the popularity of climbing, 2017

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ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Jun 20, 2017 - 08:01am PT
Hey Bob/Nick, A paved parking lot? Where is it, at the first buttress? What fun things did you get a top rope on, inquiring minds want to know?
Moss
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2017 - 08:03am PT
I'm finding the responses interesting... my OP was rather non-judgemental regarding the popularity, the following responses seem to have made a set of assumptions regarding my initial post (when they comment on it).

anyway, keep the images coming!

Matt's

climber
Jun 20, 2017 - 08:20am PT
honestly, it's wonderful that climbers seem to naturally congregate to a select number of climbs--it minimizes the zone of environmental degradation-- would you really prefer that climbers were evenly distributed throughout a climbing area?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 20, 2017 - 08:34am PT
We have two little crags here a 1/4 mile apart - one sport, one trad. This weekend there were 40 cars at the sport crag and we had the trad crag to ourselves which happens regularly. If bolts evaporated overnight there'd be 90% fewer 'climbers' tomorrow.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jun 20, 2017 - 08:40am PT
I can still see what I saw the day I was hooked on climbing...

A buddy took me up the Nutcracker and I was hooked for 20yrs and quit mtb racing. The exposure and being up there did me in... I would assume there are a lot of others like myself. More people = more people = ^popularity^

How can I be bummed there are others? To me that is selfish. I get bummed at how folks treat the 'out of doors'.
Nick Danger

Ice climber
Arvada, CO
Jun 20, 2017 - 09:32am PT
Scott,
The paved parking lot is at the first buttress, right where the wide gravel spot by the side of the road was BITD. I took a top rope up Lefthand Crack and fell twice at the crux before pulling through. I had forgotten (A) how overhung it is at the crux, and (B) how crappy those jams are at the crux. Honestly, that climb is way harder than the 5.8 we rated it at, objectively speaking I'm thinking an honest 10a. I was totally whacked by the time I topped out. Scott, send me your e-mail address, I've got some other stuff to share with you.
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Jun 20, 2017 - 09:50am PT
Wow Bob, I'm sure I would have to be "tensioned" through the crux on Left Hand, if I could. Hard to believe that bitd I had it so wired that I downclimbed that crux in the rain, solo. Although, the crux jam fit my fist just perfectly.

I don't want to give out my email here, do you have my cell #? Or, if I have yours I can txt my email address to you.

Scott
Nick Danger

Ice climber
Arvada, CO
Jun 20, 2017 - 10:00am PT
three oh three eight seven five seven two oh eight
clarkolator

climber
Jun 20, 2017 - 12:41pm PT
Hi Ed, nice to meet you Sunday morning. For what it's worth, we hoofed it up to Corrugation Corner and got right on the route. And my friend was able to do her first lead on gear, what a great first exposure to exposure!
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2017 - 07:26pm PT
nice to meet you clarkolator Meg and Megan, and glad that you got on the route!
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Oct 19, 2017 - 04:21pm PT
Get off the beaten track and explore. Forget about challenging yourself with established difficulty. If you want to do that go to a gym and stand in line.
phylp

Trad climber
Upland, CA
Oct 19, 2017 - 04:49pm PT
I didn't read through the whole thread but based on the OP, I just want to say...
this is what's so great about being retired. I only very rarely climb on a weekend these days. And when I do, I go places that don't seem to have a lot of crowds. If I do run into a crowd, it's usually at a sport climbing crag - and then it's just enjoyable and social. Even if I have to wait for a route, who cares? It's not like I can climb 10 sport routes in a day at this point. It's OK to have a rest.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 19, 2017 - 07:42pm PT
any guidebook ETA updates?

all of the topos (more than 850) have been digitized and the descriptions are the main task now...
with these two components the book layout can begin...

