the popularity of climbing, 2017

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Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 18, 2017 - 11:07pm PT
CPF June 3, 2017
4 parties on the route, 2 waiting at the base... we were walking back from Kor-Beck, which had a party of 3 on the first pitch with a party of 2 waiting (hi Johanna & Jeff!)...


Bear's Reach on a very busy Saturday, June 17, 2017


there could very possibly have been a rope on the three pitches from the ground to the top, the "bushy ledge" was very social indeed...
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 18, 2017 - 11:11pm PT
From 2010

When we showed up the route was 3 parties deep. Waited at the base for about 45 min before firing off.
http://www.supertopo.com/tr/Noob-5-9-leaders-on-CPF/t10775n.html
Byran

climber
Half Dome Village
Jun 18, 2017 - 11:49pm PT
Did Zodiac a couple weeks ago. Perfect 7 day forecast and 0 other parties on the wall.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Belmont, California
Jun 19, 2017 - 12:20am PT
And yet no one is ever up at the Warren Towers in Lee Vining Canyon to do the Gable-Hartouni. What's the matter? Don't they like to walk?
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jun 19, 2017 - 05:18am PT
Timing, walking, and don't settle for lame routes. There's a whole world out there!
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jun 19, 2017 - 05:41am PT
Fuque queues all around.

I know, I don't climb any longer, but I feel your disconcert, guys.

All I can say is I'm so very, very glad because my climbing career, such as it was, was vastly uncrowded and far less minutely scrutinized.

There was never ever a line at the base of those MCR routes that lie so close to the road. But then CPF had not been done yet, only the lowly Ch/Pratt and the (then) Kor/Beck "Dirt Direct," the neglected Powell/Reed and the awesome corner of the Bircheff/Williams line. And The Flakes, the unprotected but mellow line far to the right.

Hell, you had to look sharp to see anyone on any of these, ever.
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Jun 19, 2017 - 05:47am PT
Ah, well, those are two mega classics on weekends. CPF has had crowds for over 20 years. At least now there's a separate rap route. BITD the doods above would have to rap straight through those coming up--a freakin' PITA. Fortunately, I can usually dodge the weekends. Time to hunt for the more obscure lines when possible. I was blessed to take a young fella out to his first Leap outing a couple of years ago. We were able to go mid-week and didn't have even ONE other party on all the classics, and we did a buttload.

BAd
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Jun 19, 2017 - 06:04am PT
I took my son on a tour of Valley classics in May some few years ago when Grossman & Mimi got married. Crowds don't matter quite as much when you're first on the route, and alpine starts did the trick. 5am at Nutcracker had us as the first party of the day, and it was as fun as it was the last time I climbed in in 1976. Still though, lots of folks out climbing these days, and I thought the degradation of climbing gyms meant everyone was supposed to go do closely bolted sport routes, what's with all the folks on humble crack routes, aren't they supposed to be afraid of placing gear? ;-)
Gunkie

Trad climber
Valles Marineris
Jun 19, 2017 - 06:09am PT
Gunks continue to be a zoo. I'm pretty sure that the Trapps and Near Trapps are at maximum capacity on any weekend day that has fairly decent weather and have been that way for the last two decades. With that said, if you keep your objectives open and your eyes open you can still find plenty of good climbs wide open. My biggest beef is with the damn rappel routes that were installed 15-ish years ago. So many people rap routes now that the ridge trail is getting overgrown. It was common practice to climb to the top and walk off. I'd equate the rap routes with the advent of leashes in surfing. It creates crowds where no crowds used to be.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jun 19, 2017 - 06:16am PT
High season + weekend + late start + California = you'll have lots of company.

