Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 19, 2017 - 05:36pm PT
|
DMT, two of the armed Turkish security guards were detained by the DC police, then immediately released when the had diplomatic immunity. Just before the security detail attacked, one spoke to Erdogan. The posters were peaceful. The DC cops were completel caught off guard, and they are pissed at the Turks. Maybe Drump won't do anything about a foriegn power attacking US citizens in the US, but local cops should refuse to protect Turkish diplomats in DC and NY.
|
|
kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
|
|
|
May 19, 2017 - 05:47pm PT
|
Roger, see this story about diplomatic immunity and the DC assaults:
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2017-05-17/erdogan-guards-might-not-have-immunity-to-beat-protesters-in-us
Four international law experts, three of them former legal advisers at the State Department, tell U.S. News that if police identify the assailants, they may be able to make criminal charges stick, even if the men are on the Turkish government payroll....
...Georgetown University law professor David Stewart, a former assistant legal adviser for diplomatic law and litigation in the State Department, also could imagine charges against Erdogan guards under certain circumstances.
“You don’t get immunity just because you claim it. You don’t get immunity just because you say, ‘I’m with the big guy.’ You don’t get immunity just because you say, ‘My passport says I’m important, I have a diplomatic passport,'” he says.
“You get immunity if you are accepted by the government in a certain status that entitles you to that immunity," he says, "and that’s typically a question of law – for example, under the Vienna Convention or our notion of international law.”
Stewart says “this isn’t just a question of abstract principles,” but rather a highly fact-specific question of law.
“The government is now trying to figure out, I’m sure, 'What are the factual circumstances here? Who gets what immunity?'” he says. “I can only imagine they’ve been doing it all day.”
Stewart agrees with Weiner that embassy staff likely are immune from prosecution if they have diplomatic accreditation with the State Department. But he says “it is possible” members of Erdogan’s traveling entourage would have customary immunity if their names were provided in advance to the State Department.
“Of course, you can imagine charges being filed,” Stewart says. “If these guys busted through the police line and beat up protesters, that’s a criminal offense. That’s an assault.”
“I would go so far as to say I would expect charges to be brought,” he adds. “Charges can be brought. The prosecutor would say, ‘We’re bringing these charges.’ The answer would be these guys are immune or they are not immune.”
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
May 19, 2017 - 05:52pm PT
|
The prosecutor would say, ‘We’re bringing these charges.
Nothing will happen at all.
Erdogan already told Trump he'll kick him in the balls if he tries to do anything about this.
Then the pussy Trump melted back into his hairdoo.
But Chuck Norris would have given the looser Erdogan a wicked roundhouse to the head for running his stoopid mouth ....
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
May 19, 2017 - 05:53pm PT
|
A London police officer was shot and killed by a Libyan embassy security guard who claimed diplomatic immunity and was allowed to leave the U.K.
That's a long ways from giving the shoe leather to someone who was already down.
|
|
Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
|
|
|
May 19, 2017 - 09:20pm PT
|
I know plenty of people with dip passports.
Very few of them have "diplomatic immunity".
The ones that do need to.
|
|
two-shoes
Trad climber
Auberry, CA
|
|
|
May 20, 2017 - 12:18pm PT
|
These protesters need their own god-damned militia!! The trouble is, the cops would probably kill all the protester first then let Erdogan's goons go scot free. It's no wonder that Erdogan is the 45th's buddy. This, too, pisses me off watching it. Trump probably watched it over and over while giggling! The ripe bastard that he is!
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
May 20, 2017 - 02:02pm PT
|
Why might Europe be soft on Turkey?
1. Want a EU member to absorb more of the refugee influx
2 Want access to oil pipelines that don't make them wholly dependent on Russia
That's kind of a weak negotiating position from which to demand human rights.
Why might USA be soft on Turkey? This might be one reason:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incirlik_Air_Base
Slight pivot... the yellow stars on this map are airfields from which USA military operates in the region... might give some perspective and reality check for how much money our military spends, and whether you consider this a defensive posture or trying to control the world posture:
What would the USA say about Russia if it was operating in 40+ bases around Canada and Mexico and Caribbean and performing aggressive "exercises" around the coffee and coca leaf and oil production in South America and the shale oil in Canada?
