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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Are you speaking of the massive bailout of Wall Street, that his admin was responsible for? Are you taking credit for the good of that, now?
That one is a very complicated bag!
Had no bailout occurred, it is my belief that the resulting paroxysm would have been profoundly painful but much healthier in the long run. However, Bush et al chose to kick the can down the road, and they had a LOT of help from the fed in making that decision. Always keep in mind that the fed doesn't give a rat's hindquarters about we the people, the government itself, or anything other than money and control. It does NOT work for us, nor is it accountable to us, in ANY sense!
Had Bush et al gone for the healthier short-term pain, the blame-game would have been epic, a true political nightmare of unprecedented proportions. Bush et al had no will (nor intelligence) to bite that bullet. The Obumbalator would have done no better, nor would have the Hillabeast (witness her voting for all of the corporate bailouts, as well as the war in Iraq and the police state that is the NSA and TSA, etc.).
So, ANYBODY trying to do the right thing would have been buried by electorate outrage at the pain. And anybody making the call that Bush made would now get eviscerated for NOT doing the right thing, just as Bush (rightly) does.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Here, let me fix that for you....
"How is America suppose to return to its former greatness when most of the voters live in an intellectual void?"
Ahhh, yes, much more accurate now!
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dirtbag
climber
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Had no bailout occurred, it is my belief that the resulting paroxysm would have been profoundly painful but much healthier in the long run. However, Bush et al chose to kick the can down the road, and they had a LOT of help from the fed in making that decision. Always keep in mind that the fed doesn't give a rat's hindquarters about we the people, the government itself, or anything other than money and control. It does NOT work for us, nor is it accountable to us, in ANY sense!
By most accounts we were headed towards a depression. I actually give Bush credit for biting the ugly bullet and bailing them out.
Keep in mind, the last time there was a depression, the conditions were created for the rise of nazi Germany's and WWW II. A depression is nothing to f*#k around with.
What makes you so confident the effects would have been short term?
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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What are you talking about Jody?
I have 5 employees and keep about 20 subcontractors busy year round and all is quite rosy, actually.
Regs, rules and laws keep it clean and weed out the week.
Have you ever filed a corporate, itemized tax return- Jody. Perhaps you have...but please don't speak for me (small businesses owner).
I think it's more likely that you are a rank and file member of the Tea Party, regurgitating the same old RNC talking points and unwittingly pushing the Trojan Hoarse for the 1%.
Say hi to Clivin Bundy for me (again).
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jody wrote: Increased Wages: Middle class income is at lowest point since the 70's, dropping nearly $3,000/year under Obama.
Equal Pay: He says a lot, does little. Female staffers in WH avg $78,400/year. Male staffers average 88,600/year.
The unemployment rate has "fallen" because the govt has quit counting large segments of the unemployed in their stats. There are also fewer full time jobs...most people getting jobs are NOT getting full time work.
Higher minimum wage mandates cut back on opportunities for people entering the workforce and contribute to inflation. Not sure why minimum wage needs to be so high. It was never meant to be a living wage. It was meant for those at the bottom rung of the workforce ladder and if they want a "living wage" they needed to work hard and move up, promote, etc. If the Dems truly meant what they say when they espouse a "living wage", then in CA they better jack it up to at least $30/hour.
Hilarious response. Keep trying Jody.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"Have you ever filed a corporate, itemized tax return- Jody. Perhaps you have...but please don't speak for me (small businesses owner)."
Jody is a cop, has a union to protect him, fight for his raises and gets him benefits.
They might even file his taxes for him. :-)
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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My bro was really happy when he signed up for Obamacare at the getgo.
Oowee, don't get him started now; he ain't a happy camper.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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See Jody, Bob thought about this, then came to a reasonable conclusion without swinging a stick at straw men or low hanging fruit.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jody wrote: Increased Wages: Middle class income is at lowest point since the 70's, dropping nearly $3,000/year under Obama.
Are you saying in six years wages have gone down $18,000 dollars?
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Yeah, thanks for confirming my suspicion Bob. Haven't been on ST much but the dots are pretty easy to connect in regards to Jody.
Being called an idiot lured me into this mess...thanks Jody!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jody is a tea party hack stuck in a socialist job. Must be a little confusing for him.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Bob, would you care to cite some authority for the proposition that higher minimum wages do not decrease employment at entry-level positions? There is a great deal of economic and particularly econometric literature that concludes the opposite.