you could have asked Eric at the FaceLift to gaze upon the topos.... he had them at the front desk... they look very good.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Oct 19, 2017 - 08:45pm PT
My biggest beef is with the damn rappel routes that were installed 15-ish years ago. So many people rap routes now that the ridge trail is getting overgrown. It was common practice to climb to the top and walk off. I'd equate the rap routes with the advent of leashes in surfing. It creates crowds where no crowds used to be.

the addition of bolted stations 17-18 yr's ago has ruined the experience , or the purity of the experience, and droped the learning process to nil. Also with the advent of bolted ' Rap stations' Gudes and all others now top rope the crap out of everything , climbs I once felt totally secure on, are polished to a glassy finish.

one move wonders, where there is only one foot hold, ( C.C.K, ) are so polished that they could be considered a grade harder.
The idea that the top was being saved from erosion is and always was BS.

The (newer) installation of bolted anchors at the 'Gunks was essentially presented as a fait accompli, and it was a classic advertising campaign.

Create a need or exploit one - Don't you want to be safe while climbing? Doesn't everyone?

Add a sense of urgency - There are dozens of unsafe rappel stations out there, and someone is going to get hurt. Something needs to be done now.

Offer people a simplistic, binary choice - Either continue abseiling off these time bombs or let us install modern, safe anchors.

The situation has been unfortunate for a while and isn't going to get better any time soon. In fact, the Preserve has entered into a partnership with Petzl to train people in proper placement and removal of bolts, and training sessions are being arranged through the Preserve and the Gunks Climbers Coalition to train people from other areas in anchor construction, so the bolting of various local areas, including the Gunks, is only going to accelerate.

Considering the crowds and the way climbing has evolved, some bolting in the main Gunks crags is at this point inevitable. We are never going back to the days of walking back from climbs, partially because that isn't what the modern climber does, partially because a change in parking regulations years ago forced climbers to carry their gear to the base of routes (once you have a pack at the base, you ain't gonna walk back to the Uberfall and then back to your pack), and partially because power drill technology makes bolting possible on a scale that would have been unthinkable with hand drilling.

A problem is that, from the beginning as far as I can tell, the objectives of the bolting program were not clearly articulated and there was little sense of what the unintended side-effects might be. These problems were compounded by an inability to learn from mistakes, so that long after the unintended consequences of dangerous and disruptive two-way route traffic and top-rope hogging were noted, the Preserve continued to create anchors that promoted these outcomes, while studiously avoiding any attempt to regulate the climber behaviors that also created such anchors.

When new climbers arrive, they take the situation they find in place to be both normal and desirable, which creates a demand for ever more convenience anchors. So rather than fostering a minimally invasive appreciation of the outdoors, the Preserve has followed a good part of the rest of the climbing world in viewing the environment as something to be carved and shaped to promote human recreation. Admittedly, this is a somewhat facile criticism that ignores the fact that we humans build trails and other facilities that promote outdoor recreation all the time. So it becomes a matter of degree, and my position is that the Preserve, which claims to favor the benefits of quiet unobtrusive contemplation of nature, is far from its own principles.

Ironically, mere usage has its own carving effects, and the symptoms of overuse due to crowding have become the most recent Preserve rationale for bolted rap stations. Trees should be protected from rappel slings and soil compaction, and eroded areas should be quarantined and allowed to recover. All this makes perfect sense, but always the solution has been a bolted anchor rather than any attempt to shape climber behavior. In the absence of Preserve action, the Gunks Climbers Coalition has tried to span the breach by launching an education campaign targeting destructive practices. It is too soon to know whether this can be effective, but as the program of an independent entity without any type of enforcement authority or responsibility, there seem to me to be natural limits to how much the GCC can do.

What is sad about the way things have turned out is that the Preserve owns the land, and so has always had the unfettered authority to determine how it will be used or misused. But, ostensibly for liability reasons, the Preserve eschewed regulation of climbing practices, and instead embraced a reactive after-the-fact cleaning up of climber messes, putting it eternally behind the usage curve.

