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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 21, 2015 - 10:38am PT
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"...I'm posting to say that there are bigger issues at play than TGT being on this forum or not."
Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at, too.
If you only form your view of TGT based on his polititard posts, it's easy to form the impression he's pretty much an angry rightwing nutjob. But he contributes a lot of climbing content, historical perspective, and is very active in supporting the climbing community. Everyone who hangs out with him seems to agree he's a really good guy. I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt that way, in spite of the tone of his polititard posts.
This kind of highlighting is undeserved (in my view)...after all, he hasn't done anything really slimy like report one of his polititard foes to the mods, or mined the interwebz for their personal information with mal intent. That kind of sh#t should not stand.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 21, 2015 - 10:39am PT
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I'm kind of a First Amendment absolutist and believe that people should have the right to express just how stupid and bigoted they really are.
What are you doing, Fat Dad? Don't you know that we aren't supposed to stay on topic? And we certainly aren't supposed to treat people the same, even if their views differ from ours. Acting with tolerance of free expresion on an internet forum? Unacceptable!
I disappoints me, but does not surprise me, that a rant against one religion draws ire from some, but not others. It might be instructive to count the number of posters who've ranted against, insulted or condemned Christianity, and the posters who objected to those rants. Then compare those who've ranted against, insulted or condemned Islam, and the posters who objected to those rants. I rather suspect that the only intersection of the ranters are those who condemn all (or at least all "Abrahamic") religion, and the intersection of those who condemn the insulters is the null set.
Shame on us! Banning someone because we don't like what they say is, to me, the epitome of closing one's mind. We need our minds to open if we expect to find anything truthful.
John
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jul 21, 2015 - 11:03am PT
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Why is it half of all lib Democrats lose it when it comes to Islam - at least among those who choose to involve themselves and voice an opinion.
If you're a lib Dem and support liberal principles, not just in your neighborhood but in general (for many this means across the international community), then prove it: Stop defending - or stop running interference for - the most illiberal ideology in today's modern world - the traditional (Quran-based) theology of Islam.
And if you haven't (even bothered to) read the Quran (hey, what's that say?), the opinions you give in support of medieval Islam and its adherents stem straight from ignorance.
Traditional fundamentalist Islam is as illiberal as it comes.
Educate yourselves. Figure it out.
You could start here...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0plC24YuoJk
.....
I'm just going to assume this Dave Kos was at a bar at 9:30p last night as was drunk when he posted. What a difference a day makes.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jul 21, 2015 - 11:10am PT
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I'm no fan of Islam. I lived in Saudi Arabia for four years.
And yes, I've read the Quran. I'd say I'm as educated about this as most.
I'm also sick of Americans trying to pretend like all these wars are Muslims fault and their fault alone.
We do after all, live in one of the greatest glass houses in history.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jul 21, 2015 - 11:14am PT
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Step One: Distinguish between Islam (a system of ideas and practices) and Muslims (people).
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jul 21, 2015 - 11:23am PT
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Wiki: The first crusade...
Many Muslims sought shelter in the Al-Aqsa Mosque, the Dome of the Rock, and the Temple Mount area generally. According to the Gesta Francorum, speaking only of the Temple Mount area, "...[our men] were killing and slaying even to the Temple of Solomon, where the slaughter was so great that our men waded in blood up to their ankles..." According to Raymond of Aguilers, also writing solely of the Temple Mount area, " in the Temple and porch of Solomon men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins." Writing about the Temple Mount area alone Fulcher of Chartres, who was not an eyewitness to the Jerusalem siege because he had stayed with Baldwin in Edessa at the time, says: "In this temple 10,000 were killed. Indeed, if you had been there you would have seen our feet coloured to our ankles with the blood of the slain. But what more shall I relate? None of them were left alive; neither women nor children were spared".[16]The eyewitness Gesta Francorum states that some people were spared. Its anonymous author wrote, "When the pagans had been overcome, our men seized great numbers, both men and women, either killing them or keeping them captive, as they wished."[17] Later the same source writes, "[Our leaders] also ordered all the Saracendead to be cast outside because of the great stench, since the whole city was filled with their corpses; and so the living Saracens dragged the dead before the exits of the gates and arranged them in heaps, as if they were houses. No one ever saw or heard of such slaughter of pagan people, for funeral pyres were formed from them like pyramids, and no one knows their number except God alone. But Raymond caused the Emir and the others who were with him to be conducted to Ascalon, whole and unhurt."[18]
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jul 21, 2015 - 11:27am PT
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Some taco posters need some of this
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 21, 2015 - 11:28am PT
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Dude, that photo-stalking sh#t is gonna get you in big trouble...
