Climber injured at Mt. St. Helena, California

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Messages 1 - 38 of total 38 in this topic

Floyd Hayes

Trad climber

Hidden Valley Lake, CA

Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 26, 2015 - 05:36pm PT

I learned from a friend that a lead climber fell 20 feet to the ground when a hold broke at Table Scraps Pinnacle, Mt. St. Helena, California, on January 24. Apparently the climber survived. The bolts are closely spaced on all of the pinnacle's routes, so I'm curious to know what happened. Bolt pulled? Poor belay? The only news I could find online (not much) is posted here:

http://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/climber-injured-rescued-upvalley/article_6bf06ef2-7f84-5c8b-af79-143e89b8d7a1.html

And here:

http://www.lakeconews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=40256:regional-helicopters-called-in-to-rescue-rock-climber-on-mount-st-helena&catid=1:latest&Itemid=197

Daphne

Trad climber

Northern California

Jan 26, 2015 - 08:40pm PT

I was there, climbing two routes over. It was a 5.8 that has a little vertical section. He was at the bolt going to make his clip and had a hold break. He outweighed his belayer by a lot, and pulled her up past his fall. He was wearing a helmet, but fell upside down onto the scramble just below. First responders on the scene took over competently and called for ambulance-- helicopter called in, which we heard as we were descending the trail to the parking lot.

He banged his head up, hurt his back and shoulder, and suffered quite an ankle injury but never lost consciousness.

neebee

Social climber

calif/texas

Jan 26, 2015 - 10:00pm PT

hey there say, daphne... whewww... glad to hear he made it through all that...

thanks to-and-for the O.P...
and thanks for your update...

Jerry Dodrill

climber

Sebastopol

Jan 27, 2015 - 12:28am PT

Sad to hear the news and hope the guy will be alright. Good call on wearing the helmet there.

Roughster

Sport climber

Vacaville, CA

Jan 27, 2015 - 07:27am PT

Thanks for the update! This post definitely caught my eye for obvious reasons. I am glad it sounds like the guy will be OK. Heal up!

It is pretty much impossible to fall more than 10 feet at Scraps unless you are skipping bolts, off route, pull your belayer up a significant distance (which sounds like this may have happened) or blow it at a clip with a ton of slack in your hands. Agree with Jebus that rope management looks like it played a part in the fall, particularly the upside down piece.

Based on Daphne's comment, it sounds like it was Soul Sister Thunder and he landed on the ramp at the start.

That's a picture of the route with my daughter in the short vertical section. Beneath that section is the low angled ramp.

Thanks for the heads up Floyd!

i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber

da ow

Jan 27, 2015 - 08:19am PT

can't imagine a hold breaking there. that rock looks solid...

glad the guys ok. best luck on the recovery.

Daphne

Trad climber

Northern California

Jan 27, 2015 - 08:31am PT

That is the route and the place he fell in photo above. Soul Sister Thunder. I didnt see the fall from the beginning, just heard it and saw him land. He fell a long long way, 20 feet. Wont make conclusions on amount of slack in system and belay technique as i did not look at that team other than to see them begin the route. I was just coming off belay myself and talking to my partner.

I have never seen a thinner more petite adult belayer than this one.

Floyd Hayes

Trad climber

Hidden Valley Lake, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2015 - 11:04am PT

That's a sad accident. I hope the climber will fully recover. It would be good to replace the chopped first bolt on Table Scraps if nobody has done so yet.

NikkiNadine

Sport climber

Oakland, CA

Jan 27, 2015 - 01:07pm PT

I also witnessed the fall and I can provide a little clarity on how the climber impacted. I was climbing the route between Daphne and the climber who fell. I looked over when I heard the climber yell (I believe this was when his hold broke loose) and witnessed him impact the ramp. The climber was not upside down at the time of impact, though he was almost horizontal. He landed between the ramp and the rock face, impacting his back and the back of his head on the ramp and his ankle on the rock face.

