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raymond phule
climber
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"We've already established that you can't see evidence because you're not looking. So you want me to show you the book? Then you'll demand that I pick it up, find the page, read it out to you then explain it, right?"
Of course, you are the person that want to prove something and you should provide the evidence. It is that way in court and science for example. Isn't this obvious?
"No dice. If you really want to know, you'll go look it up for yourself. Don't ask me to do your learning for you."
This is also a comment that is so obvious faulty in all other cases than religion. A professor write paper about a theory without given any evidence for the theory just saing "If you really want to know, you'll go look it up for yourself. Don't ask me to do your learning for you." I can assure you that the paper is not going to be published.
"But since you won't bother, read this instead - Luke 16 verses 19-31. It's a story jesus told which describes people like you. See if you can understand it.
http://bibledev.azaz.com/bibleresources/passagesearchresults2.php?passage1=Luke+16&book_id=49&version1=31&tp=24&c=16"
Why should I belive anything in the bible as more than storys writting down several years after the actual happening? Why should I see Jesus in a another why than other philosopher like Platon, Kant, Nitche? Why should I belive that the bible is God words more than I belive in the Koran or the scientolog bible? Do you belive that both the Koran and the scientolog bible is true?
Think about why you dont belive these religions and books and you should be able to understand why I dont belive your holy book.
From the link.
"Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much."
I interpret this like I cant trust you with anything at all because you cant even backup your claim that 4 of the 5 worst massmurders where atheists. You might be right but you need to backup your claim to get any crediability.
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Blight
Social climber
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Of course, you are the person that want to prove something and you should provide the evidence.
*sigh*
I'm not the one asking for evidence. You are. Read your own posts, man.
"Why should I belive anything in the bible as more than storys writting down blah blah blah bullshit bullshit bullshit blah blah"
The story says that if you're not going to bother looking at the evidence right in front of you, you're not going to believe anything I give you either.
Yes, there were idiots like you 2000 years ago too, and Jesus knew all about your bullshit and had it covered too.
Either do the research yourself or stop talking rubbish, shut up and go away. Either way works well for me (and for God, by the way).
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Blight
Social climber
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Oh and here's what Hitler had to say about christianity:
Night of 11th-12th July, 1941
"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together....
"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity....
"Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7)
10th October, 1941, midday
"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." (p 43)
14th October, 1941, midday
"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity....
"Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse....
"...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little....
"Christianity the liar....
"We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State." (p 49-52)
19th October, 1941, night
"The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."
21st October, 1941, midday
"Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer....
"The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation....
"Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the
instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea." (p 63-65)
13th December, 1941, midnight
"Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... ....
"When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." (p 118-119)
14th December, 1941, midday
"Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself....
"Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism,
under a tinsel of metaphysics." (p 119 & 120)
9th April, 1942, dinner
"There is something very unhealthy about Christianity." (p 339)
27th February, 1942, midday
"It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie."
"Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)
These are just a small sample.
Hitler knew that religion was a good way to manipulate people, but he wasn't religious himself. Read the quotes and look at his actions, for God's sake!
Oh, and if Hitler was an atheist, that would mean that 5 out of the top 5 were probably atheists. Thanks for bringing it up (although you;re not doing your side any favours).
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raymond phule
climber
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""Of course, you are the person that want to prove something and you should provide the evidence."
*sigh*
I'm not the one asking for evidence. You are. Read your own posts, man."
Blight. You say that good exists. I say that I dont know if God exist but I doubt it. This is similar to a prosecutor saying that person A killed someone. You are the prosecutor and I am the judge. It should be very clear for everyone that it is the prosecutors job to convience the judge that person A is a murder and that he should do it by given evidence. The judge is the person asking for evidence. Is this so difficult to understand?
""Why should I belive anything in the bible as more than storys writting down blah blah blah bullshit bullshit bullshit blah blah"
The story says that if you're not going to bother looking at the evidence right in front of you, you're not going to believe anything I give you either."
I am looking for evidence and you are correct that I am not going to belive you if you dont give me any evidence.
"Yes, there were idiots like you 2000 years ago too, and Jesus knew all about your bullshit and had it covered too."
Nice, some ad hominum. You call me and what is it 5 billion people in the world idiots. Thats a very good argument... or maybe not.