My current view (not that anyone listens to me), is that we should admit that the game has been lost (and maybe never could have been won) and try to implement a rational approach that returns a few classic climbs to as close to pristine shape as is possible given the high level of usage. This would mean identifying some bottom-to-top classics in a range of grades, totally eliminating installed anchors on those climbs, and (gasp) banning the placement of slings on rock formations and trees on these routes. (High Exposure, for example, already meets this criterion.) Such climbs would be available solely for bottom-to-top ascents, with whatever belay anchors can be arranged from the rock and surviving vegetation, and the descents would have to be made elsewhere so that no two-way traffic is possible. Of course, the modern climbing world being what it is, "elsewhere" cannot be too inconvenient, so a reasonably-spaced set of rappel highways back to the ground would have to be established (most of these are already in place).

A sticking point of this proposal for the Preserve seems to be the need to walk along the top of the cliff to the nearest rap highway, thereby increasing cliff top traffic. I think preserving the cliff-top at the expense of the face and bottom has been a devil's bargain that now impedes what seems to me to be the last hope for holding on to a few shreds of the genuine trad experience.

But there is the rub. I don't think the Preserve realizes that it presides over a vanishing resource, a trad climbing area that might have allowed many future generations to experience climbing as dictated by the rock, not the drill-powered architects of convenience and conservation. Taking a page from the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, and going for a bit of melodrama, it seems to me to be just a few minutes before midnight, and the clock is ticking.
Stewart Johnson

Mountain climber
lake forest
Oct 20, 2017 - 05:49am PT

fifteen minutes from the road. don't be scared.
Gunkie

Trad climber
Valles Marineris
Oct 20, 2017 - 06:24am PT
The situation has been unfortunate for a while and isn't going to get better any time soon. In fact, the Preserve has entered into a partnership with Petzl to train people in proper placement and removal of bolts, and training sessions are being arranged through the Preserve and the Gunks Climbers Coalition to train people from other areas in anchor construction, so the bolting of various local areas, including the Gunks, is only going to accelerate.

Considering the crowds and the way climbing has evolved, some bolting in the main Gunks crags is at this point inevitable. We are never going back to the days of walking back from climbs, partially because that isn't what the modern climber does, partially because a change in parking regulations years ago forced climbers to carry their gear to the base of routes (once you have a pack at the base, you ain't gonna walk back to the Uberfall and then back to your pack), and partially because power drill technology makes bolting possible on a scale that would have been unthinkable with hand drilling.

A problem is that, from the beginning as far as I can tell, the objectives of the bolting program were not clearly articulated and there was little sense of what the unintended side-effects might be. These problems were compounded by an inability to learn from mistakes, so that long after the unintended consequences of dangerous and disruptive two-way route traffic and top-rope hogging were noted, the Preserve continued to create anchors that promoted these outcomes, while studiously avoiding any attempt to regulate the climber behaviors that also created such anchors.

When new climbers arrive, they take the situation they find in place to be both normal and desirable, which creates a demand for ever more convenience anchors. So rather than fostering a minimally invasive appreciation of the outdoors, the Preserve has followed a good part of the rest of the climbing world in viewing the environment as something to be carved and shaped to promote human recreation. Admittedly, this is a somewhat facile criticism that ignores the fact that we humans build trails and other facilities that promote outdoor recreation all the time. So it becomes a matter of degree, and my position is that the Preserve, which claims to favor the benefits of quiet contemplation of nature, is far from its own principles.

Ironically, mere usage has its own carving effects, and the symptoms of overuse due to crowding have become the most recent Preserve rationale for bolted rap stations. Trees should be protected from rappel slings and soil compaction, and eroded areas should be quarantined and allowed to recover. All this makes perfect sense, but always the solution has been a bolted anchor rather than any attempt to shape climber behavior. In the absence of Preserve action, the Gunks Climbers Coalition has tried to span the breach by launching an education campaign targeting destructive practices. It is too soon to know whether this can be effective, but as the program of an independent entity without any type of enforcement authority or responsibility, there seem to me to be natural limits to how much the GCC can do.

