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Matt's
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 22, 2016 - 08:58am PT
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Off the top of my head, at least 5 people died in yosemite/sierras in the last month.
1) east ledges rappels (chris)
2) bear creek spire (maria)
3) onion valley (kwok)
4) evolution traverse (julia)
5) (edit-- this one was a swimming accident)
6) (edit-- a U-notch accident)
As I've climbed over the years, you get more integrated into the community, and thus it seems like anyone who dies is only 1 degree separated from you.
It makes me wonder-- is this the "normal" rate of death in the sierras? Or is it just that I pay attention more to this stuff these days?
Are there any good statistics on how dangerous climbing is?
best,
matt
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Sep 22, 2016 - 09:44am PT
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Sierra
and yes this is pretty normal in an active season.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Sep 22, 2016 - 10:40am PT
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Condolences to the families.
The cold mountain lakes need to be respected. I have seen bad things happen when someone starts to have problems in that cold water ;-(
We had jump in and save a friend in Upper Boy Scout lake after he dove 15 feet down to retrieve a knife he accidentally tossed in the lake. He barely made it to the surface, gasped for air, then started sinking. We thought he was having a heart attack. The cold water just blew the air right out of his lungs. He was ok, but he would have died if we weren't right there watching.
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Nanobody
Trad climber
Fresno, CA
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Sep 22, 2016 - 11:15am PT
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Climber was also killed on U-notch in July
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Sep 22, 2016 - 11:21am PT
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Was there more information re: the East Ledges accident?
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Matt's
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2016 - 11:22am PT
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no, haven't heard anything about the east ledges rappel accident. yosar will probably publish something at some point in the future
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Matt's
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2016 - 11:23am PT
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Sierra
and yes this is pretty normal in an active season.
Squishy-- do you have any references for this-- you're saying, say, 10 california climbing deaths a summer is about the normal rate?
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Sep 22, 2016 - 11:53am PT
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no, unfortunately no one keeps statistics of the deaths, there's no record and you just have to take my word for it. Would be a good annual book or something, like "accidents in mountaineering" or something like that.
http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/about_accidents
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Sep 22, 2016 - 12:01pm PT
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No hard info, just general recollection. It seems to me that this season is unusually busy in this sad respect.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Sep 22, 2016 - 12:22pm PT
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huh, interesting..
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Sep 22, 2016 - 01:27pm PT
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I don't believe anyone has stated Professor Kwok's cause of death yet. As far as I can tell, the cause of his death remains under investigation.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Sep 22, 2016 - 01:34pm PT
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Matt,
Like you said, sometimes the randomness kicks in and bad things happen to several people you know in a short span of time.
I felt that way in summer/fall 2010:
 Chris Chan fell solo on Eichorn Pinnacle, fatal
Wendy decked from 200' up in Owens, spinal cord injury & more
Steph had an open tib/fib fracture in the mountains in a simple leader fall, barely rescued & epic rehabs
Personally, I rarely climb in the Sierra, and loose rock is one of the factors (not the only factor; also the driving time and I'm a weak hiker).
Some years ago I gave up climbing mountains with lots of loose rock,
after climbing Bonanza Peak with my wife and our fathers;
there was so much loose junk on ledges that we couldn't rope up since the
rope would just knock rocks down onto each other....
There are too many other places to climb where the rock is good.
Hence the thread I made a few years ago:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/914781/Temple-Crag-too-loose-accident-list
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Sep 22, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
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It makes me wonder-- is this the "normal" rate of death in the sierras? Or is it just that I pay attention more to this stuff these days?
Would you have had any idea of any of these deaths if they had all died in car accidents?
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Matt's
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2016 - 01:53pm PT
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Would you have had any idea of any of these deaths if they had all died in car accidents?
Yeah, 2 of the 5 people.
With car accidents, there is data on how many accidents there are per year; the likelyhood of an accident per 1000 hours driven, etc...
None of this sort of information exists for climbing, so I don't really have a sense of how dangerous it is relative to other activities...
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Matt's
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2016 - 02:37pm PT
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Thanks mike-- it looks like that there are only a few instances where the data is reported in units that are actually interpretable....
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Sep 22, 2016 - 03:08pm PT
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Matt,
I agree, that tetongravity.com article uses many different types of units which makes it difficult to compare.
The "1 in 60" deaths number for BASE is very wrong, too.
It is actually 1 death per 60 participants in 2002.
I analyzed it in this thread:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2836663&tn=120
And on the previous page I describe the fundamental statistical problem:
getting a count of number of participants (or participant days) for the denominator of the fraction.