Doesn't matter what you're doing. My Old Man said the same thing about golf when I talked to him yesterday.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jun 19, 2017 - 06:25am PT
As Gunkie points out but does not mention, the addition of bolted stations 17-18 yr's ago has ruined the experience , or the purity of the experience, and droped the learning process to nil. Also with the advent of bolted ' Rap stations' Gudes and all others now top rope the crap out of everything , climbs I once felt totally secure on, are polished to a glassy finish.

one move wonders, where there is only one foot hold, ( C.C.K, ) are so polished that they could be considered a grade harder.
The idea that the top was being saved from erosion is and always was BS. The monitazation, for the now failed industry leader, Eastern Mountain Sports(EMS) was the co-sponsor in the back ground , pushing the ' need' for bolted anchors, it then led to a whole new level , the Single Pitch certification, that has destroyed that purity of the experience .
Loose Rocks

Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
Jun 19, 2017 - 07:40am PT
Minus Kor-Beck, which I'm not a regular visitor of, I have seen those conditions at the start of those routes over multiple years. For moderate climbs the inverse proportion of climber density and distance from parking applies.
Charlie D.

Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
Jun 19, 2017 - 08:44am PT
^^^ Ha! I sometimes think with 40 million people in this state many think if there isn't a line something may be wrong. Whether waiting in line with an infinite amount of rock around or it's being tail gated on a winding unpassable road or seeing the hord in line at a chair lift such is normal for many. Skiing one time at Mammoth there was this huge line yet right around the corner a lift with no wait was there to whisk you up to the same high quality snow that day......."Cityits"???
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 19, 2017 - 08:47am PT
Plenty of mountain folk stand in line on weekends. I just finished a bouldering session on Donner Summit. Nary a soul.
DanaB

climber
CT
Jun 19, 2017 - 08:54am PT
The (newer) installation of bolted anchors at the 'Gunks was essentially presented as a fait accompli, and it was a classic advertising campaign.

Create a need or exploit one - Don't you want to be safe while climbing? Doesn't everyone?

Add a sense of urgency - There are dozens of unsafe rappel stations out there, and someone is going to get hurt. Something needs to be done now.

Offer people a simplistic, binary choice - Either continue abseiling off these time bombs or let us install modern, safe anchors.
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Jun 19, 2017 - 09:02am PT
It's such a surprise and a pleasure to see other climbers (at least some that I don't know) when climbing on Sonora Pass.

I never take advantage of the easy camping though; I'm spoiled enough to just come home at night.

But what I really miss (hahahaha) is being harassed by overworked rangers who've had so much constant exposure to idiots that they assume that everyone is one.
WBraun

climber
Jun 19, 2017 - 09:05am PT
Like anything .....

First, comes the pioneers and then the hoard of the masses and all their commercialization, and need for excessive media exposure.

"Look at ME, look what I do, I'm a climber"

"Follow ME" ......
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Jun 19, 2017 - 10:57am PT
A few short years ago you could just get on something harder, but now if it's even remotely good it's everyone's proj - instagram updates galor of that glorious 15 seconds you managed to stay off the rope - on your 30th attempt. Everyone gets their own little Dawn Wall.
kaholatingtong

Trad climber
The real McCoy from the inside of my van.
Jun 19, 2017 - 11:03am PT
Lemmings, the lot of em!!

Just climb some slab, we generally have those, sometimes entire crags or areas to ourself when the congas are taking place nearby... climbed during facelift last year and had the entire arches apron all to ourselves... just gotta be willing to climb obscure or be willing to deal with an approach...
norm larson

climber
wilson, wyoming
Jun 19, 2017 - 11:12am PT
I agree with the sentiment that in general a lot of what we care about has gone to hell. But, the good news is that many of us got to climb in a time before it was so crowded.at least we have that.
micronut

Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
Jun 19, 2017 - 11:13am PT
Interesting topic Ed.

I can only imagine how Big Wave surfers feel. Here's Jeff Clark back in the day on Mavericks....surfing it nearly alone for over a decade.


And check it out these days when a proper swell comes in....

