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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 29, 2017 - 07:11pm PT
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Just received a book that documents a cougar attack I had. The author did a decent job with facts. After reading it, I started crying remembering the situation, and how hyper sensisitive I am to any noises now.
The one thing I will say is it is hard to stand your ground and punch a charging lion in the face.
Not looking for pity but thought it is a worthy discussion NOT focused on me.
Qball
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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May 29, 2017 - 07:31pm PT
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Charge the cougar before it charges you. Works like a charm.
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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May 29, 2017 - 07:37pm PT
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Hey Q-ball. That must have been quite an experience!! You are strong for fighting that off! I had a horrific accident that gets medieval in nature that involved a ladder situation. I can't climb up on ladders any more even though I climb. That being said...I think PTSD is the hardwiring in our brain and a little evolution. We (if you believe in evolution) started with the reptilian brain and got more complex.
I think the hardwired, hyper awareness is what allowed us to survive. I think the development of the frontal brain made us "rational". But we can't get rid of the hardwiring and that "rational" thinking makes us feel something is wrong with us but its not. We just try to rationalize it. I guess if it creeps into daily life where it shouldn't then its a problem? I can't suppress my fear of ladders or the situations that involve them.
I'm no psychologist but it is an interesting topic. I hope you can sleep well while camping. Your experience is very rare.
Cheers my friend!
S....
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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May 29, 2017 - 07:40pm PT
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Reminds me of when I was 22. And I had a 18yro girlfriend. She was goooor,,,,,,geous! She told me a story bout scuba diving in Greece when a great white came upon her and she jus patted him on the nose and he went frlocking away. That's when i fell in love..
Cheers too U 2 Q!
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - May 29, 2017 - 07:51pm PT
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Studly,
I did that and it reacted different than I expected and we ended up in a ten minute battle.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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May 29, 2017 - 07:57pm PT
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Dang, can you go into the details of the attack?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 29, 2017 - 08:00pm PT
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Q ball... What saved you..? The cat lose interest..?
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - May 29, 2017 - 08:20pm PT
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Like I said it is not a fun memory. I would have bet on the lion. Just wish someone was recording my yells.
I remember yelling, "if you want to fight, f-@ing jump you son of a bitch. Ended up with cuts but was never able to get my knife out. Hit him on the head a few times and fought it off for 400 yards till I reached my car. He was weaving around and would ambush from different directions. Not fun.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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May 29, 2017 - 09:16pm PT
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Qball, what is the books name? I would love to read it. I hike quite a lot in the summer up in higher elevations (read wilderness) and would like to read what exactly went down with your attack.
BJ, I always appreciate someone that lightens heavy situations.
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feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
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May 29, 2017 - 10:12pm PT
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Jim : PTSD was a condition, originally reserved for military combatants only. It's intended definition has spread to other sources of trauma.
Jim, It was originally diagnosed in combatants, but has probably been around since people. Two excellent therapists are Bessel van der Kolk, and Belleruth Naperstek. It was BvdK who first recognized the range of symptoms while working at a VA hospital. Both his father and uncle, in Holland, suffered from PTSS (now labeled "Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome" rather than as a disorder) Belleruth has written and produced guided imagery therapy for use by veterans with PTSS. When used with therapy, EMDR, and meditation, the alleviation of symptoms is remarkable. The symptoms, often in the form of flashbacks that mimic the physiology of the trauma state, may occasionally reappear, but the patient is given written instructions (take a deep breath for 4 heart beats. hold for 4. release for 4. hold for 4.)
I think much of the world is in trauma. And the Earth is traumatized as well. We are part of a living organism, and we are all healing together. (I still think we need to undertake a space colony, but that's just one of my dreams.)(You never know)
PTSS has identifiable characteristics, but one of the most prominent characteristics is fear of situations, people, places—often manifesting as hyper-vigilance.
Both BvdK and BN have written books, done videos, and generally make all their knowledge free to everyone as much as is possible. For anyone with PTSS, I strongly urge you to find competent help.
Now I will post this and probably find someone else has already shared this information.
ff
edit. Uh, nobody had. Now at least it is out there. :)
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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May 30, 2017 - 07:26am PT
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Q-Ball,
Congrats on your success and survival. Must’ve been quite an experience. Wow.
If the events are consciously haunting you in some form, talk to a professional. Oftentimes, the hauntings are not exactly conscious, and they might express themselves in dysfunctional ways (like avoiding spatial situations, closing up emotionally, being generally apprehensive or angry, and of course dreams). Your loved ones may see it and say something to you. It’s important to talk about it with people who know how to listen.
Although post-traumatic stress purportedly presents itself in various ways, I’d say the overall feeling one experiences is one of detachment from others in some way or another. I’d also say that the half life of the stress seems to be quite long. For Vietnam vets, the VA reported that the high point of presentations was 15 years after being in country.
For me, I found I continued to have a dream that somewhat haunted me for decades. I met a psychiatrist who later game me a commonsense interpretation that allowed me to clear my mind of it, and that was helpful. In my dream, I stood on the edge of an empty red dirt road that stretched out in both directions farther than I could see. The Vietnamese jungle was cut back away from the road by about 150 feet, and it appeared as a thick wall of green. This made me very apprehensive being alone. I had weapons, but they wouldn’t matter much in the open like that. Along came an army jeep with two soldiers who picked me up. “Jump in back,” they said, and when I did, I found a young Vietnamese girl. Somehow or another, we had sex, and I’d wake up confused, heart pounding, with an eerie surreal feeling that I was no longer in this reality even though every thing looked normal. The psychiatrist gave me a quick interpretation: life (sex) and death—they go together. Sounds stupid, I suppose, but it worked for me.
Some other behaviors (surely questionable and treatable) I’ve never quite shaken from those experiences.
Best of luck to you.
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feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
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May 30, 2017 - 07:33am PT
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Mike L, good post.
Your experiences echo others I have heard.
Yes, by all means, the key ingredient to healing from PTSS is having a good trauma therapist, preferably one well and carefully trained in trauma treatment. General counselors don't seem to do the trick. But there is a lot more wholeness at the end of the helming journey.
ff
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Guinness_Fuled_Climber
Trad climber
San Diego
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May 30, 2017 - 07:43am PT
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Hey, Q-Ball I'm sorry to hear about the experience but I am glad you were strong enough to fight it off.
I am in no way a doctor or anything but when I came back from Iraq for the second time I was able to actually help myself using mushrooms (though not intentionally), I spent the first three months back on a fifth of tequila and a handful of mushrooms a night. The change in myself was amazing and I feel like a better person, even seeing the guys from my unit is a huge difference from how they have adjusted and how I have.
I highly recommend checking out how psilocybin can help PTSD and another amazing drug I have found is good old CBD (cannabidiol) which is another daily regimen that I use and is great for chronic injuries and reducing that hyper-vigilance and anxiety.
I know that it is a hellish experience to not be able to live life as fully as others but I hope that my experience can help in some way.
Stay strong brother and hit me up if you have any questions on any of that.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 30, 2017 - 07:57am PT
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As I "understand" it, managing the manifestations of PTSD as they occur becomes the way to carry on, but it is SO much easier said than done.
