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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jul 23, 2015 - 07:46pm PT
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You are ignoring the opportunity cost of your time to learn about stuff and to learn to fix it, screw up a few times while gaining experience. It's actually quite expensive to be lazy and/or mechanically un-inclined.
If it works for you or you've accepted it, that's cool, however suggesting some economic wash is a joke.
Fact is most repairs result in damage to the vehicle you'll be paying for later at a much higher cost (w/o a clue), getting sold a bunch of stuff you don't need, inflated and redundant book times, etc. I'd say 9/10 repairs across the board, maybe 9.8/10.
I have 100's of examples, here's my most recent from a few weeks ago.
In a moment of lazy "OMG, my time is soooo valuable" and also mistakenly thinking my warranty was still in effect, I go to dealer to get diagnosis.
11.5 hours @ $150 / hour + a bunch of sh!t I knew didn't need to be replaced came to just shy of $3k.
No thanks, I'll take care of this myself.
6.5 hours of my time later (a pro would have knocked this job out in under 2, 11.5 my a$$), $20 in consumables, $75 in dealer parts I could have ordered on the net for $24 ...
Figure about $400 / hour for my time.
Do you make $400 / hour, after taxes? I actually don't myself.
Quite a bit of buffer in there for some new and/or specialized tools and a few mistakes.
You can slice it up differently if you want, I do all the time - work sucks sometimes and doing it often inspires me to think about ways to get out of it.
I come to the same conclusion every time, though. It's cheaper to do it myself. Way cheaper. It generally comes down to pay less now with some hard work and overtime - or pay more later. I really like keeping my cash.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 23, 2015 - 08:01pm PT
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Americans are so stupid and lazy these days.
They can't do sh!t anymore.
They're so stooopid they need an "expert" for anything they need done.
They can barely hold a screwdriver and what to speak of turning it on a screw.
They're good at watching Fox News and drooling after eating .....
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jul 23, 2015 - 08:50pm PT
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If mechanics f*#k up, they have to fix it. (and give you a loaner car) If you f*#k up, you have to fix it... Again. I like the first part of your post, then came this naive statement.
The mechanic will find a way to not lose money on the job, 100% of the time.
They'll find a way for you to pay for more repairs - including the repair of the damage they are causing.
Even a hint of anything close to the above occurring will lead me to pulling the car out of that shop ASAP. They're clueless, they don't know what they're doing, they're wrecking the car, you're going to pay a heavily padded bill to cover it all, and you're going to have more problems in the future. Cut it all off and get the fuk out of that shop asap - I've called tow trucks - flatbeds even to pile the parts onto.
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Dapper Dan
Trad climber
Redwood City
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Jul 23, 2015 - 09:15pm PT
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I've had several Toyota 22re's , you can diagnose and fix most problems with a paper clip, multimeter, and metric tool set....
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 23, 2015 - 10:44pm PT
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Solem, you do of course know of things like "Hot August Nights" where collectible cars all the way back to the 40s gather in Reno? ANd there is a BLAZER club in a lot of states as well, and they are sought after mobiles. Not all areas are filled to the rim with people such as that LA basin.
Collectibles and such cars are one thing, daily drivers are another. Are you trying to say that your rig pollutes less because you're in a less populated area?
I assumed from your post that your blazer is a daily driver. If not, that's cool. If it's your daily rig best not talk to me about my carbon footprint :-)
Cheers
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Jul 24, 2015 - 04:52am PT
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I used to do most of my own work, when I was younger. I was a "shop" teacher,
and had most of the tools needed. I even rebuilt a few engines.
Fast forward to my "senior" years, and I began to pay a mechanic. A few years ago, I started using this repair shop, which seemed to be legitimate.
The owner had great social skills, and "appeared" to be real honest.
I was making an effort to keep my 2004 Chevy truck on the road, but the brakes, and all the lines needed replacing. I hired these guys to do the job, but my mistake was that I never bothered to look at the work, after I payed them.
A few months later, I took the truck to get it inspected. It failed because of the old brake lines. I told the guy that the lines were just replaced.
He said the work had never been done, and there was a warrant out for the mechanic's arrest.
It turned out this criminal had scammed many people for years, and is now working in Florida. I hope my local police force informed the cops in Florida.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Jul 24, 2015 - 06:35am PT
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I dunno any more about older cars but my experience is that if you have a Toyota made in the last ten years your most honest and affordable service option is a dealer. I have 100K+ on an '09 Tacoma, serviced every 5K at one or another dealers around the country. So far I am 100% satisfied.
What do you pay for your 'service' aka an oil change, ever 5k?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jul 24, 2015 - 07:51am PT
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I'm stupid and lazy but was able to drop the Transmisseone on my 79 renault in my girlfriends living room with a screw driver while she drolled over the 11 o'clock news...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 24, 2015 - 07:59am PT
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Hey, Werner, I'm not stoopid, but I am lazy, and I frikken HATE grease! Especially
cause once I get my fingers greasy I can 't pick my nose, and I really hate that!