And that is a wave that can kill you. A relatively small population of the surfing world can step up to that wave, yet look at what it has become. Sometimes I think we climbers have it good.
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Jun 19, 2017 - 11:30am PT
The world is feeling population pressures all over.
Climbing gyms and sport bolting seemed like a good idea at the time but they sure drew tons of people into climbing.
Two of the best trad climbers around, Alex H and Sonny Trotter, came from this world so it can't be all bad but I kind of wish things had stayed the same.
Nothing ever stays the same though.
mooch

Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Kernville Annex)
Jun 19, 2017 - 11:45am PT
The most I've ever waited for a select route was for 'Whodunnit'. What a frickin' abortion! After that, much more obscure areas that sport gems for a lifetime. Yep, lemmings.....the lot of 'em!


Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jun 19, 2017 - 11:48am PT
Select guides are having unintended consequences, although I'm not sure how the result is not predictable.

Internet guides are having similar results, they tend to focus on a small cross section of popular routes.

Still, California is full of great climbing where you'll rarely see another soul. And in many cases the adventure is half the fun.
WyoRockMan

climber
Grizzlyville, WY
Jun 19, 2017 - 12:05pm PT
A whole lotta "Git off ma lawn!" vibe here.

I see the popularity of climbing as a mostly positive thing. I'd rather see people getting out and being active than the alternative. My perspective is probably a bit skewed though, if another party is at the local crag, that's a busy day.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jun 19, 2017 - 12:15pm PT
unintended consequences

Boy howdy! Any guide for any form of rec has these 'consequences'. Before google earth and the internets we got 15' and maybe a couple larger scaled 7.5' maps and just went where the eye took us via the art of the cartographer, not the text of a climber, biker or hiker that might accompany a map or be in a guide. I do and have always thought that climbing guides are the most necessary of the guides for users safety sake; all teh other guides are just like extra cans of spray paint. The mountaineers came out with some 50 classic hikes of the PNW or something lame like that and it had a hella neg impact on some very beautiful and unique lake/canyon zones in my area. These zones are in the GreatBurn of 1910 so the ecology is really coo compared to what lies adjacent it. In a little over 10 years the place has been trampled, trashed, the wild goats wait for the trash of campers/day hikers and folks just figured they could make campsites anywhere and they did, destroying unique bankside habitats and micro waterfalls. It was total wilderness quality, like parts of Glacier, now not so much...and I'm not just talking about the human wilderness construct, I am including the living things that do not understand our views of wilderness as well. Frikkin' guide books. I love them for some things and loathe them for others.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jun 19, 2017 - 12:59pm PT
Shoulda kept it to themselves.

True but I do like me a good climbing guide book, I thought Brad did an awesome job on the Sonora Pass gig.
yeah I remember those select guides...? I gotta say Milktoast, thee most Milquetoast of guide book companies is McFalcon, computer generated everything and questionable knowledge...but hey, they get 'em out there quick! Hand drawn topos are coo.
norm larson

climber
wilson, wyoming
Jun 19, 2017 - 03:55pm PT
You know while agree that there are way too many climbers these days I do remember waiting in line for CPF in 1983. The best era in the past 4 decades for crowds on the routes I like was the nineties when everyone was "sport" climbing and the "real" climbs were uncrowded.
G_Gnome

Trad climber
Cali
Jun 19, 2017 - 04:58pm PT
Had the entire crag to ourselves yesterday. But then you did need to walk a little ways up and down to get to it.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jun 19, 2017 - 05:04pm PT
I like sacrificial cows. Keeps the resta-um fresh and ready
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jun 19, 2017 - 05:12pm PT
Don't forget the "Beta Matrix".

Anyone with a smart phone and half a brain has access to tens of thousands of "how to" videos, trip reports, gear reviews, maps, directions, photos, Google Earth, inexpensive or used gear on the internet, partners, climbing specific social media sites, and most importantly- the climbing blogosphere (how else would you learn to say "locals only brah").