Was listening to the local NPR station this morning with a story on the kids of New Orleans suffering a much greater level of PTSD than general population, and when it was said about the "fight or flight" connection, that clicked for me in regards to my own PTSD, which comes from basically living in 100% "on alert" of some level from about age of four through 20. I had to know who was where, which combinations of people surrounding me were "safe" and which ones were not safe, and pretty much had to have a clear exit strategy at all times when the perpetrator was anywhere nearby.
I can't say I will ever be able to deal well with oncoming stressful scenarios. I go straight to "fight," though it is verbal rather than physical. It gets me in trouble. People are surprised by my overreactions to what is really just them being a bullying jerk.
So, what I CAN manage is to get PLENTY of rest, and to avoid stressful scenarios when I can. That means I like to plan ahead, even for simple things like tasks than must be accomplished in the near future, and not to try to do too many tasks in any particular time frame. People "don't get" why I "seem intelligent" yet won't work a career job, but I know why - because the daily stress of deadlines, authority issues and a desire to do the best job I can(which usually requires more than a 9-5 mentality) will take me down.
I am not sure how the body memories the OP has ca be managed as they come out in daily situations, but I think a similar tactic of reducing known stressors can at least help allow the body rest time in between triggering "events."
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feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
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May 30, 2017 - 08:26am PT
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Guinness, recent studies have confirmed the efficacy of mushrooms, and the calming effects of marijuana have long been known. Self medication can be very helpful: Doug used MM for years and years.
But for Q-Ball and anyone else working through PTSS I recommend a good trauma therapist as well. The problem is finding a good trauma therapist, not just some wage-slave or bureaucrat who wants to check you off their list and get their pay. If you can't handle vetting therapists yourself, get some help in choosing a therapist. My third trauma therapist was the one who finally got through to me: I remember the first time I showed up in her office, she got up, took my hand for a minute, closed and locked the door, and turned to me and said, "This is a safe place for you." and of course it took a couple of months before I believed her, after I had been stalked and followed when Doug left, so there was no one here to protect me, either.
There was a horrible amount of trauma that started the day Doug died, and I found myself sleeping on the floor, in front of the door, clutching one of my revolvers. Every night. Waking up if the wind blew, and a pinecone falling on one of the decks would bring me upright and shaking. Funny now, but not funny then—if I'd fall asleep, I'd check my revolver when I woke up, to make sure no one had removed the bullets while I was sleeping. For the first couple of years, I though I could handle it by myself ("I'm so smart, I can cure my brain" sort of thinking).
Then one of my good friends, a psychiatrist and climber (and Intertel member) who had been observing me as I avoided people and situations, as I had nightmares almost nightly, and as flashbacks of the robberies and other events continued, and as my physical health deteriorated, finally brought dinner to me one night and she gave me a list of residential trauma treatment places, which is how I found out about Bessel van der Kolk and Belleruth Naperstek. (You can find both of these heroes on YouTube.)
Psilocybin can help PTSS from what I have read, and there are some clinical trials that demonstrate remarkable improvement with talk therapy in conjunction with the psilocybin. If you can, have a trauma therapist work with you as you heal. And have someone with you when you are using the mushrooms, if you can. Someone you can trust. I'm not so sure about alcohol, but that might be laced by my prejudice against any distilled spirits. BvdK says that most Europeans self-medicate for trauma with alcohol.
Trauma treatment recognizes the responses of fight. flight, or freeze. I definitely went into freeze, and that made treatment difficult, because I was afraid to leave the house, much less drive the car anywhere. I'm pretty much better now, seldom have flashbacks, and at least now I can move away from them a bit, recognize what is going on, and begin to pull myself out of it. Mostly, I stay away from anyone who was in involved in the robberies, threats, and psychological warfare that went on. I also stay away from situations that engender flashbacks. That I am able to function as well as I do still surprises me sometimes, and I am close to back to myself, so watch out world! :)
Like Mike L, Doug had terrible nightmares very often, and had been having them since he left the army, where he was a Ranger aviator Captain, who did two tours, flying helicopters mostly. I truly don't know how people survive the psychic rending of war, but I am glad you all have, and hope that you find peace and wellness, wholeness and joy, as you heal and move forward with your life. Nothing worse than being sabotaged from within your own mind.
I certainly cannot imagine an attack by a lion. Very happy you survived, Q-Ball, and hope the healing is entirely successful, from all the wounds, both the surface and the psychic ones.
Best of luck and Kind regards,
feralfae
ps.. I know this is a way long natter. I will practice brevity in the future. :)
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2017 - 08:47am PT
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Lynne,
The book is called "the cougar" by Paula Wild. My account is just a very small part of it. I only agreed to share the story hoping others could learn from the attack.
I have worked with big cats on three continents so, I always think I am glad this freak attack happened to me and not my friends or family.
Thanks everyone for thoughts, much appreciated but please don't make this discussion about me.
Qball
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 30, 2017 - 08:53am PT
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Self medication can be very helpful
Meditation and clean living can be more helpful.
I found a Snow Leopard track 10' from my bivy site.
Clearly, poor personal hygiene saved me. ;-)
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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May 30, 2017 - 09:03am PT
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You seem to have had quite an interesting life so far Q-ball. Stay safe diving.
I have been stalked a few times by Cougars (the four pawed kind). Not that that makes me an expert, but Studly's approach worked for me. But I was also 6'5" 200lbs and had a big backpack on. If you piss anything off enough, it'll come at you and maybe your cat had had a rough day and decided to take it out on you. Or maybe I just got lucky, hell if I know.
An interesting story popped up on NPR about kids in New Orleans. Apparently, kids from New Orleans screen positive for post-traumatic stress disorder at at much higher rates than other areas. I thought it was an interesting story, so here is the link
http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/05/30/524554109/when-schools-meet-trauma-with-understanding-not-discipline
edit; When I went to Garjagan (Indo and also known as G-Land) in the early 90's, we would commonly find tiger tracks along the beach in the morning. Locals who frequented the trails where tigers were common were wearing masks on the back of their heads, so they'd have a face on both sides and minimize the typical attack from behind. Seem to be working at the time.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2017 - 10:12am PT
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It occurred on Sheep Mountain near Woods Landing Wyo. I estimated the cat was 120 pounds and male. Very healthy and had no obvious injuries and good dentition. I was 22 and lean and mean weighing 125. So a pretty even match! I returned the next day to retrieve my binoculars and looked around the scene to try and make sense of the incident.
Very strange that the first recorded attack in Wyo occurred to me, a cat biologist, out bird watching. You CA guys need to be aware. Take care all!
Edit- Skcreidc, the one cat job I have turned down was to track man eater tigers in the Sunderbans of Bangladesh. A little over the line for me!
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 30, 2017 - 11:23am PT
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that is insane! you are a big cat specialist and that cat found you and fought you. that simply must be some kind of karma thing.....
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 30, 2017 - 11:30am PT
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Or simply that because he is in their environment so much more often than the average person, the chance of an encounter was greater.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 30, 2017 - 11:58am PT
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Them kitties don't like being outed, Q. ;-)
When you went back the next day I'm thinking you were still high on adrenaline?
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2017 - 12:19pm PT
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Reilly,
I had my pistol in hand the next day. I searched the area wondering if it had a kill. Found nothing. But was able to track it for a ways from my last sighting at my car. For some reason none of my buddies would join me, and I was a bit anxious still and left.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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May 30, 2017 - 12:39pm PT
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Guiness_Fuled_Climber: . . . I was able to actually help myself using mushrooms . . . .
