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pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 26, 2016 - 08:03am PT
Mister E wrote.. then he erased but I got it saved :)
Pyro gives me the yanwzies, both politically and communally as a climber.
to embedded in his microcosm to care, hell he's PROUD he almost toasted Yosemite and went to jail for it. it's like a gang tat to him.
Who on earth is proud of that?what kind of delinquent mind revels?
Pretty much Lulz for anyone outside of the SoCal choss/man-camp bromance.
carry on, small man

I've told MISTER E numbers of times that ur going to have to WAX down below. I've got lots of $$ for you to live off and Climb your radical tiger heart out. Just like how you live off of My EXGIRL you can break up with her and be apart of my LIFE.. but I want you WAXED or it's OFF.

HIDESERt nice try mis- quote PYRO all you want shows ur political views..


Oh right, those big business are going to get sued by single employees.
Simply not going to happen.

So you big bad tuff UNION workers can pull cable with each other in the rain But your too scared to SUE or quit when u have a big bad BOSS..

What does the UNION handbook say?
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Jan 26, 2016 - 09:33am PT
Moose, my brutha from anutha mutha.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 26, 2016 - 11:36am PT
The idea that Sanders wants to, can or will "destroy corporations" is laughably naive.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jan 26, 2016 - 11:39am PT
Until the Bernie Sanders of the world come up with a Freeloader Exception, I ain't voting for them.

Bernie doesn't want to exempt the freeloaders, that's why he's taking on Wall Street. There's an old Wobblie song about it.

This is a poem from George Milburn's book, The Hobo's Hornbook. You can also find it in a lot of old I. W. W. pamphlets and literature. It sums up a great deal of what I feel. It talks about the bum on the rod and the burn on the plush, which is just a simple way of saying that the kind of system we live in now demands that there be a poor people, demands that there be people out of work so that there will always be people willing to work for any wage.

Sure, a lot of railroad bums are parasites, but, like the poem says, they're just fleas who get an occasional bite, and you look at what those parasites at the top are chewing off. I know that there's a lot of talk these days about the welfare Cadillac; middle class people talking about those welfare gobblers down on the bottom who are afraid to do an honest day's work, and they're all driving big Cadillacs. And you hear over and over again, "Nobody ought to get something for nothing. " I've got to agree. You've got to work to eat.

I look at a factory. I see that everybody associated with that factory puts something in and they take something out. The workers put in their sweat and their skill, and they take out wages. The salesmen put in their skill and ability, and they take out commissions. The managers and foremen and people in the offices put in theirs, and take out salaries. But there's one group of people who take out more than they put in, and that more is called profit. I can't think of any other way to define it. That's a bunch of people who are getting something they didn't work for, and it's a whole lot.

If we're really concerned about people getting just what they earn, if we're really concerned about people not getting something that they didn't put in time and sweat for, let's start with the major offenders, and get rid of them. Then we'll gradually work our way down to the petty chiselers. It just makes sense.

The bum on the rod is hunted down
As the enemy of mankind;
The other is driven around to his club
And feted, wined and dined.

And they who curse the bum on the rods
As the essence of all that is bad
Will greet the other with a winning smile
And extend him the hand so glad.

The bum on the rods is a social flea
Who gets an occasional bite;
The bum on the plush is a social leech,
Blood-sucking day and night.

The bum on the rods is a load so light
That his weight we scarcely feel,
But it takes the labor of dozens of men
To furnish the other a meal.

As long as you sanction the bum on the plush,
The other will always be there,
But rid yourself of the bum on the plush
And the other will disappear.

Then make an intelligent, organized kick,
Get rid of the weights that crush;
Don't worry about the bum on the rods,
Get rid of the bum on the plush!
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jan 26, 2016 - 11:46am PT
I will.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jan 26, 2016 - 11:58am PT
I heard on TV this am, at one appearance yesterday, Bernie pulled in a bigger crowd than Hillary pulled at all three of hers total.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 26, 2016 - 12:10pm PT
Good for him. He deserves it. He's run a great race. So has she.
What a difference from the GOP horror show.

