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climbfar1
Sport climber
Littleton
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 23, 2017 - 09:44am PT
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I have recently been diagnosed with prostate cancer. To treat it I have decided to have my prostate removed. Has anyone out there been in a similar situation and been able to resume climbing afterwards? If so, has anything changed for you, specifically I am worried about continence issues. Thanks for any info.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Mar 23, 2017 - 09:58am PT
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a loved one underwent prostatectomy and is still very active. best of luck!
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Mar 23, 2017 - 10:06am PT
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No experience with this, thank God.
Best of luck to you.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Mar 23, 2017 - 10:21am PT
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Had a couple of buddies in a similar situation and they're fine.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Mar 23, 2017 - 11:33am PT
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first post, anonymous?
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climbfar1
Sport climber
Littleton
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 23, 2017 - 01:46pm PT
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Yep, I wish this weren't the reason I was reaching out to a wide climbing community base.
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Stimbo
Trad climber
Crowley Lake
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Mar 23, 2017 - 02:27pm PT
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PM me....
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Mar 23, 2017 - 02:30pm PT
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Hang in there dude.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Mar 23, 2017 - 02:55pm PT
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Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
With the removal of the prostate, you're probably going to have issues with incontinence, and impotence.
The question on the side effects is, how long, and to what degree?
I just started climbing again, and I suck, but that probably has nothing to do with the surgery.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Mar 23, 2017 - 02:58pm PT
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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Mar 23, 2017 - 03:59pm PT
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Best of luck to you!
And what Zip says in his pic!
Susan
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Mar 23, 2017 - 04:03pm PT
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Susan is bulletproof, except for funky pedals on high end mountain bikes.
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Stimbo
Trad climber
Crowley Lake
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Mar 23, 2017 - 08:59pm PT
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Planning my escape from Loma Linda sans prostate. What you cannot see under the wonderful gown is a Foley catheter, my constant companion for a couple of weeks. Then it was a month after that with adult diapers until all of the Kegel exercises started working. That photo was taken just over two years ago and so far so good.....
I had quit climbing before the surgery but I can say with certainty that you will not have any physical limitations or issues with continence. I wish you luck, cancer sucks! Get it done. If you have any other questions feel free to contact me.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Mar 23, 2017 - 09:12pm PT
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What a stud..!!
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Stimbo
Trad climber
Crowley Lake
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Mar 23, 2017 - 09:21pm PT
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What a stud..!!
You should have seen me dragging around that urostomy sac thru the sagebrush on my daily walks. That tubing snags on everything.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Mar 23, 2017 - 09:54pm PT
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Could radiation or chemo help without the knife???
Whatever happens, best of luck to you!
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climbfar1
Sport climber
Littleton
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 24, 2017 - 04:36am PT
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Thanks Zip and Stimbo for sharing your stories.
SteveW, I am in my early 50s and the cancer has been diagnosed as localized, so I feel more confident in surgery.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Mar 24, 2017 - 06:25am PT
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Maybe Donini and his radioactive balls, will weigh in on this as well....
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Mar 24, 2017 - 08:55am PT
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Zip: With the removal of the prostate, you're probably going to have issues with incontinence, and impotence.
Men don’t have to have their prostate removed to experience these issues.
Cancer is another indication you’re living.
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jstan
climber
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Mar 24, 2017 - 11:50am PT
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Surgeons tend to advise surgery and radiation people tend to advise radiation. Treatments for this cancer have improved immensely over the last twenty years. My understanding is that the problem tends at first to arise from cell mutations that are promoted by testosterone levels. If you survive the first onset, later problems may be due to a testosterone independent variety. Some professionals denigrate the value of PSA tests as leading to excessive treatment. Possibly, but PSA tests are a simple blood test and they form the data needed to track the condition and decide on later treatment.
In the mid 90's when radiation was in an early state of development Intel's Andy Grove used his own abilities to improve the use of implanted radioactive seeds. His cause of death has not been reported. The article is still worth reading IMO.
http://www.phoenix5.org/articles/Fortune96Grove.html
Death due to prostate is reported to involve such severe weakening of the bone a hand shake can cause a broken arm. These reports suggest to me that worrying over incontinence suffers from misplaced priority. Not a good way to go.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 26, 2017 - 09:34pm PT
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Jstan is right on the money. That was precisely my experience. I opted for for radioactive seed implants at the Hunstman Cancer Center in SLC ( highly recommended) and was climbing the Nose in a single push a month later. My last PSA was .2. I have had minimal side effects.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Mar 26, 2017 - 09:46pm PT
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I'm a physician, and for removal of body parts, where other options exist, I always recommend a second opinion from an academic center.
There is always a bias in favor of what a particular surgeon does the most...and it may or may not be the right thing for you.
