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Gary
Social climber
From A Buick 6
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Apr 16, 2015 - 08:28am PT
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Hell, libertarians rarely get elected.
Good thing, too. Last thing we need is "market forces" determining proper levels of air and water pollution.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 16, 2015 - 08:40am PT
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The Libertarians destroyed Chile and Iraq
They were to be the Great Libertarian experiments that would demonstrate how well it would work if let loose in totality.
And as predicted, the rich and powerful depots take over and the lack of regulation force the population into poverty or worse.
There are very few real Liberations, mostly just fake ones that don't have a clue what they are all about.
if you agree with these then you are true libertarian;
repeal SS
repeal Medicare, Medicaid
privatize all education, roads, all social services
eliminate any regulation that hinders corporate profits
eliminate all pollution laws
give more tax cuts to the rich, raise taxes on the poor and middle class
it's a sickness, you have to be very rich and a sociopath to be a true libertarian.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 16, 2015 - 08:42am PT
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In 1980, David Koch ran as the Libertarian Party’s vice-presidential candidate in 1980.
Let’s take a look at the 1980 Libertarian Party platform.
Here are just a few excerpts of the Libertarian Party platform that David Koch ran on in 1980:
•“We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.”
•“We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.”
•“We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.”
•“We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.”
•“We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.”
•“We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.”
•“We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.”
•“We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.”
•“As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.”
•“We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.”
•“We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.”
•“We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.”
•“We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.”
•“We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.”
•“We support abolition of the Department of Energy.”
•“We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.”
•“We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.”
•“We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.”
•“We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.”
•“We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.”
•“We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.”
•“We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.”
•“We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.”
•“We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.”
•“We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.”
•“We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/koch-brothers
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Apr 16, 2015 - 08:48am PT
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Criminy, are ALL of you retired?
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Lassitude 33
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Apr 16, 2015 - 08:56am PT
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That "Libertarian" platform sounds like "paradise" or maybe "Road Warrior" --depending on how much money you have for your own private compound and militia.
Who cares about rap bolting, I want to know if Hillary supports power drilling.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Apr 16, 2015 - 09:08am PT
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This a good discussion...better hurry before you-know-who shows up and this thread gets very, very cold.
Crankster... care to name names, Kind Sir?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 16, 2015 - 09:10am PT
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hey Guyman, good troll on Pyro
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Apr 16, 2015 - 09:12am PT
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The shallow side of the electorate will vote for Hillary
To simply vote for someone based on their gender, and not on their substance of qualifications as well as their level of integrity, is shameful.
Ah Cragman, the morality cop is here - that self-appointed self-righteous bastion of integrity! Look busy!
Obama is a little girl who soiled his panties.
How are you going to insult Hillary - by calling her black?
Shameful and shallow seems like a good description ... of you :-)
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 16, 2015 - 09:22am PT
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No one's voting for her just because she is a women
That would be shallow.
But that is the lie they will promote, just like the only reason we voted for Obama was because he's black.
What other lies?
that she isn't qualified, Benghazi, email gate, monica, blah blah endless blah.
It's all they have, lies and smear tactics. Create hate for her the second she gets out the gate, and keep up the hate as loud as possible.
If any Republican voter knew the Republican's true agenda they would only get about 1% of the vote.
what does that equate to: that 99% of the Republican voters are just suckers that fall for the BS they spew.
The right wing media are smart, they know how to manipulate weak minds.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 16, 2015 - 09:27am PT
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The political IQ being so I high on this forum, I'm sure Hillary's team is following this thread with the close attention that it warrants.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Apr 16, 2015 - 10:25am PT
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Lifelong liar.
Jerry Zeifman, a lifelong Democrat, supervised the work of 27-year-old Hillary Rodham on the committee. Hillary got a job working on the investigation at the behest of her former law professor, Burke Marshall, who was also Sen. Ted Kennedy’s chief counsel in the Chappaquiddick affair. When the investigation was over, Zeifman fired Hillary from the committee staff and refused to give her a letter of recommendation – one of only three people who earned that dubious distinction in Zeifman’s 17-year career.
Why?
“Because she was a liar,” Zeifman said in an interview last week. “She was an unethical, dishonest lawyer. She conspired to violate the Constitution, the rules of the House, the rules of the committee and the rules of confidentiality
The brief involved precedent for representation by counsel during an impeachment proceeding. When Hillary endeavored to write a legal brief arguing there is no right to representation by counsel during an impeachment proceeding, Zeifman says, he told Hillary about the case of Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas, who faced an impeachment attempt in 1970.