And if they live long enough, they can graduate to Super Topo curmudgeon status.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 19, 2017 - 05:20pm PT
And if they live long enough, they can graduate to Super Topo curmudgeon status.

Haha, guffaw, snort, chortle, snicker...

Good one.

Hey, wait a minute...

...you talkin'' to me youngster?
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jun 19, 2017 - 05:39pm PT
You're alive so you've earned it:)
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Jun 19, 2017 - 06:19pm PT
still waiting for the hallmark card and three day mattress sale honoring those of us who planned barrenhood
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Jun 19, 2017 - 06:58pm PT

No crowds here . . . in fact it could use a little more traffic.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Jun 19, 2017 - 07:05pm PT
Be careful what you wish for...
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Jun 19, 2017 - 07:11pm PT
Brad Esser & I were down at Chiquito Dome a couple of weeks ago...we had the whole place to ourselves :) Wouldn't recommend it now though...too hot!

Chiquito Dome
Brad on Not Advertised...

I remember back in the late '80s waiting for CPF...
Here's a Conga Line on Snake Dike in 2015. I count 6 parties...

Cathedral Peak in 2012

;)
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Jun 19, 2017 - 08:32pm PT
Ah yes, HD cables -1961 after an ascent of the Salathe SW face route................................

Bitchen Bill Amborn.

Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Jun 19, 2017 - 08:38pm PT
Priceless image Guido . . . gracias.
Nick Danger

Ice climber
Arvada, CO
Jun 20, 2017 - 06:32am PT
I spent a wonderful few hours in my old stomping grounds in Taylor Canyon outside of Gunnison this weekend. They have added a paved parking lot and an outfitters' company (rafting and rock climbing), so lots of people on the weekend as well as on Monday. Actually, it was nice to see some of the old test pieces I put up in the early 1970's so popular, and it was nice to get a ride on someone else's top rope up something I am WAY TOO over the hill to lead today. The irony was to see all of the crags I had wanted to develop up Spring Creek utterly devoid of human presence. I drove by one such crag and recognized it from the very few visits I had made BITD and it look, based on the vegetation around it, like it had not been visited since. There is a ton of rock waiting to be climbed out there, with nobody around it these days. You just gotta look for it, and not always look that hard at that.

Concerning Frostback's suggestion of Nevada, In the three decades that I have been doing geology out there I have seen several lifetimes of virgin rock just waiting for some climber to come along and climb it.

Life is good and rock is plentiful, ya just gotta leave the crowds behind and go lookin' fer it.
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Jun 20, 2017 - 08:01am PT
Hey Bob/Nick, A paved parking lot? Where is it, at the first buttress? What fun things did you get a top rope on, inquiring minds want to know?
Moss
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2017 - 08:03am PT
I'm finding the responses interesting... my OP was rather non-judgemental regarding the popularity, the following responses seem to have made a set of assumptions regarding my initial post (when they comment on it).

anyway, keep the images coming!

Matt's

climber
Jun 20, 2017 - 08:20am PT
honestly, it's wonderful that climbers seem to naturally congregate to a select number of climbs--it minimizes the zone of environmental degradation-- would you really prefer that climbers were evenly distributed throughout a climbing area?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 20, 2017 - 08:34am PT
We have two little crags here a 1/4 mile apart - one sport, one trad. This weekend there were 40 cars at the sport crag and we had the trad crag to ourselves which happens regularly. If bolts evaporated overnight there'd be 90% fewer 'climbers' tomorrow.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jun 20, 2017 - 08:40am PT
I can still see what I saw the day I was hooked on climbing...