You really want the opinion of someone who handles a LOT of these cases, and is very well thought of.
Don't be rushed into a decision. It's been there awhile, and you want to get it right.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Mar 27, 2017 - 06:31am PT
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Interesting article, MikeL. One quote stands out for me:
For example, the authors believe that far more research into early detection strategies is needed.
This sounds good, of course, but early detection is not an unqualified good. In breast cancer, for example, many "cancers" are detected early and treated when, in fact, they would have been taken care of by the body itself. The dangers of over-treatment are real. We know, too, that in older men, treating prostate cancer can be a mistake because the cancer can be very slow growing and not a problem. Each case needs to be carefully weighed on its own merits. Doctors get excited about finding the problem and cutting it out when sometimes the best course of action is to let our own bodies do the work. The old cliche of the hammer seeing everything as a nail is worth considering.
BAd
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Mar 27, 2017 - 07:54am PT
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Ken M +1
Bad Climber:
Ken M will probably correct me, but I’m under the impression that a healthy immune system is the best medicine that one can rely upon. (And I greatly favor that “old cliche” that you referred to in the field of management, also.)
My father lived for 16 years with prostate cancer, and finally succumbed to repercussions from radiation therapy over the years. I’ve had radiation therapy (and chemo) for throat cancer, and the effects are with me almost every hour (compromised salivary glands).
It’s been a real change in medical consultation / advise these days versus when I was a kid. It used to be the doctor told you what you were supposed to do or what needed to get done. These days I get what almost amounts to a literature review on issues relating to diagnosis and therapy from my doctors. Now I’m expected to be making the decision, and most often I am expected to understand the medicine. More than once I’ve been happy that I actually know about science and how it gets done. No slam intended against medicine, but having naive subjects make their own technical decisions seems problematic to me. When the client MUST be involved in significant implementation, it seems they must be a part of the solution. The technical side of medicine, . . . well, I’m not so sure it’s the same thing. Maybe it is. I guess we should thank goodness for the web. Makes for a lot of reading, doesn’t it?
Er, . . . be well.
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cornel
climber
Lake Tahoe, Nevada
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Mar 27, 2017 - 11:04am PT
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Climbfar, sorry to hear about your diagnosis, I do appreciate your dilemma. having been down that road, diagnosed 20+ yrs ago with prostate cancer. My decision was to forgo any
type of invasive treatment. I choose yoga therapy, an organic vegetarian diet supplemented with herbs instead. Today at 67 I am happy to report am in excellent health free of malignancy. Powerful urine flow and just as important wonderful control. No dribbling or intense constant need to urinate. My maintaince program today includes staying very fit, yoga, and taking an array of herbs, natural anti-inflammatory formulations such as Prostate Revive from Medix Select being a critical one. My diet is primarily Ketogenic too with large amounts of raw organic vegetables.
When first diagnosed I dropped sugar, caffeine, and alcohol for a couple of years. Today I use them in moderation except coffee ( big cup or 2 am).
I would strongly urge truly considering the exploration of All your options for treatment. Do some independent research on your own. For example check out Dr Johannes Budwig and her dietary guidelines for cancer. The AMA is not your friend.
Oh yes and Set the stage for complete recovery by doing a total cleanse.. your body will heal itself if given a chance..
This health crisis is really just an opportunity to improve your diet and lifestyle.
Send it dude! It goes!
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lars johansen
Trad climber
West Marin, CA
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Mar 27, 2017 - 02:13pm PT
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Six years ago I was diagnosed with prostate cancer. After a biopsy my urologist recommended a prostatectomy. He said," if you were my brother that's what I would recommend". My brother in law and next door neighbor both had radioactive seeds implanted around the same time. Both have had relapses requiring additional treatment. I was concerned about side effects like impotence and incontinence. Thanks to the "little blue pill" and daily kegel exercises neither have been a problem. A year after my surgery I climbed the FA of "Patriot Act"on Liberty Cap with my close friends Steve Bosque and Josh Mucci. Good Luck!-lars
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climbfar1
Sport climber
Littleton
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 27, 2017 - 07:53pm PT
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Lars, it's comforting to know someone who has been thru the surgery and able to get back to climbing.
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climbfar1
Sport climber
Littleton
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2017 - 05:59am PT
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I have surgery planned for April 24th. Hopefully after healing time I can start climbing again. I would love to be as ambitious in doing an FA in Yosemite or anywhere else for that matter but would be esctatic just to be on rock. I've been out at Yosemite a couple of times and barely put a dent on my tick list. Perhaps we can meet in the future Lars. You are an inspiration.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Good luck, climbfar. You'll kill it.