I’ve heard this too. In particular, I’ve heard about funded research being done in a couple of places in the U.S. with MDMA, with supposedly impressive results.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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May 30, 2017 - 12:49pm PT
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Interesting stuff Q-Ball. And I don't blame you for not taking the "man killer" gig. My first look at a tiger paw print made me think long and hard about going out at night while there. Thing was bigger than my hand.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 30, 2017 - 01:27pm PT
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I had an experience in 1994 which gave me some insight into PTSD. My episode was caused by a single incident, and was easily treated by a professional.
I helped carry a badly mangled body down from the base of Tahquitz Rock. For several days after I kept getting that feeling you get when you drive past a bad car accident, where you keep wanting to look back to see more. Then, four days after, I was sitting in a meeting with a client. I looked up from my paperwork to ask him something and had a 100% full on hallucination. I was looking at the disfigured body of the dead man. I snapped out of it, but my client saw that something was wrong. We were friends outside of business, so I told him exactly what happened. He called his wife, a psychiatrist, I talked to her and she said "classic PTSD." She referred me to a Dr. who specialized in this.
I sat down in his office, he asked me to tell him what happened. I got in about two sentences and he stopped me. I was glossing over the details. For two hours per session he made me go through the entire experience frame by frame, pulling out of me all the details which I was repressing. It was hard, lots of tears and so forth, but when we were done I was over it.
I learned some things from this episode which affect me emotionally to this day. One, I could access the horrors I repressed with relative ease because the experience was fresh, and my case was also made easier because it was a single experience. Also, I didn't know the victim and there was no sense of guilt for me. But with this little bit of insight, I try to imagine the suffering that people – for example combat veterans – who are trying to deal with the co-mingling of many terrible experiences must endure. How awful it must be to carry the burden of a tangled web of horrible experiences, often buried for years, and often mixed with substance abuse either at the time or later in life, and guilt (survivor's guilt or otherwise.)
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 30, 2017 - 02:00pm PT
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It really helps to talk about it. Internalizeing just makes it fester. Self medication with alcohol or drugs never helps resolve anything.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 30, 2017 - 02:14pm PT
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Internalizeing just makes it fester. Self medication with alcohol or drugs never helps resolve anything.
My birth father operated a flame thrower on Okinawa. He spent the rest of his life medicating. The marriage which produced me didn't last long. The one emotional outlet for him was his stunningly beautiful singing.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2017 - 02:55pm PT
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Ksolem,
Thanks for the story and thoughts. I am still not trying to make this about me and understand many people deal with much more difficult situations.
Talking about some of my experiences helps me. Folks that know me think I have crazy stories and no emotions (or some superhero to laymen). I am a tough guy, but a heavy thinker on stuff.
Some instances that weigh heavy on me...
Struck by lightening 5 times
Avalanche
Hauling a German guys body down from 20,000
The mtn lion stuff
Divorce from an abusive spouse
Sinking a boat solo in 900 ft of water
2shark attacks
I guess I am just a mess! I got out of the high altitude stuff and stick to the rivers and jungle now.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 30, 2017 - 03:57pm PT
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Dang! That's an impressive list. Five times by lightning? That's crazy.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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May 30, 2017 - 06:45pm PT
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Been reading this post most of the day. Great question Tami...why is that some can deflect or "deal" with trauma? I work with a large population of PTSD diagnosis and there is, at least in my work a list of symptoms and conditions that meet the criteria of PTSD. There is a lot of research out there to guide one in the right direction to deal with this condition, I think it is still in its infancy with treatment.
If you think you are suffering from PTSD..... seek the right type of help, there are qualified experts, get help it's a vicious condition.
Peace
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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May 30, 2017 - 07:15pm PT
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I'm also curious about trauma that does NOT cause post traumatic stress.
Some people can experience trauma and detach from it or compartmentalize it so they don't experience the hallucinations or adrenalated state that is connected to the syndrome.
Can anybody comment on that phenomena ?
Yes, I think I can comment.
I once spent almost three full days believing I was about to be killed by Polar Bears. It was not a false belief -- one of them was within about 20 meters -- and escaping her only led to an even more desperate situation.
I've posted it here on ST (http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2727226&msg=2729094#msg2729094);.
But there was no aftermath. I can still see her, starving and protecting her baby, almost upon us. But that vision carries no horror, and has never haunted either my sleep or my waking life.
Why? Why not? What generates endless nightmares in one of us and not the other? No idea.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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May 30, 2017 - 07:17pm PT
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Really great question, Ghost.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 30, 2017 - 07:46pm PT
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I was gonna posit the same question on a variation of the theme. I think it boils down to too much Anglo Saxon blood in us.
"Oy! Keep calm and have a tipple!"
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2017 - 07:50pm PT
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Jim,
I have often wondered why some people freeze up and others go into action mode when sheet hits the fan. Everyone can talk the talk but I have always seen a very different reaction from some people when an incident occurs.
I have had both reactions.
Some incidents I have been involved in don't bother me at all, others still piss me off wondering what I should have done different. ... Be safe everyone!
Qball
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 30, 2017 - 07:58pm PT
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Well, Q, that's cause for a whole nuther thread. Coming from the military and aviation world a lot of it is just training. But, as you wonder, when you get into a situation you've not trained for I think there is a cross-over of mental coolness. I also think, having sat at the foot of a genuine swami, one can learn to quickly quiet the raging western mind and crack on! :-)
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2017 - 08:29pm PT
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Reilly,
Thanks for the thoughts. On a fun note still dealing with this....one week later...
I was fumbling with my camera after trying to get some under water trout shots... A chill went through me and I wheeled around and ended up charging out of the river at some guys dog. Both dog and hiker were terrified and ran off! It happened in an instant, but we ended up talking for a while.
My response as he looked at me funny in a black wetsuit in no mans land..." You ain't ever seen a rubber n$&@r? " He had sneaked up curious about the black thing swimming around this alpine creek. I know it is not the comment I should divulge but I speak facts. My heart was still racing.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 30, 2017 - 08:33pm PT
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HaHaHa! The trout molester! We need to talk!
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2017 - 09:24pm PT
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Reilly,
Would love to chat. Talking to folks is very important to me dealing with this.
3077607052
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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May 30, 2017 - 09:55pm PT
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Tami: I'm also curious about trauma that does NOT cause post traumatic stress.
For what it’s worth (this is technical), the initial research from the VA said that Vietnam vets’ experience that led to PTSD was “structurally different” than that of “combat fatigue” in either WWII or Korea. In contrast:
1. There were no front or back lines in the war, and that made the experience very ambiguous. As well, good people and bad people wore the same black pajamas.
2. Troops went over with their units in WWII and came back with them in toto.
3. The trip back took about 30 days in WWII, and it allowed for decompression and sharing of experiences among compadres.
4. It takes about 6 months to create a friendship. The tour in Korea took 13 months and in Vietnam 12 months; on average, you knew a person in those places for about 6 months.
5 . Vietnam was a very unpopular war among young people, so many vets were never recognized as heroes or worthy servicemen when they got back to the U.S.
6. The enemy seemed to have more commitment than we, perhaps because there was a sense of righteousness in them that we didn’t have.