A buddy took me up the Nutcracker and I was hooked for 20yrs and quit mtb racing. The exposure and being up there did me in... I would assume there are a lot of others like myself. More people = more people = ^popularity^

How can I be bummed there are others? To me that is selfish. I get bummed at how folks treat the 'out of doors'.
Nick Danger

Ice climber
Arvada, CO
Jun 20, 2017 - 09:32am PT
Scott,
The paved parking lot is at the first buttress, right where the wide gravel spot by the side of the road was BITD. I took a top rope up Lefthand Crack and fell twice at the crux before pulling through. I had forgotten (A) how overhung it is at the crux, and (B) how crappy those jams are at the crux. Honestly, that climb is way harder than the 5.8 we rated it at, objectively speaking I'm thinking an honest 10a. I was totally whacked by the time I topped out. Scott, send me your e-mail address, I've got some other stuff to share with you.
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Jun 20, 2017 - 09:50am PT
Wow Bob, I'm sure I would have to be "tensioned" through the crux on Left Hand, if I could. Hard to believe that bitd I had it so wired that I downclimbed that crux in the rain, solo. Although, the crux jam fit my fist just perfectly.

I don't want to give out my email here, do you have my cell #? Or, if I have yours I can txt my email address to you.

Scott
Nick Danger

Ice climber
Arvada, CO
Jun 20, 2017 - 10:00am PT
three oh three eight seven five seven two oh eight
clarkolator

climber
Jun 20, 2017 - 12:41pm PT
Hi Ed, nice to meet you Sunday morning. For what it's worth, we hoofed it up to Corrugation Corner and got right on the route. And my friend was able to do her first lead on gear, what a great first exposure to exposure!
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2017 - 07:26pm PT
nice to meet you clarkolator Meg and Megan, and glad that you got on the route!
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Oct 19, 2017 - 04:21pm PT
Get off the beaten track and explore. Forget about challenging yourself with established difficulty. If you want to do that go to a gym and stand in line.
phylp

Trad climber
Upland, CA
Oct 19, 2017 - 04:49pm PT
I didn't read through the whole thread but based on the OP, I just want to say...
this is what's so great about being retired. I only very rarely climb on a weekend these days. And when I do, I go places that don't seem to have a lot of crowds. If I do run into a crowd, it's usually at a sport climbing crag - and then it's just enjoyable and social. Even if I have to wait for a route, who cares? It's not like I can climb 10 sport routes in a day at this point. It's OK to have a rest.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 19, 2017 - 07:42pm PT
any guidebook ETA updates?

all of the topos (more than 850) have been digitized and the descriptions are the main task now...
with these two components the book layout can begin...

you could have asked Eric at the FaceLift to gaze upon the topos.... he had them at the front desk... they look very good.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Oct 19, 2017 - 08:45pm PT
My biggest beef is with the damn rappel routes that were installed 15-ish years ago. So many people rap routes now that the ridge trail is getting overgrown. It was common practice to climb to the top and walk off. I'd equate the rap routes with the advent of leashes in surfing. It creates crowds where no crowds used to be.

the addition of bolted stations 17-18 yr's ago has ruined the experience , or the purity of the experience, and droped the learning process to nil. Also with the advent of bolted ' Rap stations' Gudes and all others now top rope the crap out of everything , climbs I once felt totally secure on, are polished to a glassy finish.

one move wonders, where there is only one foot hold, ( C.C.K, ) are so polished that they could be considered a grade harder.
The idea that the top was being saved from erosion is and always was BS.

The (newer) installation of bolted anchors at the 'Gunks was essentially presented as a fait accompli, and it was a classic advertising campaign.

Create a need or exploit one - Don't you want to be safe while climbing? Doesn't everyone?

Add a sense of urgency - There are dozens of unsafe rappel stations out there, and someone is going to get hurt. Something needs to be done now.

Offer people a simplistic, binary choice - Either continue abseiling off these time bombs or let us install modern, safe anchors.

The situation has been unfortunate for a while and isn't going to get better any time soon. In fact, the Preserve has entered into a partnership with Petzl to train people in proper placement and removal of bolts, and training sessions are being arranged through the Preserve and the Gunks Climbers Coalition to train people from other areas in anchor construction, so the bolting of various local areas, including the Gunks, is only going to accelerate.

