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gecka88
Sport climber
Germany, NRW
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 30, 2016 - 05:08am PT
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Hello,
i studied supertopo, outdoorgearlab und Chris Big Wall Book detailed. Now i have some open questions, escpeccialy about nuts and cams.
I have some basic stuff like some BD cams and nuts. I climb till 5.11a in european single pitches and 5.10b in multi pitches.
My plan is to climb the Nose in 3 years and I want to build up a rack for this goal.
I read the recommondations for the nose and Big wall routes in general. So my questions:
1. For small Cams I got this 3 recommondations:
2 sets Metolius Master Cam
2 sets of Metolius Master Cams to #5
1-2 sets Black Diamond Camalot X4s (#00-4)
I can only find the Metolius Ultralight Master Cams in 10 sizes. 2 Sets would mean 20 cams. The other recommandtions is 1-2 sets of BD X4 in #00-4. I can not find this sizes.
So how many and which size of the small cams do I need?
This is what i sum up for the rest regarding the recommantions:
 offset nuts: one of each size dmm offset nuts in total 5
small nuts: one of each size dmm peenuts, in total 5
Brass nuts: DMM brass offset nuts one #2, one #3, two #4, two #5, two #6. in total 8
So in Total 18 nuts.
Offset cam: one of each availibe metiolius offset master cam, 6 in total (alternativ BD x4 offset)
Normal cam: 2 sets of each size from BD C4 from 0,5-5, 14 in total
So in total 20 cams plus the amount of the small cams (Metolius Master of BD X4)
Is this the right amount of nuts and cams?
Its clear that I dont have to focus on this brands, but for the discussion of the amount and sizes it is easier to take on brand and modell as example.
Thanks in advance and greetings from germany!
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gecka88
Sport climber
Germany, NRW
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2016 - 05:45am PT
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Hello,
thanks for the response. But this looks a lot less than whats recommanded on supertopo and from chris, i don't know if this fits to my competences ;)
Btw.: which alex and hans?
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Matt's
climber
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Aug 30, 2016 - 05:58am PT
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rack for nose is incredibly dependent on your level of skill and the style in which you do the climb... there is no right answer.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Denver CO
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Aug 30, 2016 - 07:37am PT
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You don't even need all that gear, just ask Alex, lol.
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gecka88
Sport climber
Germany, NRW
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2016 - 07:53am PT
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Yes, as i mentioned, this does not match my skillset. I dont want go in one day, nor speed nor anything "extreme". Just a "normal" way to go in 3-4 days with portaledge. I agree that the the rack depends on the climbing skils and plan, but also most people will need specific stuff, e.g. a rope ;)
For cams and nuts i took my infos there:
I refer to this:
http://www.supertopo.com/rock-climbing/route_gear.php?r=ybelnose
1 ea Moses Cam hook
1 set of Black Diamond Stopper
1 set of DMM Peenuts
1 sets of Offset Brass Nuts
2 sets Metolius Master Cam
1 sets Metolius Offset Master Cam
2 sets of Black Diamond Camalots #0.5-5
http://www.supertopo.com/a/The-Best-Yosemite-Big-Wall-Climbing-Rack-and-Gear-List/a10980n.html
1 set DMM Offset Nuts or ABC Huevos (BB)
1 set DMM Peenuts
1-2 sets DMM Brassoffse Offsets or Black Diamond Offset Micro Stopper
Cams:
1-2 sets Black Diamond Camalot X4s (#00-4)
1 set Black Diamond Camalot X4 Offset (optional) (#00-4)
2 sets Black Diamond Camalot C4s to (#0.5-4)
1-2 ea Moses Cam Hook
http://www.supertopo.com/climbingareas/bigwalls.html
1 ea DMM Offset Nuts
1 set DMM Peenuts
1 set DMM Brass Offsets #2-3, 2 ea #4-6
2 ea cam hooks (narrow)
2 sets of Metolius Master Cams to #5 of Aliens
1-2 sets of Metolius Offset Master Cams to #5
2 sets of Black Diamond Camalot C4 #0.5-3
1 each of Black Diamond Camalots C4 #4 and #5
Thanks for your fast replies, but it would be great, when the answers would be more specific to my questions from the starting post.