7. While we had 3-day R&Rs once a year, in WWII entire units were pulled off the line and rested for as much as a month before going back into the field of combat. On the other hand, some of those units in WWII saw action all the time.
8. You flew to the country of battle in Vietnam in 17 hours, and it took as long come back home to the U.S. The transition was a very eerie experience, like some sort of transportation tube in a Science Fiction movie. Here, the regular world. There, you land in a really in the middle of a strange place where people are trying to kill you. Welcome.
I suppose that one could apply some of these dimensions “structurally” to non-combat situations, but I’m no expert. I’m just a reader.
Sorry for being long-winded about this. I didn’t have time to write more succinctly.
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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May 30, 2017 - 11:11pm PT
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Hey Q-ball. I hope talking about this is helpful.I have told my story seemingly a thousand times.
Keep talking about it....
Cheers!
S....
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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May 31, 2017 - 02:34am PT
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I really don't have anything to add to this but wanted to just chime in that I'm learning a lot from all you folks. So thanks for that.
Well, I could add Q-ball that I have been to the Sundrabans in Bangladesh and have tracked tigers there (as well as a few other places). A very special place.
I'll have to dig up some old pug mark photos from that trip if I can find them. Didn't get any closer than those 20 minute old pugs (it had just rained) so no tigers that time, but I'm sure many of the locals have PTSD/S from their experiences.
Also, I'm sure WB probably won't chime in but I've always been curious how folks in his line of work manage.
cheers
edit- From Knave below-I think you helped answer my question above, it was how I think folks deal...thanks
Point being, I guess I felt detached from the scenes, very clinical and then back to quarters. Perhaps a bit sociopathic but I put it in a box and forget about it. I guess my rationale was, didn't cause this but what can I do to help and then move on. Perhaps its all the shrooming we did as teens seriously I don't know.
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Knave
Trad climber
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May 31, 2017 - 09:13am PT
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Very interesting subject. I think that I am one of the compartmentalizers. 30 years as a medic, 20 with a fire department, myriad calls and only two breakdowns in that span. When my son was 8 months we got a call for a non breathing 8 month old, long story short, parents met the ambulance and confronted me about the outcome, couldn't tell them I just started bawling right there, had an eyelid twitch for a few days then I was ok. The second happened when I was driving home the day I retired, had a giant catarthsis cried to dehydration on that drive.
Still get flashes when around certain intersections and neighborhoods remembering this call and that, memories but no anxiety or such like others describe in there experiences. That being said it was a good career and not like War or being abused or Fighting anything with teeth and claws. Dangerous at times but like climbing, you feel in control, prepared calculating your risks and deluding a bit here and there.
Point being, I guess I felt detached from the scenes, very clinical and then back to quarters. Perhaps a bit sociopathic but I put it in a box and forget about it. I guess my rationale was, didn't cause this but what can I do to help and then move on. Perhaps its all the shrooming we did as teens seriously I don't know.
Just relating and wishing that all those that live long enough to be traumatized find a way to cope and heal.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2017 - 09:43am PT
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Thanks everyone for the info and stories!
Delhi dog, would love to hear about your time tracking tigers. That is one cat I have never worked with. My work has been with Jaguars, lions, leopards, snow leopards, and other African stuff. I am greatful for most of the memories I have dealing with these critters.
One funny story...while working in Africa...I woke up hearing something going on in the kitchen. I stumbled in ready to stomp on a house cat. I flipped the lights on while rubbing my eyes. No house cat, but a large female spotted hyena. Typical wild noises ensued by the hyena and me.
I chased it around and got it out. The commotion woke up my friend as I told him the situation was solved. We both couldn't sleep and sat at the boma outside.
He decided to call someone to chat...I was watching him walking back and forth. In the driveway...I recall him saying "I need to call you back". I looked back over and a large male lion was sitting like a dog at his feet. It's head was level with his. He backed away and the cat never moved. We both went back inside for the rest of the night!
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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May 31, 2017 - 04:01pm PT
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2017 - 02:55pm PT
Ksolem,
Thanks for the story and thoughts. I am still not trying to make this about me and understand many people deal with much more difficult situations.
Talking about some of my experiences helps me. Folks that know me think I have crazy stories and no emotions (or some superhero to laymen). I am a tough guy, but a heavy thinker on stuff.
Some instances that weigh heavy on me...
Struck by lightening 5 times
Avalanche
Hauling a German guys body down from 20,000
The mtn lion stuff
Divorce from an abusive spouse
Sinking a boat solo in 900 ft of water
2shark attacks
I guess I am just a mess! I got out of the high altitude stuff and stick to the rivers and jungle now.
The simple math show that probability that everything listed above fell on one person is exceed number of people living on the earth .
1.Struck by lightening: Five times
http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/odds.shtml
Odds of being struck in your lifetime once (Est. 80 years) 1/13,000
It mean that struck 5 times during the life for one the same person would be 1/13000x13000x13000x13000x13000. It is already more than number people on our planet
2. Sharks attack : TWO times
From 1990-99, there were 38 shark attacks on divers…. worldwide. From 2000-2009, the number was 34. (Source). About twenty percent of those attacks were fatal.
The broader shark attack numbers that just on divers are also amazingly rare. There were 79 confirmed shark attacks on humans, worldwide, in 2010 and 63 attacks in 2009. There were only 6 fatalities from shark attack in 2010 — sharks do not hunt humans and in the rare cases where they bite, then most often then move on.
The yearly average number of deaths from 2001-10 from shark attacks are 4.3 per year. (Source). The chance of a shark attack while scuba diving is almost nil.
http://www.goseewrite.com/2011/02/traveling-and-dying-the-real-risks-in-life/
interesting statistics: falling from the bad cause a lot of death as well as animal-drawn vehicle. they did not say anything about cougar-drawn vehicle.
3. Mountain lion attack : One time
http://www.topangaonline.com/nature/lionatk.html
A scientific review of records on attacks by cougars on humans in the United States and Canada from 1890 through 1990 indicated there were 53 cougar attacks on humans during this period. There were nine attacks that resulted in 10 human deaths, and 44 non-fatal attacks.
during the life span odds about 53/300 million american which roughly 1/6 000 000
If you multiply the probability of each event by one another and looks at the final results…
Well, what I can say politely , little bit of exaggeration ?
Taking aside more probable for climbers events like avalanche, abusive wife and hauling dead German[ but still rare coincidence for one person]
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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May 31, 2017 - 04:22pm PT
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
Oct 1, 2015 - 09:11pm PT
I was always on the fence about "assault rifles" until this past winter. I never saw a use for one other than killing people. That has changed. I have a feral pig problem on my farm. A high capacity magazine/clip is crucial if you want to try and kill the whole sounder.
I wish I could get a clip that holds more than 20 rounds and works with my Ruger mini-30.
I hate hate breaking my rifles across the skulls of charging hogs when I run out of ammo.
Not complaining just don't make it harder for me to kill these pests.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2694822&msg=2695209#msg2695209
You forget to add to the list 3 charging hogs
Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
May 12, 2017 - 07:56pm PT
My biggest fault is helping people that don't deserve my time. I have a soft heart and believe in all but it has kicked me in the butt several times.
...
