What ever happened to "ground up"?

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Mungeclimber

Trad climber

one pass away from the big ditch

Nov 20, 2006 - 05:51pm PT

trip, no way?! chking the web now.

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

one pass away from the big ditch

Nov 20, 2006 - 05:55pm PT

i think I been had.

ikellen

Trad climber

Mammoth Lakes, CA

Nov 20, 2006 - 07:00pm PT

I had it easy. 6 ground-up first ascents of

...

boulder problems.

No bolts, no drilled hooks. Who says size matters? :P

bob d'antonio

Trad climber

Taos, NM

Nov 20, 2006 - 07:23pm PT

Joe... it just climbing. It's just a sport.

Most people don't care how a route went in...just if it a good route.

I drilled on the lead routes that are 5.12. Most haven't seen a second ascent and most were self-serving.

To the weasel Hardman/Dan. You really are a chickensh#t.

slabhappy

Trad climber

Forest City NC

Nov 20, 2006 - 08:17pm PT

Alive and well in North Carolina. There is a legacy here that demands it.

climber

Nov 20, 2006 - 08:26pm PT

A friend of mine who had tasted the fruit of both trees told me that after climbing the "first ascent" of his "top-down" creation, "It was like doing someone else's route." Myself, having done only GU routes, that explanation was good enough for me. I didn't need to go there...

TradIsGood

Fun-loving climber

the Gunks end of the country

Nov 20, 2006 - 08:41pm PT

"Ground up" is what my hands would be if I ever tried a hard crack.

Jaybro

Social climber

The West

Nov 20, 2006 - 08:46pm PT

silly troll

less than 10% of the new routes I have put up are Not ground up.

Remember when the issue was whether they were hangdogged, first?

Different styles, different ablicability.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Nov 20, 2006 - 09:11pm PT

Bob, I guess I'm still a complete throwback that considers it rock first, art second, and a sport if you only climb other people's routes. The LNT thing was just too ingrained I guess. But then I fought chalk as well and had to give up on that precious ethic after 26 years on hitting the sun line on my first trip to the Valley. It was literally a "slippery" slope as while I left that chalk bag in the Valley at the end of the trip I did finally replace it for 95+ degree days and caked up holds in the gym. I've got a couple of FA's in sight for next year that may require a bolt or two to keep the rope from cutting in a fall, but that would probably be the only circumstance where I'd use one. But see, right there, a slippery sloper...

m e

climber

Nov 20, 2006 - 09:26pm PT

Im new at this so i dont care if you laugh. When you speak of ground up on lead bolting, do you not hang when you drill? So you can hold on to a 5.anything and hand drill for an hour or however long it takes? If this is the case i'm putting down my beer, cuz ive got a sh#t load of training to do. wow.

john hansen

climber

Nov 20, 2006 - 10:23pm PT

i only use drill bits made from the rib bones of deer, fitted with a small quartz crysal attached to the end , and lightly tapped over and over with a worn river stone.. after many weeks I fill the hole with a carved piece of madrone burl that has been slowly smoke cured over juniper wood for a year. To this I attach a jawbone from a wild boar. This is the only "pure" way.

Sure takes a long time to put up a route thou....

Jello

Social climber

No Ut

Nov 20, 2006 - 10:34pm PT

Jaybro said it for me - "different applicability". And Ron: "That was (is) the goal to shoot for." Meaning on-sight ground up no falls/frigging nuts only FA. But, I have carried a few blades and a hammer to make a good route possible. Example: Risky Business, RMNP, 9 pitches of very run-out slab with Mark Wilford. (Now ruined by twenty or so retro-bolts). I've occasionaly also placed bolts from stances on lead, with a hand drill, beginning with the S-Direct in Little Cottonwood, in 1967. I've even added bolts to a big wall route (my own, Wind, Sand and Stars), so that it could be free-climbed. I don't ever recall doing the top-down thing, but have clipped bolts on a number of routes established that way, and enjoyed them.

Ultimate style though? - on-sight free-solo of a new route. My finest experience in this style (on rock) was the North Buttress of Putscanturpa Norte, Peru.

N0_ONE

Social climber

Utah

Nov 20, 2006 - 11:10pm PT

Yep, got me sum too!

Mimi

climber

Nov 20, 2006 - 11:24pm PT

Jello, do you have any pics of that route? Hope that story's included in the new book.

Really funny JH.

aldude

climber

Monument Manor

Nov 20, 2006 - 11:43pm PT

Ground up = First Ascent

Top down = First Descent

Let's call a spade a spade!!

Rhodo-Router

Gym climber

Otto, NC

Nov 20, 2006 - 11:46pm PT

I still do it that way most of the time. Now that I have a power drill, I tend to look for new crags that aren't in wilderness areas if they're not going to involve good crack systems. Kinds sad but hand drilling gets pretty old pretty fast, it's definitely work.

Greg Barnes

climber

Nov 20, 2006 - 11:59pm PT

"Some of you make an extra point to say that your ground up route was done with a hand drill. Why in the hell would you use a hand drill unless you were in a wilderness/national park setting?"

They were all in designated Wilderness. The extra point of the hand drill is to show that not only did ground-up not die with EBs, but hand drilling didn't die with power drills. Of course, sport climbing didn't exist before power drills...but that's a different topic. Sort of.