Obama creates 3 new Nat. Monuments in Cali Desert --YAY!

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kief

Trad climber
east side
Feb 12, 2016 - 03:17pm PT
Yeah Batrock, first thing I thought when I read about this was Saline Valley. I'm an old timer there too, helped plant the baby palms at Palm Spring below Wizard's pool that are now 25 feet tall. We all opposed the Feinstein desert bill that added the Saline to DVNP and every one of the f*#kups we feared has come to pass. Huge increases in human impact and restrictions for the sake of restrictions are also playing out big-time in the Escalante country, a "beneficiary" of executive action by Bill Clinton. If there are any monkey wrenchers still around there's a whole new crop of inappropriately-sited visitor centers there in dire need of attention.
crunch

Social climber
CO
Feb 12, 2016 - 03:38pm PT
Huge increases in human impact and restrictions for the sake of restrictions are also playing out big-time in the Escalante country, a "beneficiary" of executive action by Bill Clinton. If there are any monkey wrenchers still around there's a whole new crop of inappropriately-sited visitor centers there in dire need of attention.

Correlation does not equal causation. Since 1990s, number of people visiting Moab area has grown enormously, insanely. Everywhere is affected, NPS units but also the little-known lands are over-run with recreational users, Bartlett Wash, Sand Flats, Behind the Rocks, Mystery Towers, Monitor/Merrimac area. These visitors come mostly from Colorado Front Range, SLC areas. Some never leave.

About a decade or two later, CA semi-retirees are visiting Zion, St George, Cedar City, gradually spreading north and east. St George is growing like crazy, right now. The lands between St George and Moab are inevitably being impacted.

Increase in visitation/impact around GSENM is caused by relentless population/visitation growth, young retirees, recreation boom. Bill Clinton, not so much.
seano

Mountain climber
none
Feb 12, 2016 - 03:48pm PT
The BLM is the best way to "protect" land... but this is just my opinion.
You use "best" and "protect" in a very peculiar sense of those words. BLM land is the place you go when you want to drive drunk on an ATV, then set a prostitute on fire (please prefer existing fire rings). BLM-style rules have their place (e.g. Barstow), but I'd hardly call them "best."
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Feb 12, 2016 - 03:50pm PT
I can't fault retirees for moving to southern Utah or any other beautiful location, seems logical to me. I know plenty of folks who move from Los Angeles or other big cities to places like Utah, the Eastern Sierra or the Northwest and only a short time after moving are bitching and moaning about all the people moving into their area and how it ain't like it used to be. Hell, I'd move out of this $hithole of Los Angeles in a heartbeat if I could. I think wilderness use though is entirely different. It seems like the less a place is talked about or "made special" by the government the less impact it sees. There are huge tracts of BLM land still in California and Nevada that I frequent that are empty and I never see anyone for days. It used to be like that in the Saline too, until they made it special.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Feb 12, 2016 - 03:58pm PT
Soon it will go from Monument to Wilderness.

Proponents of the wilderness will argue that the land is being raped due to lack of restrictions and regulations. "We're loving it to death!" they will proclaim. Like some type of twisted humane society ad for the planet complete with Sara McLaughlin singing a ballad. Maybe that teary-eyed Indian from days gone by.

And people like me will ask "if the land is still in good enough shape to be considered for wildness designation, if can't be too bad off...I'd say that's good management overall"

Then it will be designated wilderness and future generations will be closed off from any kind of reasonable access.

Hooray for regulations. Its a race to the bottom.
CAC

Gym climber
Clairemont
Feb 12, 2016 - 04:03pm PT
Hell, I'd move out of this $hithole of Los Angeles in a heartbeat if I could.

Last time I checked there is a flight out of LAX every 8 minutes...

I think wilderness use though is entirely different. It seems like the less a place is talked about or "made special" by the government the less impact it sees. There are huge tracts of BLM land still in California and Nevada that I frequent that are empty and I never see anyone for days. It used to be like that in the Saline too, until they made it special.

Very common refrain from the "no regulation" crowd, with no evidence to support it. "It seems a lot busier now" is not evidence. As Crunch mentioned, correlation does not equal causation.

Does anyone actually think that JT would have less impact now if it was never made a National Monument/Park? If so, I must have missed something in the 100s of days I've spent in the JT backcountry, almost never seeing a sign of human passage other than a bolt here or there...
David Knopp

Trad climber
CA
Feb 12, 2016 - 04:12pm PT
escopeta-you say will be closed off from reasonable access. What exactly do you mean?
I'm only asking so i don't yell needlessly...
looking sketchy there...

