is/
Sent Hot Rocks but blew the top out on White Rasta.
Weird.


Credit: drljefe
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Dec 5, 2017 - 08:15am PT
I noted this post on the other thread:
Not reading all this bs, because it is beyond stupid.

I've hucked many laps on that thing. Pad, no pad. Fallen off the top once too. This is all beyond stupid because YOU WILL NOT HIT THE ROCK if you fall off!

I've taken the fall, I've seen at least 50 people take the fall. Not a single damn one of them hit the rock. Stories of broken legs/ankles, afaik, involved hitting the ground, usually padless, not hitting that little rock. 99% of the time, a fall from the business lands you immediately in front of it. Yeah, a tad close, and yeah you thought about it when up there, but no real hazard.

Stupid.

Seems crazy,but I do believe it's at least worth considering if they moved the boulder to a more dangerous location than it originally was (I also noted a post where someone who supported moving the boulder back seemed to acknowledge that it wasn't possible to determine exactly where it was originally).
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Dec 5, 2017 - 08:25am PT
Why does JT lend itself so well to tempests in a teapot? Double Cross comes to mind.
Jeremy Ross

Gym climber
Dec 5, 2017 - 08:39am PT
Nice shot, jefe.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Dec 5, 2017 - 08:40am PT
Golf Rule #13 - Improving Lie

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE:
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.

When I was 9 years old (1969) we took a road trip from Houston to Arizona in our new 67 Impala two door. We walked up Sunset Crater and on the way down we met a ranger carrying a rock. My father asked him what he was doing. The ranger said someone carried the rock down from the top, and apparently it was different than rocks at the bottom.
We were not much of an outdoor family, but for some reason that had a profound effect on me, I learned LNT that day. Thanks to the NPS professionals who set the example. As for the tools, they are just another obstacle to be moved.

Leave the rock where it is, there are plenty of sanitized V3s.

Why does JT lend itself so well to tempests in a teapot? Double Cross comes to mind.

Think rats in a crowded cage
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Dec 5, 2017 - 09:43am PT

Thanks, FreeCoffee for the info. . .

(and if I'd have been there to enjoy it, the coffee too)!
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Dec 5, 2017 - 10:46am PT
Worth noting that WR is no longer rated v3?
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Dec 5, 2017 - 10:55am PT
And if so, is it really the case that the location of a rock in the desert is more important than the a 20-something male with a life-altering injury?


You're gonna have to move a lot of boulders.

A huge boulder will create a crater, an eyesore in a pristine desert.

Many climbers aspire to climb the line as it is - the landing is part of the experience. Just like with hundreds of other boulder problems.

Some climbers will see the idea of manufacturing the base of a route and take it too far - remember the yucca at the base of the Chube? that's gone.


Older generations may not think much of bouldering, but just as a 30 foot tall climb should be left as is so should a 15 foot climb. No cutting down trees, no trimming shrubs, no moving boulders or building landings. Climb in the desert or leave. Guarantee you the boulderer who fell knew what he was getting into and takes responsibilities for his own actions, as we all do. He had one pad and one spotter, pretty ballsy for a route of that height.

I think the railing should be re-installed under The Thimble. It's too safe now.

Well that thing is man-made, isn't it?

There's a boulder at the base of Hero roof lets move that. Also the landing for yabba dabba don't is badly slanted, should we move the sand around and flatten that out? It's not like it's a national park...



Be careful in the park, if you see a rescue and you are free and have some training see if a hand is needed for a carry out or maybe retrieve gear for the climbers. We can take some workload off of JOSAR.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Dec 5, 2017 - 10:57am PT
Nice post GDavis

DMT
locker

climber
Dec 5, 2017 - 11:00am PT


Fuk!!!...

I agree with DMT...

LOL!!!...

;-)

rfshore

Trad climber
Cali-centric
Dec 5, 2017 - 11:12am PT
There seems to be some members of the community that can't handle a few people enjoying a fun, beginner boulder problem on a sunny afternoon. They have been eclipsed by later generations and they just cannot deal.

You've missed the mark there, Mr_T. It seems like most of the people posting on this thread don't understand the root problem. Are we so self-centered as a group that we think the only reasons the boulder was replaced were for preserving its climbing history and maintaining it's original danger level?