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Aug 30, 2016 - 07:53am PT
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I did the nose a couple years ago, it was my first real big wall (I did some shorter climbs in Zion), and we used 2 sets of BD from .5-#4, a full set of hybrid aliens (amazingly secure in pin-scars), and a set of grey to yellow tcus. We had a full set of regular nuts, a set of DMM peenuts and DMM brassy offsets. The only time I wish I had more gear was when I left some in the haul bag.
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norm larson
climber
wilson, wyoming
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Aug 30, 2016 - 08:14am PT
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Cut the legs of your stove and just head up.
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Aug 30, 2016 - 08:18am PT
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Quit being useless dicks.
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slabbo
Trad climber
colo south
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Aug 30, 2016 - 08:40am PT
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Depends on how much free climbing you will be doing i guess ?
if the Nose is your first wall, you will bring a ton of gear and maybe even use a lot of it....5 sets of cams seems a bit much though.
The brands don't matter . Don't forget about all the other gear, biners,aiders,jugs and such
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Aug 30, 2016 - 08:41am PT
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Apparently asking questions about climbing on a climbing forum is now a scorn worthy offense. Better that we all post on one of the Trump threads.
I think any of those racks would be fine..I would also start amassing a huge number of carabiners, you will need way more than you think.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Aug 30, 2016 - 09:00am PT
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Apparently asking questions about climbing on a climbing forum is now a scorn worthy offense. Better that we all post on one of the Trump threads.
I think any of those racks would be fine..I would also start amassing a huge number of carabiners, you will need way more than you think.
I would agree with this advice but also say that increasing the number of LOCKING carabiners might be a good choice as well. With the tremendous amount of sh#t that I brought with, locking biners seemed to add a measure of confidence in some situations.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Aug 30, 2016 - 11:22am PT
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Btw.: which alex and hans?
I think it's these guys:
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Aug 30, 2016 - 11:36am PT
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I agree with Radical. My first full aid lead, later freed at all of 5.8, I placed about 35 pins (this was obviously a long time ago). That was essentially a big wall rack for one low-angle A1 lead of maybe 35 meters. If I were to aid the whole thing now, I could do the route all aid on maybe 20 nuts and cams, with a little "leapfrogging" of placements.
How much aid in granitic cracks have you done, and how much do you expect to do when you come to the Valley? I suspect that by then, you'll have a much better idea of what gear to bring.
I would second the recommendation for Alien offsets in pin scars, although I haven't used Totem Cams yet (sorry, Plaid Man. I will if my ship comes in). Alien offsets give an amazing level of security in those flared holes.
John
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slabbo
Trad climber
colo south
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Aug 30, 2016 - 11:51am PT
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I think asking about how much free climbing is an important thing..if your climbing the Nose say at 11A and a lot of it free,,that's a much different rack than say at 5.8 C2
Also.. a person doing the Nose as a first wall probably won't be leap frogging a lot of placements
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gecka88
Sport climber
Germany, NRW
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
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Yes, i totally understand this! But i am not new in climbing, I climb since 15 years, also several multi pitches in the alps. I also did one complete aid route (250m A2) only with ladders and overhanging terrain, so a little bit of basic knowledge is there ;) But heavy aid climbing is not that familiar in my region, so thats why ask about which size of rack is senseful ;)
Climbing the nose is a real dream for me, thats why i read a lot and try to get informations. Also i have a plan to do it in 3 years, not next week ;) Also i don't plan the nose as my first Big Wall. We want to climb more Granite and cracks next year in the alps. Than make a first trip for 3 weeks in 2018 and hopefully the nose on a second trip in 2019.
I mean of course, at the end it is not important for the success if you have cam abc from brand xyz.
But I want to plan early, to avoid bad experiences ;) Also the planning is more important, because the flight from europe etc. is very effortful.
