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philo
climber
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Oct 11, 2015 - 08:04am PT
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Hey chuff stfu!
More Americans killed by guns since 1968 than in all U.S. wars, columnist Nicholas Kristof writes
By Louis Jacobson on Thursday, August 27th, 2015 at 4:13 p.m.
Union and Confederate soldiers engaged in combat during the attack of the Massachusetts 54th Infantry Regiment on Fort Wagner, South Carolina, July 18, 1863, by Currier & Ives. (Library of Congress)
Beth Hegarty, who was inside Sandy Hook Elementary School the day of the shooting, marches over the Brooklyn bridge during the third annual Brooklyn bridge march and rally to end gun violence on May 9, 2015, in New York City. (AP/Mary Altaffer)
In a column published shortly after the on-air slayings of two TV journalists in southwestern Virginia, the New York Times’ Nicholas Kristof offered some "data points" about the pervasiveness of gun violence in the United States.
One of them was: "More Americans have died from guns in the United States since 1968 than on battlefields of all the wars in American history."
That sounded familiar. Really familiar. As it turns out, the web version of Kristof’s column sourced a PolitiFact article from Jan. 18, 2013, that fact-checked commentator Mark Shields’ claim that since 1968, "more Americans have died from gunfire than died in … all the wars of this country's history." (Shields used the year 1968 because it was the year presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy was assassinated by gunman Sirhan Sirhan.)
We rated the claim True.
Two and a half years later, we wondered whether the statistic still held up, so we took a new look at the data.
Deaths from warfare
We found a comprehensive study of war-related deaths published by the Congressional Research Service on Feb. 26, 2010, and we supplemented that with data for up-to-date deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan using the website icasualties.org. Where possible, we’ve used the broadest definition of "death" — that is, all war-related deaths, not just those that occurred in combat.
The one change we’ve made since our initial fact-check is to revise upward the number of Civil War deaths. As several readers pointed out after we published our earlier fact-check, the CRS report cited 525,000 Union and Confederate dead, but a subsequent study revised that estimate upward to 750,000. The study’s author acknowledged a great deal of uncertainty about the proper figure, and some experts later questioned whether it’s wise to include so many deaths from disease — perhaps two-thirds of the 750,000 figure — since disease in an era of relatively primitive medicine was so widespread that it’s unclear what share of fatal disease during that period was really a result of the war.
Still, we’ll err on the side of the higher estimate and use the 750,000 figure this time.
Here’s a summary of deaths by major conflict:
War
Deaths
Revolutionary War
4,435
War of 1812
2,260
Mexican War
13,283
Civil War (Union and Confederate, estimate)
750,000
Spanish-American War
2,446
World War I
116,516
World War II
405,399
Korean War
36,574
Vietnam War
58,220
Persian Gulf War
383
Afghanistan War
2,363
Iraq War
4,492
Other wars (includes Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, Somalia and Haiti)
362
TOTAL
1,396,733
Gunfire deaths
As we did in our previous fact-check, we used a conservative estimate of data from a 1994 paper published by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to count gun-related deaths from 1968 to 1980. For 1981 through 2013, we used annual data sets from CDC. Finally, for 2014 and the first eight months of 2015, we estimated that the number of gun-related deaths were equal to the rate during the previous three full years for which we have data — 2011 to 2013.
Here is a summary. The figures below refer to total deaths caused by firearms:
------------------and this just gun deaths from 1968!
Years
Firearm-related deaths
1968 to 1980
377,000
1981 to 1998
620,525
1999 to 2013
464,033
2014
(estimated based on rate from 2011-2013)
33,183
2015
(estimated based on rate from 2011-2013)
22,122
TOTAL, 1968-2015
1,516,863
So the statistic still holds up: There have been 1,516,863 gun-related deaths since 1968, compared to 1,396,733 cumulative war deaths since the American Revolution. That’s 120,130 more gun deaths than war deaths -- about 9 percent more, or nearly four typical years worth of gun deaths. And that’s using the most generous scholarly estimate of Civil War deaths, the biggest component of American war deaths.
We’ll offer some added thoughts for context.
These figures refer to all gunfire-related deaths, not just homicides. In fact, homicides represent a minority of gun deaths, with suicides comprising the biggest share. In 2013, according to CDC data, 63 percent of gun-related deaths were from suicides, 33 percent were from homicides, and roughly 1 percent each were from accidents, legal interventions and undetermined causes.