The issue with the boulder being moved in the first place was that the group who did it ALTERED THE LANDSCAPE IN A NATIONAL PARK as they saw fit. This wasn't simply kicking a stone out of the landing zone - this required many strong men and heavy tools to move a few-1000 pound rock, and they crushed a bunch of fragile desert vegetation in the process. It's a bit of a stretch to call that a "movable object hazard" by any reasonable means. The actions of the perpetrators were not approved by the NPS; not conducted under a deal with the Access Fund or FOJT; not done with any type of community discussion or interest in preserving climber-park relations. Doesn't this affect all of us as well?

Back in Donini's day climbers could pull this kind of sh#t without it being noticed. Nowadays everything is practically streaming live online, with idiot pro climbers posting photos of illegal tree-cutting/hold-manufacturing/etc on their InstaTweetBooks. Climbing is HUGE now, and these impacts are constantly being examined under the microscope by the powers-that-be. What's actually more important to you guys - a few tax dollars spent on a rescue or maintaining access to the places we love? Let me reiterate again that this happened in a treasured National Park, not some privately-owned quarry or dump.

The boulder was well documented in its position in photographs spanning almost 5 decades, and as a SUPER popular, easily accessible climb these actions were highly visible to the park service. The NPS made known their position on this type of landscape alteration by requesting that it be moved back to its original location. Under NPS supervision and with the help of volunteers it was restored to where it sat for thousands of years, long before any climbers laid hand on that stone. Many “historians” were on site to ensure its correct positioning, too.

I, and many hundreds of others have climbed this problem with the same risk of injury - it's your choice to take that gamble, but it's not your right to alter the landscape in JTNP. Does everything need to be sanitized for the gym-crowd masses? Anyone can and should feel free to make a request to the NPS to move the boulder away from the climb. They probably won't give a flying-eff until the bodies start piling up at the base. Whatever you decide to do, do it democratically and don't take up actions without considering the potential impacts on your community.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Dec 5, 2017 - 11:15am PT
^^^ Another super thoughtful post.

Thanks for these. As an outsider, its good to gain an insight and get some education on the larger picture.

Cheers
DMT
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Dec 5, 2017 - 11:15am PT



What would the landscape look like if you rolled this puppy away?
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Dec 5, 2017 - 11:36am PT
^^^ Another super thoughtful post.

Personally, I didn’t care for the tone.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Dec 5, 2017 - 11:37am PT
Cheers

DMT
locker

climber
Dec 5, 2017 - 11:39am PT

"What would the landscape look like if you rolled this puppy away?"...


Identical minus the "puppy"???...

Is it a trick question???...

jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Dec 5, 2017 - 11:49am PT
I, and many hundreds of others have climbed this problem with the same risk of injury - it's your choice to take that gamble


Absolutely. Just don't come back to the climbing community and ask for donations for surgeries and rehabilitation. That's part of the "risk" one assumes.
kingtut

climber
Jingus Newroutaineer
Dec 5, 2017 - 11:49am PT
Don't read tone into internet postings.

If is very reasonable to consider the views of the regulatory agency when we alter our "play ground".

Josh has got tons of climber impact, mostly negative (trails and vegetation)....better to not rub people's noses in it that are not predisposed necessarily to see the "worth" of climbing.

ps. @ Ser Gill, I don't think asking your community for voluntary contributions to help with an injury when that same community lauds risk taking should somehow be wrong...? Seems heartless to me, sir. But for the grace of god go you or I.

Community: From the Common Unity.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Dec 5, 2017 - 12:05pm PT
Carry decent health insurance. That should be part of the community norm, if indeed it encourages needless risk-taking. Take responsibility for your actions. Don't go out willy-nilly and all excited to do a dangerous highball without thinking it through.

Here's a personal (rather extreme) example: when I drove from Atlanta out to Colorado in August of 1954 to experience real mountains, Dad and I talked it over and made sure I had burial insurance!

;>)
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Dec 5, 2017 - 12:06pm PT
It looks as if rfshore edited his post a bit to change the “tone”.
Yeah, coming in and telling Mr T he needs to get “learned up” before chiming in wasn’t the most tactful was to start what was otherwise a decent post.
Still, when you start bringing up gym climbers, idiot pro climbers, instatweetbook, and always doing things democratically, I just kinda roll my eyes.

I still can’t believe the dude crushed Hot Rocks and blew the top out on WR!
Hope he heals up- open tib fib is gnarly!
kingtut

climber
Jingus Newroutaineer
Dec 5, 2017 - 12:06pm PT
Health Insurance is just a community too, Ser Gill.