Your biggest fault is asking people for help you are not deserve
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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May 31, 2017 - 04:37pm PT
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1.Struck by lightening: Five times
http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/odds.shtml
Odds of being struck in your lifetime once (Est. 80 years) 1/13,000
It mean that struck 5 times during the life for one the same person would be 1/13000x13000x13000x13000x13000. It is already more than number people on our planet
Not everything is reported.
As for those odds, ask Mike Gauthier. (3 times)
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 31, 2017 - 04:46pm PT
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I wish that Q-Ball attracting all of these hazards upon himself made it safer for the rest of us. But it's not a zero sum game... :-)
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2017 - 05:05pm PT
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Alexey,
I spend a lot of time outdoors. If you don't want to believe that is up to you. Two of the strikes occurred at table rock NC, the other three occurred in the Wind River Range Wyo.
The most memorable one was guiding a group up Freemont Peak in the Winds.
I don't embellish, but the history I have is not a common one. I am fully aware of that.
That is one thing that weighs heavy on me.
As my mom always says, "the older I get the more I realize how boring most people are".
Take care!
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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May 31, 2017 - 05:25pm PT
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Q- Ball,
do not kill innocent animals and people will treat you better.
And use your brain when you made up your stories. Make them more real. Like falling from the bad to the obvious death can be more thrilling than fighting with pack of hungry elephants when crossing Russian-Mongolian border
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 31, 2017 - 05:57pm PT
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Alexey, creampuff dearest, Q-ball is a modest lightweight. There's a Florida state parks ranger
who has been hit by lightning like 12 times!
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2017 - 06:00pm PT
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Alexey,
Funny you mentioned the Russia/Mongolia border... I was working in the Altai Mountains near Kosh Agach doing snow leopard research...ended up with a few Russian soldiers chasing me up a mountain to the Mongolian border.
Hate to say I never had elephants on that trip!
Qball
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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May 31, 2017 - 06:33pm PT
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state parks ranger probably did not consider that probability theory exist when he made up the his 12 Labours of Ranger [Hercules] story. Are you familiar with the math dearest Reilly ?
back to multi tasking of Q- Ball:
Aquatic Biologist/Cat biologist/Hunter/Farmer all together
Probably there is nothing strange being Hunter and Farmer as one person.
But beings Cat biologist and Lion hunter at the same time looks for me as a multi personality disorder. Plus Aquatic Biologist & Cat biologist are two different species
Aquatic Biologist
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2308344&tn=120
Maybe these experiences is what made me become an Aquatic Biologist?
cat biologist
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2980115&msg=2980269#msg2980269
Very strange that the first recorded attack in Wyo occurred to me, a cat biologist, out bird watching. You CA guys need to be aware. Take care all!
Farmer in US:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2974914&msg=2974914#msg2974914
I often have people ask me this. Most recently it was a indigenous Indian in the jungle. I replied, "my farm in Tennessee ". He seemed a bit dismayed by the quick response and lack of an adventurous story.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1501502&msg=1502567#msg1502567
We just got some rain! Been needing it for some crops we just put in. All is well out my way, 4th generation farmer/timber/miner, and proud of it.
Farmer in Southern Africa:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2662418&msg=2666911#msg2666911
Tradman,
First off, talking about farm raised... Me too. I assume you didn't farm in Southern Africa. Elephants are a huge problem around the Caprivi Strip area (Bostwana, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Zambia).
Predators also take a toll (ie lions, spotted hyenas, wild dogs, leopards).
Hunter:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2312399&msg=2312468#msg2312468
Depends on the species?
Bird hunting 0-100% depends on where and when
Lion Hunting- very low for me (not much of a lion hunter)
Bears- 50%
Feral Hogs- Illegal in Tenn!!! (we trap them over bait)
Foxes- I let neighbors hunt them (hunt being they chase the foxes on horseback and don't actually kill the fox)
Squirrels- easy to tree and find, usually just tree them because my pup (Starlette) has so much fun doing it!
All over this tread Hunter Q- Ball
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2662418&msg=2662477#msg2662477
So.... If a squirrel bounces across my lawn after leaving a protected area and I... with permits in hand shoot it, then what?
Baiting lions on hunting concessions/ private property is legal in Zimbabwe. Did he hunt in the protected area?
Because he wounded the lion and followed it for 40 hours to finish it sounds like something I would do if I had wounded a deer or elk.
What law did he break, just curious maybe I missed something.?
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2017 - 06:35pm PT
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Alexey,
I hope you are excited you have brought tears to my eyes. You can call me anything but calling me a liar is not cool. I don't know you and you don't know me. I bet you don't have the guts to stand and fight a lion, but I would do it for you.
This thread is about PTSD and now am defending myself. Take care, wish you the best.
Q
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WBraun
climber
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May 31, 2017 - 06:47pm PT
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Most make their living in an urban forest/jungle full of dangerous human animals far worse than the animals in a real forest/jungle .......
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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May 31, 2017 - 06:51pm PT
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Q- Ball, I believe part of your stories like that you are killing animals using automatic rifle and posing for the picture with your kill. I do not believe that you are biologist.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2017 - 07:05pm PT
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Alexey,
By law I have to record my kills (the pic you reposted I am proud off) I had shot 49 that February. All feral hogs that should not be in these mountains.
I don't have the time to make a list of peer reviewed scientific articles I have published.
Think what you want and start a thread that isn't dealing with PTSD. If you have half a heart, you will not try and trash me during a fragile time. ( and it is funny all my quotes sound good to me!) Guess you are just jealous of me getting out there and getting crap done.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 31, 2017 - 07:19pm PT
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Public Service Announcement
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beevee
climber
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May 31, 2017 - 07:23pm PT
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"Most make their living in an urban forest/jungle full of dangerous human animals far worse than the animals in a real forest/jungle ......."
Werner, couldn't agree more.
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beevee
climber
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May 31, 2017 - 07:26pm PT
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" ...getting out there and getting crap done ..." Loaded statement there, Q-Ball.
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John M
climber
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May 31, 2017 - 07:26pm PT
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Q-Ball... don't let Alexey get to you.
For a little lite entertainment. Your list reminds me of Hank's list of injuries and life experiences. He used to post here as Hankster, now he posts as nick danger. His stories always amaze me and crack me up. But some of them are pretty gruesome and they are all hairball. hahaha
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2017 - 08:20pm PT
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John, Somebody et al.
Thanks for the stories/thoughts. Not sure why the idiot has me so worked up. I wish he/she the best.
Take care all!
Qball
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beevee
climber
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May 31, 2017 - 10:04pm PT
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Alexey's observations are astute, and conclusions logical. On the other hand, whatever the nature, cause and extent of your psychological issues, Q-Ball, they seem complex. I hope you get professional help. You make a good case for needing it. Good luck.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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May 31, 2017 - 10:23pm PT
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beevee wrote: "Alexey's observations are astute, and conclusions logical."
no. quite the opposite actually.
