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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 12, 2015 - 10:30am PT
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Some Americans do and some Americans don't. Some people do and some don't. Nobody gets it their way all the time.
You post some of the coolest stuff on this forum, Avery. But that is just my viewpoint. What I don't understand is why people complain so much about something not going in a direction they like when it was never meant to be that way. Did you sign on here thinking that it would always be just how you wanted it? You could plainly see by just observation alone that this never happens here or any place in the world.
How does one find that place where all is good? Not by changing the world with all it's faults , but by changing the way you look at it. The former, impossible, the latter, liberating.
How does one assess the degree of truth in any statement? By the degree one acquires liberation.
"the argumentative defense of any proposition is inversely proportional to the the truth contained."
If life was a poker game and you win every hand, nobody would want to play with you anymore.
That said, I think you are a gift here, Avery.
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Aug 12, 2015 - 10:47am PT
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My current view point is from the climbing mecca that is Eastern Washington.
Almost everyone I climb with is under 30. They don't seem to care much about the history of climbing. Couldn't tell John Bachar from Johnny Carson. They do know who the current crop of internet/social media climbing stars are but they don't seem to go much further back.
BUT, they have incredible energy and stoke. I think it is more a physical game for them. They aren't looking for an alternative social outlet. They just love to climb (and run, ultimate frisbee, hang out etc.). They just are not looking for a bigger meaning in climbing.
Sometimes I think they are being goofy kids but I find more often their energy and enthusiasm gives me that little extra I need!!
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Aug 12, 2015 - 10:56am PT
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Avery, next time you go to a world class art museum, watch how much time the average person spends looking at a masterpiece. And that work probably took the artist a month or more to paint.
The art is certainly valued, but you might not know it from the individual appreciation it is given. It's best to do things for your own satisfaction and not have any expectation of feedback. Look at Marlow! Some of his threads get 1-2 replies, but he keeps plugging away! As many have said, views are not tallied on posts, only comments.
Your threads are like little works of art. I do look at them often and appreciate them. But I'm a lot more interested in living my life and doing things in the real world than in spending time here, so I don't even have time to read every climbing-related post many days.
Stick around Avery, we appreciate your input.
Phyl
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Aug 12, 2015 - 11:19am PT
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What are your views? Is there too much climbing history on supertopo (or not enough)? What do people like myself need to do to engage the reader?
It comes down to what YOU enjoy. If you enjoy the research and historic aspect about some of the climbs, you should not care about how useful is it to public in general. Unless you do it for the public.
Personally, at times I read about some of the historic climbs. But I like the actual climbing more than finding out who did the 3rd ascent of Mt. Robson, how many hours did House/Twight/Bakes take on the Slovac Direct or who did the first ascent of the North America wall. Unless I am interested in some area or a particular story, I would rather read about ways I can improve own climbing technique. For example, when I was going to Hyalite for the first time, I read the Alpinist magazine Hyalite profile, and found it damn interesting. Would I read a Ouray profile if it came out today? Nope. But someone will....
My point is that there is always SOMEONE out there that finds these things interesting if they come across it. I bet some lurkers who won't ever post on this forum find the research you do interesting, and you will never know. If YOU are excited about it, that's the reason to continue. When you will stop giving a sh#t, stop. :)
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Aug 12, 2015 - 11:30am PT
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Avery,
At least what you post here is climbing related. I always give your threads a look; since I'm probably more interested in what happened in the past, than the latest 4.14 sport route.
Many good comments here, and I agree with most of them.
Keep up the good work your doing!
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Aug 12, 2015 - 11:38am PT
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Ditto here too, I do greatly enjoy reading them, especially when some of the participants chime in.
It is great that you are resurrecting all of these old articles. I read most of them when they originally came out and used to have most of them. Multiple moves and downsizing have caused me either to lose all those mags and journals or they were accidentally dropped off at the donation center in boxes labeled "old books and magazines".
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 12, 2015 - 11:45am PT
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The fact that guidebooks tell you everything you can figure out for yourself and none of the FA stories of the routes has always left me of the opinion people don't really care about the history.
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clode
Trad climber
portland, or
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Aug 12, 2015 - 11:58am PT
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Avery, I'm guilty as charged. Wait, who charged ME with anything? Anyway, I almost always open your posts because they ARE climbing related. I started climbing in 1970 as a freshman in high school. I enjoy DOING things, especially outdoors. Climbing is only one of them. Also, I estimate my view-to-post-a-rely ratio is easily 100:1, perhaps more. Catch (upthread) said it quite well, as did Donini, Warbler and many others who have posted a reply to your OP. While I haven't climbed in years (had to sell my gear to afford my house down payment), I think about climbing almost every day. I log on to Supertopo mainly for entertainment. And your posts ARE an important part of that entertainment. I say keep it up, I (and many others) DO appreciate the effort!