I did not see the belayer, but my belayer did. My belayer attributed the accident to the weight disparity between the climber and the belayer and said that an appropriate amount of slack was out for clipping.

splitclimber

climber

Sonoma County

Jan 27, 2015 - 04:45pm PT

"appropriate amount of slack" doesn't sound good in any situation if you fall before you clip.

best wishes to the climber

Sam Trimboli

Sport climber

Duncan's Mills

Mar 31, 2016 - 04:21pm PT

[photo id=450929]
I was there last night, March 30th, 2016; I found the rock of quite poor quality. Many broken feet and loose hands on Aperitif and the surrounding climbs. Great location, cool formation and good hardware but the rock quality is not safe. Great spot for teaching rappel and lead technique but due to finding bolt holes like this on the only climb frequently fallen on, the crag's only 5.11, its a little hard to recommend Table Scraps as a good place to learn. Great spot, unfortunate rock.

splitclimber

climber

Sonoma County

Mar 31, 2016 - 04:29pm PT

fixed it for ya Sam. Is that a bolt hole?

Sam Trimboli

Sport climber

Duncan's Mills

Mar 31, 2016 - 04:58pm PT

Yeah, first bolt on the 5.11.

Roughster

Sport climber

Vacaville, CA

Mar 31, 2016 - 05:20pm PT

Come on guys, let's be clear and logical. Your picture supports that someone is a thief, not anything to do with the acceptability for the rock quality for bolts.

That bolt hole was stripped, not broken. Someone clearly loosened the hex head and shaft (Rawls 5-piece) and stole the hanger. The rock around didn't break. You can find the same "hole" at the bottom Table Scraps for the same reason. I placed them in those locations due to the cruxes being located as part of the opening moves and a bad base for falling, as was a correct assessment given this accident. I hammered the rocks flat for the placement. Notice how the white portion is mostly below the hole because that is where the majority of the surface area for the hanger sits in contact with the rock. Someone's ego or just downright being a thief caused them to yank those two bolts.

Now, is the rock friable, absolutely! Will there continue to be broken holds, yup. Have the routes cleaned up significantly since originally bolted, certainly. Is this crag a good candidate for glue-ins, for sure. Scraps receives some of the highest usage on the hill and has the newest routes. I expected some subsequent maintenance would eventually be needed, as is true with all crags.

Let's not chicken little because you personally get a little scared about choss. If it's too much for you, move on to something else. The rock is fine for the hardware and lead falls. I personally have fallen on the bolts and have seen many people fall over and over on Jesus Christ, Monster Quest, and Wine Style.

Don't create a bunch of hyperbole... Please get a little more experience before running around to multiple websites and making multiple posts about this. It just shows your noobness.

pud

climber

Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia

Mar 31, 2016 - 05:47pm PT

I hammered the rocks flat for the placement.

Yeah, we're the noobs.

Roughster

Sport climber

Vacaville, CA

Mar 31, 2016 - 05:53pm PT

Pud: You do have eyes right? You can see from the picture that this type of volcanic rock has basically zero flat spaces. You HAVE to hammer it flat or the bolt hanger would at best be resting on 1-2 fins of rock that for sure would eventually crumble and/or break under torque and result in a spinner / loose bolt.

So I guess based upon you comment, if the shoe fits ...

pud

climber

Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia

Mar 31, 2016 - 06:01pm PT

Fracturing rock before placing a bolt is lame at best.
"hammering rock flat" weakens more than the surface.
Take up another sport, sport.

Sam Trimboli

Sport climber

Duncan's Mills

Mar 31, 2016 - 06:09pm PT

Didn't mean to offend, just to raise awareness. The rock is sub-par, no arguing that, nothing wrong with that, much of St. Helena suffers from loose rock but remains some of the best climbing in the area. Like I said, great little crag but many of the bolts, not just the hangers, are wobbling. This suggests that others in this rock actually might not be so solid. Regardless of wether or not the bolt was removed by hand(I could easily see removing it if it were wobbling to reduce the risk of it pulling on someone) or if it came out under force due to a fall, it is worrisome to see a bolt hole at the base of a fun route and is not very confidence inspiring. I apologize if you feel I approached the subject in an un-cueth manner, I was only trying to educate on the status and relative safety of the climbing and share my opinion of those issues. Thank you for the work you have done, again, I did not mean to offend you.

Killer K

Boulder climber

Sacramento, CA

Mar 31, 2016 - 06:14pm PT

3 1/2" long 1/2" dia bolts in soft rock will wobble but shear strength may not be compromised. However pull-out tensile strength is another ball of wax.

Roughster

Sport climber

Vacaville, CA

Mar 31, 2016 - 07:32pm PT

Actually the apology is mine. I was getting ready to leave work when I saw this. I should've known better than to reply in rush. My snarkiness comes through.