Alexey's "simple math" approach is predicated on the following logical error:
that all of the events he cites [shark attacks, lightning strikes and mountain lion attacks] are all completely random events and so every person has an equally likely chance of both having and not having an event happen to them.
think about it this way: my brother regularly surfs at a spot that has had shark attacks, likely due to its proximity to livestock affected runoff.
i live on the prairie and surf maybe once every two or three years.... and i ain't good enough to surf at my bro's favourite spot.
yet by Alexey's logic both of us have the same probability of being attacked by sharks, as for all of the events in question he just bases his analysis on (events/number of humans).
within the context of his analysis, that is a terribly flawed understanding of probability.
and should, with a small amount of consideration, be understood to be transparently erroneous.
now, with that said, i ain't arguing that Alexey is necessarily wrong with his conclusion.
for example, i suspect it's possible that Q-Ball may use a liberal definition of lightning strike for example [ie. did lightning actually enter and exit your body five times? or were you within 10' of a strike, or in a grounded vehicle, etc. and etc.]
and i have to admit that just the sheer number and variety of Q-Ball's stories should, imo, make one cautiously curious, shall we say, as to their veracity.
but that doesn't mean that Alexey is being logical in his understanding of the most fundamental aspects of probability analysis and statistics in general.
with regards to that Alexey is flat out and objectively mistaken regarding the methodologies he has used to reach the conclusion that Q-Ball's stories are by definition statistically impossible.
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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May 31, 2017 - 10:29pm PT
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What is your intention for doing so?
this tread is about him no matter what he say.
I do not see any good when people sharing honestly with own traumatic experience with lying crazy f*#k with rifle who is killing animals posing with hunting trophies and calling himself biologist
ADD in the morning 6:20am june1
Tami, I was feeling from the beginning of this thread that is very wrong that people open hearts to the person which is making up stories , not honest and having confusing record .There were a lot of red flags I did see, and I supposed other do not. I regret that bumping into his trophy photo trigger me emotionally to go after him.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 31, 2017 - 10:51pm PT
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Alexy, Have you ever seen one of those gigantic ferrel hogs? They will drive you off your land. They are invasive. You probably understand the problem with invasive species in the Everglades or the Great Lakes? Do any of those animals weigh 800 pounds??
And a technicality, you called Q's rifle an automatic rifle. It is not. But Q infers that is an assault rifle which it is not. Ask any American military if they'd want to carry that rifle into combat... Better than nothing.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2017 - 11:13pm PT
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Some doctors I talk with agree that sharing stories would be good. I know you need thick skin around here. I never meant for this discussion to center around me, but it has.
Tell me what I have made up? Lied about?
I am a very private person but feel comfortable discussing stuff with you guys. If I wanted to really make you confused I would tell other stories that would blow away simple minds.
As Todd Skinner's uncle once told me,"there are no strangers in the mountains, just friends you haven't met". That is how I try and live my life,
Q
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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May 31, 2017 - 11:33pm PT
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nah000 you giving good help : “liberal definition of lightning”.Nice Invention in defense stategy. I remember similar trick was used “one bullet theory” right? Look up tread- he denied your help- it was 5 different instances of lighting.
If shark do not attack humans and if your brother regularly surfs at a spot full of shark probability that he will be kill by shark still less than he would be kill by crazy fack while driving to the ocean.
what is connections between those events [except that they conceived in the same head?]
Struck by lightening 5 times
Avalanche
Hauling a German guys body down from 20,000
The mtn lion stuff
Sinking a boat solo in 900 ft of water
2shark attacks
nah000 , what give you a base for those different events not be counted same way as we calculating probability of the rolling dice?
Most people have none of this in life time , few have one - and they are not with us anymore.
If you try to count them even “liberal way” you will find out that is not sufficient number people on earth right now to make all this occur to one individual . And it not just less, but billions time less
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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May 31, 2017 - 11:56pm PT
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hey Alexey, if i'm understanding you correctly a few quickish points:
no, i'm not "defending" Q-Ball...
from my perspective, nobody has established anything specific that requires him in need of being defended... and so i have a neutral opinion. Q-Ball, as someone I don't even know the name of, has a lot of stories to tell on the internet. i am neither convinced that all of his stories are true, nor have i been shown any specific reason that makes me believe any are necessarily false. ergo, no need to defend... and even if i wanted to defend him, i have no intimate knowledge of Q-Ball's life, so i would be the wrong person for the task.
Most people have none of this in life time: that is exactly my point. your statistical analysis is based on generalizing to a populace that generally doesn't have hardly any "adventure" in their lives... as soon as there is thunder ten miles away they scurry into a building or car... same with shark and cougar attacks. ie. regardless as to whether Q-Ball's stories are all completely 100% true and without any embellishment, you have to see that he has lived a life that makes the general population's base line of probability effectively irrelevant.
If you try to count them even “liberal way” you will find out that is not sufficient number people on earth right now to make all this occur to one individual: problem is you've made this same argument with regards to lightning. yet, it is completely accepted and there is objective proof to show that at least one individual [ Roy Sullivan ] was hit seven times. by your analysis this could not have happened by many orders of magnitude. the reason your analysis is wrong is that it is not based on a dude being a park ranger and being outside way more than the baseline population. ie. lightning is not completely random: it hits people who are outside more than it hits those that are inside. shark attacks also generally don't happen to those who don't go in the ocean, and cougar attacks generally don't happen to those who stay out of cougar country. ie. it's hard to know in instances like this what exactly the "liberal" would be. but if nothing else your lightning example shows that you are orders of magnitude off in your guesses regarding those who are actually putting themselves into these situations on a regular basis [as compared to the baseline population]...
anyway, all the best Alexey.
my hope is that we can get back to this being about PTSD...
as that was an interesting thread.
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Hmmm.... I think the term is used loosely , or casually diagnosed by non-professionals frequently. Similar to "shock"... (Low blood perfusion, not I broke my thumb and have ASR, but don't get me started.)
I've had a few traumatic experiences, internal injuries and compond fractures drug underneath a car, falling 200 feet and having the rope wrap and unwrap around my neck, falling 1800 feet unroped over 5th class terrain, avalanches, and even a bad trip (6 hits of acid right before a car rollover with injuries). Most of that is water under the bridge aside from some chronic pain associated with a few of the events.
But nothing compares to the flashbacks, chills, and pure horror of the memory from a long day climbing a few years ago. During lunch several pitches up eating PB and J sandwiches and shooting the breeze, scoping the next pitch. My partner finishes his sandwich while I'm still eating. He starts squirming around, and then undoing his leg loops. Proceeds to drop trou, calmly take his plastic sandwich bag he just emptied and push his hemorrhoids back into his ass in full view of me. So gnar. I get a little queasy still when I even look at a jar of peanut butter.
Not that cougar wrestling and stuff doesn't sound fun too.
Carry on.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2017 - 12:42am PT
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Alexey,
Why are you bumping stuff that backs up my stories? Just trying to get a rise out of folks? If so it just backs me up.
You succeeded in that. If upsetting people is your plan, you did well. I have tried to be very polite with all my posts, but I think I would slap you if we encontoured each other . Just a slap to bring you back to reality, not one that hurts.
How many FA's have never been reported? If you aske thatd about me it, it would be 100%.
Because you can't relate to my life experiences is the story of my life. I avoid social functions because someone will mention an event or story. My responses and experiences always trump theirs. I never intend for that but that is the only story I have while trying to make conversation. Sometimes the thoughts within a conversation makes me walk outside to cry.
Apologize in advance for bad grammar/spelling it is late in TN and not able to sleep.
Take care everyone. Qball
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2017 - 01:21am PT
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I am pissed off about people doubting me. That's why I am wary of talking with folks. It blows their city focused minds.