By the way, lot's of minority voters in his audiences, right? Just wondering how he'll do after Iowa and NH, like So. Carolina.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jan 26, 2016 - 12:51pm PT
If it was the general election, voting for Bernie over Hillary might make sense. But it isn't. If you think Bernie is as electable in the general election as Hillary is, you are in as much denial as Trump supporters. I think about the only way Trump or Cruz wins the general is if Bernie is the Dem's nominee.
I'm not keen on single-issue nominees either.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Jan 26, 2016 - 01:07pm PT
I read Atlas Shrugged about 15 years ago, and I agree with many of the points in the book. I liked it a lot, and it made me think a lot.

I found it very ironic when Republican/Tea Party folks latched onto pieces of it, aligning with the sense of rugged self-reliance and determination that is an appealing and romantic notion... but then completely ignoring a huge piece of the book that shines a light on the corporate free-loaders and hangers-on and back-room dealers that are sapping our government and society. The book shows two ends of a spectrum that drain our society of potential: the corporate large-scale abusers and the mindless dumb masses expecting a hand-out or expecting someone else to create the innovations and infrastructure that permit them to perform meaningful work.

I grew up poor and we struggled for basic conveniences, but we always had a roof over our head and my mother was too proud to get food stamps or welfare or anything like that. My brother and I both worked as kids in our small family business to help meet our financial needs, from the time we were 5 and 7 yrs old. By 8th grade I was earning minimum wage washing dishes at a restaurant from 3pm-9pm after school, five days per week. Luckily I was smart since I didn't have time for homework. One of my co-workers was the father of 2 girls a year younger than me, and he used to save money by eating the left-over food before washing the dishes. So many people in the world have it soooo much worse. So I understand resentment about giving hard earned money to others who sit on their asses and expect someone else to take care of them. I TOTALLY GET THAT.

But... laissez-faire capitalism, governments "free of onerous regulations" for large corporations doesn't fix that. Yes it might create more jobs in the short term, but it is a march back to serfdom, a step backward in the evolution of our civilization.

We can't pretend we live in isolation and earn our worth and ignore those suffering around us, because it will come back to bite us in the ass. I agree it's not fair to help people who don't take the initiative to help themselves. But what is the cost to each of us personally (forget about altruism for a moment) if we don't?
 the blight of dirty common areas, homelessness. Ever spent any time in a city in India or a third world country? It might be great inside the house of a well-to-do person, but it sucks to leave the house to do anything. Piles of garbage at the end of streets, filth and misery everywhere around you.
 Crime, basic safety, to enjoy our surroundings
 Have to pay more taxes to incarcerate more people, whose crimes mainly stem from lack of opportunities and lack of early education for how to create their own opportunities within the confines of law
 Have to give up more freedoms to support more draconian law enforcement as the ever-shrinking wealthy class become more fearful of the ever-growing desperately poor class
 Growing drug addictions among desperately poor AND among the wealthy who still feel existential angst because they don't have meaningful work or purpose in their lives.
 Cross-border drug/human trafficing wars that add to the baseline crime and create new worlds of hardship spreading beyond our own borders. Just being selfish for a moment, think about the more places we can't go on vacation any more!

These personal inconveniences will continue growing for the moderately wealthy, because the problem is primed to dramatically grow: jobs are going to keep disappearing faster than new ones are created, because computers and robots will automate more and more tasks, and those that can't be automated yet will be shipped overseas to countries we form "free trade agreements" with so our companies can dodge whatever environmental and worker-rights laws we still cling to. All of this reduction in labor expense increases corporate profits for a few, while leaving the masses of people with minimal means to earn income and lots of time to breed bitterness and resentment, to get involved in criminal activities as a means of saying F you to the world or as a pragmatic strategy to find economic sustenance.


It is against this potential future, with the best solutions I can conceive, that I find myself aligned with Bernie. Yes, there will be waste with folks on the bottom end who figure out how to work the system, get a free ride. It goes against my beliefs. But I see that as a necessary step in the "debugging of a system of civilization." You figure out how to deal with that smaller problem after fixing the major threats to our society like the massive wealth transfer from poor/middle to rich, and the increasingly repressive policing/legal system that must react to growing threats of crimes of desperation.


Supporting Bernie does not mean you have to surrender your sense of rugged individualism or self-sufficiency. It is not saying that all your hard work to get where you are in your career is thrown away and treated equally to the slackers who took the easy/funner path in life and later depend on others who made harder choices and sacrifices. It is rather a broadening of your definition of what it means to be self sufficient, protecting yourself from problems in your face today, and looming for your children tomorrow. It is acting like a responsible adult, or a parent, among our society of children, and leading one's self and others toward the right thing even if others are choosing not to do the right thing.