"Either do the research yourself or stop talking rubbish, shut up and go away. Either way works well for me (and for God, by the way)."
I am sure that your work as a prosecutor would end pretty soon.
Judge, do the investigation for yourself and send the prosecuted to death. You are a complete idiot if you cant see that he is quilty without getting any evidence. Your f*#king idiot.
Still waiting for the name of the 5 worst massmurders.
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raymond phule
climber
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"Read the quotes and look at his actions, for God's sake!"
I have read the quotes and looked at the actions from George W Bush. The logical conclusion is that he cant be a christian either according to you. Or is it good christian values to lie, torture, manipulate and start offensive wars?
"Oh, and if Hitler was an atheist, that would mean that 5 out of the top 5 were probably atheists."
Cant you for the third or forth time give the name of the massmurders. Or is it good christian values to not back up claims and answering questions?
"Thanks for bringing it up (although you;re not doing your side any favours)."
Once again I have difficulties seeing this as two sides fighting each other. I see it as crazy people with or without fath do bad things.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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blight,
i checked out that link you provided to Luke 16. i was curious.
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
while i think helping others is great and everything, and perhaps the rich guy could have done so, arent we supposed to help ourselves? should america become more socialist?
and who do we listen to here on earth now? who are our prophets that will save us? if there is really some human on our earth now that can shed some light,well, inquiring minds want to know...
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Blight
Social climber
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I am looking for evidence and you are correct that I am not going to belive you if you dont give me any evidence.
Raymond, this isn't a courtroom. It's a discussion forum. You want evidence? There are loads of places you can get it - if you're actually looking, which you're not, or you would've found plenty already.
I'm not looking for evidence, you are. So go find it if you really want it.
You call me and what is it 5 billion people in the world idiots.
No, just you, the guy who says he's looking for evidence but hasn't even bothered to go to a library or a bookshop, or even just to google for it.
Still waiting for the name of the 5 worst massmurders.
Google it you thick f*#k.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Google it you thick f*#k.
lol, thanks for the help in finding god. a true missionary of the teachings of god.
lol
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Blight
Social climber
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while i think helping others is grat and everything, and perhaps the rich guy could have done so, arent we supposed to help ourselves?
Yes, of course you're right, we should help ourselves when we can. But sometimes we genuinely need help too.
That's what the parable is about.
We need to learn to recognise when people really can't do things on their own, and to help those people. But we also need to learn to not help them when they should be doing it for themselves.
Raymond is perfectly capable of looking for evidence of God himself. But he demands, like the rich man in the story, that I do everything for him. But just as in the parable, in real life we know that the sad fact is that if somebody, like Raymond, will not help himself when he could, then our help will not accomplish anything more than making him more dependent on us.
Utlimately, if he's capable of doing it himself then he should. His shrill claims that I have to support him are just an excuse not to start.
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Blight
Social climber
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lol, thanks for the help in finding god. a true missionary of the teachings of god.
You don't have to find him, he's there all the time. But you have to open your own eyes.
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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hey plight, how do you know "god" is a he?
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Blight
Social climber
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and who do we listen to here on earth now?
There are churches on every corner of every city. All you have to do is walk in and ask.
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Blight...unfortunately you are using a single source called "Hitler's Table Talk"...it has been disputed widely whether this is even an accurate source...
Got any of his speeches that say what you are claiming? I think not. But you know, interestingly, even in "all" your quotes, Hitler never condemns Jeeeeeesus.....
Why don't we just start with what Hitler "wrote"...