First shark attack (also my first memory) was when I was two, in Thrift Harbour BAhamas. It was a blacktip that my dad ended up fighting off by punching it several times.
Second, I was in high school free diving with friends when a decent sized reef shark hit me while trying to get a grouper out of a hole. Oh, you want to know the species of grouper, I know that too.
Some will relish in new stuff to accuse me of, but had to get that off my chest.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2017 - 02:17am PT
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An example of a conversation that causes me to avoid parties... Some guy will tell me about paying a thousand bucks to hunt hogs somewhere. I respond awesome hope you had a good time! Then I get asked if I have ever hunted pigs.
That's when I feel confused how to answer without looking like a show off. I COULD have said, "yah, shot 17 yesterday and broke my antique 25-35 on one that charged me up Peaky Mountain. My cheap Russian ammo costs about 24 cents a round, and had a few misfires. Luckily had a pistol in my truck to finish the last one off"
What comes out my mouth is, "I have! Awesome tell me more about your hunt!".
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beevee
climber
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Nah000, think of it this way: your "brother" regularly surfs at a spot that has had shark attacks (ie by a large body of open water), while simultaneously farming inland in Tennessee as well as in South Africa, constantly running around in exposed areas where lightening frequently strikes, where cats roam, feral hogs ravage (as he breaks his rifles across the skulls of charging hogs when he runs out of ammo), squirrels run up trees in fear, jungles where “indigenous Indian(s)” wander, while lugging around his laptop so that he can pump out many, many, many peer reviewed scientific articles to support his dual and disparate qualifications as an aquatic and cat biologist, as he finds time to ponder the apparent boring lives of most people. Sounds like your brother is a bustling dude. And that Alexey’s observations of your brother’s numerous self-cited activities is astute. As to the logic of his conclusions, the sheer volume of statistically improbable whip-lash inducing activities and their dire consequences do seem to spit in the face of probability.
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beevee
climber
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Q-Ball, please get some professional help if you need it. Social media is never a satisfactory substitute, especially when one is in a fragile state. One invariably draws both support and cynicism on posts -- the very nature of healthy, hearty dialog (humans spar intellectually just as cats tackle each other physically to remain agile). If you can pull from the positive support you've got on this thread, take that, nurture it and get the care you need. Good luck.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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beevee: improbable is a world of difference away from impossible.
i know Alexey's mathematical argument regarding statistical impossibility is illogical, as i've already explained.
and by your logic regarding improbability due to breadth of activity, the life i personally have lived would be a lie as well. so i know you are wrong with your argument as well.
just because something is improbable doesn't mean it is impossible.
statistical outliers happen.
none of my argument proves anything about what Q-Ball has or hasn't experienced. just like neither yours nor Alexey's does... all the best.
and F: hahahahahahahahahaha... ha!
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Personally I don't tell people a few of the very improbable things that have happened with me. I have at times, and it has sounded so far out there that listeners smile, and probably conclude to themselves that I have either an active imagination, and/or am a big liar.
Some of the incidents have witnesses, but its complicated and would be time consuming to pull it all together, simply to back up some stories. :-)
edit - am almost reluctant to post this, for fear of it being interpreted as bragging, or "another unknown avatar with possible mental health issues"! I am sure though that many of us on the Taco have had experiences that confirm real life can be more bizarre or incredible than fiction.
Fortunately, none of what's happened with me has resulted in PTSD.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Seems like Alexy is a lifelong urbanite. Yosemite isn't wilderness, and I don't doubt the veracity of Q's statements. As somebody else noted, when the frequency of activity that presents the possibility of improbable or unlikely events increases, so do the chances of occurrences. If that makes any sense. When you're living it, it happens.
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Nick Danger
Ice climber
Arvada, CO
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John M, I have only ever posted as Nick Danger, and have no idea who this Hankster individual is you speak of.
This thread started out about PTSD/PTSS, and trauma that did not result in PTSD/PTSS. Very thoughtful and informative posts when it was on topic, my heartfelt thanks to the many thoughtful posters.
I have no doubt that many of the folks who post regularly or only rarely on the Taco have led lives somewhat more interesting than the average urban dweller, and I suspect lives lived thusly are often filled with events that might be statistical outliers - mine certainly has.
Be well folks
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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^ Nick D, thanks for your /confirmation that you are not Caylor. I do wish he was back, band also appreciate your posts.
Apologies to the OP for yet another OT post. Let's back to discussion of PTSD!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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This little piggy came outta the bushes in S AZ and I thought "How cute!" Then I saw the hateful
look in her eyes. Then she came straight at me and I thought "There go my knees and/or my
privates!" She juked left about 8' from me. I'm gonna pack on my next trip down there.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2017 - 11:58am PT
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Reilly, awsome picture! Collared Peccary?
Time for me to blow your urban minds again...I was tracking a large herd of white lipped peccary in eastern HN and noticed jaguar tracks on top of the peccaries tracks. A few minutes
later, the peccary were 20 feet in front of me.
I know the jaguar was watching/thinking, god damn gringo here screwing up my hunt!
Oh... To keep you keyboard jockeys entertained...was just on the phone with Nat Geo film crew wanting to shoot footage of Lampyridae on my farm. I turned them down because the BBC has me booked to scout a separate shoot and I have to go on a dive job next week in the New River in West Virginia. Should be a simple few days of diving in clear water!
Also I got 40 acres of corn put in but the river has been to high to get the tractor across to an island I farm. Usually put in 20 acres of sunflowers, 6 of silver queen, and 5 of feed corn.
Trying to get a timber job finished, clear cutting about 60 acres mostly hardwoods, but been scouting some white pine a company is interested in.
Oh...while typing this my friend called and we were debating on when to complete a mussel survey on the Obed...then trying to figure out if 15,000 cfs is to much water for a different one on the Tennessee River.
Then an email just came in...it is some Hollywood film guy trying to become my friend so I will divulge locations of an undocumented city I found in Moskitia.
You know, just one of those days!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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That's nothin...I drink my own piss out of a martini glass...
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John M
climber
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Sorry Nick. For some reason I thought that you were that nefarious Hankster. Welcome to the Taco.
Edit: On topic. There are a number of threads on PTSD on the taco. Some have been messed up as peoples accounts have been deleted, but there is still a lot of information and stories. Quit a few people on the Taco have experienced it. I highly recommend seeing a therapist who does EMDR.
As for lightning strikes. I believe Philo has been hit 3 times. He used to post here.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2017 - 02:41pm PT
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John m,
Thanks for all your advice. I think I got set off with people questioning my life story. I don't mind being called names, but to call me a liar about situations I am seeking help for makes me mad.
I never wish many of my memories on my worst enemies. The list people keep referencing is a very abbreviated version of what I could write.
Take care all, Qball
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Great topic, interesting posts.
Nick Danger posted:
I have no doubt that many of the folks who post regularly or only rarely on the Taco have led lives somewhat more interesting than the average urban dweller.
Spot on and a reason the Taco forum is so interesting...there's always someone with knowledge or experiences that far surpasses our own.
A couple days ago I was getting puffed up to post a reply, but today after reading a few of these posts, I'm not feeling so well endowed.