We can all argue about what is the "right" thing. But most of us will probably agree that children should have the basic human right to grow up with access to education, healthcare, and it is a hope this can happen in family environments less plagued with existential stress that sew the seeds for anti-civilization.

So retain your personal property, retain your opportunities for self-advancement and betterment of your family, but limit the rights of corporations that run counter to the intent of preserving rights of people, and hard-code into our society the basic rights of education and healthcare for all, along with various systems that support the realization of those goals. That in my mind is the vote for Bernie.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 26, 2016 - 01:41pm PT
I thought the town hall last night was great. My problem with Bernie's proposals is that, if he were to be elected, they would need to be accompanied by an unprecedented liberal political revolution.

Could that happen? Will all his young supporters drop what they are doing to work full time on grass roots political organizing? Will they run for local, state and federal offices? Will they work tirelessly to elect members of congress that will support Bernie's ideas? Without that, his ideas aren't going anywhere. Wall Street isn't going to just roll over.

Or will they go back to doing what they were doing (like 99.9% of Obama's supporters) and wait to watch the revolution on TV or their iPhones? And then complain that nothing changed.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jan 26, 2016 - 01:51pm PT
My problem with Bernie's proposals is that, if he were to be elected, they would need to be accompanied by an unprecedented liberal political revolution.

The crux right there. With a Republican Congress, Sanders will be what we have now. An angry Democratic President chained to an ideologically opposed Congress. Not bad actually, low gas prices, low interest rates, low unemployment, low military casualties and a high stock market.

But Hillary is done. In October, I wished she would turn over her campaign cash and organization to Joe Biden.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 26, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
John, if you lived near me I'd bet you a nice lunch on your "Hillary is done" opinion. My guess is that this summer she will take the podium as the first female nominee in US history. And I think her victory over Trump/Cruz will be historic in margin.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jan 26, 2016 - 02:07pm PT
Somehow, I find the Pool Room at the Four Seasons more tranquil.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 26, 2016 - 02:13pm PT
I felt kind of sorry for Old Man Sanders in that last debate when Old Lady Clinton kept smacking him upside the head saying "Turn your f*#king hearing aid down goddamnit. It's feeding back on mine."
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jan 26, 2016 - 02:16pm PT
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jan 26, 2016 - 02:31pm PT



Smoke a Beer.

Chill ,MOST of us will be out of this decision.
couchmaster

climber
Jan 26, 2016 - 02:38pm PT


The best thing about Bernie is what makes Donald Trump so attractive as well. Neither has been bought and sold by the corporists. Trump is self funding (although he'll be taking in $cratch no doubt) and Bernie is only getting funds from the multitudes.

Neither will be beholden to the special interests and in that regard, both are better than Hillary and Jeb!.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jan 26, 2016 - 02:55pm PT
When the voting starts, we will find out for sure. But at the moment, I don't think bigger crowds for Bernie vs Hillary means Bernie is ahead. Like most Americans, I already have a very set view of Hillary. If Bernie had a campaign event near my house, I might check it out. Hillary I wouldn't bother.

But regardless of whether I like Bernie's ideas, I don't believe he is electable in the general. So Hillary will get my primary vote over Bernie since I would rather have a Dem. As of last summer, I thought the R's would do the same and therefore I didn't think Trump had any serious chance of getting the R's nomination. I still think most R's would rather go with a second choice candidate if they thought that candidate had a better chance of winning the general. The difference now is that more and more R's actually think Trump could win the general. I think they are really deluded on that, but I'm curious to find out and maybe we will.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jan 26, 2016 - 02:58pm PT
Neither might not be beholden to special interest, but when it comes to passing a budget, that requires congress which is beholden to special interest. I don't see that you gain much and I don't really want to see either one as commander in chief which is the one arena where the president can act without congress. Also, I could see Cruz beating Sanders much more easily than Hillary and Cruz is really scary.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 26, 2016 - 03:03pm PT
You don't have to accept $$ from an industry to be in their back pocket. As an example, Trump would be the gun lobby's best friend. He knows his supporters priorities.

So August, did your set view of Bernie or Hillary change after watching the town hall last night?

It's here: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/01/best-moments-democratic-town-hall-cnn
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