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Jul 24, 2015 - 08:50am PT
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I'm quite capable of fixing my own cars & trucks. I still take my car to a good mechanic. I can if need be make pert near anything I need.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 24, 2015 - 09:50am PT
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What do you pay for your 'service' aka an oil change, ever 5k?
They average around $80. Typically that's an oil change, rotate tires and re-torque the bolts on he driveshaft (the four door long bed requires this for some reason.)
My last service was 100K. $300. Change oil, replace brake fluid, replace coolant, replace A/C cabin air filter, spark plugs plus the usual. I told 'em it needed rear brakes. They came back and said they were fine 'till next time.
The way I see it if I change my own oil, rotate my own tires and maintain the driveshaft ($80) I'll end up losing most of a day by the time I get the oil, do the job, clean up and haul jugs full of old oil back down for recycling. Plus I have to keep all the oily trays, funnels etc around in the garage.
I've done more than my share of clutches, engines rebuilds, suspension work etc. Today I go to the dealer, take my laptop and get some work done while they take care of the car.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 24, 2015 - 11:02am PT
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You are ignoring the opportunity cost of your time to learn about stuff and to learn to fix it, screw up a few times while gaining experience. If it's your hobby and you consider it play, fine. If it's an economic decision, I have a lot more valuable ways to use my time.
Nut Again, I agree with you. I suspect any disagreement comes from applying an individual's opportunity cost to the situation. My current hourly rates far exceeds those of any shop around here. If I'm tempted to do my own work, it's cheaper to spend the extra time in the office, and pay the mechanic to fix my car.
When I was in law school, it was a different story, and I did most of my own maintenance and repairs. One amusing story resulted from this. At the time (1976-79), I was driving a 1969 BMW 2002. BMW's were much rarer then, so parts availability was always an issue.
In June of 1977, I and Dan Smith (who had a 1961 Alfa spyder then), spent a couple of weeks climbing in the Meadows. Between us, we had every metric non-power tool known to man. While driving in my car to Bridgeport, the fuel pump started giving out. Unfortunately, we'd left both tool kits and accessories (including, but not limited to, a metric torque wrench) in the trunk of Dan's car. All we had in the way of tools were a pair of pliers and a Swiss army knife.
We limped into the Western Auto store in Bridgeport, and were told the nearest BMW fuel pump was in Reno. They did, however, have some rubber diaphragm material in a sheet, and we decided to at least see if the fuel pump's diaphragm was leaking.
We were able to remove the fuel pump (which was, fortunately, located on the top of the block, so we didn't need to drain the oil the way I needed to on my old 1962 Ford Fairlane) with the pliers, and take the fuel pump apart by loosening the screws holding it together using the screw driver on the Swiss army knife. Sure enough, there was a small leak in the diaphragm, so we cut out a new diaphragm from our sheet of material using the scissors on the Swiss Army Knife, punched holes for the screws with the awl on the knife, bought some Prema-Tex and applied liberally on both sides, screwed it back together, bolted it back on, and it got me back to Fresno.
Later that same trip, though, the mount for the gear shift started working itself loose. (You might reasonably conclude that I drove that car where 1969 2002's shouldn't go) I was able to find two rocks that acted like a perfect service ramp, but when it came time to tighten the mount, it used a metric Allen wrench and had exactly 61 degrees of free rotation. At that point, I decided maybe I needed a metric Allen head socket set -- and my next car was going to be a Chevy.
John
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 24, 2015 - 11:18am PT
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John your story aligns with my theory that back then climbers developed superior mechanical skills by keeping their old cars running. I had so many experiences like the one you describe. Anyway these mechanical skills translated into expertise with climbing systems and natural protection. Many of today's climbers with their ultra reliable Subies etc., seem to have more of a learning curve when it comes to traditional climbing.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jul 24, 2015 - 12:23pm PT
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it's cheaper to spend the extra time in the office, and pay the mechanic to fix my car. You pretty much have to be well into the 1% for this to be true, certainly after taxes. I've never actually seen it myself - ever - basically staying in the black hour for hour by having someone else work on your car over the long run.
You can alternatively tell us that you have a lot of disposable income and that this is one way you choose to spend it. That's cool. This kind of math is indeed going to be different for everyone. I'd rather spend elsewhere and/or stop working altogether a little earlier in life.
The wealthiest generally drive cars that don't need much in the way of repairs, and when they do, they generally pay out the ass for European specialty shops and parts - and soon thereafter get a new car. That's what I've seen. Nobody bragging about saving money.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 24, 2015 - 12:28pm PT
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So, what you're saying is that it is a moral imperative to do yer own wrenching?
My wife doesn't like being told she's not a gud person, mind you.
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ExtraBlue
Ice climber
=802-1
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Jul 30, 2015 - 12:27pm PT
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The key is to drive shitty cars in the Northeast. When I drove pre '93 Saabs Jeff, the Saab Doctor was my friend.
He knew how much my car was worth and that he couldn't charge me more than that. He had a bazillion spare parts. If the job was easy, he'd just sell me the part to save himself the time in dealing with a rust bucket.
He was great.
Now that real SAABs are all over 20 years old I drive a Toyota and I get gauged.
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