I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. [Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp. 46]
What we have to fight for...is the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator. [Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp. 125]
The anti-Semitism of the new movement [Christian Social movement] was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 3]
The fight against syphilis demands a fight against prostitution, against prejudices, old habits, against previous conceptions, general views among them not least the false prudery of certain circles. The first prerequisite for even the moral right to combat these things is the facilitation of earlier marriage for the coming generation. In late marriage alone lies the compulsion to retain an institution which, twist and turn as you like, is and remains a disgrace to humanity, an institution which is damned ill-suited to a being who with his usual modesty likes to regard himself as the 'image' of God. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 10]
This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief. [Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp.152]
And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God. [Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp.174]
Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another... while the enemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve. [Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp.309]
I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so [Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941]
Any violence which does not spring from a spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain. It lacks the stability which can only rest in a fanatical outlook. [Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, p. 171]
I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 1]
I was not in agreement with the sharp anti-Semitic tone, but from time to time I read arguments which gave me some food for thought. At all events, these occasions slowly made me acquainted with the man and the movement, which in those days guided Vienna's destinies: Dr. Karl Lueger and the Christian Social Party. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 2]
...the unprecedented rise of the Christian Social Party... was to assume the deepest significance for me as a classical object of study. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 3]
I've said this to you before and will say it again...just how do you think you can bring a "Nation to War" with the an atheistic statement like, "hey guys, guess what, there is no Gott, you are just a meatbag. When you die you rot, and that's it..."
Pix worth 1000 tho...
...
Let me know if you need a translation of this Nazi soldier belt buckle...Hint: it's kind of along the lines of "God Bless America"...
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Blight
Social climber
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hey plight, how do you know "god" is a he?
He's not, God doesn't have a gender.
It's arbitrary. You can called him her if you like, I'm sure she won't mind.
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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i believe she's a BITCH.
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Blight
Social climber
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Why don't we just start with what Hitler "wrote"...
Like I said, Hitler knew that religion was a good way to motivate people. But he wasn't a christian.
If you can dispute that he said what I quoted, go ahead. Otherwise it stands.
Oh, and nice to see that you've stopped pretending to be looking for evidence of God. Obsessing over this one tiny detail in all that I've said is comcial. Why not just accept that 99% of what you've written so far has been shown to be bullshit instead of deperately trying to salvage this one last point by defending Hitler (of all people)?
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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So it W a CINO or a real one?
Why would anyone care what I think about "God"...I'm ignostic at best.
However, the boomerian notion that AH was "atheist" or at least "paganist" is a misnomer that needs to be put to rest....take for instance, "Mama's Cross"...
Got any other sources than "Table Talk"? Of course if you know history, you'll know that Hitler was just cribbing off of Martin Luther's "The Jews and Their Lies" (1543).
"Heaven will smile on us again."-AH (MK
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raymond phule
climber
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"Raymond, this isn't a courtroom."
Isn't the bible full of methaphors? Do you understand them or is it just methaphors outside the bible that you cant understand?
"It's a discussion forum. You want evidence? There are loads of places you can get it - if you're actually looking, which you're not, or you would've found plenty already."
You told me that there where thousands of evidence but you cant even show me a single one. Why should I belive you? You have no idea whatsover have much I have looked. Just assumptions and prejudice. Is prejudice also a cristian virtue?
"I'm not looking for evidence, you are. So go find it if you really want it."
Taka a look at the courtroom example and you might be able to understand that it is you that should provide evidence.
"No, just you, the guy who says he's looking for evidence but hasn't even bothered to go to a library or a bookshop, or even just to google for it."
You have no idea whatsover what I have done. Just assumptions. Is this really christian values?
"Google it you thick f*#k."
Very good argument. I am starting to be convienced that christianity is a very good religion for me when I see how nice you answer me... or was it the flying spaggeti monster religion that seemed like a nice choice?
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raymond phule
climber
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"Raymond is perfectly capable of looking for evidence of God himself."
And I have done so. Before this thread I thought that I didn't
need a religion but now I realise that the flying spagetti monster is the religion for me. I see God in it.
"But he demands, like the rich man in the story, that I do everything for him."
No, I demand that you should backup your claims. I mean is it difficult to mention a single one of the thousands of evidence for God that you claim? Is it difficult to actually say who is the 5 worst massmurders?
I also think that you should stop talking about stuff that you dont know anyting about. Like saying that an atheist cant have a fullfilling life.
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Blight
Social climber
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I am starting to be convienced that christianity is a very good religion for me when I see how nice you answer me
Good! I don't think you'd do very well as a christian - christianity requires a lot of thinking, questioning and learning. It's really not suited to people like you who want everything hand delivered on a sliver plate in a nice simple format.
You have no idea whatsover what I have done.
Ha! Ha! Ha!
If you'd looked, you would have found evidence. The fact that you pretend not to know where to look and to have found none proves that you didn't bother looking.
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