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lars johansen
Trad climber
West Marin, CA
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Best of luck! I just sent you a PM-lars
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climbfar1
Sport climber
Littleton
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2017 - 10:27am PT
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PM'ing me doesn't seem to work. I've tried testing the PM function to myself without luck. Checked my spam folder ... no luck. I've inquired with Super Topo. Anyone else have this issue?
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Best of luck to you, Climbfar! Report back on your quick and full recovery.
BAd
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lars johansen
Trad climber
West Marin, CA
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Hmmm. I don't really want to publish my email or phone # on a public forum. I hope C Mac can resolve this asap.In the meantime I'll try to send you another one. Maybe I bozoed the first one.-lars
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cornel
climber
Lake Tahoe, Nevada
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healyje, Its fascinating to know ones genetic history and hence the probabilities of future health issues, prostate being one. Yes Science will certainly continue to discover more and more exciting details regarding all aspects of cancer. That's what science does. Scientific inquiry has no end because There is no end. It is infinite. Yet if a Proven Successful Treatment Regimen already exists why not cut to the chase and accelerate ones healing.? May I suggest obtaining a copy of the DVD Surviving Prostate Cancer produced by Peter Starr. It interviews 56 different Doctors (43 MDs + 6 PHD researchers as well as 6 Naturopathic Doctors in 8 different countries and 3 different continents. A total of 3 DVDs.
The findings are, It is completely and utterly unnecessary to undergoe surgery, utilize drugs or radiation to heal prostate cancer... My regime which I described early works... not just for me...
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cornel
climber
Lake Tahoe, Nevada
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Wow! Another Nickname you have have undoubtedly added an immeasurable contribution to this discussion! Thank you! Thank you for sharing...
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Let's not forget that science is based upon generalizations. What we can say that we know in our fields depends upon the data that we study.
There are many fields of study that focus not on what is generalizable but what is extraordinary. There is no science that focuses on outliers.
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climbfar1
Sport climber
Littleton
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2017 - 05:53am PT
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Lars, I have reached out to super topo. I am confident they will be able to resolve.
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climbfar1
Sport climber
Littleton
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2017 - 09:02am PT
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So I guess this isn't an easy problem to address. This is what I received in response to the PM issues...
We are aware that many people experience this problem. Unfortunately there is no easy fix for the problem. It would require rebuilding the server. This may be a possibility in the future but for now all I can recommend is you continue to try but don't rely on it. Some message seem to get through even if most don't. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
----
Lars, and anyone else you can reach out to me with my email climbfar@yahoo.com
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cornel
climber
Lake Tahoe, Nevada
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Have another cocktail another nickname you got it goin on... now..
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jstan
climber
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Apr 11, 2017 - 11:57am PT
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From the cases with which I happen to be familiar in radical surgery the surgeon walks a fine line. Take too much and there is increased risk of incontinence. Take too little and risk of relapse increases. During the operation stain tests of the margin are made looking for missed cancerous tissue. Waiting till PSA gets into the twenties may not be a good idea.
Better radiation procedures and much more precise radiation targeting have allowed improvement of outcomes for that option during the last twenty years. We are waiting Jim's post when he reaches thirty years post op. That treatment used to be a little
sketchy.
Would be useful to hear what got Andy Grove. He was ahead of the curve in the mid nineties. On the other hand in the mid nineties John's Hopkins was developing a surgical process that allowed retention of a quite different male function. One that is, after all, not generally used late in life.
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Gimp
Trad climber
Missoula, MT & "Pourland", OR
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My life changed irrevocably on Feb 7, 2018 when my PSA came back at 173. I am a 66 year old lifelong weekender and physician/hand surgeon (which makes my errors in my own care all the more unforgivable in my mind). I am nothing special as a climber or skier but have done both for over 40 years with varying intensity. Climbing and backpacking has taken me to South American, Alaska, Tibet, Nepal, Greenland, Iceland, and Tasmania plus many areas in the US and Canada. 10 days before my blood work came back I had climbed 6 separate waterfall ice routes in Hyalite by 3 after a late start, that morning I had skied (only wish the conditions had been more memorable), and was supposed to climb the next day with my son. I had not had my PSA checked in almost 6 years and had not had a digital rectal exam in 3-4 years. My changes in urination had been going on for a year or two.
I have non-surgically treatable extracapsular disease with distant lymph node metastasis. The most impressive thing to me was how bad my CT scan looks in the face of how I felt and my activity level. (Bottom line is you don’t have a clue what is going on inside) I am currently being treated with androgen deprivation and chemotherapy. Later I will receive maximal dose external beam radiation. Given my staging my 5 year survival is projected at 29%.
I got my own PSA at a free standing lab because of my symptoms.
