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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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This subject was resolved well over 1,000 years ago, and anything your lawyers have to say about it is just meaningless mouth-flapping. I posted the little story below a few years ago after receiving true enlightenment on the nature and disposition of booty while on a business trip to Asia...
So after 28 hours, nine time zones, five countries, and three airplanes, I finally plonk the bags down in my hotel room in Kuala Lumpur, find the minibar and crack a beer, and sit down to chill. Beer disappears pretty quickly, and I get up to look around the room. Poking around the room I find a bit of a surprise.
In the night table beside the bed I find that the Gideons have been here and left me a bible. But there's another book in there too, and I pick it up to discover it is The Holy Qur'an, in original Arabic with English translation. I've never read the Qur'an before, so I crack it open at a random page and read...
"And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire, a fifth share is assigned to God."
No sh#t. Those really were the first words my eyes fell upon. (Surah 8, 41 -- look 'em up)
Not being much a believer in religion of any kind, I'd always assumed that booty was mine to do with what I pleased... you know, half for me, half for my partner. But it looks like maybe I was wrong...
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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If you go Christian David, you only have to tithe your 10%.
Unless inflation has kicked it up to 20%...
The OP is a big waste of typing IMHO.
Either you get it back to the dude who abandoned it, or not. Finder's choice.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Rather than "theft by finding" it's more like "lost by leaving."
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Lassitude 33
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While I wholeheartedly agree that the issue of abandoned gear is controlled by local customs (you leave it, you lost it) -- legally, each State has its own statutes and case law governing the subject. [The original post is not very illuminating, nor relevant in the US (or perhaps anywhere else for that matter), i.e., totally worthless].
In California, Rules governing Lost Property are found in Civil Code Section 2080 to 2080.10.
In plain English:
If you find something you are obligated to take charge of it, but if you do, (a) you hold it for the benefit of the owner; and (b) you can't charge the owner for its return, except for actual costs of storage or care. [CC Sec. 2080]
If the owner hasn't claimed the property or is unknown, and it is worth more than $100, you are supposed to turn it over to the Sheriff/Police. If it is worth more than $250, the Sheriff/Police are supposed to publish a notice. If the owner doesn't claim the property within 90 days (+ 7 days if a publication), it belongs to the person who found it (but if there was a publication, the finder has to pay the cost of publication). [CC 2080.1, 2080.3]
But, a local city/county/Univ. may pass an ordinance, that they get to keep unclaimed property and auction it off, and the finder is SOL if unclaimed. [CC 2080.4, 2080.5, 2080.6, 29080.8]
THE KICKER:
"2080.7. The provisions of this article have no application to
things which have been intentionally abandoned by their owner."
So, it would seem that if you intentionally leave gear behind on a route with no intent to retrieve it, legally it is BOOTY!
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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Really? Shite man, who doesn't spend a half hour trying to remove some fixed piece?
Booty = Booty? Absolutely!!
Not sure which is flotsam and which is jetsam but if it gets left behind?? I feel it's nothing less than my duty to clean the booty.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Has anyone ever been successfully prosecuted for getting booty?
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Lassitude 33
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Has anyone ever been successfully prosecuted for getting booty?
Only if they paid for it, and not in Nevada.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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I believe that any fixed gear in Yosemite is deemed abandoned by NPS rules after 24 hours. My observed operational rule is that gear is not deemed abandoned until its [usually former] owner is off the pitch. This is somewhat analogous to the "Golf Ball Found on Course Finders Keepers" Rule: "A golf ball is not 'lost' until it stops rolling."
John
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Has anyone ever been successfully prosecuted for getting booty?
Not really prosecuted, but the big dumb cop chased me out of his wife's bedroom .....
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Somewheres years ago I posted the complete booty rulze. There is some nuance in many of them. It's all about honor and accepting defeat. For instance I dropped a screw on the Black Dike last march. I informed the party behind me that it was booty as My intentions were to hike out the back side and not to rappel the route to retrieve the screw. Had I intended to rap the route I would have claimed the right to look for and retrieve the screw. Had I not been able to find it and given up looking, the screw would then have been booty for anyone who did find it. likewise if someone dropped a screw on me and I found it I would certainly return it if their intentions were to go back and get it. If they took off like I did that day never even seeing them then I would consider the screw booty. In this praticuler case We finished the climb and hiked out without talking to the party below us. They offered to return the screw to me on the internet but I told then that since I had no intentions of going back to look for my screw it was in fact Booty for them to keep. Had I accepted their offer and taken the screw I would have lost considerable face for breaking the rulze of Booty and not accepting my own weakness.
Gnome. I am far from the Bad ass of VT heck there are chicks in VT who can kick my ass climbing (and otherwise) this guy might be one of the most bad assed VT climbers though:)
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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I generally take a pretty dim view of theft in general, but as far as abandoned climbing gear goes I figure it's open season unless there's mitigating circumstances - for example, it belongs to a friend.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Reminds me of some surfers I once knew, who upon observing the lifeguards pulling a dead guy in from the surf, began immediately checking the beach to see if they could find the guy's towel and wallet.
-Surfer Joe or Moe the Sleaze
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Any gear on my rack is archival, should it be left behind and found, beware...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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That is totally low trolling for dead dudes gear unless you planned on giveing it to his family. m,aybe the cali version of booty rules is a bit less honorable than the north east version?
Any booty I find is usually in better condition than whats on my rack;)
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