And the recommandtions with the cams was a point that was a little bit unclear for me, but there were some! helpful posts. When i sum up, this sounds like a senseful rack:
5 normal nuts (e.g. DMM offset nuts)
5 small offset nuts (e.g.DMM Peenuts)
8 brass nuts (DMM Brass offset)
=18 nuts
14 normal cams (e.g. BD C4 2 of every size from #0,5-5)
6 small offset cams (e.g. BD X4 offset one of each size)
8 small cams (e.g. BD X4 one of each size + 2 additional)
= 28 cams
Does this sounds like a senseful rack? (of course i know about all other stuff i need for Big Wall, but most of this is described well enough for me on supertopo and Chris Big WAll Book)
I am asking because when I took the recommanded list literally i would end up with 35 cams and i thought this would be a little bit to much? So i would rather take 25-30 cams?
P.S.: maybe one other question: THe list recommand 40 biners. Normally i have a biner clipped to my cam. Are this 40 ones recommanded additional to the biners clipped to the cam?
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 30, 2016 - 03:33pm PT
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Same lame troll over and over again.
3 years says it all .....
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gecka88
Sport climber
Germany, NRW
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2016 - 04:18am PT
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Same lame troll over and over again.
3 years says it all ..... what do you mean with this?
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gecka88
Sport climber
Germany, NRW
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2016 - 04:41am PT
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What do you mean with "Gecka, apologies if you are legitimate. "
I am from germany, so CEST ;) 7 Hours later than USA.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Aug 31, 2016 - 04:53am PT
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On the dumb chance that this -all of the responses you've ignored- has not translated?
Or been translated for you
You need to prove who you are!
Who do you climb with? Where do you climb regularly and what else do you do?
Create a real who I am post here and I would share real information
Locking bieners! Yes double whatever you think you need of those.
The idea that it is still and calm up there ? Where does that idea come from?
I needed Dramamine;( motion sickness Meds ) but chewing ginger helps that.
I think this is is called the double Snake Charmer! This will shave agrivation off the clusterfx, it may seem an unnecessary thing but
Your mileage may be doubled and you will also save time, using it.
Also remember, some times, What you take is not what you climb with
(See that Locking 'biener!)
some of the time you will want to send & fix then jugg all the shjt up the fixed lines
Both the hat
AND sets of Pulleys not like the crap in this picture though..
dont forget to take a calm mind, in the center of it all, as depicted above,
And lots of water...
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gecka88
Sport climber
Germany, NRW
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2016 - 05:31am PT
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Mh, normally i don't have that problems with english. But the climb specific terms are always very hard, because they are not in the dictionary, but over the times i got most of them. So i dont get the point with the translations and ignoring replys ;)
So i have the feeling, my question were clear and specific. Unfortunately most of the non-trolling answers don't rely on these questions, but giving other (senseful) informations. Some of them, i already now, because i read the big wall Book from Chris. I mean, i am very thankful for every information I got, but i really be happy, when they would rely more on my questions.
I mean, I can tell you more about me, no problem, but i also have spread several informations in the posts. And I dont know how this belongs to my specific questions ;) -
I start the thread to get information about how many cams would be senseful for the first time in the nose, with normal climbing skills till 5.11.
"Who do you climb with? Where do you climb regularly and what else do you do?"
So me (28) and my partner (25) climb since 10-15 years. He is into extreme alpinsim and climb the Eiger or did a first ascent in china. He climbs in 5.11 Grade, I am the upper 5.10. We both climb mainly in germany and europe (mainly limbstone) and plan a trip to a granite area in the alps next year. We have both experience in large multi pitch routes in the alps, but only have first experiences with aid climbing. Besides climbing we do other spors like Mountain Bike or running.
BTW.: How many locking biners would you recommand? I would take 10-15 for the climbing team (what is the right term, the dict. suggests roped party?)
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Aug 31, 2016 - 05:47am PT
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The profile, who you are is an excellent start.( the doubt is still heavy )
We here on this site are not going to just believe Anyone,
but
if you have the experience, the 'captain is a big rock.
Nase zum Schleifstein
It is hard work. Repetitive, over And over again the same thing
till you loose the light
or the stoke to keep going.