My sole purpose in writing this is not for sympathy but to advocate for annual PSA test for all men over 50 (maybe earlier if you have a bad family history). The current rhetoric about PSA is driven by application of herd health principles which increasingly are becoming the driving force in how medicine is practiced largely for cost containment. I would argue that it is fine for you to accept this a how you want to be cared for if you are willing to accept paying the cost for being in the tail area of the bell shaped curve. Some overtreatment IMO is far better than being the outlier that will not be caught by the algorithm. The price of a PSA test is trivial in the big picture and one that you should readily be willing to pay for on your own. Hell I would have paid for it every 6 months after 60 in retrospect!
Some stats worth knowing are:
AVERAGE age at diagnosis 66 years (so no quite the “old man” disease the cost containment propaganda likes to state)
1 in 9 men will be diagnosed with prostate cancer in their lifetime, many will be low grade amendable to monitoring or less drastic treatment.
29,430 men die of prostate cancer annually in the United States
170,000 new cases annually.
My final thought is that three of my brother-in-laws are major executives in multi-national corporations (all with C!! something or other titles) who have had corporate ordered annual physicals since there 40’s when they moved up to the higher levels of management. A PSA has always been part of their annual exam as I am sure it is for all our congressmen etc. If this is part of the annual exam for “important” people then is should be part of your annual health evaluation because even though the elites may consider you a serf you should consider yourself important.
Don’t make the same mistake I made.
Steve
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jstan
climber
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Zip:
Been a year since your last post. We are due an update.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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If this is part of the annual exam for “important” people then is should be part of your annual health evaluation because even though the elites may consider you a serf you should consider yourself important.
Well said. Best of luck going forward.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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Mostly from experience: A relatively young urologist who I know believes that the science and practice of treating prostate cancer may change considerably over the next few decades. We're over-diagnosing and over-treating it.
1. Virtually all older men have 'abnormal' cells in their prostate. The older you are, the more likely. If you're over 60, likely, over 80, very likely. (Bearing in mind that our bodies are full of abnormal cells, most of which get dealt with by internal mechanisms.) The older you are, the more likely that you are to have an enlarged prostate, and abnormal cells therein, and the cells to be multiplying if not spreading.
2. There's a lot of different types of abnormal cells. Whether they will become a problem depends partly but not entirely on just how abnormal they are. It also depends on how long you live, and factors that aren't well understood.
3. The prostate specific antigen (PSA) test is still useful information, albeit indicative rather than conclusive. The higher the number, the more likely it is that you have an enlarged prostate, or prostate cancer of some kind.
4. Prostate biopsies are a necessary part of diagnosis. Again, they're not conclusive - they take tiny samples from ten different zones in something that's larger.
5. The digital rectal exam is a necessary indignity for men over 50, as part of their annual physical. Again, indicative rather than conclusive, but if you have a large and/or firm prostate, not good.
6. The lab or scientist who invents a test that more accurately diagnoses prostate cancer is going to make a lot of money.
7. Active surveillance is one treatment option those afflicted should discuss with their physician.
As I saw with a friend this spring, who was otherwise in fine health, dying of prostate cancer is not a good way to go. If it spreads, it probably spreads to your bones, and hurts like hell.
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jstan
climber
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I and my two siblings had an issue with PC, as did an uncle who succumbed to this malady. In making my decision I said to myself. "I know this is not serious and it will all turn out OK, But what will I say to myself if it does not?" I decided to let the deil take the hindmost and went all out, so to speak. Now 22 years post op with undetectable PSA I still have to recognize cancer is not something that ever goes away entirely. Medical technology for this disease is advancing apace so one's long term strategy has to be to try and be around to benefit.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Abstract
The process of programmed cell death, or apoptosis, is generally characterized by distinct morphological characteristics and energy-dependent biochemical mechanisms. Apoptosis is considered a vital component of various processes including normal cell turnover, proper development and functioning of the immune system, hormone-dependent atrophy, embryonic development and chemical-induced cell death. Inappropriate apoptosis (either too little or too much) is a factor in many human conditions including neurodegenerative diseases, ischemic damage, autoimmune disorders and many types of cancer.
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Jeff Gorris
climber
Not from Portlandia
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I hear they needle the sh#t out of yours before they diagnois you... Three biopsies, one MRI, + one MDx ConfirmMDx later, still negative for now.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Prostate biopsies are a necessary part of diagnosis
And 1-2% result in infections! A friend just went septic overnight from his!
He has been discharged but the ER doc told him he came in none too soon.
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Gimp
Trad climber
Missoula, MT & "Pourland", OR
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Dec 11, 2018 - 01:35pm PT
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Good bone health may help control/delay metastasis.
Lots of controversy however in this regard.
Steve
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jstan
climber
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Dec 11, 2018 - 06:16pm PT
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Not an MD but I am using a concoction of Ca and vitamin D called "Bone-up". Had read Ca supplements with no Vit D can allow Ca decoration in the circulatory system. Another 50 years before we know better.
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