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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Sep 18, 2015 - 10:03am PT
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Torture a child? Well that escalated quickly.
I'm just saying don't be too quick to judge the people working at the school, they're constantly on edge being in charge of the safety of so many children. The law enforcement who is trained for such things can be critiqued a little more, though they are under the same pressure.
EDIT: oh, I see, you weren't talking to me. My bad.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Sep 18, 2015 - 10:05am PT
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Im a teacher, I don't care what the kids name was, this would have freaked me out.
I'll bet. A briefcase just like the one that you carry every day.
Very suspicious. You should be thrown up against the wall, handcuffed, taken to jail.
Of course, no charges filed, although "Bomb threat" might be reasonable....you had things in your briefcase that COULD have been used to build a bomb! And suspension for a week would be in order, as well.
Now, we're talking JUSTICE!
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Sep 18, 2015 - 10:08am PT
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Then you are just as stupid as the cops.
You are saying that you would depend upon the word of a suspected terrorist, as to whether a bomb was a bomb?????
It's a little more complicated than that.
According to the police chief, they pretty quickly realized that it wasn't a real bomb, but then the focus turned to whether it was a "hoax bomb."
That's why I pointed out that Ahmed apparently never denied that it was a bomb with what, to my ear at least, sounds like a Clinton-esque answer (or refusal to answer).
Let me put it another way in case you're not getting the gist of this:
The question: "is that a bomb?" has a yes or no answer.
Replying that "it's a clock" is what lawyers call "non-responsive." It's not a legitimate answer.
I don't think Ahmed was doing this, but it's easy to imagine a teenager having some fun by building something that sort of looked like a bomb and making vague statements and then refusing to deny that it was a bomb with evasive non-answers.
Look I'm not entirely defending the officials here, just pointing out that their actions were perhaps not quite as crazy as they're being portrayed.
Also, keep in mind that this is a situation where a "false positive" leads to the inconvenience and embarrassment for the kid (unfortunate, but life goes on), whereas a "false negative" means BOOOM! (As to the hoax part of it, there's no boom, but you can't let me people go around making bomb threats, even implicit ones.)
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Sep 18, 2015 - 10:08am PT
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I'm just saying don't be too quick to judge the people working at the school, they're constantly on edge being in charge of the safety of so many children.
Why the punishment of the suspension, if he did nothing wrong??
If you did nothing wrong, would you accept a suspension as appropriate?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Sep 18, 2015 - 10:14am PT
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That's why I pointed out that Ahmed's apparently never denied that it was a bomb with what, to my ear at least, sounds like a Clinton-esque answer (or refusal to answer).
Let me put it another way in case you're not getting the gist of this:
The question: "is that a bomb?" has a yes or no answer.
Replying that "it's a clock" is what lawyers call "non-responsive." It's not a legitimate answer.
You weren't there. You don't know how he specifically and gramatically responded.
But in your "Clockwork Orange" world, why would you ask a person if something was something that you KNEW FOR A FACT it was not? Again and again?
Let's put you in handcuffs, surround you with hostile cops 4 times your size/weight, REFUSE to allow you your constitutionally required lawyer/parents(in his case), then repeatedly ask you "How long have you been raping kids???" You answer I haven't raped ANY kids.
AHA! AHA! YOU REFUSED TO ANSWER THE QUESTION! You evasive piece of sh*t!
The question: "is that a bomb?" has a yes or no answer.
Replying that "it's a clock" is what lawyers call "non-responsive." It's not a legitimate answer.
When EVERYONE IN THE ROOM knows that it is NOT a bomb, then the question becomes illegitimate. Are you going to ask him if he is armed? If he answers "You guys searched me three times"---is that an evasive answer?
Are you going to go to the judge and say that he was uncooperative?
OR was this misconduct?
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Sep 18, 2015 - 10:15am PT
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A briefcase like the one that you carry every day. Very suspicious. You should be thrown up against the wall, handcuffed, taken to jail.
Lol, look at that picture, that doesn't look much like the briefcase or contents I carry. I'm not saying the school or LEOs did everything, or anything, correct, just imagine you're a regular teacher and a kid shows up with that.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Sep 18, 2015 - 10:22am PT
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Lol, look at that picture, that doesn't look much like the briefcase or contents I carry.
It does when it is closed. Who knows what is inside? Who inspects? Perhaps you guys should be inspected more often, and a strip search might be good, as well.
I'm not saying the school or LEOs did everything, or anything, correct, just imagine you're a regular teacher and a kid shows up with that.
Presumably, you know the kids that you teach. Are you talking nerd? Are you talking troubled youth? Do teachers of children simply treat them as interchangeable widgets?
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Sep 18, 2015 - 10:24am PT
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Ken, I don't disagree with you as much as you seem to think, and you're right about pointing out that I don't know the specific wording used.
