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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Just curious Guapo, how many acres will produce how much wine? I know it varies, but if a guy had say 2 acres of vines, how much vino could he get? And how long from planting do you get enough yield to make wine? Just a rough estimate. Btw, I love vermentino. Where were your vines grown? Cali?
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2015 - 10:21am PT
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Waynno, a nice crop load would be 3 to 4 tons/acre then figure about 165 gallons/ton fuinished, so an acre at 3 tons would yield about 500 gallons of finished wine. At 2.4 gallons/case you'd get about 208 cases/acre. The standard barrel is 225 liters = 25 cases.
As far as soil, the Columbia Valley AVA is more driven by Missoula flood deposition and wind blown loess than volcanism; the Willamette Valley is more volcanically driven.
Wow Darwin, NICE grapes for Seattle!!!!
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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nice thread!
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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As far as soil, the Columbia Valley AVA is more driven by Missoula flood deposition and wind blown loess than volcanism; the Willamette Valley is more volcanically driven.
Interesting. I was thinking about the Italian varietals that I like so much such as Aglianico and Nerello Mascalese and that they are best grown on the slopes of volcanoes. I think that most of the slopes of volcanoes here in the U.S. are probably on National Park or National Forest land and therefore can't be cultivated. Even though there are plenty of volcanic soils in existence the actual slopes are different. Have you ever had a wine from Mt. Etna? They can taste like drinking rocks, and I say that in a good minerality kind of way.
So if I wanted to make enough wine for me and my wife and maybe a couple others, I think 20-30 cases a year, how much dirt, time and equipment am I talking about? Could I do this and still have time for a job or other things?
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2015 - 01:00pm PT
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If it were me I'd find a good vineyard and buy grapes each year. Buying 1/2 ton would be enough for abut 35 cases; you can make the wine in plastic garbage cans and store it in 5 gallon carboys before bottling. Good red grapes like Cab will cost $2000/ton or more, depending, and you would have to arrange transport. There are hand corkers that work pretty well for small volumes and it's a fun day getting stuff in bottles.
When I was doing this as an amateur in Seattle I used to get grapes through WWAWA, the Western Washington Amateur Winemakers Association. They transported the grapes to Woodinville where you could pick them up; I'm pretty sure they are still around.
If you buy from a vineyard they might sell you by the block not the ton and you could load it as you thought and have control of the growing process.
Regards the minerality, you are on the mark IMHO. I went to wine school in Napier NZ and a premium growing area there is the Gimblet Gravels; just old stony riverbed, almost impossible to get enough water to the fruit and it really struggles, but wow, good wines!
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Guck
Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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For those of you interested in the wine process, google "one acre napa valley" and start at episode 1. The series of videos are very practical, and explain things clearly. If you want to know more details about the process, you can also enroll in the EDX.com class on wine making, from the University of Adelaide. Enrollment is free, and they have tons of technical information. Cheers!!
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Yeah I could buy grapes here and make wine, in fact my good buddy Ghost who posts here has done that and it is not bad at all. I was wondering if in the near future, when I have a piece of dirt and some spare time, how much trouble it would be to put in some vines. It might not be prime grape growing territory but it might work out fine.I know them Canadians grow grapes in their Okanogan Valley, but I will probably be in the Okanogan Highlands south of there, a bit higher in elevation and a shorter growing season. I think of all the great wines from the Alpine regions of Northern Italy, so there must be some good possibilities.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2015 - 04:16pm PT
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Yeah, once you decide on your area investigate GDD (growing degree days) which will indicate how much heat you can expect. You can check GDD requirements for different varietals and find something that might work.
Some other factors are (incomplete list):
Slope (you want some so cold air runs off).
Which way the land slopes (south facing is better for sun).
You'll almost certainly have to irrigate.
Deer.
Frost potential; late frost can devastate a vineyard).
Length of growing season.
There are lots of ways to prune grapes, for a small vineyard you might bush prune which negates the need for trellises, but there are lots of other systems. You might have to grow a very light crop if the GDD is marginal, but that's not a bad thing.
The 'alpine' vineyards are usually alongside bodies of water which act as heat sinks and moderate cold nights or early frost, so that might be a consideration also.
I doubt you will be able to ripen grapes like Cab or Malbec; you would probably have more success with Riesling type stuff, or grow Chardonnay for sparkling base. You only need 19 brix for that!
Could be fun, but location will really tell you a lot about what's possible.
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L
climber
California dreamin' on the farside of the world..
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Hi Winemaker,
I just PM'ed you my address. Let me know if you received it. And thank you!
I went to wine school in Napier NZ
My stepson just spent 6 months Wwoofing in NZ. He said he learned an enormous amount about winemaking, but that they have a famous joke there:
Do you know how to make a small fortune making wine?
Start with a large fortune.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2015 - 03:56pm PT
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Scary stuff!!!!! The first free solo of 2014 Merlot 5.14d.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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If you made sake I'd be taken cuts in front of Jim. But I know he's a wine fan. Looks excellent.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Climbing? It kinda looks like you are surfing. Cutting a big turn on a sea of Merlot.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2015 - 05:26pm PT
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Well, that is sort of the Ibex leap across to the next barrel move; sort of back and forth. Pretty hard. Or I'm descending. I forget.
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L
climber
California dreamin' on the farside of the world..
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Sep 16, 2015 - 06:19am PT
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Totally unpaid advertisement for Roza Ridge Malbec Vintage 2012:
YOWZA!!! That's one great Malbec!
Where can I purchase this, Winemaker? They don't stock it in my local NY shoppe.
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Sep 16, 2015 - 08:50am PT
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Fun thread. Good stuff Winemaker.
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okie
Trad climber
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Sep 16, 2015 - 12:23pm PT
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It's a thin line to balance on, the line between connoisseur and wino.
Humans have been taking credit for fermentation for a long time, ever since a caveman found some grape juice that he had forgotten about in the back of his cave. "Taste what Zog do!"
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 16, 2015 - 01:47pm PT
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So true.
Some recent ancient digs in Northern Italy revealed the use of wood barrels for winemaking that push back previous estimates of their first use quite a bit. I had heard that amphorae was what they used and the quality as we consider today is questionable. Seems that is changing.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 16, 2015 - 03:21pm PT
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Glad you liked it L. I made about 180 cases and it hasn't been released yet, so not available anywhere. But, if you're interested, I could work something out for you with a very good climber's discount; shipping is the killer. I'll message you about it. I'm prejudiced but think it's double gold material and will only get better.
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