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Matt's
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2016 - 04:32pm PT
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thanks clint.
after maria's accident, my wife asked me if this was a normal level of accidents. I realized I didn't know the answer, so I tried to see if anyone on supertopo knew. It looks like real data doesn't exist...
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Sep 22, 2016 - 05:28pm PT
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Try the American Alpine Club.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 22, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
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Data is useless.
When your number is up the reaper will appear .......
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Ed H
Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
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Sep 23, 2016 - 01:11pm PT
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I pulled my 2003 'Accidents in North American Mountaineering' book off the self.
They report 1503 deaths between 1951 and 2001 or 30 a year in US and Canada.
CA had 266 deaths in the same time period or about 5 per year.
From the introduction: 'The Outdoor Industry Association estimates 1.3 million climbing enthusiasts', but the editor says he stands by his 250-300k estimate for number of climbers who climb at least 10 times per year. (2003 data).
Be careful out there people.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Sep 23, 2016 - 01:15pm PT
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The cold water just blew the air right out of his lungs. Or mammalian diving reflex, slows the heart rate
Some people are more affected than others
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Sep 23, 2016 - 01:16pm PT
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Thanks Ed.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Sep 23, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
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Sh*t happens, and water is dangerous. I nearly drowned in the Kern River (downstream of the dam) a few weeks ago. It was a very near thing. Underestimated the current and depth, overestimated my swimming ability. When I crawled up on the shore I was seconds from getting sucked down into a giant foaming hole. Safely ashore I couldn't stand up I was so gassed. Still get the heebie-jeebies thinking about it.
Be careful out there folks. Take measure of what your getting into.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Sep 23, 2016 - 03:11pm PT
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Yeah, 2 of the 5 people.
With car accidents, there is data on how many accidents there are per year; the likelyhood of an accident per 1000 hours driven, etc...
None of this sort of information exists for climbing, so I don't really have a sense of how dangerous it is relative to other activities...
Ok, fair enough. But off the top of my head I can think of a number of people that I've met (at the base of climb or around a camp fire) that later died in climbing accidents. But if they had died in a car accident I probably would never had heard about it. So sure, the stats for car accidents exist, but that isn't really how your emotional response works.
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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Sep 25, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
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Old data from NPS:
"With these questions in mind, the National Park Service (NPS) has examined most of the serious accidents that occurred in the park during the years from 1970 through 1990. The conclusions provide interesting reading for those wishing to stay alive.
Analysis of Climbing Accidents
Fifty-one climbers died from traumatic injuries in that period. A dozen more, critically hurt, would have died without rapid transport and medical treatment. In addition, there were many serious but survivable injuries, from fractured skulls to broken legs (at least 50 fractures per year), and a much larger number of cuts, bruises, and sprains.
Not surprisingly, most injuries occurred during leader falls and involved feet, ankles, or lower legs; for many, these are the accepted risks of climbing. However, leader falls accounted for only 25% of the fatal and near-fatal traumatic injuries; roughly 10% were from rockfall, 25% from being deliberately unroped, and 40% from simple mistakes with gear. Many cases are not clear cut; several factors may share the credit, and it is sometimes hard to quantify the weird adventures climbers have.
Not to be overlooked in the body count are environmental injuries. Inadequately equipped for the weather, four climbers died of hypothermia and perhaps 45 more would have died of the cold or heat if not rescued.
Fifteen to 25 parties require an NPS rescue each year. Sixty more climbers stagger into Yosemite’s medical clinic on their own, and an unknown number escape statistical immortality by seeking treatment outside the park.
Most Yosemite victims are experienced climbers, 60% have been climbing for three years or more, lead at least 5.10, are in good condition, and climb frequently. Short climbs and big walls, easy routes and desperate ones – all get their share of the accidents.
The NPS keeps no statistics on how many climbers use the park, but 25,000 to 50,000 climber-days annually is a fair estimate. With this in mind, 2.5 deaths and a few serious injuries per year may seem a pretty low rate..."
Source: https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/climbing_safety.htm
More from NPS on visitation, ALL search/rescue and ALL fatalities, fairly recent data:
Park visitors: 4,294,381 (2015), 4,029,416 (2014), 3,829,361 (2013)
Search/rescue operations: 239 (2015), 181 (2014), 184 (2013), 216 (2012)
Fatalities: 20 (2015), 13 (2014), 15 (2012)
And just for some comparison:
Bears hit by vehicles: 39 (2015), 25 (2014), 16 (2013)
Source: https://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/management/statistics.htm
Tom Higgins
LongAgo
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