But that applies both ways--I'm mostly pointing out that it's *possible* that the officials' conduct wasn't as outrageous as has been portrayed.
You had a good question about why Ahmed was punished. I doubt we'll get to the bottom of that, but all I can figure is that (1) that was absolutely unjust, or (2) whoever gave the punishment concluded that Ahmed was in fact playing some kind of a "maybe I do have a bomb" game.
We just don't have enough facts to work with here.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Sep 18, 2015 - 10:28am PT
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That's why I pointed out that Ahmed apparently never denied that it was a bomb with what, to my ear at least, sounds like a Clinton-esque answer (or refusal to answer).
What makes you think he never denied that it was a bomb? Are you relying on his two or three sentence summary of an hour and a half interview?
I have a hard time believing that in that amount of time he never clearly said that what he'd made was not a bomb.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 18, 2015 - 10:29am PT
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Milk the goodwill for the month or two it lasts, before the next short-attention span American story comes along, then SUE THE SH#T out of these hillbilly as#@&%es.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Sep 18, 2015 - 10:33am PT
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I guess that I react to the concept that adults are not held to acting like it. With their knowledge and experience.
I do not think that he was playing the "maybe I do have a bomb", because he would have been charged with a "bomb hoax", and they would be singing that from the rooftops.
They are suspiciously silent on that front.
I am not into abuse of children, for any reason, and that seems to be the case, here. If they thought a bomb was a real issue, then interrogation would be reasonable. But if they did not, then the parents should have been called.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 18, 2015 - 10:36am PT
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Im a teacher, I don't care what the kids name was, this would have freaked me out.
Well, if you were his teacher and you responded the way his teacher did then I'd say you couldn't be bothered to learn anything at all about the kid or get to know him otherwise you'd have some inkling of what he was doing and what kind of kid he was - i.e. you'd be a lousy teacher.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Sep 18, 2015 - 10:42am PT
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Milk the goodwill for the month or two it lasts, before the next short-attention span American story comes along, then SUE THE SH#T out of these hillbilly as#@&%es.
Hard to see what his damages have been--he's going to White House (or at least has been invited), Facebook, Google, MIT, etc.!
Could be a great start to a good career for the kid, and certainly an interesting life experience.
But just so no one gets me wrong--I admit that we don't have all the facts, it's entirely possible (maybe even likely) that the school and cops were very much in the wrong and there should be additional training to make sure their behavior is corrected.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Sep 18, 2015 - 10:53am PT
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*
Not my words...
This is from~ The daily kos.
"Great Post Sent to Me Today"
"I said: it's sad they thought that kid had a bomb.
She said: they didn't think he had a bomb.
I said: yes, they thought he made a bomb and even called the police.
She said: They just wanted to humiliate a little Muslim boy. They didn't think he had a bomb.
I said: Don't be a conspiracy theorist. They might be a little prejudiced, but I'm sure they thought he had a bomb.
She said: OK.
But they didn't evacuate the school, like you do when there's a bomb.
They didn't call a bomb squad - like you do when there's a bomb.
They didn't get as far away from him as possible, like you do when there's a bomb.
Then they put him and the clock in an office: not like you do when there's a bomb
Then they waited with him for the police to arrive, and then they put the clock in the same car as the police.
Then they took pictures of it.
I said: Damn.....They never thought he had a bomb.
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Sep 18, 2015 - 11:11am PT
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If school officials were concerned that it was a bomb, then why wasn't the bomb squad called??
Hmmmmmm......
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Sep 18, 2015 - 11:15am PT
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Hard to see what his damages have been
Maybe you're not damaged by having your fingerprints in the criminals database, but I would be.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Sep 18, 2015 - 11:25am PT
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Presumably, you know the kids that you teach. Are you talking nerd? Are you talking troubled youth? Do teachers of children simply treat them as interchangeable widgets?
Two years ago we had a student who was always creepy. One month after graduation he shot someone and is in jail for life. Last year I had a tiny girl in my class who was friendly and one of my favorite students, over Christmas break she stabbed a girl for talking to her girlfriend. You have to be careful basing opinions on what you "know" about students. If I see a briefcase that looks like the one in the picture I'd rather have a false alarm and send him to the office than just figure it's probably a regular metal briefcase with wires and a timer.
Kid made a mistake, school made a mistake, law enforcement made a mistake. Happens all the time, it's not the apocalypse and it's only on the news because of his name.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 18, 2015 - 11:41am PT
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I blame Obomba.
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Norton
Social climber
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Sep 18, 2015 - 11:42am PT
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Kid made a mistake,
what mistake did the kid make?
was there a written warning handed out at the start of school to not make a clock and
bring it in to science class, if so then he made a mistake
not damaged
correct, a 14 year is handcuffed and arrested in front of his classmates and teacher
but there is no damage done........
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