I have seen both this and the Table Scrap bolt holes, they wee clearly jacked for their hanger not rock. I know the crags needs some work, but I have been on a new crag lately so all my attention and efforts have been elsewhere. I'll try to get out to Scraps with some new hardware at some point soon.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Apr 1, 2016 - 03:33am PT

Pud. pretty much anyone who does a decent job bolting cleans up the surface of the spot where the bolt is going to go and knocks off ridges that would keep the hanger from setting flat. this should be done precisly with the minimum ammout of force nessicary to get the job done but it is done with a hammer and you do sound like a d#@&%e on this one.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Apr 1, 2016 - 03:40am PT

blowing the 2nd and often the 3rd clip is never good even with a solid belay.

LuckyPink

climber

the last bivy

Jun 17, 2016 - 11:17am PT

I was there last night, March 30th, 2016; I found the rock of quite poor quality. Many broken feet and loose hands on Aperitif and the surrounding climbs. Great location, cool formation and good hardware but the rock quality is not safe.

thanks Sam for pointing this out. There have been more injuries there in the last year since the two major falls in 2015 requiring air lift and overland rescue. Your comment is worth repeating ss we get into summer here.

I question why this formation was included in Thornburg's guidebook, as the rock is definitely not worthy, and dangerous, especially to those not familiar with the relationship between geology and climbing.

There is a bubbled veneer on this formation that is a soft volcanic conglomerate. It is about 3/4" to about 2 1/2" thick over a soft sand conglomerate. The top layer is sloughing. If you pick up a rock and hit the surface it will break apart. The underlayer can be scraped off with a fingernail. It forms dust piles in the corners. The bolted west facing side appears cleaner because it faces wind and rain coming from the coast. It is not stronger.

This formation is popular with new climbers because the routes are easy, chock full of "holds" and it's close to the parking. There are many new leaders here. But the holds break, of course, regularly. There is a local attitude that this is quality rock despite the obvious. It is not.

This information is just that.. information. No personal attacks or judgements. Ya just gotta know what's there.

Killer K

Boulder climber

Sacramento, CA

Jun 17, 2016 - 12:38pm PT

So maybe pound 3/4" x 2' rebar in to the top of the cliff as a more substantial anchor. ;)

caughtinside

Social climber

Oakland, CA

Jun 17, 2016 - 01:11pm PT

It probably got included in the new guidebook because of its immense popularity.

You are correct that it is popular because the routes are easy and it is close to the road. There are few crags that fit that description around here.

Yes it is chossy. So what? Climbing is dangerous and no one is being forced to climb there. I have talked to a number of new climbers who have had fun days out at Scraps. Most of them got the info off the internet. I'm glad the new climbers have a local pile they can go to.

tornado

climber

lawrence kansas

Jun 17, 2016 - 07:04pm PT

Like I said, great little crag but many of the bolts, not just the hangers, are wobbling.

Did you try tightening them? Sometimes the Rawl bolts will spin and not tighten anymore but if you tried then you could post up and let someone know that the bolt needs to be replaced.

Why is it that so many climbers these days carry around so much nice state of the art gear but very few have a crescent wrench? If you are going to an area with a lot of bolted climbs not a bad a idea to throw one in the pack.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Jun 17, 2016 - 07:18pm PT

Man, some of the shite rock y'all have to climb on out there....I guess that stellar granite is just out of easy reach.

Killer K

Boulder climber

Sacramento, CA

Jun 17, 2016 - 08:16pm PT

The granite lies 45 mins away....

But in the winter..

Climberdude

Trad climber

Clovis, CA

Jun 17, 2016 - 09:17pm PT

Climbers whining about poor rock - sounds like a first world problem.

neebee

Social climber

calif/texas

Jun 17, 2016 - 10:45pm PT

hey there say, all... this was very interesting...

thanks for all the comments...

and newer shares, too...

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Jun 18, 2016 - 09:17am PT

Fivethirty,
What's the name of the Glas-like marble, in some small parking lot on a SF city street?
& is the "mud n' bush climbing in Gifford (?) park that may not be the name, but I took a. Bus to a park in SF, and climbed on some thing I would describe as exiting up thru loose rock
un-consolidated mud held in place by scruffy weak rooted bushes.

