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steve s
Trad climber
eldo
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Jun 28, 2017 - 11:42am PT
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Buying a house can kill ya too! Just a bit different and a bit slower. To each his own. Ciao
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 28, 2017 - 01:32pm PT
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You should stop this preaching.
He was born to do this regardless to your feelings and speculations.
Go save someone that needs it.
Can you even save yourself ..........
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Jun 28, 2017 - 02:05pm PT
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I just wanted to take a break from what I do to preach to you that you should stop your preaching. Now I'll go back to my exceptional human nature and do the things I like to do (like preaching to you to stop your preaching).
I'll bet Alex is not so different. Maybe just a little humbler than I am. I like that guy, and that seems like a more exceptional Alex quality than soloing el cap.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jun 28, 2017 - 04:02pm PT
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I appreciate the responses to my post above. It's tough to stick you toe into this water, to weigh in on the meanings or reasons we climb and solo. What it is for one might not be the reasons for another.
We've all heard the theory that the most dangerous part of climbing is driving to the crag. Folks pitch it off the road all the time. Do we say, "They died doing what the love" if they were on their way to recreation? Nah, we say, "Damn, the son-of-a-bitch died too young."
In other words, driving is a risk we all shoulder, and we all accept that risk. So we don't get into the metaphysical ideas of what it means to drive, even if a friend of ours doesn't make it to the crag (or back from a radio broadcast).
It's pretty simple. People don't ever feel as alive as when they solo. Also fact, they never feel as dead as when they fall from on up high. Or as my favorite 5.10 ad simply stated, "It's not that life is short, it's that you're dead for so long."
Yeah, I miss the buddies I had who have pitched doing stupid, outrageous things. Do I wish they were still here so I could rib them about their stupidity? Hell yes. Do I wish them a different life?
Only sometimes.
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Jun 28, 2017 - 05:17pm PT
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kingtut: wow... thanks for the reminder as to why i haven't entered a church in about fifteen years. i'll refrain from doing a line by line response even though each line is pretty much as annoying as the last one. instead i'll limit myself to three responses...
Alex has pushed himself to conquer something that is fundamentally useless, it advances the human condition not one iota.
this is just factually incorrect. by this logic we should still all be crawling on our hands and knees, because every incremental step between crawling towards walking then towards running was, in and of its incremental self, fundamentally useless. ie. you're just flat out wrong on this front, as you fail to see the bigger picture and are only focused on the incremental step.
We are indulging in selfish and narcissistic ego games seeking accolades within the sphere of our own interests...fun and games, not serious biz.
what's this "we" about? who the fUck do you think you are to speak for "we"? and sorry that's all you ever got out of climbing...
Don't die being a Conquistador of the Useless.
ok. here's something i agree with. but obv not with the same interpretation as to what you've defined "useless" as being...
life is short. life is often brutal. no single one can by definition know the all. as such, follow your heart, while using your head...
as far as i've been able to gather so far, everything else is useless... [regardless of whether or not it is kingtut approved]
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Jun 28, 2017 - 06:01pm PT
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^^^^
ok. happy to have a discussion... glad you were able to take a not-so-positive, but heartfelt response in stride...
my perspective is pretty simple.
you seem to think you know what the greater "human condition" is and therefore what "advances" it or not.
i don't claim to know that.
hence i've got no position to sit in judgement of alex... or you for that matter.
only person i've got a position on is myself.
and i know there have been times in my life where free soloing has furthered who i became as a human [to be specific it at times helped me see beauty, it gave me confidence, it helped me have faith and be in the flow, it helped me learn about all facets of myself, it helped me let go, but most importantly it was the only thing that sated an inexplicable drive to climb, climb, climb...] and ironically enough, even if it wasn't intentional, it in the process furthered my ability to make a contribution to other humans.
this doesn't mean that the above is true for any/every-one else. and it doesn't mean that what alex is doing is necessarily anything specific whether that be "good", "bad", "stupid", "smart", etc. and i don't claim that the only thing that is "meaningful" is to contribute to others, as you seem to do...
my point is i really have no idea regarding what alex or any other free soloist is doing or not doing, as i'm not living out alex or any other free soloist's life, with their spirit, with their mind, or with their heart.
and neither are you.
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Jun 28, 2017 - 06:05pm PT
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The difference is simple. Honnold chose to be there and by so doing he created a work of art. I'd argue that Valentino Rossi has done the same in his career in motorcycle racing.
Also, in response to some of kingtut's earlier comments: he may be a "medical professional" but if his understanding of human genetics and heritability had been that shallow in my classroom, he might not have become one.
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drF
Trad climber
usa
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Jun 28, 2017 - 06:14pm PT
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^^^^^
KTut is off the deep end....again
Comparing rock climbing to wars and world suffering?? WTF man get a grip
Alex is a badass rock climber(athlete).
It's his craft.
It's art.
He continues to hone his skills and execute new dimensions.
Many other human being adventurers are on the same path.