There’s a risk in using a statistic like this to decry mass homicides carried out with guns. Using total firearm-related deaths makes the case against guns more dramatic than just using homicides alone.
However, in our view, Kristof framed this comparison with care. He mentioned suicides not once but three times in his column, and he referred broadly to the "unrelenting toll of gun violence," not specifically to the toll of gun homicides. Indeed, at one point, Kristof specifically referenced the impact that stricter gun laws can have on gun suicides, writing that in 1996, after a mass shooting in Australia, lawmakers tightened gun laws. "The firearm suicide rate dropped by half in Australia over the next seven years, and the firearm homicide rate was almost halved," according to data published in the Journal of Public Health Policy, Kristof wrote.
Finally, we’ll note that Kristof’s wording differed ever so slightly from the claim by Shields that we checked previously. While Shields said that "more Americans have died from gunfire," Kristof wrote that "more Americans have died from guns." Some may argue that guns don’t kill people, people do. However, that’s a philosophical judgment and beyond our ability to fact-check. Here, we’ll stick to the numbers, and we find they’re on Kristof’s side.
Our ruling
Kristof wrote, "More Americans have died from guns in the United States since 1968 than on battlefields of all the wars in American history."
Even using a significantly higher estimate for Civil War deaths than we did the last time we fact-checked this claim, the comparison still holds up. The number of gun deaths since 1968 — including, as Kristof was careful to note, both homicides and suicides — was higher than war fatalities by roughly 120,000 deaths, or almost four years’ worth of gun deaths in the United States. We rate the claim True.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Oct 11, 2015 - 08:10am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Thanks Philco for confirming that you are in FACT a stoogebag parroting totally full of shet politard crankaloon.
Now go roll another one and come up with more... stoogebag parroting totally lib politard crankaloon bullshet.
The least you can do here is maintain some consistency in your proliferation of bullshet, Philco.
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philo
climber
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Oct 11, 2015 - 08:11am PT
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Lil chuffie you are the foulest f*#khead on the forum.
I suggest you get your mommy to read my post to you so you won't have to suffer with your usual reading comprehension and cognitive dissonance issues.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Oct 11, 2015 - 08:17am PT
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Here's a pretty crazy statistic.... Gun Ownership in Philco's home state is on the increase bigtime.
I got $5 that Philco himself is packing... hypocrite.
Well-armed young women help spike (Colorado) growing gun-ownership numbers
Posted December 2, 2013, 11:50 a.m. by Katharina Buchholz
published in The Boulder Daily Camera on Dec. 1, 2013 and in The Coloradoan on Nov. 24.
By Kendall Brunette
CU News Corps
The Well Armed Woman — their slogan is “Where the Feminine and Firearm Meet” — advertises stylish purses designed for concealed carry.
Another online retailer, Pistols & Pumps — “Concealed and High Heeled” — offers pink camouflage hats and bra-mounted holsters.
Gungoddess.com — the name, apparently, is sufficient — sells a variety of “gun bling,” including leopard-print handgun grips and zebra-print ear protection.
Such items may seem odd to some, but these retailers understand their customer base — a group of young, strong, determined and armed women. And just because their bullets may be fired from pistols with rhinestone-studded grips doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be taken seriously.
These women are among a growing population of gun owners who fiercely fight for their right to own and carry a gun for self-protection.
“A woman with pepper spray is smart, a woman who takes self-defense is prepared, but a woman with a gun is scary,” said Rachael Makowski, a 25-year-old nanny in Westminster, Colo. “And when it comes down to my life or theirs, I want them to be just as afraid of me as I am of them.”
Self-reported gun ownership — among both men and women in the U.S. — is the highest it has been since 1993.
A 2011 Gallup poll found that 47 percent of all Americans claimed to have a gun in their home. Of those Americans, 43 percent of women reported they live with guns in their homes. In February 2013, Gallup reported that 15 percent of all American women personally owned a gun.
In Colorado, the number of FBI background checks for gun purchases over the first 10 months of 2013 — 433,482 — has already eclipsed last year’s total by nearly 20,000.
Hey PHilco... I suggest you start with your local female Coloradoan's before you EVEN suggest going national.
Dumbazz.
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philo
climber
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Oct 11, 2015 - 08:20am PT
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Oct 11, 2015 - 08:25am PT
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In Colorado, the number of FBI background checks for gun purchases over the first 10 months of 2013 — 433,482 — has already eclipsed last year’s total by nearly 20,000.
Fking Colorado GUN FREAKOIDS.... Philco's neighbors. No wonder he's paranoid.