Voluntary contributions are identical to insurance premiums. People pay into them and others get the use...The words are just different for the money is fungible.
locker

climber
Dec 5, 2017 - 12:08pm PT


"Carry decent health insurance. That should be part of the community norm"...



"Calling TRUMP!!!...

Come in, Donald TRUMP!!!"...
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Dec 5, 2017 - 12:31pm PT
Voluntary contributions are identical to insurance premiums


Well, I don't think so, but whatever . . .

The idea of the community underwriting possible injuries should perhaps be firmed up with climbers donating to the fund on a regular basis. Doesn't the American Alpine Club to something like this?
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Dec 5, 2017 - 12:31pm PT
rfshore- it looks to me like you’re the one doing the name calling.
Just saying.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Dec 5, 2017 - 12:46pm PT
Going on 81 I suppose I'm just too old to understand the injury issue. Certainly, volunteering donations to help cover medical expenses above and beyond what decent health insurance pays is a good and worthy thing to do. But it just seems climbers should take some responsibility for their actions.

Is there anyone on this thread who agrees with me?

Sorry for the thread drift.
locker

climber
Dec 5, 2017 - 12:54pm PT

"it just seems climbers should take some responsibility for their actions...Is there anyone on this thread who agrees with me?"...


I do...


But that and a hill of beans won't even get you a cup of coffee...


;-)
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Dec 5, 2017 - 01:24pm PT
Looks like you can toss a pad or two over that thing, easy peasy, happens everywhere all the time.

Boulders - they're often found in clusters.
kingtut

climber
Jingus Newroutaineer
Dec 5, 2017 - 01:27pm PT
Is there anyone on this thread who agrees with me?

I totally agree with you Ser Gill! People do take responsibility (ultimately) the second they leave the ground. Pretty sure paralysis or death will have it's tax.

I don't agree other than (perhaps in translation) the simple act of soliciting community help is something to shame others over.

Insurance is a pool of money that people contribute to with the assurance that it is there for them too but it pays for others until needed....of course, until recently a policy could be cancelled at anytime by an insurance company...

Regardless, help with vast medical expenses is the same as barn raising to me or help baling hay...if you don't want to make a charitable contribution then don't, sir. And we all are complicit in the expense of medicine these days. You are part of the problem or part of the solution...

Others will choose to "pay it forward" in some vain hope that a karma debt may be paid or the favor returned in kind some day.
Trashman

Trad climber
SLC
Dec 5, 2017 - 02:13pm PT
Lesson learned, destroy the footstool boulder next time. Then Dick can volunteer to glue the little pieces back together.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 5, 2017 - 02:47pm PT
Sorry john but the health care system in this country is a fcking embaressment. even with expensive coverage any real sickness or injury will put you out on the street. If we don't help each other out in time of need WTF good are we?
hellroaring

Trad climber
San Francisco
Dec 5, 2017 - 03:08pm PT
When a road gets built through a national park that's altering and impacting the landscape in a BIG way. What about all the dynamiting to built parts of the JMT in the Sierra? I guess I can understand why NPS would be not like the public to alter and move. However, it does seem silly and over the top to move the thing back once it was in a new location. Just my worthless 2 cents. Hope the injured climber recovers as close to 100% as they can
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Dec 5, 2017 - 03:59pm PT
He's Australian probably has decent insurance


Hot rocks is way more manageable for me, short lil crux and I won't hit the ground ass over tea kettle. WR is scary
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Dec 5, 2017 - 03:59pm PT
Sorry john but the health care system in this country is a fcking embaressment. even with expensive coverage any real sickness or injury will put you out on the street. If we don't help each other out in time of need WTF good are we?


So, are you suggesting climbers avoid health insurance and, instead, rely on community assistance? My point is simply that climbers make an effort to insure themselves first, then donations kick in. The Obama mandate?

Interesting opinions about boulders and risk. Thanks.
ExfifteenExfifteen

climber
Dec 5, 2017 - 04:46pm PT
Sorry john but the health care system in this country is a fcking embaressment. even with expensive coverage any real sickness or injury will put you out on the street. If we don't help each other out in time of need WTF good are we?

That's way over-generized for sure. Someone very close to me, who has a good job with good insurance was hospitalized for 12 weeks, had half a dozen surgeries, spent 4 weeks in assisted living and 4 weeks with a live in nurse at home. A year later they are still living in their house and are doing just fine.