Q:
Good luck to ya mate. I've known many friends who have suffered PTSD, from varying experiences and with individual outcomes.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Is Q ball
or
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2017 - 08:03pm PT
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Johnokner,
It happened in 2005, and near Laramie, not Lander. Sorry if I had typed that somewhere. When I was at UWYO we got to volunteer at the state vet lab for a class. I don't recall the details but got to help with a necropsy on a lion that came through! Pretty cool to see one up close when not fighting it!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Ah....big cats, totally fascinated with them. I've seen mountain lions twice....once at Cochise's Stronghold and again by the San Miguel river in Colorado. I have run into Bobcats in California, Colorado, Arizona and Utah.
I've seen Snow Leopard tracks twice in the Karakoram and once in the Pamirs. I even went to the Buenos Aires Wildlife Refuge in Arizona in the off chance of spotting a rare borderland Jaguar.
As the climbing fires wane I'm thinking of going to the Pantanal in Brazil to spot Jaguars and the Russian Far East for Suberian Tigers.
I'll be back on the Biafo Glacier next year....damn, I'd love to see a Snow Leopard!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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4 years removed from being in a climbing fatality I'm starting to see things creep up. Hard to describe or articulate, but yeah. I'm here.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2017 - 01:33pm PT
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GDavis,
I hate hearing that. My phone is always on if you want to chat.
Most days I am fine, but every once in a while memories of all these statistically improbable things creep up on me. One memory is bush hogging a hill and the back tire and wheel sheared off somehow and ended up rolling the tractor down the hill and into the woods.
I was rattled but fine. Called up two neighbors to help get it out with there tractors. One of them has lost a leg and his father to a tractor accident, the other has been farming for 50 years. Both were scratching their heads saying," never seen this before". Ha! Story of my life!
Stay safe!
Qball
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Q-ball...It's not too late to move into a bubble... Bubble Boi..
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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I have been lucky and blessed enough to see a Lynx twice. the first time I made eye contact. very cool!
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Whilst sitting in contemplation at the side of our house at day break, one came up along side of me not 6 feet away, and never saw me. I hissed at him, and asked him what he was doing there. He immediately slunk down and backed up out of my vision and reappeared with his mate bounding off about 50 feet away. They’re a big house cat. Very cool to see them walking off like John Travolta, dancing and walking at the same time. Cats are the very essence of cool.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2017 - 11:23pm PT
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I am Confused how this became a cat thread?
Anyways...I will join.
I was up a canyon in southern Wyo in a wilderness area hunting for shed antlers at ice-out. Crossing the river is another story... Anyways I picked up maybe a dozen elk sheds. Got them strapped to my pack.
I decided to search the next ridge over. I post holed through snow and got to the ridge beat and tired. There was no snow on this ridge and picked up a match pair of muley antlers pretty quick.
Wandering around a corner a mountain lion is staring at me with dead elk/deer at its feet. I gauge the situation and remember the quota for lions had been reached last week.
I decided to fire one round in the air (just curious of the reaction )
After firing the lion jumped on a rock, another came out from behind a juniper and the "dead elk" lifted its head... It was was momma lion with two subadults.
I laugh about what they saw me as with antlers strapped all over my pack! Just backed away and called it a day!
Q
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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the Lynx that i saw up close was huge. about the size of a german shepard it had the pointy ears and a fat stubby tail with a solid black ring and a white ring on it.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 17, 2017 - 11:28am PT
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Exposure used to be my thing. Sitting on a ledge hundreds of feet up put a smile on my face. I am terrified of heights now or at least don't get joy during the moments.
Trying to get this back on topic, PTSD.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 17, 2017 - 12:46pm PT
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Saw this through my laundry room window. I didn't get the camera fast enough for a good shot. Once or twice a year one of these beauties will come through and clean out those burrowing ground squirrels.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jun 17, 2017 - 01:15pm PT
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. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .m. .?
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 30, 2017 - 08:40pm PT
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Can we try and get this back on topic? I apologize for getting emotional but have really enjoyed many posts. I love releasing stories of rough adventures to like mined people and I am not trying to just tell stories. I thought this is a good place for that.
I want to hear both PTSD stories or events that keep you up at times.
Don't worry about me, and I will never doubt what anyone posts.
With that said, I wish Alexey the best, and hope he can keep contributing.
Take care all, Q-ball
Edit- I don't have PTSD but have several friends that do. I want to learn from anyone how to help. Using my own experiences as examples that could trigger it.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 30, 2017 - 10:27pm PT
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Talking about PTSD is fine, but I would hazard a guess that if you have it
bad you're probably not gonna talk much.
I didn't get it from having a Snow Leopard walk 10' away from me in the Pamirs.*
At least there's something that I'm one up on Donini for! ;-)
*I've also been 2' away - while I was being given a backstage tour of their
home at the Seattle Zoo. :-)
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 31, 2017 - 04:22pm PT
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Bastard...I would give a lot to see one...will probably never happen although I’ll be in their home range next year.
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Bluelens
Social climber
Pasadena and Ojai, CA
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Oct 31, 2017 - 09:35pm PT
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http://www.ptsd.va.gov
This is a great resource.
Lots of things help. There is no one treatment or way to heal.
Social support helps a lot, especially support from others who went through the same experience such as members of the same team, wreck, battle, etc.
Wounded Warrior and other veteran projects are helping by getting people together to spend time outdoors, mostly not with therapists but occasionally some therapist input is helpful.
Soldiers exposed to successive, repeated traumas have not developed PTSD symptoms until one day they did, on their fourth or fifth tour of duty. We are all human. No immunity.
Service dogs are great for anxiety.
Storytelling through theater has been helpful for vets who were not a good fit for the VA treatment programs.
Yoga is helpful. No one size fits all.
Laura, LCSW
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 19, 2017 - 10:45am PT
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Well said, xCon.
A hearty endorsement for a loving pooch, too.
Or in my case a snake. ;-)
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 19, 2017 - 11:02am PT
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Service dogs are great for anxiety.
Dogs who provide relieve for anxiety are NOT service dogs.
That said, dogs are great for anxiety.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 19, 2017 - 11:08am PT
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As far as the airlines and the TSA are concerned I believe they are.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 19, 2017 - 11:40am PT
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Frequent business travelers and at least one airline say they have noticed an uptick in the number of service dogs in aircraft cabins, raising questions for others as to whether a number of dogs that are truly pets are being passed off as service dogs.
Such fliers don't want keep their dogs in a carrier case in the cabin or aim to avoid paying a fee for their pets, says Jeanne Hampl of the Assistance Dog Club of Puget Sound in Gig Harbor, Wash.
"There's so much fraud out there," says Hampl, secretary of the club, which helps members train service animals. "People do it all the time — say it's a service dog when it's not — and create so many access problems for people with legitimate service animals."
According to the regulations, passengers are permitted to board a flight with a service dog — other than one for emotional or psychiatric support — by presenting an airline with written documentation or providing "credible verbal assurances" that the dog is needed for a disability.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2014/08/03/fliers-scam-airlines-pets-service-dogs/13325733/
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 19, 2017 - 11:49am PT
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I know, Ken, but most airlines are pretty lax and understanding as long as
yer dog isn't a St Bernard. We have a friend who flies regularly with her
'anxiety' dog without probs. I'd sure rather be seated nearby them than
most other people. ;-)
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