I think he'd be disturbed to read Tut's posts.
Displaced angst and insecurity at a high level.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Jun 28, 2017 - 07:10pm PT
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I can't know but will just have to go with the thought that he really is that good that the moves all feel secure to him.
Although it's hard for most of us to imagine, I think this is correct. I don't think Alex perceived this climb as being particularly risky. As others have noted, he planned this climb for years and he and Tommy C. did a pretty fast ascent of the route just a couple days before the free solo. He had the route wired, marked key holds with chalk and was exceptionally well prepared. When interviewed afterwards, Alex said he could probably go back down and do the climb again right now. I don't think he was bragging--merely stating his confidence in being able to do the thing again.
Curt
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JelloFellow
climber
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Jun 29, 2017 - 10:24pm PT
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"Place your confidence in your dreams, not in your nightmares"
--Jeff Lowe, 2017 AAJ
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 30, 2017 - 01:09pm PT
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But maybe you could enlighten me as to how the human condition is enhanced by hard free solos?
Advancement of and the human spirit.
That was too easy.
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melski
Trad climber
bytheriver
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we all bow down to this young God. But we're confused how to worship him. So much talk of Death..but without it where would we be. ?? Touching the Stone. And walking the line , Good. On ya. Mate.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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I dont recall who said "There is a fine line between courageous and foolhardy." It may have been Reinhold Messner, first person to summit all the 8000 meter peaks without oxygen. He was asked during an interview with "The Alpinist," how he did it? His answer was not what many would have predicted. He said that he accomplished the feat by backing down. He stayed within his comfort zone. He lamented that many climbs he retreated from were summited successfully by "bolder" climbers. But they are dead now. Their tactic of going beyond their limits into uncharted territory, while sometimes successful, led to their eventual demise. None of them lasted long enough to tic off all the 8Ks without oxygen. But Messner's more conservative strategy of backing down when things were uncertain allowed him to survive. Instead of rolling the dice, he relyed on knowledge and skill and his own certainty and convictions. Many climbers send by rolling the dice. But their fate is uncertain. Eventually, everyones survival rate goes to zero. And for someone who climbs professionally to roll those dice is unprofessional. Eventually it leads to catastrophe. I think people like that are not professionals, they are daredevils, willing to take foolish chances in front of a camera. Weve seen all too often what eventually happens to daredevils. While it may satisfy ones purient interest to watch people do those things, its like rubbernecking at a car wreck. True professionalism is about knowing your limits and staying alive and in business another day. True professionals have responsibilities and families to care for. How can a moments cheap thrills compare to that?
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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How can a moment's cheap thrills compare to that?
I think there are many free soloists who have gotten quite good at the game, where the professional execution of that game includes staying alive. And they have different reasons for wanting or needing to stay alive - children, etc. But they also have a want or need to go out and solo.
And how do we and they resolve those conflicting needs? Especially today, I think there are people who we all rightfully admire who went out and made a mistake and died. What was the mistake?
If we like to, and often we do, we can say it was a momentary lapse in judgment, or a random error, a wisp of wind, or a breaking rock.
But we/they face that risk every time we climb. But knowing the risk, we choose to climb, we choose to face the risk, despite having a child, despite needing to not die. We could choose not to climb, but we don't choose that.
You, me, the most professional climber, the most psychologically wrong daredevil - we all make that choice. And sometimes we die for it, even the most professionally minded climbers with the most to live for.
The thing that we die for - is "it" a cheap thrill, or something else?
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WBraun
climber
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The Human Spirit was not advanced one iota by this event, it simply has no effect on the vast majority of humanity in any way.
Thousands of people are now aware of Honnoldsim.
They can now see the practical ways of transcending their own personal limitations.
They don't need to do anything dangerous to do this.
Never underestimate the power of the human spirit and every little bit helps ........
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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They can now see the practical way of transcending their own personal limitations.
I always get confused trying to get the math to work out.
Did Honnold transcend his own personal limitations? Seems to me like this was within his limitations - not beyond them.
If Honnold can do this, does that mean that I can?
What is it that changed - that has advanced? Are we now more conscious than we used to be? Did it used to be impossible for a human to solo El Cap, but now it's possible? Is our consciousness - our limitations - dependent on what humans before us have accomplished?
Were Alex's limitations - the ones that he transcended - imposed by what the humans before him have or have not accomplished? If his and our consciousness and limitations are part of us individually, what difference does what Alex did have on us?
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WBraun
climber
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I always get confused trying to get the math to work out.
You can't do gross materialism math for this such as 1+1=2
You have to transcendental math, 1+1=1 3+4= 1
Gross materialists live in a closed finite box who can't think their way out of a paper bag ......
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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What Jaybro said.
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Alex mastered his game and you did too.. or will...
S...
Not directed at O.P.
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dhayan
climber
culver city, ca
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The Human Spirit was not advanced one iota by this event, it simply has no effect on the vast majority of humanity in any way.
Hi, are you the spokesperson for The Human Spirit?
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