Considering the crowds and the way climbing has evolved, some bolting in the main Gunks crags is at this point inevitable. We are never going back to the days of walking back from climbs, partially because that isn't what the modern climber does, partially because a change in parking regulations years ago forced climbers to carry their gear to the base of routes (once you have a pack at the base, you ain't gonna walk back to the Uberfall and then back to your pack), and partially because power drill technology makes bolting possible on a scale that would have been unthinkable with hand drilling.

A problem is that, from the beginning as far as I can tell, the objectives of the bolting program were not clearly articulated and there was little sense of what the unintended side-effects might be. These problems were compounded by an inability to learn from mistakes, so that long after the unintended consequences of dangerous and disruptive two-way route traffic and top-rope hogging were noted, the Preserve continued to create anchors that promoted these outcomes, while studiously avoiding any attempt to regulate the climber behaviors that also created such anchors.

When new climbers arrive, they take the situation they find in place to be both normal and desirable, which creates a demand for ever more convenience anchors. So rather than fostering a minimally invasive appreciation of the outdoors, the Preserve has followed a good part of the rest of the climbing world in viewing the environment as something to be carved and shaped to promote human recreation. Admittedly, this is a somewhat facile criticism that ignores the fact that we humans build trails and other facilities that promote outdoor recreation all the time. So it becomes a matter of degree, and my position is that the Preserve, which claims to favor the benefits of quiet unobtrusive contemplation of nature, is far from its own principles.

Ironically, mere usage has its own carving effects, and the symptoms of overuse due to crowding have become the most recent Preserve rationale for bolted rap stations. Trees should be protected from rappel slings and soil compaction, and eroded areas should be quarantined and allowed to recover. All this makes perfect sense, but always the solution has been a bolted anchor rather than any attempt to shape climber behavior. In the absence of Preserve action, the Gunks Climbers Coalition has tried to span the breach by launching an education campaign targeting destructive practices. It is too soon to know whether this can be effective, but as the program of an independent entity without any type of enforcement authority or responsibility, there seem to me to be natural limits to how much the GCC can do.

What is sad about the way things have turned out is that the Preserve owns the land, and so has always had the unfettered authority to determine how it will be used or misused. But, ostensibly for liability reasons, the Preserve eschewed regulation of climbing practices, and instead embraced a reactive after-the-fact cleaning up of climber messes, putting it eternally behind the usage curve.

My current view (not that anyone listens to me), is that we should admit that the game has been lost (and maybe never could have been won) and try to implement a rational approach that returns a few classic climbs to as close to pristine shape as is possible given the high level of usage. This would mean identifying some bottom-to-top classics in a range of grades, totally eliminating installed anchors on those climbs, and (gasp) banning the placement of slings on rock formations and trees on these routes. (High Exposure, for example, already meets this criterion.) Such climbs would be available solely for bottom-to-top ascents, with whatever belay anchors can be arranged from the rock and surviving vegetation, and the descents would have to be made elsewhere so that no two-way traffic is possible. Of course, the modern climbing world being what it is, "elsewhere" cannot be too inconvenient, so a reasonably-spaced set of rappel highways back to the ground would have to be established (most of these are already in place).

A sticking point of this proposal for the Preserve seems to be the need to walk along the top of the cliff to the nearest rap highway, thereby increasing cliff top traffic. I think preserving the cliff-top at the expense of the face and bottom has been a devil's bargain that now impedes what seems to me to be the last hope for holding on to a few shreds of the genuine trad experience.

