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Texplorer
Trad climber
Sacramento
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Yeh Melski - like reflectors. . . . mwaahahaha
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son of stan
Boulder climber
San Jose CA
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Walk off. Don't rap.
The Geocache crowd has come up with some nice little stealth reflectors.
And some not so stealthy. Firetacks.com
Would not put any on the rap route but a few to mark the safe turn down the
NDG? One model is nearly invisible in daylight but really lights
up when a flashlight hits them.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Real climbing implies risk and adventure... you just might die, and some do, and in ways they weren't expecting at the time.
I've gone down NDG so many times I couldn't count. I've "found" the "start" in various closely-related locations at all hours of the day and night. Never had to start rapping or "down-scrambling." It's not that hard, and the idea that the descent needs reflectors and other aids really doesn't add up for me.
Why hasn't somebody "tied a yellow ribbon" on a tree limb at eye-level every five feet along the trail to the exact, optimal spot to start the NDG descent? WHY has this not been done after all these decades? Why, why, WHY?
Of course, there is the "if it can save even one life" argument. So, in that event, I'd highly recommend that the NPS start building the NDG escalator right now. No missing the start of that at the top of NDG. Hurry! Time (and life) is wasting.
Seriously, it seems that many in the "new generation" are so "sportified" that they need to project the predictability of the gym experience out in nature. Like, "We have tape-ticks in the gym, so why shouldn't there be reflectors marking the way to the 'safe' descent?"
Bolt or glue markers and/or reflectors onto the wall? Nail reflectors onto the trees? Whaaattt???
This is the same mentality that seriously believes in retro-bolting run-out routes to make them more popular (to the shriveled sack gym climbers that expect a bolt every five feet). As if popularity or repeatability is a key measure of a worthwhile route. Ohh... but it's gotta be SAFE! Whaaaattt???
I'm with the "give up 'climbing' and take up golf" comment posted above! It seems that golf is the actual level of "adventure" some "climbers" can cope with. Of course, even with golf you'd better carry around a portable lightening rod that you can quickly jab into the ground in the event of inclement weather on the 9th hole.
Or, you could just recognize that yer gonna die, and embrace genuine adventure along the way to that inevitability. The "sportified" form of "climbing" is NOT climbing, regardless of how vigorously you go through the motions.
Die on your feet rather than live on your knees. Please leave the plaques, tape, banners, reflectors, and all that other garbage at home (or in the "climbing" gym) where it belongs.
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raymond phule
climber
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On the other hand. What's the problem with a marked trail? A marked trail would probably at many locations make the human impact on the environment less and it would also make it easier to find the way.
I remember areas in Yosemite were people (mostly climbers I guess) had walk all over a large area and it was cairns, supposed to show the way, everywhere. I marked trail would have been better.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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The biggest problem with the north dome trail is that it has an easy fourth class spot and a couple other inobvious 3rd class bypasses of 4th class slab. I don't see a way to make doing that at night for the first time a recommendable situation. Trail makings or not. I do think some trail markings are ok but they are not going to solve everything. Fact is there have been times it was better marked and actually there still are some (useless hard to see) markers on the NDG trail.
Cleaning up the off route raps and fixing the descent line in one place seem about all that should be done with the rappel route.
Fact is the descent options for Royal Arches are not for your average non outdoorsy tourist. Sadly some climbers really are not any different than that. They have no experience wandering around the wilderness, they are scared of it and unprepared to deal with either of the descent options especially in the dark. Easy enough for folks who enjoy going off trail but a steep learning curve for the uninitiated. Well I wouldn't be stoked for either descent in the dark myself.
I see no way to protect folks like that without resorting to a misty trail type of major effort. Even then someone would manage to get in trouble I'm sure.
I guess a few markers for NDG get my vote as do a couple fixes to the rap route.
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enjoimx
Trad climber
Yosemite
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There are no "issues" with the Royal Arches rappells and there are no "problems" with the north dome descent gully.
That's it. I guess this thread can die now.
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2015 - 12:22pm PT
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Climbski2....I replied to a message you sent me and never heard back. I know there are some problems with doing this here so I'm replying back since it looks like we're wrapping it up for now. I guess we'll have to see how the crowds handle themselves out there. http://southernsierraclimber.blogspot.com Thanks for all the input!!
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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How long until technology "fixes" this? Me I like Google maps, but some folks love the "adventure" of finding their own path. I guess we all get old in our ways if we don't fall to our deaths along the way.
What's up with these topos of the descent route? Practice?! We talking about practice man. We not even talking about the game. We talking about practice?
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WBraun
climber
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Bolt or glue markers and/or reflectors onto the wall? Nail reflectors onto the trees? Whaaattt???
Popular winter trails are marked by reflectors now a days.
They really help as you can't see the trail in the snow.
Before the reflectors were put in on the trail from Tamarack Flat to top of El Cap we lost some guys
getting lost on the hike during snow covered terrain blitzing to El Cap for a rescue in inclement weather.
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son of stan
Boulder climber
San Jose CA
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ejoiminxs
partner
dude
hey why is always super beings like yourself cannot fathom the minds of mortal men? Syht on a stick! Late, dark, cold beers 1200ft below in the cooler and a couple of reflectors peeping back at our
valiant hero's from further than they thought after the top of Washington Column would mean everything.
The climb is over anyway. NDG is hiking. Reflectors are a non-intrusive solution until maybe a few hundred years have passed and a trail is worn by climbers in 2525.
Why Nature did not see fit to place a memorable obelisk type
boulder at the turn down place confuses me greatly.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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In the early 60s in Camp Four, Art "dah move" Gran from dah Gunks decided it would be a good idea to place rock ducks to facilitate descent of the NDG.
Simple solution.
Amborn, either threatened to kill him or at the very least knock them down if he was dumb enough to proceed.
And the idea of reflectors? The Brits and French coastal dwellers had a novel way of enhancing their life style by placing false lights to lure ship onto dangerous reefs and booty for all.
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