The German ~ Nase zum Schleifstein
'nose to the Grind stone'
is the very explanation of Big Wall Yosemite climbing.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Aug 31, 2016 - 06:04am PT
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What am I up to?
Ugh you had to ask
lm a bowling ball!
This has to be the most I will ever weigh!
Whit the holiday weekend coming up,
(I'm going to stomp up some hills,) then
And now.
and end the day,
mowing some of the lawn.
I live amongst folks with display yards.
Mine is a joke, we don't grow grass,
There are 21 scraggly trees that give us great shade.
stops the grass from growing to fast. I mow twice a summer some times,
When things get up to my ankles, I'll mow a3rd time.
I hate to kill the weeds
then there is nothing left but dirt
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gecka88
Sport climber
Germany, NRW
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2016 - 07:47am PT
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Woher willst du denn wissen welche Fehler ein deutscher macht?
Wenn Amis so tun, als würden sie Deutsch sprechen würden sie zu 100% das Wort "Schnitzel" unterbringen.
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Aug 31, 2016 - 10:21am PT
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Adam! Time to come upstairs for breakfast honey. Mommy even made some Tang for you!
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Lassitude 33
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Aug 31, 2016 - 10:25am PT
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Just ignore the a$$wipes (that's Latin). Unfortunately, this site is full of ex climbers who rather post mindless (mostly political) drivel.
Even so, some good advice. You'll be fine..
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Skeeered
Big Wall climber
the otherside of the crack
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Aug 31, 2016 - 10:26am PT
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...eff off cosmic
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Highlife
Trad climber
California
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Aug 31, 2016 - 01:44pm PT
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double rack bd .3-3
one each extra .75 1 and a 4 (extra number 4 if bad at wide cracks)
1 set small cams (oo, o, 1 C3s)
offset blue/yellow, yellow/yellow orange
offset nuts small to medium
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Aug 31, 2016 - 02:42pm PT
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^^^ Sounds about right.
No need for two #5's, or even one, I imagine.
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gecka88
Sport climber
Germany, NRW
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2016 - 01:57am PT
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Didn't expect an ontopic post anymore, but thank you!
So, the recommanadtions for Black Diamond Cams are stable. You need obviously 2 sets from #0,5 (or 0,3) to #4 so in total about 14 BD C4.
What is still not so clear for me, and that was the reason for this topic. How many of the small ones like X4 and X4 Offset is senseful.
On supertopo this are the recommanded small cams for the nose http://www.supertopo.com/rock-climbing/route_gear.php?r=ybelnose :
2 sets Metolius Master Cam
1 sets Metolius Offset Master Cam
2 Sets complete Master cam would mean 14 Cams and 1 Set offset Master cam would mean 6. So plus the C4s this would mean 34 Cams in total. I have the feeling this is a little bit to much. Also the question is, what does "set" mean? All availbe sizes one time?
So when you want to answer my question:
Beside the 14 BD C4s, how many and which sizes of the small cams (Metolius Master/BD X4) and the small offset cams (Metolius offset master/BD X4 offset) is senseful.
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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It seems to me you're placing way too much emphasis on small cams, if "small" means smaller than #1 friend size. Also, the brands don't matter, who cares what hand crack sized cam you place? 4-6 small cams would be plenty, a selection of about 6 small nuts, a double set of regular nuts up to 1", the 3 smallest tricams, and triple cams from #1 friend size up to #3.5 friend size, and 2 #4s, and you should be good. The upper part of the stovelegs gets a little wide for the #4 friend, if I recall correctly. If you're not secure running it out a bit at that width, you might like one cam a step up from #4. The whole route is super secure, and you can usually get different sizes of gear in. Take a rack that will get you up Outer Limits, Midterm, and New Dimensions.
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Scole
Trad climber
Zapopan
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When I climbed the nose years ago Friends had just reached the market. We had one each #1,#2,#3. The rest of the rack was hexes up to #11 and a bunch of stoppers. That rack was fine then, and would work well today: Modern gear is just a bonus.
If you free climb or leaprog in the Stovelegs then doubles is good. If you want more gear take triples. Nuts work great on the nose, so you wont need a lot of small cams, but a few wouldn't hurt.
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