John
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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JohnE..."In a letter to President Obama and congressional leaders urging a minimum wage increase, more than 600 economists, including 7 Nobel Prize winners wrote, "In recent years there have been important developments in the academic literature on the effect of increases in the minimum wage on employment, with the weight of evidence now showing that increases in the minimum wage have had little or no negative effect on the employment of minimum-wage workers, even during times of weakness in the labor market. Research suggests that a minimum-wage increase could have a small stimulative effect on the economy as low-wage workers spend their additional earnings, raising demand and job growth, and providing some help on the jobs front."
http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm
The ball is your court John.
Didn't see your name on the letter John. :-)
http://www.epi.org/minimum-wage-statement/
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Goldenville west of Lurkerville
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Madbolter...Stop editing my posts...Dammit...!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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I'm familiar with that letter, and with some of the economists who signed it. The list includes at least one "9/11 truther." More importantly, I get solicited for letters of that sort all the time, because I am a member of the American Economic Association. I could add my name to any number of letters from lists of "distinguished economists" despite the fact that my economic career lacks any particular distinction, and I have no particular expertise in the area in question.
I am also familiar with a CBO estimate that a large increase in the minimum wage would bring 900,000 out of poverty, at the cost of 500,000 entry level jobs.
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/44995
Is that a fair trade? You're taking away the jobs and income of those least able to afford that job loss. More importantly, you're locking the door to improving one's economic lot in life, because you're taking away their first job. I think most people find it's a lot easier to get the next job if you have a current one than if you've never had one.
I am aware of no competent study that claims a dramatic rise in minimum wages would not cause a decrease in entry level employment, although I admit that I'm cheating by addint the word "competent," but I have a rational basis for determining competence. Many of those who allege that increasing the minimum wage will not cause a substantial decrease in entry level unemployment make rather unrealistic expectations about the economy, e.g. that it will grow because the left-of-center is in charge. See, e.g.,
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/labor/news/2014/03/04/85192/understanding-cbos-minimum-wage-report/
That report claims that the CBO study had too pessimistic projections of growth when, if anything, the CBO was too optimistic.
In contrast, I could cite innumerable studies that show what most employers would tell you -- a higher minimum wage decreases entry level hiring. See, e.g.,
https://www.epionline.org/studies/r129/
Well, I need to preserve my own employment before I enjoy the Labor Day weekend (yes, I realize the irony). I hope you have the most enjoyable of weekends (which, I hope, is at least three days for you). I'm sure a few days rest won't impoverish the discussion.
John
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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I am aware of no competent study that claims a dramatic rise in minimum wages would not cause a decrease in entry level employment, although I admit that I'm cheating by addint the word "competent," but I have a rational basis for determining competence. Many of those who allege that increasing the minimum wage will not cause a substantial...
When you need a stack of undefined modifiers to try to make your weak, unsupported point, and move goalposts around; that might be the first clue that you are full of it.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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JohnE from your link...this is about teen employment.
"The difference between total job loss and minimum wage job loss is dramatic. Coomer and Wessels find that when the minimum wage is increased by 10 percent, employment for 16-to-19-year-olds in minimum wage jobs falls by as much as 11.1 percent. Looking specifically at 16-to-17-year-olds, employment losses rise to 13 percent.
The total job loss is moderated somewhat by the existence of businesses that aren’t covered by the minimum wage. Displaced teens and other minimum wage workers can find jobs with employers who can legally pay them a wage commensurate with their skills. As a result, a 10 percent minimum wage increase results in a total teen employment loss of 2.3 percent.
An important implication is that teen employment losses could be greater in states that choose to expand the coverage of the minimum wage. With no alternative employment options available—very few businesses, large or small, are exempt from a higher state minimum wage—teens who were previously working at minimum wage jobs are confronted with larger employment losses."
Jody...thought you were a CHIP. My mistake.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jody wrote: Increased Wages: Middle class income is at lowest point since the 70's, dropping nearly $3,000/year under Obama.
six times $3,000 = $18,000
What laws have the republican congress passed in the last two years to help increase workers income?
Do tell please.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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jody sit up straight
when you type.
you're slouching.
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