“As soon as the impeachment resolutions were introduced by (then-House Minority Leader Gerald) Ford, and they were referred to the House Judiciary Committee, the first thing Douglas did was hire himself a lawyer,” Zeifman said.
The Judiciary Committee allowed Douglas to keep counsel, thus establishing the precedent. Zeifman says he told Hillary that all the documents establishing this fact were in the Judiciary Committee’s public files. So what did Hillary do?
“Hillary then removed all the Douglas files to the offices where she was located, which at that time was secured and inaccessible to the public,” Zeifman said. Hillary then proceeded to write a legal brief arguing there was no precedent for the right to representation by counsel during an impeachment proceeding – as if the Douglas case had never occurred.
The brief was so fraudulent and ridiculous, Zeifman believes Hillary would have been disbarred if she had submitted it to a judge.
Zeifman says that if Hillary, Marshall, Nussbaum and Doar had succeeded, members of the House Judiciary Committee would have also been denied the right to cross-examine witnesses, and denied the opportunity to even participate in the drafting of articles of impeachment against Nixon.
Of course, Nixon’s resignation rendered the entire issue moot, ending Hillary’s career on the Judiciary Committee staff in a most undistinguished manner. Zeifman says he was urged by top committee members to keep a diary of everything that was happening. He did so, and still has the diary if anyone wants to check the veracity of his story. Certainly, he could not have known in 1974 that diary entries about a young lawyer named Hillary Rodham would be of interest to anyone 34 years later.
But they show that the pattern of lies, deceit, fabrications and unethical behavior was established long ago – long before the Bosnia lie, and indeed, even before cattle futures, Travelgate and Whitewater – for the woman who is still asking us to make her president of the United States.
http://www.westernjournalism.com/hillary-clinton-fired-for-lies-unethical-behavior/
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Apr 16, 2015 - 10:37am PT
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Obama is a little girl who soiled his panties.
Are our politicians really any worse than the best of the best of us? I think that they are us, we just don't like the reflection.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 16, 2015 - 10:49am PT
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I do like Hillary
Swank.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 16, 2015 - 11:01am PT
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The time to learn to speak chinese is now.
You're behind the times. Japan has replaced China as the biggest foregn buyer of U. S. debt, per the Wall Street Journal.
And Norton, I, too, was quite surprised to learn that 50 million people voted for McCain/Palin in 2007.
Seriously, the reason Hillary does not have me "foaming at the mouth" (as allegedly all Republicans do) is because she does have a track record of pragmatism, and an ability to negotiate, not just vilify.
Heck, in Iowa, she even sounded like a conservative when talking about small business. Maybe she decided that businesses create jobs after all. NBC certainly created one for Chelsea.
John
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 16, 2015 - 11:33am PT
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Well I do know some japanese so am still ahead of the game.
I like the way Craig tries to put somebody else's platform from 35 years ago as words in my mouth.
I guess I would qualify as a moderate libertarian. Take the pollution example. We ought to determine carrying capacity, split it up into "shares", and offer it up to potential polluters on a free market basis.
If a manufacturer can't afford the shares it can't pollute.
One of the problems that we have now is that we only buy things based on the cost of materials plus the cost to manufacture, distribute, and middle men in the exchanges, but we do not include the cost of disposal or the cost to the environment.
Often enough things are sold for less than the sum of their production and disposal cost.
Pretty foolish financially, unless you are the polluter who profits.
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Gary
Social climber
From A Buick 6
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Apr 16, 2015 - 11:48am PT
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If a manufacturer can't afford the shares it can't pollute.
How reassuring.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 16, 2015 - 12:19pm PT
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Toker Villain, you and I seem to have quite similar ideas on pollution. I knew I should have stopped in Toquerville when I passed through a couple of years ago.
John
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dirtyone
Big Wall climber
CA
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Apr 16, 2015 - 01:02pm PT
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Even Bill didn't want her......
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 16, 2015 - 01:48pm PT
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^^^ The Clintons.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Apr 16, 2015 - 02:20pm PT
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I'm fairly liberal and fairly Democrat. But I have to say, I'm not sold on Hillary.
For one, I don't like this dynastic thing we've got going.
For two, I don't like the email thing. I doubt there is any real fire there, but it shows really poor judgment on that part of her and her team. It makes it seem like she had something to hide. In the business I'm in, there are lot of fairly strict rules about not sending anything business related on a private email. And having her own team go through and clean up what they deemed to be "private" just opens the door to criticism.
But I'm not sure who is better. Warren doesn't want to run and is probably too liberal to win in the general. Biden is uninspiring. Maybe Jim Webb. Or I'd be tempted to vote for John Huntsman, but he'd never get through the GOP primaries.
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