Climber injured at Mt. St. Helena, California

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tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Apr 1, 2016 - 03:33am PT

Pud. pretty much anyone who does a decent job bolting cleans up the surface of the spot where the bolt is going to go and knocks off ridges that would keep the hanger from setting flat. this should be done precisly with the minimum ammout of force nessicary to get the job done but it is done with a hammer and you do sound like a d#@&%e on this one.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Apr 1, 2016 - 03:40am PT

blowing the 2nd and often the 3rd clip is never good even with a solid belay.

LuckyPink

climber

the last bivy

Jun 17, 2016 - 11:17am PT

I was there last night, March 30th, 2016; I found the rock of quite poor quality. Many broken feet and loose hands on Aperitif and the surrounding climbs. Great location, cool formation and good hardware but the rock quality is not safe.

thanks Sam for pointing this out. There have been more injuries there in the last year since the two major falls in 2015 requiring air lift and overland rescue. Your comment is worth repeating ss we get into summer here.

I question why this formation was included in Thornburg's guidebook, as the rock is definitely not worthy, and dangerous, especially to those not familiar with the relationship between geology and climbing.

There is a bubbled veneer on this formation that is a soft volcanic conglomerate. It is about 3/4" to about 2 1/2" thick over a soft sand conglomerate. The top layer is sloughing. If you pick up a rock and hit the surface it will break apart. The underlayer can be scraped off with a fingernail. It forms dust piles in the corners. The bolted west facing side appears cleaner because it faces wind and rain coming from the coast. It is not stronger.

This formation is popular with new climbers because the routes are easy, chock full of "holds" and it's close to the parking. There are many new leaders here. But the holds break, of course, regularly. There is a local attitude that this is quality rock despite the obvious. It is not.

This information is just that.. information. No personal attacks or judgements. Ya just gotta know what's there.

Killer K

Boulder climber

Sacramento, CA

Jun 17, 2016 - 12:38pm PT

So maybe pound 3/4" x 2' rebar in to the top of the cliff as a more substantial anchor. ;)

caughtinside

Social climber

Oakland, CA

Jun 17, 2016 - 01:11pm PT

It probably got included in the new guidebook because of its immense popularity.

You are correct that it is popular because the routes are easy and it is close to the road. There are few crags that fit that description around here.

Yes it is chossy. So what? Climbing is dangerous and no one is being forced to climb there. I have talked to a number of new climbers who have had fun days out at Scraps. Most of them got the info off the internet. I'm glad the new climbers have a local pile they can go to.

tornado

climber

lawrence kansas

Jun 17, 2016 - 07:04pm PT

Like I said, great little crag but many of the bolts, not just the hangers, are wobbling.

Did you try tightening them? Sometimes the Rawl bolts will spin and not tighten anymore but if you tried then you could post up and let someone know that the bolt needs to be replaced.

Why is it that so many climbers these days carry around so much nice state of the art gear but very few have a crescent wrench? If you are going to an area with a lot of bolted climbs not a bad a idea to throw one in the pack.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Jun 17, 2016 - 07:18pm PT

Man, some of the shite rock y'all have to climb on out there....I guess that stellar granite is just out of easy reach.

Killer K

Boulder climber

Sacramento, CA

Jun 17, 2016 - 08:16pm PT

The granite lies 45 mins away....

But in the winter..

Climberdude

Trad climber

Clovis, CA

Jun 17, 2016 - 09:17pm PT

Climbers whining about poor rock - sounds like a first world problem.

neebee

Social climber

calif/texas

Jun 17, 2016 - 10:45pm PT

hey there say, all... this was very interesting...

thanks for all the comments...

and newer shares, too...

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Jun 18, 2016 - 09:17am PT

Fivethirty,
What's the name of the Glas-like marble, in some small parking lot on a SF city street?
& is the "mud n' bush climbing in Gifford (?) park that may not be the name, but I took a. Bus to a park in SF, and climbed on some thing I would describe as exiting up thru loose rock
un-consolidated mud held in place by scruffy weak rooted bushes.

