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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 11, 2018 - 06:06pm PT
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I worked on avionics with the EA-6B detachment in 79-80 in Iwakuni Japan. They were fairly new, very capable aircraft. We had Phantoms on the other end of the field, badazz plane. I will never forget seeing the F-4 Screaming Eagle Phantom do a low level high speed pass at an airshow in 77. I think it traveled with the Blue Angels
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Nov 11, 2018 - 06:26pm PT
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Bring back the draft Nope. Very bad idea.
The military is not a social experiment.
The military is not there to teach people social lessons.
The military is not there to teach people citizenship.
The military is there for combat. Period.
Dilute the fighting force with people who don't want to be there?
Nope. Very bad idea. I don't want them in my unit.
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Nov 11, 2018 - 06:30pm PT
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Meh? I figured not enough skin in the game...
Multiple deployments are taking their toll.
I don't want a fignt. It seems that the draft helped end a war.
Sincerely, peace. Thank for your service, never forget, and welcome home.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 11, 2018 - 06:32pm PT
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Was low on the S Face of Denali when we thought that Denali had erupted. Two AF Phantoms
came over Denali Pass (? the one at the head of the NE Fork) and hit the burners!
By the time they turned the corner and headed down the Kahiltna at about 1000’ AGL they
had to be pushing 500 kts. Ho Lee Phuk was that loud! And talk about air polution!
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Nov 11, 2018 - 06:49pm PT
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Multiple deployments are taking their toll.
That's because there have been too many Republican presidents engaging in foreign policy that antagonizes people around the world and creating large numbers of enemy combatants.
We do not need to be throwing more of our soldiers into the meat grinder. We need to change foreign policy.
pushing 500 kts 500 kts is not a common speed for that sort of thing, especially for Phantoms. 600 is more likely. Was there a sonic boom? That puts the speed up around 650-700.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Nov 12, 2018 - 06:18am PT
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The echoes of that war are still reverberating today.
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Barbarian
climber
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Nov 12, 2018 - 07:40am PT
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Trump passed on a scheduled visit because it was raining
Forgive President Snowflake - the rains aggravates his bone spurs.
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Adventurer
Mountain climber
Virginia
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Nov 12, 2018 - 08:01am PT
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Happy Veterans Day to all who served!
I agree with the points made by SLR on the draft and on the our penchant to involve American soldiers in too many foreign wars.
I was in the Army from 1967–1977 so my experience covered both the draft and the transition to an all volunteer force. I was a training NCO during the actual transition. One week I had draftees in a training course and the next all volunteers. The change in the attitude of the two groups was very clear. The volunteers were there because they wanted to be and were much more willing to learn and adapt to military demands.
Also, as SLR said, our country has to learn to avoid the pitfall of sending US forces to fight in hopeless endeavors. Vietnam and Afghanistan are two examples.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 12, 2018 - 08:07am PT
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Jim Clipper is right on about bringing back the draft...and don’t allow cowardly Trump style deferments for bone spurs.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 12, 2018 - 08:14am PT
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 12, 2018 - 08:16am PT
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I went to that wall years ago and cried ....
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Nov 12, 2018 - 09:03am PT
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Unecpectedly, my mom took me to see a replica of the wall. She told me a story about a guy she met. She and a friend went to see him just before he got on the bus to go overseas. She asked his CO if they could talk for a minute, which he allowed.
When my mom met my dad, she sent the guy the letter. I remember her saying he wrote back, angry. Decades later, my mom saw in the newspaper that a replica of the wall was touring the states. She said she woke up one night, and remembered his name. She was never able to recall it before then.
I think they were only together briefly. Still, knowing a little of my grandparents, and the way my mom was raised, she was from a time when a couple of dates could really mean something. Moreover, the timing. Finally, maybe, the world was bigger. When you're that far from home, you probably hold on to whatever you have that much more.
Again, my 2 cents. The draft or public service. Mandatory. If not the military, you get to meet some different Americans. Hopefully get together, share meals, chores, get stronger, do work. Maybe solve some problems
Also, I saw a talk by a guy who spent time with McCain and others in North Vietnam. He talked about being put in a box not big enough to stand in, or lie down straight. He said it was the best experience of his life. He said he truly learned the value of "parachute packers".
This shouldn't be so heavy, but some never haul their share of the burden, including me. Still, those that readily spend the idealism, strength, an vigor of our youth in service, should personally know the cost.
