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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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congratulations, that and five bucks will get her a latte at stewbucks
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Darkmagus is a hater and a shart stain.
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 9, 2015 - 08:50am PT
And someone should really tell her about edging shoes. That was painful to watch her try to edge in those things!
LOL, I didn't see it, I couldn't stomach more than three minutes of her voice, but the screenshot of her heel-hooking was plenty upsetting to me...
TC BROZ 4 LYFE
Flip Flop: I'm very sensitive to high pitched sounds like Bosch drills, falcon screeches, and high-pressure sharting
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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She's bad ass for sure!
She has done something that most of us couldn't, can't, won't ever do.
That being said, it's the lack of apprenticeship that kinda bugs me with many of today's "right now" be the best, sponsored climbers.
Good enough to free 5.13, but not knowing how to haul, sheesh. A lot can happen, and go wrong, when you have no schooling in some rudimentary systems that are admittedly grunt work, but an important part of the game nonetheless.
Good on her for getting it done though!
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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That being said, it's the lack of apprenticeship that kinda bugs me with many of today's "right now" be the best, sponsored climbers.
Is it good to expect someone to waste their best athletic years in some endless apprenticeship because that what we geezers did?
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Brian
climber
California
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That being said, it's the lack of apprenticeship that kinda bugs me with many of today's "right now" be the best, sponsored climbers.
Is it good to expect someone to waste their best athletic years in some endless apprenticeship because that what we geezers did?
The whole "pay your dues" in an apprenticeship is so overblown. I get it, apprenticeship can be useful; but it is not always necessary. Demographically, I probably fall between the "geezers" and the "today's" climbers, but probably closer to the geezers.
I started climbing in 1981 and I have never had a climbing mentor, other than Freedom of the Hills. I've had lots of partners, but never someone with loads more experience than me, or who climbed more than a letter grade or so harder than me. And you know what? Freedom of the Hills, an audacious sense of adventure and willingness to go for it, a can-do attitude, and a healthy respect for gravity is pretty much all you need it seems.
I started bouldering and top-roping (with hip belays, in tennis shoes and a seat-harness made of 21 feet of 1 inch webbing, courtesy of Freedom of the Hills).
When I wanted to lead, I figured it out with a bit of reading, a bit of common sense, and a bit of practice. Started with stoppers and hexes before I could afford cams, and the trusty hip belay before I got a Stich plate.
When I wanted to push my leading, I just did so. I did not build a pyramid of 5.6s before I moved to 5.7. Screw that. I just started jumping on Josh 5.10, sometimes sending and sometimes getting my ass handed to me. After some of that, I moved on to 5.11, 5.12, and so on up the ladder. Let's not act like placing a good nut is the equivalent of calculating the trajectory for landing a probe on a comet. Sure, there are ways to do it wrong, and some people are better than others; but, c'mon, it's not that hard.
When I wanted to climb El Cap, I got another partner who was also a decent "trad" (i.e., gear) climber and we just went and climbed the Column and then the Nose. No one showed us how to do it. We just figured it out. El Cap too is not, in fact, rocket science. My first time up El Cap I was only a 5.10 "trad" leader. Just point your nose up and go to the top. Hauling? Figured it out. Lowering out? Figured it out. First solo of El Cap? Yep, just figured it out. Somewhere along the line someone had told me how to solo with a clove hitch on a locking pearabiner, and so I took that and just figured out the rest.
When I started ice climbing? Alpine climbing? First overseas objectives? You guessed it: I figured it out, either alone or with partners. The adventure, the uncertainty, of figuring it out yourself is part of the attraction. And as long as one has the aforementioned common sense along with a healthy respect for cause and effect, gravity, and mortality, figuring it out yourself ain't so bad.
Let me state for the record that I am a thoroughly mediocre climber, and I am sure that the above story parallels the story of plenty of other climbers. If someone like me can solo El Cap, or climb hard trad, or climb mixed alpine all without paying a guide or finding a sage-like mentor, then I'm pretty sure that someone as badass as Emily, who has friends to learn from like Hazel Findlay and Conrad Anker, can get up El Cap without us griping that she has not "paid her dues," whatever that means. Emily has done something really cool here. She had a dream, trained for it, figured out how to do it, and then did it (and in pretty decent style). I think it's pretty inspirational.
PS EDIT: Don't want to sound like too much of a jerk, and I don't want to direct that comment directly at survival or any other poster. However, the "pay your dues" attitude is one that I see fairly often at the crag and read fairly often online, so I'm going to leave the comment. I'll also note that I'm not encouraging more Darwin-award style climbing, as I've been on my share of rescues caused by someone's stupidity, arrogance, or lack of respect for gravity. But I do believe those crises were cause by stupidity, arrogance, or lack of respect for gravity, not by the unfathomable complexity of climbing. Our history is a history of folks figuring it out for themselves.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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No offense taken here.
But "just figuring it out" has taken a lot of lives over the years.
I never said endless apprenticeship or anything, but there's a certain wisdom in learning from someone with experience. It's worked pretty well for thousands of years in many/every field of endeavor.
I wasn't trying to bash on the gal, but I get a point of view as well.
I wish there had been a bit more flexibility in the work your way up/ no hangdogging, pre-inspecting mantra when I was a kid. I might've gotten a lot further in my heyday. I must've led 50 10a's before I moved on to 10b. Whatever, I was just a slow poke and only made it into the 5.12 trad zone. But I did a hell of a lot of hard routes onsight. Anyway, I feel good about the style I worked all those years, but I'm still glad the game is moving forward, as it must.
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couchmaster
climber
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I suspect that most of us are so far behind that gal in any skill measurement that we don't have a viewpoint that's worthy of crap in this debate. At least speaking for myself that's the case. "Best Climber"? Can't say but she's rockin the Casbah, go Emily!