Roughster

Sport climber

Vacaville, CA

Jun 18, 2016 - 10:11am PT

It's dangerous because holds break?!?! I was unaware that Scraps is the only climbing area where holds break. Nor did I know the growing consensus for climbers as a whole focus on safety = not breaking any holds. That sounds a lot like gym climbing mentality to me. It's funny because historically holds breaking is, has, and will always be part of climbing game in every area outside of a building.

Perhaps more than anything else the injuries are more of a function of concentrating newer / beginning climbers with developing skills on a single crag more so than any real issue with rock quality? You think just maybe? The event this thread is based on is a great example of that. The guy would've been fine had he not pulled his significantly outweighed partner half way up the cliff. How is that the rocks fault?

Scraps is the perfect candidate for glue-ins. No one would deny that. The commentary of the rock quality and ability to hold the bolts is complete hyperbole. I am not saying the rock is BOMBER. It was recognized and communicated AND highlighted in every format that the rock was soft and friable. Now after more than a few years the routes are starting to show need for maintenance. OK. Did anyone not eventually suspect this would need to be done? It would be interesting to know how many hundreds if not more falls those bolts have already held. It would certainly not support the argument presented above about the rock not being able to withstand falls. I personally have fallen on the bolts and have seen countless falls on them with no issue. There simply is no example of a bolt pulling at Scraps. Not to say that eventually one potential won't if maintenance is not performed before they get too bad, but as they were installed, there was no concern.

Newer climbers mean more falls, more hanging, more torque to the hangers and bolts. This results in spinning hangers which if not tightened lead to wobbling bolts because of the repeated torque on a loose seat. This is not bomber granite in a high desert environment with little weather action. This place sees freeze thaw, snow, rain, damp conditions for a good chunk of the year, and significant wind due to its exposed location on the ridge. It sees the most traffic probably of any crag in the entire bay area outside of Pipeworks. It also sees traffic when it is wet which just accelerates the damage need for maintenance. Check Mountain Project after a week long storm and you will see people talking about climbing the day after it rained there. As it says in Jim's book, wait 2-3 days at least to allow the rock to dry.

Does the crag need maintenance? Yes, that is clear. I haven't been to Scraps in years and have no immediate plan to update the hardware. If anyone else in the community is so inclined to update to glue-ins, I am totally fine with that. Hell, I'll even throw in some ducats to help fund them. Climbing isn't the focus of my life right now for various reasons. If Scraps is considered to be a significant resource by the local climbing community, and I think that answer is an abundantly clear yes given the amount of people swarming it every week/weekend, then maybe the community can help in updating the hardware.

If some people don't want to go because they are worried about breaking holds, I am sure the people waiting in line to get on the routes won't mind them not being there.

gonamok

climber

dont make me come over there

Jun 18, 2016 - 02:27pm PT

Its probably best not to encourage any kind of gluing. Its just a slippery slope and can get out of hand. The justification for unethical practices is often "but i know what I'm doing". Maybe so, but that example opens the door for a whole lot of people that dont know what they are doing, and because theres no way of controlling bad practices once they get started its best to not start them.

tornado

climber

lawrence kansas

Jun 18, 2016 - 04:25pm PT

^ What's wrong with glue in bolts? Seems like the way to go for vertical to over vertical routes on soft rock where the bolts see a lot of falls. As long as the person doing the rebolting is knowledgeable about the installation I don't see a problem.

couchmaster

climber

Jun 18, 2016 - 06:14pm PT

"Why is it that so many climbers these days carry around so much nice state of the art gear but very few have a crescent wrench?"

Agreed, but would you recommend a metric or a inch series Crescent Wrench? Also, Aaron noted - some asswipe stole the GDamed hanger! No outrage on this? OK, I'M PISSED ABOUT IT! There. I feel better now.

Carry on.

But don't steal any more hangers off of existing routes for your projects. Just go buy some. Folks putting the stuff in should not be expected to replace the crap asswipes and shitheads STEAL! Thanks for putting in the time and money to do the job Roughster.

tornado

climber

lawrence kansas

Jun 18, 2016 - 06:22pm PT

Agreed, but would you recommend a metric or a inch series Crescent Wrench?

Don't over analize it. What's most likely more important to climbers these days is whether there is a light weight $50 titanium crescent wrench available on the market. I mean c'mon would you want to be seen at the crag with anything less fashionable? Ewww Craftsman. Is that from Sears!?