So when you really look at what the USA is in the world, from what position of moral authority do we have a right to speak? We put our boot on the necks of millions of people around the world. Well not directly, because we are sneaky enough to do it by supporting the tyrants who give us what we want, without regard to what it costs the people under their control. And if they won't give us what we want, we will make war if necessary or replace them through other means. Maybe we deserve Trump because his personality is a more accurate reflection of what we are as a country. Rip off the scab, let the abscess start to heal? Maybe all the emotional backlash against him is in part driven by the self-loathing of so many people (myself included) who want to be good and nice but have a hard time giving up the nice life and oil addiction that is made possible by the outsourced exploitation.
It's sort of like people who like to eat meat but protest animal slaughter. Maybe in the final analysis, Trump supporters can claim the higher moral ground because they at least are honest with themselves about taking what they want in the world, rather than having a guilty and apologetic smile to the victims, with furtive outreached hand to accept what the bullies have taken from them.
|
|
guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
|
|
|
May 22, 2017 - 10:16am PT
|
That poses the great political question of the century:
If Russia ever invades Turkey from the rear, will Greece help?
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
May 26, 2017 - 07:19am PT
|
No one ever looks good in a fight - I saw a lot of them in my time working in bars - but these Turks raising hell in their Armanis and Guccis are certainly the best dressed I've seen since five guys wearing matching bowling shirts all rat-packed some dude who pissed one of them off.
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
|
|
|
May 26, 2017 - 01:10pm PT
|
Greece might help but the reach around most definitely...
|
|
kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
|
|
|
Jun 16, 2017 - 01:17pm PT
|
From the Washington DC Municipal Police Department:
https://mpdc.dc.gov/release/suspects-sought-multiple-assaults-outside-turkish-embassy
Suspects Sought in Multiple Assaults Outside Turkish Embassy
Thursday, June 15, 2017
An additional fourteen individuals have outstanding warrants for their arrests and are identified below.
• Turgut Akar, a Turkish security official, charged with misdemeanor Assault or Threatened Assault in a Menacing Manner
• Ismail Dalkiran, a Turkish security official, charged with misdemeanor Assault or Threatened Assault in a Menacing Manner
• Servet Erkan, a Turkish security official, charged with felony Assault with Significant Bodily Injury and misdemeanor Assault or Threatened Assault in a Menacing Manner
• Tugay Erkan, a Turkish security official, charged with felony Assault with Significant Bodily Injury and misdemeanor Assault or Threatened Assault in a Menacing Manner
• Ahmet Karabay, a Turkish security official, charged with misdemeanor Assault or Threatened Assault in a Menacing Manner
• Feride Kayasan, a Turkish security official, charged with misdemeanor Assault or Threatened Assault in a Menacing Manner
• Lutfu Kutluca, a Turkish security official, charged with misdemeanor Assault or Threatened Assault in a Menacing Manner
• Mustafa Murat Sumercan, a Turkish security official, charged with felony Assault with Significant Bodily Injury and misdemeanor Assault or Threatened Assault in a Menacing Manner
• Gokhan Yildirim, a Turkish security official, charged with felony Assault with Significant Bodily Injury
• Ismail Ergunduz, a Turkish security official, charged with felony Assault with Significant Bodily Injury and misdemeanor Assault or Threatened Assault in a Menacing Manner
• Mehmet Sarman, a Turkish security official, charged with felony Aggravated Assault and misdemeanor Assault or Threatened Assault in a Menacing Manner
• Hamza Yurteri, a Turkish security official, charged with felony Aggravated Assault and misdemeanor Assault or Threatened Assault in a Menacing Manner
• Mahmut Sami Ellialti, charged with felony Aggravated Assault and felony Assault with Significant Bodily Injury
• Ahmet Cengizham Dereci, charged with felony Assault with Significant Bodily Injury and misdemeanor Assault or Threatened Assault in a Menacing Manner
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!