What is sad about the way things have turned out is that the Preserve owns the land, and so has always had the unfettered authority to determine how it will be used or misused. But, ostensibly for liability reasons, the Preserve eschewed regulation of climbing practices, and instead embraced a reactive after-the-fact cleaning up of climber messes, putting it eternally behind the usage curve.

My current view (not that anyone listens to me), is that we should admit that the game has been lost (and maybe never could have been won) and try to implement a rational approach that returns a few classic climbs to as close to pristine shape as is possible given the high level of usage. This would mean identifying some bottom-to-top classics in a range of grades, totally eliminating installed anchors on those climbs, and (gasp) banning the placement of slings on rock formations and trees on these routes. (High Exposure, for example, already meets this criterion.) Such climbs would be available solely for bottom-to-top ascents, with whatever belay anchors can be arranged from the rock and surviving vegetation, and the descents would have to be made elsewhere so that no two-way traffic is possible. Of course, the modern climbing world being what it is, "elsewhere" cannot be too inconvenient, so a reasonably-spaced set of rappel highways back to the ground would have to be established (most of these are already in place).

A sticking point of this proposal for the Preserve seems to be the need to walk along the top of the cliff to the nearest rap highway, thereby increasing cliff top traffic. I think preserving the cliff-top at the expense of the face and bottom has been a devil's bargain that now impedes what seems to me to be the last hope for holding on to a few shreds of the genuine trad experience.

But there is the rub. I don't think the Preserve realizes that it presides over a vanishing resource, a trad climbing area that might have allowed many future generations to experience climbing as dictated by the rock, not the drill-powered architects of convenience and conservation. Taking a page from the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, and going for a bit of melodrama, it seems to me to be just a few minutes before midnight, and the clock is ticking.

Work of art, rgold. BTW, I bet you, too, walked back for your pack after topping out and walking to the Uberfall along the ridge.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 20, 2017 - 06:57am PT

One nearly virgin (only 4 routes so far) multi pitch crag. Thousands more still to see to a single climbers passage. The wilderness experience is still out there and beckoning.
Alan Rubin

climber
Amherst,MA.
Oct 20, 2017 - 06:59am PT
Sadly, there is very real cause to worry at the Gunks that if you leave your pack at the base of a route and then walk back to get it after walking off the top it won't still be there.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Oct 20, 2017 - 08:25am PT
As far as I can tell Al, there is an amazingly low level of theft at the Gunks. Even with the rappelling, packs are in reality left unattended for long periods of time. One reason is that more and more climbers are enchaining routes in various ways that do not involve returning to the ground. Thefts, at least the ones I hear about either through the grapevine or on social media or places like MP, seem to me to be pretty rare. Very occasionally there has been a rash of thefts, although this is usually car break-ins, and in this case when the thieves are caught, which they usually are, it turns out to be a single small group.

As for walking along the top and back to a pack, it is actually faster than rappelling in many cases, depending on how close the route is to either the Uberfall, Radcliffe, or Roger's Escape Hatch. I've actually done the experiment, with one party rapping while I walk (not run!) back and around, and as I say, for routes that are relatively close to the descents, walking wins.
Gunkie

Trad climber
Valles Marineris
Oct 20, 2017 - 09:01am PT
As for walking along the top and back to a pack, it is actually faster than rappelling in many cases, depending on how close the route is to either the Uberfall, Radcliffe, or Roger's Escape Hatch. I've actually done the experiment, with one party rapping while I walk (not run!) back and around, and as I say, for routes that are relatively close to the descents, walking wins.

AND it's so much more pleasant, in general. I can turn off and think about things walking down whereas, if I'm rappelling, I gotta stay on top of my game and focus or die. YMMV.
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