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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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My condolences to the families and friends of those struck down.
I could politicize about this, but what is the use. The same old voices will come out in various factors. I have learned that on this forum and in real life, people's opinions do not change much, for the most part. Eyes stayed blinkered or indeed, wearing rose-tinetd glasses. The kool-aid tastes good. People set in mindsets, without the freedom to really think for themselves. I have fallen into that trap myself, especially regarding personal issues.
A diverse humanity that clings to being myopic. Woods, trees? No thought, no brains?
Blame Obama, blame the cops, blame the Dems, blame the GOPs, blame Castro, blame ISIS, blame the cop-haters. blame Hilary, blame Putin, blame the KKK, the ACLU and other radicals, blame trump, blame the almighty, blame Planned Parenthood, blame all of Congress, blame...
...blame my navel.
Another black, sad day in history.
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cleo
Social climber
wherever you go, there you are
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I'd prefer a ban on handguns.
Mass, random shootings are not the real problem, impulsive and accidental shootings are.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab or In What Time Zone Am I?
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Another black, sad day in history.
So true. More heart ache.
Susan
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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May I please add to my previous post…
I am as confused as some people, about the "mysteries", "inadequacies", "inequalities", heck pick any words, of life.
Some nutcase goes crazy in Oregon. Some nutcase goes crazy in Damascus. Some nutcase goes crazy in the Pentagon or the Kremlin, or Iran or North Korea, or Modesto. Some nutcase goes crazy in Senate, the White House, or a bible college. Or in ISIS, or in…
And we can sit here and pontificate (I used that word earlier in another thread, I wonder if I know what it means), those who claim to have years of experience in SAR, military, baby creches, or just downtown cinemas.
And yet, life continues, for better of for worse. I do not know what happened today in Oregon. I have not sat on an aircraft carrier watching..., or been an LEO pointing guns at people or having guns pointed at me (well, once in Yosemite, but that's another story I have told).
I do not know shet eff all. But I do know that there are plenty of good people out there, some who agree with me, and some who do not. But we do not resort to extremes to push our points. Maybe a bit of name calling and ad hominem attacks (not me, I hope).
I occasionally surf other websites and forums, and the vitriol, the hatred that can come out. Even in the US the divisiveness, the poison.
Are we not better as intelligent sentient beings to arise above such hostility?
Reasonable discourse? Yes.
Madness and hatred? No.
Is it perpetual?
What happened today in Oregon?
I don't know, but it will not shake my belief in humanity. It just saddens me to no end.
And then people will jump on the bandwagons. Right or wrong.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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…though rates of gun homicide in the United States are still much higher than those in other developed nations.
That's the part I'd focus on. How come the "Greatest Nation on Earth" isn't leading the way? Is your ability to compensate for other shortcomings really worth the baggage it entails?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Anybody read the article I posted by someone who disses the NRA and is in
favor of strict gun control? I didn't expect so - it might challenge some
of your cherished misconceptions.
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c wilmot
climber
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While people work on passing "yes means yes" laws that if interpreted literally would mean college kids risk rape charges without a written contract-these kids remain stressed out and often mentally ill.
Bickering about guns and how to control their social lives even more will do nothing.
perhaps its how society is treating this demographic that is the issue rather than the guns that have historically always been available. this is a new phenom- obviously society is failing our youth
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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The one w the logical fallacy about how an arms race("I can't defend myself against someone bigger and stronger than me, so I'll get a gun, bet he won't think of that") will prevent more violence?
Yep, read it, less offensively stupid than much of what I've read on the topic, but still full of holes.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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I read about half of it, Reilly...it's pretty much where I stand, too.
Still, the gun-nutz extremists can't understand such a nuanced position...they have been perfectly programmed by the NRA to accept no compromise on anything.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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One more add to my two posts on this thread.
I have my hands full in life trying to cope with everyday issues, with Jennie being in a nursing home for the foreseeable future, with money problems (who doesn't?)