Social climber
Lassitude 33
Feb 12, 2016 - 04:13pm PT
Right On!

Most of the lands were acquired by private individuals. They exercised their "property rights" -- isn't that what those who espouse "privatization" claim is the "right" way of doing things? But, it seems that since they were not bent on pillaging it for short term monetary gain, now what they did is somehow wrong.

Ralph Waldo Emerson famously opined that "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." But, it seems that those decrying this event would modify it to (as M loved to say): "consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Feb 12, 2016 - 04:19pm PT
Every president tries to do this in their last year in office, secures their legacy. Still, pretty darn nice, now we have a place in the desert for Bundy's gang.
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Feb 12, 2016 - 04:20pm PT
From my experience more regulation usually comes with more roads, more signs, more buildings, more people. Edward Abbey was a pretty smart guy.
looking sketchy there...

Social climber
Lassitude 33
Feb 12, 2016 - 04:26pm PT
From my experience more regulation usually comes with more roads, more signs, more buildings, more people.

It has been my experience that more regulation is the natural consequence of people behaving badly. Self regulation only works with those with a degree of self restraint and good sense. Qualities that are less common these days.
Spiny Norman

Social climber
Boring, Oregon
Feb 12, 2016 - 04:32pm PT
Apparently, a minority of the posters here think the Bureau of Livestock and Mining doesn't allow the land to be used up and shat out for the short-term profit of a few lucky duckies fast enough.

Well done, Obama. Well done.
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Feb 12, 2016 - 04:33pm PT
I guess I should just enjoy open spaces while I can then. I think we all should.
Spiny Norman

Social climber
Boring, Oregon
Feb 12, 2016 - 04:39pm PT
No regulation worked better when the endless frontier was endless.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Feb 12, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
escopeta-you say will be closed off from reasonable access. What exactly do you mean?
I'm only asking so i don't yell needlessly..

In the case of wilderness? Its more like closed off from all access with the exception of foot traffic and the ranchers that can drive anywhere they like to manage their cattle which roam the "wilderness" freely.

You see, when land gets designated wilderness, all roads are closed. Instantly. So even if there was only one road in and one road out, that road gets closed. So the only way you get to see that canyon, or that expanse or that ridge, is to strap on your backpack and go.

Which frankly I would be a full supporter of, except I don't want to have to wipe cow sh#t from my boots while humping three days to get to a nice spot (that you previously could drive within a few hours walk) only to see the rancher running balls out across the countryside on his ATV after a heifer.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Feb 12, 2016 - 04:47pm PT

I still remember being able to....

The world turns, hang on or jump off.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Feb 12, 2016 - 04:56pm PT
Which frankly I would be a full supporter of, except I don't want to have to wipe cow sh#t from my boots while humping three days to get to a nice spot (that you previously could drive within a few hours walk) only to see the rancher running balls out across the countryside on his ATV after a heifer.


Oh, I see you have hiked into the east side of Domeland wilderness.... walking endlessly on the dirt we all one time drove down.... and while you trudge in the hot sun you look at the tire marks, put down by mr. Ranger boy who drove out there yesterday. .... that is wilderness?????

I 100% support real wilderness....and its protection.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Feb 12, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
Swimming in Wooden Fire reserve tanks in the Verdugo's, Sex without fear of dying, Front row Zeppelin, Sabbath, etc.. tickets for $7.50, Half as many souls roaming the earth, $.25 a gallon gas, JTree the way it was meant to be, Open Desert and freeee love!!
I miss all these things but am really glad I enjoyed them while they were here.

Looking forward, I'll always carry keys to the desert.

Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Feb 12, 2016 - 05:29pm PT
Pud, swimming in wooden tanks in the Verdugos?? You are really showing your age. The last time I was able to do that was over 35-40 years ago.
David Knopp

Trad climber
CA
Feb 12, 2016 - 06:41pm PT
Escopeta is it true there is an exception to the no motors in wilderness, for ranchers or miners too i guess, if their claims predate the designation? i always thought a wilderness designation meant no motorized vehicles of any sort, for any reason except emergencies at the discretion of the superintendent. No mountain biking for example.
Messages 41 - 60 of total 125 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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