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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Jan 26, 2016 - 03:07pm PT
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Goofball Religitard Escapee ^^^
Can't even vote on account of out-of-planet residency.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jan 26, 2016 - 04:07pm PT
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jan 26, 2016 - 04:08pm PT
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Jan 26, 2016 - 04:29pm PT
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Gotta be spring, cos. Ski season, ya know. I'll make it happen. I have a lot of friends who still climb after major knee work. Just a bit slower on the descents.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jan 26, 2016 - 05:58pm PT
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The difference now is that more and more R's actually think Trump could win the general. I think they are really deluded on that, but I'm curious to find out and maybe we will.
I am a dem, and am starting to believe trump will be the next pres, unfortunately.
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Norton
Social climber
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Jan 26, 2016 - 06:03pm PT
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and 90% of American adults, adults mind you, say angels are real
so yeah, ..............
I am a dem, and am starting to believe trump will be the next pres, unfortunately.
10b4me, they can't get to 270 electoral votes, no worries
there will not be repub president in our lifetimes, you are not reading the general election polls, ignore Trump - he can't get to 270
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jan 26, 2016 - 10:00pm PT
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It's OK Moose. I have learned that admitting to being an Idaho resident is always good for a condescending laugh from the audience, when I travel.
Now, when anyone asks where we live, whether we are in a liberal state, or outside the U.S.-------we live in Colorado
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Jan 26, 2016 - 10:57pm PT
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NutAgain,
That is a long but very well written post. Thanks for your thoughts.
Your points on the growing corporate wealth, while middle class private sector jobs dry up to technology is the growing trend. Neither party has the answer for supplying jobs in this time of technological change.
The crony capitalism advantages handed to corporations, however, can be changed. The middle class and small business always pay for the programs of both parties.
I don't think Bernie is electable in the general if he gets the nod, but I do understand the sentiment of his message.
Many experts are predicting another major recession coming. Nearly every state is in financial crises.
The rest of the world is even worse.
China's economy is nosediving.
The European Union is struggling with many issues.
Brazil is the worst it's been since the 1930's, according to "The Economist".
The US will probably weather this potential worldwide recession better than any, but there will be some reckoning coming for many.
It's like the whole world has been living on a credit card for a long time...good times.
Now the bills come due.
Now the chickens come home to roost.
And both parties are rallying behind populist messages.
None of this is good.
Maybe us baby boomers have lived our lives in the sweet spot of history.
Interesting times we live in.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jan 26, 2016 - 11:02pm PT
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Wilbeer, that analogy is brilliant!
Heard parts of this on the radio tonight, and thought it a nice coincidence considering my earlier rants today or yesterday about trying to help rich and businessy folks see their personal motivation to vote for Bernie:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Larry N, I hear you. The whole system of money generation and business funding with investors that demand growth is a big house of cards. You take an investment to grow a business, and the new owners demand that you grow even more so their share increases in value and they get paid off. And then to enable that growth you have to convince the next round of investors that you are still growing so it's worth it to buy, and the chain goes on forever of non-stop growth until the business collapses, and along the way it eventually compromises environmental and social ideals and must infiltrate government policies to keep achieving the growth targets.
Imagine instead a business starts through self-bootstrapping or loans from neighbors/friends/family, and then grows organically at a slow rate based on reinvesting profits and getting modest loans to manage cash flow during growth. When the company grows to a sustainable sweet spot that meets the needs of the customers in the market they are good at, and employ as many people as they can reasonably manage to meet their demand, then they can stay steady at that rate! A long term sustainable model.
But, that flies in the face of everyone's greed and impatience and abbhorrence of hard work. The desire to get something for nothing, to get rich quick, to reap the benefits now of our future work, to have the next cool new gadget right now, this motivates all these schemes to accelerate profits and product delivery cycles which boil down to a Faustian bargain that in the end will hurt us all. But enough people play the game and think as long as they are not the last ones left holding the bag that they win. Or even more perverse, they hedge bet on when someone will get left holding the bag and profit on that! But how can anyone really win when it is in the context of so many people losing so profoundly?
So I think a fundamental shake-up of our financial system and markets and business funding models and requirements for endless growth is definitely a prerequisite to move our society in a more sustainable direction. The main people panicking about that are the ones left holding the bag in the game, people owning pumped up stocks that want the illusion to keep going.