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Jul 21, 2015 - 12:53pm PT
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"Can't we all just get along?"
Rodney King, philosopher
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jul 21, 2015 - 02:00pm PT
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Dude, that photo-stalking sh#t is gonna get you in big trouble...
dude I took the picture for you apagooo!
FYI: public domain it's legal to take pic of people...
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Prod
Trad climber
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Jul 21, 2015 - 02:30pm PT
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What kind of a wanker are you Dave Kos? Seems like a bit of a limp one.
Pretty pathetic thread in my book, not because you have an opinion about someone else's opinion, but because you come off sounding like a whiny little sh#t, crying to C-Mac.
I don't know, and do not care to know, your or Wendell's political views. This type of PC crying is what has kept a lot of great posters away from the Taco.
Prod.
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jonnyrig
climber
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Jul 21, 2015 - 02:34pm PT
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Oh hey, look... the Christians have settled down somewhat since the Crusades. Now they're wagging their fingers at radical Islam, telling the world how horrible they are for their fundamentalist beliefs! Seems kinda ironic to me.
MODERATE religion is worth defending. You know, the kind that worships in peace. The kind that's not bothered by other religions. The kind that allows for other people to believe as they see fit. There are significant numbers of Muslim people in this country who do NOT follow the radical ideals of ISIS. The blanket statement derogatory comments regarding Muslim faiths fail to differentiate between the two, moderate vs radical.
I see people standing up for freedom of religion, not for radicalism. What I don't see are people making any attempt to understand the mechanisms and motivations for radicalism. Indeed, many continue to express opinions that the shooter in Tennessee was motivated by radical religion.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/family-spokesman-depression-led-tenn-killings-32560511?page=2
A senior federal law enforcement official said Monday that though investigators are continuing to dig into Abdulazeez's background, they have not found any evidence suggesting that he was "specifically tasked" by anyone to shoot up the military site. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the official was not authorized to comment on a pending investigation.
Don't forget, the other recent shooting was driven by racism. Seems a bit radical to me.
And all the while in this country, which supposedly believes in freedom of religion, we can't seem to fully grasp the concept. Every day, I am confronted by the posts of family members on facebook (yeah, I know...) indicating their belief that we need to bring back God in our country. Every time there's a new court case or ruling that disfavors their religious belief, it becomes a personal affront on their religion. Not forcing them to DO anything per se, simply disallowing them to discriminate. For example: court clerks who believe in Jesus suddenly having to issue marriage licenses to homos. Seriously????
If you can't handle it, don't work there.
Same solution offered up to the employees of Hobby Lobby after that landslide decision supporting the owners faith.
RIGHT???!!!
I'm personally sick of the bullsh#t. I'm tired of being reasonable, and accommodating people with narrow-minded visions of who should rule the world. I'm sick of your f*#king religion, all of it. Islam, Christianity, Hindu, Wicken, Satanic... I don't give a flying F*#K what deity you think is going to save your pathetic ass from tomorrows grounder at the gym: shut the f*#k up about it.
Radical Islam?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBa03xBZf34&feature=youtu.be&t=72
And the rest of you religious zealots can go right along with 'em if you think YOUR religion ought to be the one in charge. Suck on that.
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