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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Compared to the Freerider, Moonlight is butt easy in every way - there is no comparison. Go even try to free both, you'll quickly see.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Well said. What makes it more impressive is the uncertainty, especially the psychological uncertainty - that you're not sure that you're gonna make it. You can't rely on your physical strength or talent or ability or whatever.
What's most impressive to us is that we have to create that certainty in our heads. That's what we admire - at least if he doesn't fall. If he falls he's an idiot.
Eventually, the ultimate most admirable free solo is just going to be to go play in traffic. Ha truck - missed me! Yea, I'm just that good!
We people are not quite right.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Ed wrote:
I recall John Bachar telling the tale of preparing for some solo, in Europe, and wiring the route on lead, getting every detail down. Unfortunately for John the imperceptible drag of the rope was enough to damp his swing on one dynamic move, drag that was absent on his attempt to solo the route and resulted in an injurious fall, so thin a margin. I'm pretty sure you are referring to Clever Lever, in Eldorado Canyon (Boulder, Colorado).
I agree with your main point that we can each solo at a level we are comfortable with, and Alex's level is simply a lot higher than for the rest of us.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Clint: Alex's level is simply a lot higher than for the rest of us.
Hiya Cllnt:
I'm not so sure.
Perhaps your turn of words did not quite work out for you not quite as you intended. "Simply" seems so very wrong, IMO.
It's been said that in outliers in the tails of the distribution curve, one is looking at different situations and requirements. The anomalies indicate radical qualitative differences.
I'm sensitized to non-linear systems. At some point, they go ballistic in a way that seems completely unpredictable. The classic example is threatening a dog into a corner with a rolled-up newspaper. The dog will increasingly cower until at some point that it will become totally aggressive. One pushes the variables too far, and the model then presents a new game. New situation. Different reality.
Be well,.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Sometimes extremes in a distribution are fundamentally different from the rest.
But Alex did training to incrementally increase his "envelope" until he felt this climb was within his margins of safety.
So he is not fundamentally different from what he was before.
He might be fundamentally different from some population in terms of his ability to block fear. (But I can do that when soloing at a low enough grade).
Is he fundamentally different from Dean Potter (who soloed Heaven first)?
From Peter Croft (who soloed Astroman first)?
From John Bachar (who soloed Rostrum, Butterballs, New Dimensions, etc.)?
We could pick any lower grade and there are more people who have soloed at that grade.
These people seem more similar than different to me.
But it's a value judgement, of course.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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I much prefer Auer's style. And it was ten years ago!
The cameramen leave a bad taste in my mouth.
Did you lick the cameramen?
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Clint's comment about whether Alex is fundamentally different from Bachar, etc., resonates with some of what I've been musing about in the last days, in idle moments. I remember how Bachar used to do "Half Dome days" and "El Cap days", soloing the equivalent number of pitches. So Bachar could keep his concentration going long enough to do the equivalent of Free Rider, in terms of length, if not difficulty and insecurity. Bachar also soloed at least one 13a, I believe. Free Rider has a number of ledges and stances, so it would be possible to call off the solo in many places. I believe that Alex did in fact abort one run. So, I guess what I find most remarkable this solo is the insecurity of some of the pitches or moves, more than the difficulty or the length. Soloing slabs way off the deck does seem to me to be a different ball game. I couldn't even work up the nerve to try to free the slab pitches the time I was on Free Blast!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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I guess it's true that climbers who started in the gym don't respect the old ways of doing things.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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I guess it's true that climbers who started in the gym don't respect the old ways of doing things.
I guess you never get out in the world where you have to deal with people coming out from the gym or you would never even think this. I realize it was tongue in cheek but my god, the crap gym people actually do when outside is mind boggling. And not in a good way.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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My point was you cant stereotype all "gym people".
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Burnin' Oil
Trad climber
CA
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I would love to watch all of the raw footage.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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kudos to alex for an amazing ascent that was both beautiful and brave. to walk up to el cap and climb it ropeless...what a simple and hard feat to pull off. i think this ascent ranks with tommy and kevin's dawn wall climb as the new standard of extreme climbing.
i've seen some post about the boudler problem move and a rating of 12d before a hold broke, but i thought this move closer to 12b in its original form for a tallish person(i'm 5'11") to send. i doubt the move is really 13a now if you are tall.
when sean leary and i climbed freerider in 2005, i could not even lead the first pitch off sous le toit clean. i had to rapell and clean and let stanley go to work. he cruised the pitch and i barely followed clean. then he set about leading the pitch to the roof. unlike my desparate efforts, stanley absolutely floated the pitch, with some deft stemming. he had it wired from top rope rehearsal when he was trying to send it in a day. i could see from watching stanley that for a world class climber, which he totally was, that this pitch was not that hard technically if you were dialed in as i'm sure alex was. still, i think the enduro corner was a big deal for alex, and the last crux before he got to easier (5.11d,5.12a) climbing.
steve schneider
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Burnin' Oil
Trad climber
CA
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I watched the Rock & Ice clip of Alex on the Enduro Corner. Man oh Man. Yikes.
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FredC
Gym climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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I can't let this thread go past page 1. This is a climbing forum and this is the biggest (if hard to "get") thing that has happened in climbing for a while.
Here I try to make sense of this.
I was a boulderer for many years, I would open the chalk bag and climb unencumbered and freely upward, he just climbed for longer than I did. I might have gone as much as 20' above the ground back in the day.
That doesn't really do it somehow...
Fred
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Like a bigger Indian rock... Style bump
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crazytom
climber
Maine
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H* F S*** Are there any humans anywhere in this guys league!
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