Sincerely thanks to those who did their best for each other and their country.
edit: shaved head not required
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Nov 12, 2018 - 09:44am PT
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I went and sat at my grandpas gravesite yesterday. We had a really good conversation. A huge thank you to every vet out there. You are appreciated.
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Klimmer2.0
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Nov 12, 2018 - 10:48am PT
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I would like to salute all Veterans ...
My grand father was a WW2 Naval intelligence officer and worked on Russian code. We had to keep tabs even on our Allies in WW2. He couldn't tell us until after 50 years had gone by, then he told us everything he worked on.
My grandfather's brother, my uncle, was a B-24 Liberator pilot in WW2.
I was in the US Army 82-84. I was in the 3rd US Infantry, "The Old Guard," Co. E, "Honor Guard," at Ft. Myer, VA. While I was in, the Beirut Bombing took place and I was able to help and escort family at the Memorial service at Andrews Air Force Base in Washington DC. The Vietnam War Memorial was dedicated while I was there in Washington DC, and I witnessed that. We gave the Vietnam Veterans their first official parade after the war down constitution Avenue. The US fought in Grenada and we did a big ceremony for many units at Summerall Field at Ft. Myer, VA, for the returning soldiers. I was on "Honor Guard" casket team and buried many Vietnam Veterans in Arlington National Cemetery, as well as many others. That was the hardest duty to do. Yes ceremonial soldiers we sometimes cry when we carry caskets. I know I did. We played Infantry war games in the winter when we weren't so busy with our ceremonial duties. The primary mission of the "Honor Guard" is to protect the President in times of national emergency at Camp David. We practiced that every year and they picked us up in Huey and Chinnok helicopters right on Summerall Field, flew us around Washington DC, and then flew us to Camp David to practice those maneuvers. You will know my unit US Army 3rd US Infantry, "Honor Guard" when you watch the Francis Ford Coppula movie "Gardens of Stone." Very interesting times indeed.
My younger brother served in the Navy, and my younger sister also served in the US Army.
Like they do in Israel, everyone should serve, 2 years I believe. Our nation would be the better for it, and everyone would have national pride and love of country and we wouldn't have all the social ills we have now.
It is a crime that our veterans are homeless and on the street. If I had the monetary means, I would make that a priority and get them off the streets and give them their dignity back and see that they are cared for. Our veterans have sacrificed so much.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Nov 12, 2018 - 12:56pm PT
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I have a purple heart license plate on my truck. It has probably saved me a few times from getting a speeding ticket, but when occasionally someone says to me "thanks for your service", I usually think why thank me, it was probably one big waste of lives and money spent to keep the war machine going. The only legitimate war was WW2, in my opinion, and perhaps Korea.
Look at Vietnam today. If we hadn't gone over there, would the end result be any different? I don't think so.
I still need to watch that series by Ken Burns.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Nov 12, 2018 - 01:17pm PT
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A much younger me, mountain top about 40 mi n. of Pusan - probably 1975
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Nov 12, 2018 - 03:57pm PT
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It is a crime that our veterans are homeless and on the street Bad news, you won't want to hear this.
The VA has an excellent homeless vet program to get vets into apartments and get them training and jobs. I have been intimately involved in these programs.
Unfortunately, many homeless vets crush all attempts to help them. They get placed into an apartment. Then they kill the neighbor's dog, threaten kids with a knife, and try to burn up another neighbor's car. The vet gets a lifetime ban from that housing unit. The DAV provides free transportation to the VA, but homeless vets fail to follow up with counselors, fail to pick-up free medications from the pharmacy, and fail to take their meds. Repeat ad nauseum until the vet is banned from all homeless shelters and banned from all regional housing units. They end up on the street and they bitch that the VA won't help them.
You can only help people who want to help themselves. Sad but true.
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Nov 12, 2018 - 04:11pm PT
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it was probably one big waste of lives and money spent to keep the war machine going
I've talked to more than one Vietnamese American who would disagree. Not many said much, but I'm sure some share similar values, the same experience.
For all the faults of our government, actions that can and should be questioned, I still believe that we enjoy a privileged place in a complicated but still sometimes beautiful world.
fwiw welcome home
there is a woman, a native american artist, whose work is in the smithsonian, She made a small teepee and painted the outside with helicopters
edit: SLR, never give up? i admire your work
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