Roughster

Sport climber

Vacaville, CA

Jun 18, 2016 - 10:11am PT

It's dangerous because holds break?!?! I was unaware that Scraps is the only climbing area where holds break. Nor did I know the growing consensus for climbers as a whole focus on safety = not breaking any holds. That sounds a lot like gym climbing mentality to me. It's funny because historically holds breaking is, has, and will always be part of climbing game in every area outside of a building.

Perhaps more than anything else the injuries are more of a function of concentrating newer / beginning climbers with developing skills on a single crag more so than any real issue with rock quality? You think just maybe? The event this thread is based on is a great example of that. The guy would've been fine had he not pulled his significantly outweighed partner half way up the cliff. How is that the rocks fault?

Scraps is the perfect candidate for glue-ins. No one would deny that. The commentary of the rock quality and ability to hold the bolts is complete hyperbole. I am not saying the rock is BOMBER. It was recognized and communicated AND highlighted in every format that the rock was soft and friable. Now after more than a few years the routes are starting to show need for maintenance. OK. Did anyone not eventually suspect this would need to be done? It would be interesting to know how many hundreds if not more falls those bolts have already held. It would certainly not support the argument presented above about the rock not being able to withstand falls. I personally have fallen on the bolts and have seen countless falls on them with no issue. There simply is no example of a bolt pulling at Scraps. Not to say that eventually one potential won't if maintenance is not performed before they get too bad, but as they were installed, there was no concern.

Newer climbers mean more falls, more hanging, more torque to the hangers and bolts. This results in spinning hangers which if not tightened lead to wobbling bolts because of the repeated torque on a loose seat. This is not bomber granite in a high desert environment with little weather action. This place sees freeze thaw, snow, rain, damp conditions for a good chunk of the year, and significant wind due to its exposed location on the ridge. It sees the most traffic probably of any crag in the entire bay area outside of Pipeworks. It also sees traffic when it is wet which just accelerates the damage need for maintenance. Check Mountain Project after a week long storm and you will see people talking about climbing the day after it rained there. As it says in Jim's book, wait 2-3 days at least to allow the rock to dry.

Does the crag need maintenance? Yes, that is clear. I haven't been to Scraps in years and have no immediate plan to update the hardware. If anyone else in the community is so inclined to update to glue-ins, I am totally fine with that. Hell, I'll even throw in some ducats to help fund them. Climbing isn't the focus of my life right now for various reasons. If Scraps is considered to be a significant resource by the local climbing community, and I think that answer is an abundantly clear yes given the amount of people swarming it every week/weekend, then maybe the community can help in updating the hardware.

If some people don't want to go because they are worried about breaking holds, I am sure the people waiting in line to get on the routes won't mind them not being there.

gonamok

climber

dont make me come over there

Jun 18, 2016 - 02:27pm PT

Its probably best not to encourage any kind of gluing. Its just a slippery slope and can get out of hand. The justification for unethical practices is often "but i know what I'm doing". Maybe so, but that example opens the door for a whole lot of people that dont know what they are doing, and because theres no way of controlling bad practices once they get started its best to not start them.

tornado

climber

lawrence kansas

Jun 18, 2016 - 04:25pm PT

^ What's wrong with glue in bolts? Seems like the way to go for vertical to over vertical routes on soft rock where the bolts see a lot of falls. As long as the person doing the rebolting is knowledgeable about the installation I don't see a problem.

couchmaster

climber

Jun 18, 2016 - 06:14pm PT

"Why is it that so many climbers these days carry around so much nice state of the art gear but very few have a crescent wrench?"

Agreed, but would you recommend a metric or a inch series Crescent Wrench? Also, Aaron noted - some asswipe stole the GDamed hanger! No outrage on this? OK, I'M PISSED ABOUT IT! There. I feel better now.

Carry on.

But don't steal any more hangers off of existing routes for your projects. Just go buy some. Folks putting the stuff in should not be expected to replace the crap asswipes and shitheads STEAL! Thanks for putting in the time and money to do the job Roughster.

tornado

climber

lawrence kansas

Jun 18, 2016 - 06:22pm PT

Agreed, but would you recommend a metric or a inch series Crescent Wrench?

Don't over analize it. What's most likely more important to climbers these days is whether there is a light weight $50 titanium crescent wrench available on the market. I mean c'mon would you want to be seen at the crag with anything less fashionable? Ewww Craftsman. Is that from Sears!?