Maybe, the choices we make in life have serious consequences...

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 5, 2017 - 04:58pm PT
No John. I am stateing rather clearly that even with the insurance our health care system sucks and that everyone regardless of weather they are climbers or not should help their friends and family when they get sick or hurt. I have insurance but certainly can't afford to get sick or hurt. It costs a lot and does not cover a whole lot. Not to worry. your social security and medicare is on the chopping block next. you might not be so cocky on this subject down the road a bit.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 5, 2017 - 05:02pm PT
Ex15. I have good friends who had good jobs, teacher and school buss driver. Both have cancer. The teacher lost her job, buss driver had to go to work with a colostomy bag. they are on the verge of loseing their house. Not everyone is a rich f*#k.
Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
Dec 5, 2017 - 09:59pm PT
I forgot all about this sh#t-show... A 3 year old White Rasta discussion at this link:

https://joshuatreebouldering.wordpress.com/2014/12/04/white-rastafarians-fall-zone-boulder/
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Dec 5, 2017 - 10:21pm PT
Just don't come back to the climbing community and ask for donations for surgeries and rehabilitation. That's part of the "risk" one assumes.

Amen brother.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Dec 5, 2017 - 10:33pm PT
Back to the OT.... put a pad on that rock.

Nice video of White Rasta:

https://vimeo.com/61972905
little Z

Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
Dec 6, 2017 - 04:01am PT
how much did they spend moving intersection rock to the other side of the highway?

4) Super Topo reader snorted coffee all over computer and himself because of funniest comebacker on thread.
Victim never lost grip of coffee mug, and did not appear to sustain any physical injuries.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Sacramento, CA
Dec 6, 2017 - 09:18am PT
Credit: Jebus H Bomz
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Sacramento, CA
Dec 6, 2017 - 05:27pm PT
Credit: Jebus H Bomz

the rating may get LOB gristle twisted though
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Dec 6, 2017 - 05:48pm PT
Worth noting that WR is no longer rated v3?

Nor should it have ever been.

Curt
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Dec 6, 2017 - 06:08pm PT
V2? that is a woodson 5.7
WBraun

climber
Dec 6, 2017 - 06:21pm PT
So someone moved the rock danger at the base, BFD.

OMG !!!! the nature of the problem is now changed.

There's no more danger that you might hit that rock with your st00pid head and end up in a wheelchair for life anymore.

OMG!!!! we must preserve all this st00pid sh!t ...... rolls eyes
gruzzy

Social climber
socal
Dec 6, 2017 - 10:47pm PT
It's pretty easy to get a health plan. I don't know why one would participate in a hazardous sport without it. Get a high deductible, it will provide some peace of mind.
Byran

climber
Half Dome Village
Dec 7, 2017 - 05:58am PT
It's pretty easy to get a health plan. I don't know why one would participate in a hazardous sport without it. Get a high deductible, it will provide some peace of mind.
Why would having a health plan with a high deductible provide you with peace of mind??!!

Doesn't it defeat the whole point of having health insurance if you can't afford to ever use it?

But I think what you meant is that it's pretty easy to get a health plan if you have lots of money. And that having a health plan, along with lots of money, will provide some peace of mind. And that's certainly true.
Gunkie

Trad climber
Valles Marineris
Dec 7, 2017 - 06:44am PT
in 102 posts this thread has traversed from the initial accident report to moving a boulder to the sacred national parks to liability to what seems to be gang member images to injuries to health care to paying for health care and I probably missed something. Nice.

I can always find something interesting to distract me from work on the Taco. Keep up the good work.
ExfifteenExfifteen

climber
Dec 7, 2017 - 06:48am PT
Ex15. I have good friends who had good jobs, teacher and school buss driver. Both have cancer. The teacher lost her job, buss driver had to go to work with a colostomy bag. they are on the verge of loseing their house. Not everyone is a rich f*#k.

tradmanclimbs, Sorry to hear that. Never good to lose a job when there is a mortgage to pay.