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Aug 12, 2015 - 01:33pm PT
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I think a lot of american climbers like to know about some history but don't really appreciate it to the point where they will read volumes on it. I used to read everything I could get my hands on, but now there is so much on the internet and it is so easy to find there is little pride in telling your friends about some new area or the tough as nails pioneer.
Also I think american climbing history is so diverse and spread over such a huge geographic area that it never really devoloped a hierarchy that may have developed in a country like NZ where you might get recognized for doing something brilliant and work up to the big mountains. There is great climbing being done regionally all over this country. Maybe they are just doing and not recording.
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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Aug 12, 2015 - 01:49pm PT
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once again--if you don't learn your history you're doomed to hear your history teacher repeat it.
I'm digging on the Alaska epics-please keep the posts roling
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Aug 12, 2015 - 02:33pm PT
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Where is Grossman? Where is Grossman?
Dormez-vous? Dormez-vous?
Probably working on his book.
Sugar from an old wine bottle.
Some history is better than another history, like vintage wine.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Aug 12, 2015 - 03:31pm PT
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All of the climbing history I know is from the Taco.
As N00btastic N00ber, I have a narrow view of climbing history that is presented through this forum. I mean, I have very little knowledge of Gunks climbing history, for example.
As such, I know only a narrow slice of Climbing History, expanded by only a few books that I've managed to plow through over the years. The fact that reading historical content can be difficult for me may be a result of the fact that I'm far far more susceptible to a good, well told story, than scholarly non-fiction historical content.
So if you want a different group of people interested in Climbing History, perhaps it's all about presentation?
Also, I still have a thing for roped nuts, that helps too. And the lycra and short climbing shorts time period.
So, yes, this American has an interest in Climbing History...but only to a certain point. Bring me in to Climbing History me further? We'll see! I'll try!
Cheers
LS
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Avery
climber
NZ
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2015 - 04:58pm PT
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"What I AM interested in: First-person narratives of intense experiences climbing notable routes."
"What I am NOT interested in: Lists of "first five ascents of XYZ"
"Your threads seem to me to fall into the latter category."
I agree with your first comment "ELcapinyoazz"
However, it's extremely difficult to get 'fresh' personal accounts. (Believe me, I've tried). My advice is try it for yourself. Who knows, you may have more luck than I do.
If you took the time to read beyond the title page on a lot of my threads, you'll find some personal accounts. (Most are from the AAJ, it's the only truly reliable source).
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mikeyschaefer
climber
Sport-o-land
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Aug 12, 2015 - 05:09pm PT
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Avery, the threads you start are amazing! Keep it up. A lot of people probably read them but just don't comment which is probably a good thing as its makes it easier to get right to the good stuff. Which there is a great amount of.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Aug 12, 2015 - 05:18pm PT
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The best part about history is you realize there were many great climbers a long time ago.
What would Conrad Kain or Fritz Weissner be climbing now if they were 30 years old?
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Aug 12, 2015 - 09:01pm PT
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Appreciate history and the threads. Keep 'em coming!!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Aug 12, 2015 - 09:15pm PT
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A coupla days ago I saw one of your new historic threads and thought to myself that you are bringing the kind of quality climbing content to ST that the site was intended to do. I didn't want to add any fluff to that thread with a kudo, though, so I refrained.
Your threads are good stuff, Avery. Keep it up.
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Avery
climber
NZ
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2015 - 09:31pm PT
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Thanks apogee, I appreciate your words of encouragement.
I think I had some kind of 'brain explosion'. I was looking through my last thread (Mooses Tooth, East Face)and all I could see was wall to wall American Alpine Journal reports. For whatever reason, no one was moved to comment. That was a new experience for me.
The thread was a boring rehash of past articles, so I immediately deleted it. Something I bitterly regret now. (It would be very easy to redo)
Warm thanks to everybody for their words of encouragement. It really does make a difference!
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Lurkingtard
climber
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Aug 13, 2015 - 12:36pm PT
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You are annoying. That might be a reason 'Mericans don't post to your copy and paste threads. Some of your stuff is interesting but you always get butthurt when someone says something you don't like and delete a lot of threads. Another reason not to post on your history of climbing. Personally i only care about firsthand accounts. You just regurgitate old info that most climbing historians already know about. Stop lumping all Americans together. That would be a start.
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