Nothing like a bunch of stoned gun owners walking around aimlessly with nothing else to do than.... SHOOT!
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philo
climber
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Oct 11, 2015 - 08:26am PT
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Oct 11, 2015 - 08:32am PT
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Hey Chief. Re your reponse to Bluering:
Oct 10, 2015 - 11:08pm PT
"It's a written test but you have to read up to get a 100% score"
Retired Military with valid/current Retired DOD ID are exempt from taking the written test.
It's damn good you don't need to take a test to get a firearm. With the 3rd grade reading comprehension you've shown on this thread, you'd never pass a written test.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Oct 11, 2015 - 08:32am PT
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Nice try Fruitz. You're just jealous cus it takes you a whole month or more to study up on your test. Or do you even have a test in Idaho. Nope.
Luckily for you Fruitz. No test.
But, the Federal Gov't/FBI/ATF recognizes the reality that we Retired Vets are well versed on the proper use and ownership of a weapon.
AND, that they are simply a tool and not a piece of identity as you well show your guns are...
Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 6, 2015 - 08:30pm PT
I Love my guns....
Do you "sleep" with your "guns", Fruitz??? I got $10 states you do. Gotta keep em .... warm!
Another startling Colorado Gun Death statistic...
Gun related deaths are on the rise since 2006 and have over taken motor vehicle deaths...
https://kaiserhealthnews.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/firearms_deaths_in_co_2004_2011.pdf
Philco loves residing around gun freaks. Loves it....
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philo
climber
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Oct 11, 2015 - 09:11am PT
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Cool chiefie you've finally acknowledged that guns are killing more people than cars.
Keep working.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Oct 11, 2015 - 09:29am PT
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How do you justify using modern electronic means to exercise your First Amendment Right, when at the time the Constitution was written, those white slave owners only had access to a Gutenberg Press to exercise theirs?
Philo's posts should all be written with a feather dipped in ink, and mailed to C-Mac for inclusion here, if he really stands for what says he believes.
Try doing that 100 times a day, if you love the First Amendment that much.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Oct 11, 2015 - 09:35am PT
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Oct 11, 2015 - 10:03am PT
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The U.N. has been run out of multiple places by illiterate cavemen wielding small arms.
The U.N. isn't exactly the I.D.F. you know.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Oct 11, 2015 - 10:13am PT
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“You’d need 1,000 DVDs to store all of the genetic information contained in a single teaspoon of fecal matter,”
-Rob Knight, UCSD
Probably need no DVD to store all the mis-information here.
EDIT: er ... the sum of "all the information and misinformation", still results in no DVD.
"I don't like it, but I guess things happen that way"
-Johnny Cash
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Oct 11, 2015 - 11:39am PT
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Cool chiefie you've finally acknowledged that guns are killing more people than cars.... solely IN Colorado!
FIFY Philco....
Now, work on your Liberal Democratic Governor (John Wright Hickenlooper, Jr.) who is allowing for all this to happen since 2011. And another Democrat Governor before him since 2007. Amazingly that is when this increase starting taking place, btw. Which is also actually consistent with the rest of the Nation where "Gun Violence" is dangerously on the rise. All locations including this Nation, are and have been under Democratic Leadership.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.. statistics and facts suck don't they, Philco!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^YUP... ZB!
zBrown
Ice climber
Oct 11, 2015 - 10:13am P
Probably need no DVD to store all the mis-information here.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Oct 11, 2015 - 03:06pm PT
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INVISIBLE BITING BUGS
The problem is people are not researching the right information. I know because for the last week I was looking up "Invisible Biting bugs or parasites on my skin" and that led me nowhere.
Anyways, after reading what mold spores are, the symptoms are the same exact thing as what I was experiencing. House plants, cold water vaporizers, humidifiers, and dirty air vents can be sources of airborne mold spores, mildews, and bacteria that could cause skin reactions that feel like invisible bugs biting on your skin consistently.
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philo
climber
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Oct 11, 2015 - 03:35pm PT
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Oct 11, 2015 - 04:02pm PT
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BFD!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Who the fk gives a flying ratsass!
I have never been nor do I ever intend to be a member of the NRA. Fact is, most of my Retired Shipmates are in the same "Boat".
Reason: Who the fk wants their name on a public list as to possibly owing any "guns". Dah!
God you people are sooooooooooooooooo fking stooooooooooooooooopid.
Seriously.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Oct 11, 2015 - 04:21pm PT
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+1 chief
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