Yet, we do have the time to sit on Suptertopo and other forums to express our views. What a luxury many do not have. And I count my blessings and the heavens above.
I cannot claim to be a chief or a SAR superstar, or a 5.15 climber or climbing the Cassin Ridge blindfolded. Or sufing with dophins or great whites (well, Santa Cruz and Monterey, one never knows).
I do not know what happened in Oregon, just what I read.
I do know some of the shyte I read on this forum, the chest-beating, the brow-beating, those who have years of "experience" who dictate, and those who are noobs.
As for me, heck people, I still have to take off my shoes to count to 20.
As an ex-catholic turned atheist, I just hope that there is a special place in the heavens for the many poor souls that die needlessly, in Oregon and beyond. At the hands of the ill. Be it in the name of God, country, or one's own "fantasies and realities", it is not right.
But then, life is fair. Isn't it?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Anybody read the article I posted by someone who disses the NRA and is in favor of strict gun control? I didn't expect so - it might challenge some of your cherished misconceptions.
Yes, I read it. Well written, and well thought out.
As I interpret it, his view is that the problem of gun violence in America lies with Americans, not with guns. Or, maybe more accurately, that the solution, if there is one, lies with Americans.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Take the guns away it is time to grow up.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Whell, if you want to categorize mass murderers, White Christian males top all categories.
I'm way more scared of them than ISIS.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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^^^
FAKT!!
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Libs love to make up stuff like the above (it's all white Christians, and I'm really really afraid of them!))
If you look at the facts, whites and blacks commit mass shootings at about their percentage of the population, and for who knows what reason, Asians commit a lot more, Latinos a lot less.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/27/us/mass-shootings/
"If you look at the whole list, it turns out that whites and blacks are pretty proportionate to their population, very close," said Dave Cullen, author of the book "Columbine," which tells the story of the 1999 massacre at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. Harris and Klebold, the shooters there, were white.
Historically, Latinos and Asians have been the exception . . .
"Latinos are almost nowhere to be seen," Cullen told CNN's "New Day." "Asians continue to be heavily overrepresented -- more than 2˝ times their size in the population."
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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A sad day.
Condolences to the families and friends of those killed.
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David Lewis
Trad climber
North Conway,New Hampshire
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If one were to get all firearms out of the hands of both the citizens and most of the police it would stop some of the deaths but the deep underlying cause would still prevail. We have an attitude problem in this country which is very complex. Stress and economic factors are big drivers of the violence we see happening but there is much more that contributes to it. The problem with banning firearms in this country can be quickly evaluated by looking at the ban on drugs which we all know doesn't work.
Panama with its strict gun control is contemplating a reversal to get armed law abiding citizens to help stop the massive gun problems they have with the criminal element. We do not have a gun problem when suicides by firearm are taken out of the equation in comparison to other highly developed nations (they have comparable suicide rates using other means thus giving false stats). I don't have an immediate solution to our problem if I thought for 1 second that an all out ban on firearms would work I would help round them up. Statistics by the CDC directed by the Obama administration did not indicate a ban would work which might explain why we do not see them.
Most importantly: I want to express my sincere condolences to all those close to this tragic event
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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FACT..No new legislation will occur. Fact several 1000 other people died in the US today.
Fact Research into Cancer and heart Disease..investment in Universal Healthcare and healthcare cost reform will save more lives than ANY effort in gun control...
NONE OF THIS WILL CHANGE ANY OF THIS.
WHY?? Because your government does not work for the people. It works for those who elect them...Wealthy interests only. You have no say until you focus on a workable solution.
Once enough people FOCUS on a workable solution then positive change will occur. Until then.. I'm gunna have a good life anyway until I die.
I feel lucky to live in a country where I have the ability to keep my head down below the radar and enjoy some freedom.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Meh Jody..this sad tragedy doesn't even come close to a top ten list of serious threats to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness in this land.
Gun control WONT HAPPEN..and really has little impact on the majority anyway..
Sadly the things that do matter wont be addressed anytime soon either...
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