Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
|
|
|
Jun 14, 2017 - 04:18pm PT
|
So today's events?
Susan
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Jun 14, 2017 - 04:34pm PT
|
Solipsism cannot actually imply that there is just one mind. Because this mind is exposed to some (imaginary) environment, it does not have this environment under its own control. So, actually solipsism requires two kinds of minds: consciousness/awareness and a second part that is out of control. This second part is the reality. It does not matter so much if it is then tangible or intangible: It affects the conscious/aware part of that mind.
Ah, isn't pseudo-philosophy fun? Of course, it's better to be rigorous. But that's not fun, nor is it as easy as just popping off with quotes.
There is no paradox, CF. Idealistic Solipsism is internally consistent and does imply one mind without paradox. "... it does not have this environment under its own control." But of course it does. It might not realize that it does, but that is an epistemic consideration rather than a metaphysical one. The Idealistic Solipsist says, "The fact that the one mind doesn't know that it controls the 'external reality' (that it in fact creates) is entirely consistent with and even predicted by the theory."
Okay, now back to your regularly-scheduled politard "discussion" (that CF clearly has enough time on his hands to dominate).
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Jun 14, 2017 - 04:39pm PT
|
anti-sharia-demonstrators-hold-rallies-in-cities-across-the-country
So now we are coming out against religious laws, that largely have to do with personal conduct, such as the Sharia admonition about charity.
So next we will be against Jewish law, that has to do with burial practices?
Or against Catholic law, that has to do with who can have communion, and eating fish on fridays?
Or are we going to practice religious freedom?
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
|
Jun 14, 2017 - 07:04pm PT
|
Ah, isn't pseudo-philosophy fun?
Madbolter, as you're aware, I've disagreed with you from time to time, but, next time you're in Seattle, I'll be happy to buy you a beer for your post, above.
One can get way too far down the rabbit hole of philosophy, but pseudo-philosophy, and, worse, pseudo-logic is a far bigger mistake.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Jun 14, 2017 - 10:49pm PT
|
Thanks, Ghost. I'm occasionally up in the gorgeous North West, and I'll happily take you up on it.
Cheers.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Jun 15, 2017 - 08:17am PT
|
Although we finally have a Christian president again,
Trump is NOT a Christian President.
He's a show bottle (phony) Christian president that goes thru the motions when needed to give the illusion he is ......
|
|
Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
|
|
|
Jun 15, 2017 - 08:23am PT
|
Damn WB, a cogent and well articulated statement that I totally agree with. I'm stunned and impressed.
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
|
Jun 15, 2017 - 08:39am PT
|
Trump lives by Christian values, which is indeed very different than Obama.
Right on! Everybody knows Obama was a Satanist who ate white babies!!
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Jun 15, 2017 - 09:02am PT
|
Why there is no protests against those laws?
Because, thankfully, we don't live in a theocracy, and these laws are not enforced by any nation on Earth.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Jun 15, 2017 - 09:25am PT
|
^^^ I hear that quite a bit, and I'm honestly not sure what it means. So, I can't agree or disagree yet.
I mean, a large number of our founders were not Christians, and they certainly (if we care to be even minimally originalists) wanted to establish a separation between church and state (the meaning of which remains open to debate).
They accepted "Christian" moral principles, but I'm not convinced that it's because these are "Christian" moral principles, as most of them can be derived via at least a Kantian ethical theory completely apart from any appeal to any sacred texts.
And Christians believe in a moral code that goes FAR beyond what we would think of as "Christian principles" to be enshrined in law. Right? I mean, would you want to see a national Sunday law enforcing that people keep the "Christian Sabbath"? I sure hope not.
So, again, I'm just not sure what "Christian nation" really means.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Jun 15, 2017 - 10:00am PT
|
Thanks, bragman. Not to minimize your assertion, which is probably sincerely held, but I'm not "certain" that I have hands, even as I look down at them. I'm certainly not certain about Obama's religious beliefs.
|
|
StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
|
Jun 15, 2017 - 03:07pm PT
|
Trump turned up the contrast and hyperbole to 11 during his campaign so he could appear to be an "outsider". The net affect has been to drive even more partisanship. We are getting sucked into his black hole of ugly intolerance.
The more divided we are, the easier we are to manipulate. People need rely more on healthy skepticism rational thinking, not mindless obedience to rigid ideologies.
|
|
MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
|
|
|
Jun 15, 2017 - 03:28pm PT
|
Stahlbro,
That’s one way of looking at it. There are others.
I’m not for or against Trump, but from a management perspective, sometimes an organization is so dysfunctional that it takes an iconoclast to reset a culture and direction.
I admit that sometimes a medicine may do more harm than its intended effects.
As much as you want people to think for themselves (me, too), they may not for many understandable reasons. In that case (so the theory goes), you will have to lead and manipulate them. I’m not saying that Trump is that smart, but I am claiming that a leadership that may produce some result may well be a leadership that we don’t want or abhor.
Be well.
|
|
StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
|
Jun 15, 2017 - 03:52pm PT
|
Mike L,
I appreciate your perspective, but I have yet to see any positive change from this particular catalyst. Unless there is a significant change in tone, the concept of a reforming "outsider" is going to take serious credibility damage, and we will end up with the status quo again.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Jun 15, 2017 - 04:01pm PT
|
Trump should be a blessing in disguise.
America is waking up and saying OMFG WTF have done, lol.
They will say aaarrrrggggg who the fuk put these clowns in our office.
Ho maannnn .......
|
|
Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
the pitch above you
|
|
|
Jun 15, 2017 - 04:10pm PT
|
But I am certain that Obama is not a Christian.
Hah - IDGAF what religion any of these yahoos claim to be to pander to the weak minded. I'd actually prefer a proud atheist were POTUS.
However if you stack up Obama's principles and actions I'd wager he comes out pretty good compared to other POTUSes (POTUSii?) and certainly better than the present POTUS in terms following the "teachings of christ" or whatever.
|
|
Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
|
|
|
Jun 15, 2017 - 05:04pm PT
|
Look to the acts, not the words of an individual to see if they are 'Christian'. I look at Trump and see nothing Christian at all, quite the opposite; no empathy, no concern about the welfare of others, simply a huge sucking ego of me, me, me. Trump vs Obama as to religiosity? Obama in a landslide.
And what is wrong with not being a Christian? The founding fathers were mostly Diests, although that is no longer taught in school as it was when I was young. I'm not a Christian but am not a bad person because I'm not. Don't tell me I have to follow the rules of some religion I don't believe in just because you believe it's 'God's' word. I believe otherwise. That's what America is about.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Jun 15, 2017 - 05:08pm PT
|
winemaker -- "Don't tell me I have to follow the rules ..."
YOU WILL follow and do as I say!!!
YOU WILL obey!!!!
When you come to the stop light and you WILL STOP ..... :-)
|
|
Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
|
|
|
Jun 15, 2017 - 06:13pm PT
|
If you don't like religion I've saved up some extra mucous and froze it in a five gallon bucket from when I was sick last week.
Werner, Moodedrool?
|
|
Larry Nelson
Social climber
|
|
|
Jun 15, 2017 - 06:15pm PT
|
Has anyone noticed that comedians seem to be losing their sense of humor?
Their jokes are rarely haha jokes, but applaud lines to the peanut gallery that aligns politically...sigh
Edit: Bill Burr is not political, but how would this hilarious rant on Jimmy Fallon go over on today's college campuses?
[Click to View YouTube Video]
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!