But there is the rub. I don't think the Preserve realizes that it presides over a vanishing resource, a trad climbing area that might have allowed many future generations to experience climbing as dictated by the rock, not the drill-powered architects of convenience and conservation. Taking a page from the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, and going for a bit of melodrama, it seems to me to be just a few minutes before midnight, and the clock is ticking.
Stewart Johnson

Mountain climber
lake forest
Oct 20, 2017 - 05:49am PT

fifteen minutes from the road. don't be scared.
Gunkie

Trad climber
Valles Marineris
Oct 20, 2017 - 06:24am PT
The situation has been unfortunate for a while and isn't going to get better any time soon. In fact, the Preserve has entered into a partnership with Petzl to train people in proper placement and removal of bolts, and training sessions are being arranged through the Preserve and the Gunks Climbers Coalition to train people from other areas in anchor construction, so the bolting of various local areas, including the Gunks, is only going to accelerate.

Considering the crowds and the way climbing has evolved, some bolting in the main Gunks crags is at this point inevitable. We are never going back to the days of walking back from climbs, partially because that isn't what the modern climber does, partially because a change in parking regulations years ago forced climbers to carry their gear to the base of routes (once you have a pack at the base, you ain't gonna walk back to the Uberfall and then back to your pack), and partially because power drill technology makes bolting possible on a scale that would have been unthinkable with hand drilling.

A problem is that, from the beginning as far as I can tell, the objectives of the bolting program were not clearly articulated and there was little sense of what the unintended side-effects might be. These problems were compounded by an inability to learn from mistakes, so that long after the unintended consequences of dangerous and disruptive two-way route traffic and top-rope hogging were noted, the Preserve continued to create anchors that promoted these outcomes, while studiously avoiding any attempt to regulate the climber behaviors that also created such anchors.

When new climbers arrive, they take the situation they find in place to be both normal and desirable, which creates a demand for ever more convenience anchors. So rather than fostering a minimally invasive appreciation of the outdoors, the Preserve has followed a good part of the rest of the climbing world in viewing the environment as something to be carved and shaped to promote human recreation. Admittedly, this is a somewhat facile criticism that ignores the fact that we humans build trails and other facilities that promote outdoor recreation all the time. So it becomes a matter of degree, and my position is that the Preserve, which claims to favor the benefits of quiet contemplation of nature, is far from its own principles.

Ironically, mere usage has its own carving effects, and the symptoms of overuse due to crowding have become the most recent Preserve rationale for bolted rap stations. Trees should be protected from rappel slings and soil compaction, and eroded areas should be quarantined and allowed to recover. All this makes perfect sense, but always the solution has been a bolted anchor rather than any attempt to shape climber behavior. In the absence of Preserve action, the Gunks Climbers Coalition has tried to span the breach by launching an education campaign targeting destructive practices. It is too soon to know whether this can be effective, but as the program of an independent entity without any type of enforcement authority or responsibility, there seem to me to be natural limits to how much the GCC can do.

What is sad about the way things have turned out is that the Preserve owns the land, and so has always had the unfettered authority to determine how it will be used or misused. But, ostensibly for liability reasons, the Preserve eschewed regulation of climbing practices, and instead embraced a reactive after-the-fact cleaning up of climber messes, putting it eternally behind the usage curve.

My current view (not that anyone listens to me), is that we should admit that the game has been lost (and maybe never could have been won) and try to implement a rational approach that returns a few classic climbs to as close to pristine shape as is possible given the high level of usage. This would mean identifying some bottom-to-top classics in a range of grades, totally eliminating installed anchors on those climbs, and (gasp) banning the placement of slings on rock formations and trees on these routes. (High Exposure, for example, already meets this criterion.) Such climbs would be available solely for bottom-to-top ascents, with whatever belay anchors can be arranged from the rock and surviving vegetation, and the descents would have to be made elsewhere so that no two-way traffic is possible. Of course, the modern climbing world being what it is, "elsewhere" cannot be too inconvenient, so a reasonably-spaced set of rappel highways back to the ground would have to be established (most of these are already in place).

A sticking point of this proposal for the Preserve seems to be the need to walk along the top of the cliff to the nearest rap highway, thereby increasing cliff top traffic. I think preserving the cliff-top at the expense of the face and bottom has been a devil's bargain that now impedes what seems to me to be the last hope for holding on to a few shreds of the genuine trad experience.