Apathy and hopelessness about fundamentally fixing our societal problems (and perhaps ignorance of how these issues eclipse all the other issues on which we may agree or differ) are the main enemies in this election. If we can't muster the courage to take a stand for what we believe is right in our civilization (and the wisdom to consider the long term impacts of policies that we believe to be right), what are we leaving our children? It is a war for civilization we are facing, and you can hide behind pragmatism and die a slow death being shaved down day after day, or you can take a stand against the dynamics that threaten to end us and risk a big loss. Guaranteed slow destruction or take a stand with a great potential for success because the fundamentals are right even if people's faith in those fundamentals are not widespread, and risk faster destruction.
Or maybe we are on the inevitable track of a dying empire, and these choices we face are just noise in a story that is already written. I'm going to vote for Bernie and do what I can to support policies that keep my conscience clear. And try to use reason where I can to encourage other people to do the same.
I had a high school guidance counselor who often used the phrase "it's better to aim high and miss, than to shoot low and hit." I think that is very apropos for our present circumstances. Aim high with Bernie or shoot low and await the pitchforks or police state?
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jan 26, 2016 - 11:05pm PT
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So August, did your set view of Bernie or Hillary change after watching the town hall last night?
No. I don't see any reason to waste time watching any of the debates. I already know as much as I want about the candidates. If I wanted to know more I would look elsewhere anyway. College debating skills aren't the qualities I'm looking for in the POTUS.
Now if I wanted to know who would be the best fishing buddy or most entertaining candidate to have a beer with, that would be a different story.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jan 26, 2016 - 11:19pm PT
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According to most polls, Sanders has a better chance to beat Trump than Clinton.
My theory on that is the R's have been attacking Clinton for years. A hundred million dollars of attack ads in the general election won't make any additional difference. But the attack ads on Sanders will. He is a one issue socialist. He might beat Trump. No way he beats Rubio. Cruz I don't know. Probably a toss up.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Jan 26, 2016 - 11:55pm PT
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NutAgain,
Just watched the TED video. I have to admit that my perspectives on minimum wage has shifted after listening to the excellent presentation. The speaker made a compelling argument. I have always thought that small business and the middle class were the heart and soul of America.
I am not against corporations or good government. Like all human bureaucracies, I think they can become oppressive given the opportunities.
Somehow we need to empower small business and the middle class. I am not sure what the answers are. The world is changing fast and technology will drive our culture in directions we can't even imagine right now.
But the current system of crony capitalism...corporations buying favors from government...or is it government selling favors to corporations... will lead to pitchforks.
As you say, I hope we are not moving toward an alternative reality where our instant gratification culture brings about a dying empire.
Our generation will be judged by those not yet born.
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Sparky
Trad climber
vagabond movin on
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Jan 27, 2016 - 09:30am PT
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NutAgain,
Thank you for that post. Hanauer's perspective along with yours hit home.
Jeff
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Jan 27, 2016 - 09:36am PT
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What exactly will Sanders do to reduce inequality? Even a massive outpouring of democratic support is unlikely to swing the House to the Democrats and even if it did the Senate will not be filibuster-proof. There is nothing pragmatic about a Sanders presidency
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jan 27, 2016 - 09:46am PT
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Sanders himself clearly acknowledges that just electing him president is not going to fix anything. It must be within the context of a broader uprising to demand changes that Bernie has, through his vision and leadership, caused to be a topic of front and center discussion in our country. Senate and House elections are critical- in the hands of voters. The election of Supreme Court Justices this presidential term will be critical- in the hands of voters through choice of president.
I believe that if everyone was acquainted with the issues and took the time to consider the long term consequences of different paths, the majority of people from all walks of life would support his vision.
The trick is to engage people in conversation, to ask the types of questions that get beyond "us and them" arguments with entrenched positions like sports fans, where voting minds are operating from emotional reactionary rather than rational considered positions, and work through the logical outcomes of different paths our government and society can take.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jan 27, 2016 - 09:56am PT
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I'm not going to hang out here and argue this, but from my perspective Sanders IS the most pragmatic choice. Bar none (running). I've spent much time coming to this conclusion, giving each candidate his or her fair due by going through each of their platforms and looking at the positives and negatives of each as well as I can. Sanders does have a plan. But you actually have to have an open mind to see what people are trying to do and give each their fair shake. To be honest, I like a lot of what Rand Paul says too.
If I was to do a quick sentence summary of Sanders approach, I would call his plan an updated version of what FDR did in many respects.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jan 27, 2016 - 10:02am PT
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I've been saying for a while (not here) that a Sanders Paul ticket would be the best thing we as Americans could do to help the middle class.
Neither seem to try to confuse people through double speak or simply not answering questions.
I trust both of them, though I don't agree with many of Paul's opinions.
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