Obama creates 3 new Nat. Monuments in Cali Desert --YAY!

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apogee

climber

Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy

Feb 12, 2016 - 01:16pm PT

If it keeps the offroaders out of there (eventually), I'm all for it.

Splater

climber

Grey Matter

Feb 12, 2016 - 01:16pm PT

From how away can you detect:

tar sands

coal mines

coal power plant emissions

sprawl

excess emissions of all fuel hungry cars

radiative net forcing of all aircraft

an oil spill

answer: Worldwide, not just a visual esthetic.

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Feb 12, 2016 - 01:21pm PT

Most of the area is designated wilderness, apogee, so motorized travel (and mountain biking, too) are already largely prohibited. There are two designated off-road routes, basically from Courtright to Kaiser Pass and, I think, one other (I'm not an off-roader, so I don't pay close attention).

It bothers me, though, that those who already have most of the area designated wilderness, and thus off limits to the users they don't like, want to take away the rest of it, too. In addition, responsible logging might actually improve the air quality where I live. And I really do like being able to put my sleeping bag down near the road wherever it makes sense.

To me, regimentation and wilderness fight with each other. The NPS regulation tends to destroy the spontaneity and freedom that constitutes a major aspect of adventure and wild places.

John

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

Feb 12, 2016 - 01:21pm PT

I'm just saddened to see the inevitable march toward there being NO place that responsible citizens can do what we used to do in JT back in the day, where just simply BEING for an extended period (weeks?) is illegal.

Given the growing (and ever-stupider) population, I guess it is inevitable. But I don't have to like or applaud it.

Edit: Well-said, John!

apogee

climber

Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy

Feb 12, 2016 - 01:23pm PT

Actually, I was referring more to the Desert monuments, John.

Batrock

Trad climber

Burbank

Feb 12, 2016 - 01:34pm PT

I have mixed feeling about this status and it's eventual impact. Prior to Death Valley becoming a NP and absorbing the Saline Valley, a place I have loved and enjoyed for almost 35 year, the Saline Hot Springs were regulated by the people who used them and it worked fine. When the NP Service took over the springs became more crowded, which is ironic since it also limited the amount of time a visitor could stay, I believe it's 30 days total a year now, maybe less. The park service also installed modern vault toilets replacing the best outhouses on earth, the old three walled outhouses. The newer vault toilets overflow with human waste because pump truck contractors are unwilling or unable to drive in to this remote valley. They tried building a kiosk at the lower springs but it didnt even last a night. Signs were erected and berms bulldozed blocking old roads up and down the valley telling you not to drive on roads that maybe received 2-3 cars a year. The signs are more of an eyesore and the berms caused more damage than any of the handful of backcountry travelers ever caused.

The only good that has come with the park taking over the Saline is that it is now illegal to drive on the dunes in the Saline but even now I see a$$holes tearing around on the dunes from time to time. The bottom line is it was better taken care of before it became a NP, the people who used the area loved the area and it showed. The park service does not have the manpower to patrol it and my fear is that their answer will be to just close it if they cant manage it.

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, CA

Feb 12, 2016 - 01:40pm PT

I hold the same reservations that John, Pud, and MB are expressing, hence my original post.

Everybody here likes the outdoors, and we all enjoying using it responsibly. Ask yourself if the monuments would just be better off left alone. Once they become 'monuments' they seem to lose their pristine, wild nature.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

Feb 12, 2016 - 01:41pm PT

Maddy!!!!!1111111 You're alive!!!

Ahh... just got really tired there for awhile, and we've been absolutely insanely buried in bringing a new (for us) university online. My head's more or less above water again now, for the moment.

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Feb 12, 2016 - 01:42pm PT

FEDERAL LAND GRAB......

DMT. Don't worry, exceptions will be made for Solar Plants, Wind Farms and Geothermal plants.... to help the planet, you know.

It will be like the closure (wilderness land) that made it so one can't drive to the Heller Rocks or the Domeland Wilderness....unless you are a government employee, then you can drive anyplace you wish.

more crap. same old crap. endless crap.

pud

climber

Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia

Feb 12, 2016 - 01:45pm PT

Rules made by an individual I doubt has ever spent one night in the desert.
Obama loves the golf courses of Palm Springs. That's what he knows about the California desert.

Protecting the desert by over regulating it does nothing but take away from those that would use and enjoy it most.
The people that truly love the desert care for it because they are there.

apogee

climber

Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy

Feb 12, 2016 - 01:46pm PT

Yes, guyman, these lands would have been in far better hands of private corporate extractive interests.

Edit: Pud, can you remind me what Bush knew about that massive protected ocean sanctuary that he created in his final year?

James Wilcox

Trad climber

Goleta/Virginia Lakes

Feb 12, 2016 - 01:47pm PT

BLM has always seemed more accommodating and organized than the NPS, but that's just my perspective.

Escopeta

Trad climber

Idaho

Feb 12, 2016 - 01:51pm PT

Maybe they will put up some windmills for good measure.

EDIT: I see guyman beat me to the punch

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

Feb 12, 2016 - 01:52pm PT

Cheers to you, Mate!

That's what I meant too. :-)

All the best to you.

CAC

Gym climber

Clairemont

Feb 12, 2016 - 02:15pm PT

No one applauds regulation, which seems to be more and more of a dirty word these days. However, the times you remember back in the day when JT and other similar places were wide open are long gone, never to return.

Reasonable users with a low-impact mentality are now in the very small minority. Do you have any interest in attempting to keep these places from being completely trashed? If so, outrage over more regulation is not consistent with that interest.

This comes from someone who has spent many years out on the California desert sand and has seen first-hand the devastation caused by unregulated use.

10b4me

Mountain climber

Retired

Feb 12, 2016 - 02:17pm PT

If it keeps the offroaders out of there (eventually), I'm all for it.

I agree 100%, and I am all for grabbing land if it protects it from development.

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Feb 12, 2016 - 02:17pm PT

Yes, guyman, these lands would have been in far better hands of private corporate extractive interests.

App.... IMHO... the lands were doing just fine the way it has been going. The BLM is the best way to "protect" land... but this is just my opinion.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Feb 12, 2016 - 02:19pm PT

Designation will attract more people and require more regs.

The way things seem to go everywhere.

I guess that getting to go into the desert in the year 2 BC (before cams) and cherry picking cool lines makes me one of the luckiest climbers. knock wood

10b4me

Mountain climber

Retired

Feb 12, 2016 - 02:20pm PT

I don't care. Those goddamn solar plants will not replace any of those other things. Solar plants are an addition to, and a stupid dead-end on the road to alternative energy.

They are creating a large negative effect on bird populations, and desert tortoise habitat.