But there is the rub. I don't think the Preserve realizes that it presides over a vanishing resource, a trad climbing area that might have allowed many future generations to experience climbing as dictated by the rock, not the drill-powered architects of convenience and conservation. Taking a page from the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, and going for a bit of melodrama, it seems to me to be just a few minutes before midnight, and the clock is ticking.

Work of art, rgold. BTW, I bet you, too, walked back for your pack after topping out and walking to the Uberfall along the ridge.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 20, 2017 - 06:57am PT

One nearly virgin (only 4 routes so far) multi pitch crag. Thousands more still to see to a single climbers passage. The wilderness experience is still out there and beckoning.
Alan Rubin

climber
Amherst,MA.
Oct 20, 2017 - 06:59am PT
Sadly, there is very real cause to worry at the Gunks that if you leave your pack at the base of a route and then walk back to get it after walking off the top it won't still be there.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Oct 20, 2017 - 08:25am PT
As far as I can tell Al, there is an amazingly low level of theft at the Gunks. Even with the rappelling, packs are in reality left unattended for long periods of time. One reason is that more and more climbers are enchaining routes in various ways that do not involve returning to the ground. Thefts, at least the ones I hear about either through the grapevine or on social media or places like MP, seem to me to be pretty rare. Very occasionally there has been a rash of thefts, although this is usually car break-ins, and in this case when the thieves are caught, which they usually are, it turns out to be a single small group.

As for walking along the top and back to a pack, it is actually faster than rappelling in many cases, depending on how close the route is to either the Uberfall, Radcliffe, or Roger's Escape Hatch. I've actually done the experiment, with one party rapping while I walk (not run!) back and around, and as I say, for routes that are relatively close to the descents, walking wins.
Gunkie

Trad climber
Valles Marineris
Oct 20, 2017 - 09:01am PT
As for walking along the top and back to a pack, it is actually faster than rappelling in many cases, depending on how close the route is to either the Uberfall, Radcliffe, or Roger's Escape Hatch. I've actually done the experiment, with one party rapping while I walk (not run!) back and around, and as I say, for routes that are relatively close to the descents, walking wins.

AND it's so much more pleasant, in general. I can turn off and think about things walking down whereas, if I'm rappelling, I gotta stay on top of my game and focus or die. YMMV.
Alan Rubin

climber
Amherst,MA.
Oct 20, 2017 - 09:19am PT
I've had 2 friends return to missing packs in recent years, so it obviously does happen. But I surely prefer walking back along the top in most circumstances. When it makes sense I try to 'go light' and just carry what I need for the day with me from the car and climb with it--maybe leaving a stash of liquids at the Uberfall.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Oct 20, 2017 - 09:45am PT
I own one of these but have never bothered to use it. The experiences Al mentions might help me change my mind.

duffer

Trad climber
Sonora, CA
Oct 20, 2017 - 03:38pm PT
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Oct 20, 2017 - 04:31pm PT
The crowds are killing me! To be fair, this was 2012:
Scott Thelen

Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
Oct 20, 2017 - 04:42pm PT
hamie

Social climber
Thekoots
Oct 20, 2017 - 05:43pm PT
^^^^^Good post by rgold earlier.^^^^^ Always wanted to visit the Gunks. Too late now.

I blame the guy who first started to mass produce plastic holds. Likely a millionaire by now. Good for him--bad for everyone else!
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Oct 20, 2017 - 05:55pm PT
Hamie, I'm an old grouch. It isn't too late to visit the Gunks. Weekdays are usually pretty mellow. Unpredictably, some good weekends seem to be uncrowded as well. If you're adventurous, there's a lot of crags off the beaten track. The classic stuff is still classic, and may even be worth a conga line. And its not as if the situation is different from, say, Yosemite or Boulder or the Tetons. My point is that it could be a lot better, but that doesn't mean it isn't good.
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