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Brian
climber
California
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But "just figuring it out" has taken a lot of lives over the years.
I never said endless apprenticeship or anything, but there's a certain wisdom in learning from someone with experience. It's worked pretty well for thousands of years in many/every field of endeavor.
Can't argue with the truth of that, and it's really important to remember.
I wish there had been a bit more flexibility in the work your way up/ no hangdogging, pre-inspecting mantra when I was a kid.
I know what you mean...
But I did a hell of a lot of hard routes onsight. Anyway, I feel good about the style I worked all those years, but I'm still glad the game is moving forward, as it must.
Amen. Ground up onsight remains the goal. Every time. Even if I don't rise to that standard every single time. Redpointing or sieging or whatever comes after.
My own POV may not really be so far from yours I suspect; but I was trying to make a point about folks (none on this thread) suggesting that you should not climb El Cap until you lead X number of 5.XX routes, climb in the Valley X number of times, and so on. I remember hearing about some woman who kept off leading (or maybe it was even setting up top rope anchors) by a bunch of her older male friends, who for years kept her down with the apprenticeship story, talking about how serious and complex and dangerous it all is. When this woman finally hired a guide and got some instruction (maybe Chicks with Picks?), her overwhelming feeling was: "F*#k. I kept myself from leading (or top roping or whatever) for a couple of years because of this? It's so basic, so straightforward."
I totally agree with you that I've see a lot of carnage, and even more near-carnage, from people who do not have enough common sense, or who are too proud to ask a question of a more experienced person, or who want to look cool, or who do not respect gravity. I also think every one of that accidents was terrible and I wished they did not happen. I hate helping to stabilize some bloody, hurt, scared human being while we are waiting for the helicopter. And so I should probably remember and take seriously your points when I encourage folks to go for it. That's a good reminder.
I guess there is some mean to be found between wanting to avoid the rescues, injuries, and deaths on the one hand (which is important) and not over-stating the gravity, pun intended, of the situations (for any number of reasons) on the other. That mean surely varies depending on the context. I make my kids triple check everything when they climb, wear helmets when they lead (or even when they hang at the base of some crags), and so on. But I've got other friends--smart, properly cautious, adults--who I often tell to just go for it and figure it out.
But, back to the topic of the thread, Emily's ascent kicks ass, and seems to me to fall well, well, well within the range of competent, safe, prepared people pushing the boat out a litter further from shore on an awesome adventure. Great job. Got me psyched.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Good post!
Yes, Go Emily!
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Sonic
Trad climber
Boulder, Co
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So many haters...haha
Nice work Emily
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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I thought that was beautifully done, both her achievement and the filming of the piece. I laughed when I saw the production company's name "Louder than Eleven".
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splitclimber
climber
Sonoma County
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she kicks ass and Adrian is an incredible alpinist
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Brian,
I think you hit the spot, I've done quite well by fumbling my way through the skills and had lots of fun doing it.
Steve
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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I didn't know how to haul till I needed to. Then I learned. No big and hardly an indictment. Hauling ain't climbing. Its baggage handling.
So getting on El Cap for six days without ever having hauled before is the new recommended method? Fine.
Let's just say it's dangerous baggage handling shall we? Ever heard of the triple chop?
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Emily is a great person and climber... not your ordinary climber working her way up the grades! I have watched her climb on Elcap and she has the necessary determination and skill. Also, she is a free climber and thus is doing those kind of routes... I don't think she is quite ready to do the "Sea" however. That said, she could pay some dues in that arena and I have no doubt would do well climbing hard aid routes. Best climber out there???? Probably not ... yet anyway.
However the post, as always seems to happen on ST, was morphed into a conversation on knowing how to do things before you go up on ElCap. I always recommend "paying some dues" to any climbers who want to climb ElCap. You don't have to spend years getting your dues paid but it is a good idea to have practiced wall climbing on a real wall and not hanging from a tree, for example. Why not just go for it, some might ask? Well, HALF of all teams starting on ElCap end up bailing... I don't wonder why! Have you ever been behind an inexperienced team, low in the Legs, and spent most of the day waiting for them to "figure it out?" It happens a lot. So, while you may be able to fumble your way along and finally figure things out for yourself, climbing ElCap is NOT just about YOU. There are others who have prepared, planned, and taken time off work, to come to attempt ElCap and their time is as valuable as yours... it is more than just you up there, so be considerate of others and don't go up there not knowing how things work before hand.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Aside from Nancy Faegan, there is no one else with that broad of a talent. Hard to rate climbers but in terms of overall chops, EH is hard to beat. The fact that she's a noob on the Big Stone and still dicks Golden Gate is only a plus in my book.
JL
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Brian
climber
California
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Hard to rate climbers but in terms of overall chops, EH is hard to beat. The fact that she's a noob on the Big Stone and still dicks Golden Gate is only a plus in my book.
+1
"Best" climber is an open-ended debate, and there are lots of other names I would add to the conversation. But Emily is clearly pretty damn impressive.
climbing ElCap is NOT just about YOU. There are others who have prepared, planned, and taken time off work, to come to attempt ElCap and their time is as valuable as yours...
Now, that's a statement that cuts both ways. I understand folks getting frustrated with slow parties epicing on easy terrain. I've been that frustrated person, fuming about a crowd, bottleneck, or other such clusterf*#k. But, if it's just not about me, it's not just about me. I think one should expect a reasonable amount of traffic on a route like the Nose, including some folks in over their head. If I want fewer folks, I can walk further, go during the off season, change objectives, and so on. After all, it's not all about me. (Note: I write this in full acknowledgement of my own conflicts on the point, as I've been the guy bitching about the cluster.)
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Robert, do you need a hug?
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