I have a teacher friend who has cancer. She just returned to work after being out for over a year. Husband is a stay at home dad. She is not a rich f*#k like me, and they are not on the verge of losing their home. All I'm saying is you're just an over-generalizing dck f*#k...
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Dec 7, 2017 - 07:54am PT
Credit: drljefe
xCon

Social climber
909
Dec 7, 2017 - 08:02am PT
say, why are prescription drugs so much cheaper in Canada and mexico?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 7, 2017 - 08:11am PT
Moosehead is $4.49/six-pack here. Molson's $3.99. What's it go for in Canada?
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Dec 7, 2017 - 08:21am PT
Ooooooh, Chaz. Don't get me started on Canadian beer prices. It's bad enough to make one stay out of the country. Cali wine wasn't too bad when we were there in 2012.

Ques: Do the stratospheric beer prices energize a serious home brewing culture in Canada? I'd be all over it at those prices.

BAd
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 7, 2017 - 08:34am PT
One of my favorite paces to eat is a joint right on the Canadian border in Blaine called Big Al's Diner.

Right across the street - right on the border practically - is a little convenience store with a 75' sign you can see from Canada advertising their "deals".

Budweiser $18.95/12-pack

Butter $6/lb

Eggs $4.49/dozen

Anywhere else, except maybe Alaska, you'd keep prices that high a secret.
kingtut

climber
Jingus Newroutaineer
Dec 7, 2017 - 09:53am PT
Gawd Bwess 'Murica

Land of cheap beer and no health insurance....what a f*#kin' country...
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Dec 7, 2017 - 09:55am PT
Well at least we have the death penalty if you’re black or chicano and have a public defender.
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Dec 7, 2017 - 11:34am PT
*you’re
way runout

Boulder climber
Poway
Dec 7, 2017 - 01:41pm PT
*you’re

Doninni is stealing my trolling techniques.


Nicely done, Jim.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 7, 2017 - 03:22pm PT
Yes I get it. I am a terrible person for advocateing helping people out when they are sick or injured.
way runout

Boulder climber
Poway
Dec 7, 2017 - 04:02pm PT
Take a break, turdmanclimps
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Dec 7, 2017 - 04:02pm PT
you are an enabler tradman, got to dish out some tough love so that these poor people quit spending all their money on Top Ramen and buy health insurance.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 7, 2017 - 04:26pm PT
How many of you tough guys have ever given a homeless person a cheese burger or a blanket?
Trashman

Trad climber
SLC
Dec 7, 2017 - 05:19pm PT
Wait, I thought they were wasting their money on booze, movies, and women?
D2R2

Sport climber
Earth
Dec 7, 2017 - 05:25pm PT
The movies sound like a waste for sure
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Dec 7, 2017 - 05:27pm PT
How bout giving to a gofundme for someone’s dog Tradman???
gruzzy

Social climber
socal
Dec 7, 2017 - 07:30pm PT
1300 is considered a high deductible. That should provide a lot of peace.
But, if you're a big risk taker, go for the no insurance option, then beg strangers for the money for medical bills
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Dec 7, 2017 - 07:39pm PT
I have a major soft spot for Gofundmes.
Injured climbers, dogs, hurtin’ wooks, you name it.
Not everyone is rollin’ as hard as me so I try to help out where I can.

Check this one (campaign expired)

https://www.gofundme.com/super-out-of-weed

"Hey doods before you judge me let me tell my story. My so called "friends" came over last night to have a massage party and sesh. They showed up and would not stop asking me for phat bowls of my kush. I ended up sharing all my weed with my so called "fam". I am now %100 completely out of herbskies. As sad as this may sound I was so hurting I almost smoked a heaping bowl of resin this morning. If you couldfind it in your hearts to donate even a cent to my cause, it would be beyond appreciated. I am seriously jonesing for a smoke. Thank you all for listening to my story and possiblty donating towards my dub. For real thanks. Much love fam. #love and light #blessed
Help spread the word!"
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Dec 7, 2017 - 08:36pm PT
Out of herbskies! Sending you mo' scratch brosephus!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Dec 7, 2017 - 08:42pm PT
You gotta respect the gofundme folks who sit at cold, noisy intersections with cardboard hand written appeals while absorbing the stinkeye from passing motorists. The internet ones, i’m not so sure about.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Sacramento, CA
Dec 7, 2017 - 08:52pm PT
I like the internet ones because it’s easier to avoid direct eye contact.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Dec 8, 2017 - 06:41am PT
Gotta love the internet, so many choices. If compassion is not your cup of tea you could always donate to fund scientific research

https://www.gofundme.com/showBoBthecurve
Messages 1 - 124 of total 124 in this topic
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews