Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 08:49am PT
|
I was curious about your thoughts about which group would be less likely to report RSA to a survey and why
I would think that women who feel disenfranchised would feel: "Why bother?" because they feel that nothing is going to happen anyway. A counter argument is since it is an anoymous survey then the same women would report because "finally" someone was asking.
As I said, just food for thought. It would be very difficult to design a study to test such a hypothesis.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 09:28am PT
|
Anyway, the article starts with a real life example of an intoxicated female going into an 18 year old freshman's dorm room, undressing, and climbing into his bed. You can guess what follows, but 9 months later she accuses him of rape and he is ousted from the university without trial. Come on, we can do better than that.
It is important to understand, in this scenario, that an intoxicated person cannot give consent. Neither can an unconscious person, nor an underage person (although not the situation, here).
There doesn't need to be a trial if a well-established rule was broken, and the alleged person agrees to the fact of the breaking. I believe that falls into contracts.
|
|
Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 09:33am PT
|
There is evidence of differences in revealing this by age. For example, older (dare I say senior. :)) women are thought to be less likely to reveal it. The comparison groups I used for this are 18-24 year olds so I doubt age matters (an assumption).
Of course there could be a difference, but I can't make a reasonable argument as to why there would be one with these two groups. And it seems that testing for it is impossible since we'd have to rely on what they say.
Lots of work to be done.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 09:44am PT
|
I was curious about your thoughts about which group would be less likely to report RSA to a survey and why. And your reasons for why you think one group would do so to a degree that would affect rates. I'm quite open to others' ideas - that's why I asked.
I would have thought that a disadvantaged group would have had a lower reporting of a RSA on a survey than actual, for a couple of cultural reasons.
More educated people are far more used to surveys and the concept of confidentiality of surveys, and might have more confidence that their answers will be held confidential.
Because less educated people are more likely (I think) to have had interactions with the police, they would have less trust of any sort of authority figure, such as survey takers.
Less educated people include illiterate people, who cannot really respond, as well as mentally disturbed and challenged people at higher rates than educated groups, all of which might lack the capacity to meaningfully answer a survey.
For a variety of reasons, I think that the less educated would opt not to take the survey at all at a higher rate....too busy trying to survive with no time, not activist minded in the way that colleges promote, less access to a caring, supportive system that allows one to think about what happened, and I'd guess having to live in an environment that stigmatizes the victim as the one "at fault" more than the environment of better educated people--making one much more likely to simply "bury" the issue.
All that having been said, one has to start somewhere, and as you state, there is a sad lack of good data. Highlighting that is very important.
Callie, outstanding work getting this in the Times, which amazes me. It seems that the mainstream media rarely puts such fact-based informative articles in the Op/Ed pages. Good work getting it in, and I'm sure it will raise the profile of these crimes among some.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 09:47am PT
|
Perhaps its possible to create a control group. Ask for survey participants of close female friends.
Give one survey to one friend, give another survey to the other friend.
ask the first your questions about rape.
Ask the other questions about their friend. Has their friend been raped or abused type questions.
Don't tell them beforehand that they are taking different surveys.
I don't' know if that would even work, because I know that friends lie for each other. But if the questions were well thought out, it might be a way to tease some information out.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 09:50am PT
|
I wonder how many people lie on surveys. I lie when I'm annoyed by telephone surveys.
Crimpie.. congrats by the way. You shine girl.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 09:52am PT
|
And it seems that testing for it is impossible since we'd have to rely on what they say.
I'm not familiar with the survey tool that you used in this comparison, but I'd think there would be very considerable differences between a written survey, and how entry into it was accomplished, and
A face-to-face survey, and
a face-to-face with a woman survey taker, and
a face-to-face with a woman survey taker trained in rape counseling or other professionals used to dealing with the scenario.
Hard to do, though. Probably very expensive.
How do you get them in the room? You might be able to track non-participation?
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 09:54am PT
|
I'm curious about citizenship status and reporting, the Dreamer group of females in particular.
I'd think anytime you have a group that is in an inferior position of power, there is going to be a certain amount of exploitation.
|
|
Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 09:59am PT
|
I can offer some insight on these great points based on the National Crime Victimization Survey which is the one I use primary in my work.
Non-response across groups is monitored (but obviously not on every possible characteristic. Weighting the data - which is a must - takes care of that to the degree possible.
Illiteracy can be an issue, as can language issues. At least with the NCVS, the respondent never ever sees the survey. It's a beast - talk about scaring off respondents! The survey is administered by trained field representatives so illiteracy doesn't affect this one.
The survey is administered in many languages so people who speak say Chinese or Spanish get the survey in their preferred language.
Citizenship is a missing variable (sadly) but one that is being added. I do a lot of research focused on Hispanic victimization and their interaction with (i.e., reporting to) the Police. I think it's a key variable and one I'm happy will be included shortly.
The survey is conducted in this way (briefly). It is a household survey. All persons age 12+ in the household are surveyed. We return to the household every six months. Only after the initial survey can the survey be conducted by phone - it is up to the respondent. If they can't be reached by phone, the field rep returns to the home. The survey has really high response rates which is awesome. It hovers around the 90% (differs a little based on whether one is speaking of the household response rate vs. the person response rate).
As far as a control group or asking friends - that would be fun and heinously (and prohibitively) expensive. There is an entire body of research that looks at measuring rape/sexual assault. It's not so easy or straightforward. And if someone has never ever revealed a victimization to anyone, their friend wouldn't know anyway. Those who never reveal exist for sure. There is some research where the research measured someone as having been assaulted, but the respondent says they weren't - and vice versa. It's pretty fascinating and complex stuff.
edit: For those interested in the methodology of the survey, read more here: http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=245.
It's a pretty cool survey and much methodology research came from this survey. It was the first victimization survey and has served as the model for those implemented throughout the world. I doubt any other (or few other) surveys have been scrutinized to the degree it has and that is good news. I love methodological research!
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 10:02am PT
|
Thanks Crimp.. surveys are an area that I know little about. So this is interesting. And yes.. it helps.
|
|
Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 10:05am PT
|
You're welcome John M. I LOVE survey methodology research. It is yet another reason I am so fascinating at cocktail parties. :) Ha!
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 10:07am PT
|
LOL.. totally laughing out loud.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 10:18am PT
|
Crimp, I hear a lot of anecdotal stuff, filtered through the HIPAA lens, and it never ceases to
amaze that so many don't want the police involved and don't understand that that isn't an
option once you present. I've also heard some scary stories about the 16* year old's boyfriend
standing there covered in gang tatoos glaring away.
*or 15, or 14...
|
|
Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 10:33am PT
|
Research shows that reporting to the police is poor when it comes to this sort of violence. Research also shows that it differs based on victim characteristics (and other characteristics like victim/offender relationship). No doubt about that at all.
The CJ system has improved greatly in its handling of RSA, but it's still really really terrible. RSA is the only violence that the victim is heavily scrutinized and their truthfulness is questioned. You don't see that with robbery, or burglary or motor vehicle theft (are you sure you didn't want to share your money and credit cards with that young man sir? Have you had anything to drink sir? If you didn't want to get robbed why are you wearing a nice suit sir?) edit: Not to single out the CJ system - they represent society at large.
RSA has no higher false reporting rates than other types of crime, yet some frequently represent it differently. (Don't confuse unfounding with false reporting - they are very different but often presented as the same). Prosecuting these cases is really difficult (for those very few that make it to trial). As prosecutors say "you must first acquit the victim before you can convict the offender." That's sad isn't it?
Frankly, I often wonder why anyone would report it to the police or do anything that would lead to police involvement. I wouldn't. It is a pretty sad state of affairs still.
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 11:11am PT
|
Thanks for the link, Crimpie. Believe it or not, I really do like reading about survey methodology, particularly the statistical methods used for estimation, because they have relevance to econometrics.
In particular, I often deal with multiple regressions and standard error analysis, using non-experimental data. Most often I use the results of those regressions to estimate parameters of models of uncertain form.
Your study, in particular, struck me as one involving a lot of the same issues I face in microeconomic analysis. For example, one's educational attainment affects one's income, marital status, and numerous other variables, including, for my professional purposes, demand for certain products and services. But each of those explanatory variables also affect each other. Simple, single-stage, least squares regression yields incorrect coefficients and, more importantly, standard errors, for the coefficients. To make matters worse, the effect of the error in computing the standard errors always makes the calculated standard errors less than the true standard error of the model or study.
Freakonomics gives a glimpse of the sorts of crossovers between sociological and economic issues. Your study gives me inspiration for looking at some of these issues from an economic perspective.
John
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 11:13am PT
|
Why hasn't the topic of rape been addressed directly here in an ST thread in the past? (Or did I miss it?)
ST OT threads seem to go everywhere...and there are plenty of ST regulars who are women, or men with wives, daughters & sisters who have this threat present in their lives (or worse)....
It's surprises me that it hasn't received it's own spotlight here at ST. Not to suggest that this thread become the place to do that....better that it serve as a place to acknowledge CG's great work. Still, it's a very worthwhile subject appropriately broach.
|
|
eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2014 - 11:36am PT
|
So, I've just re-read the piece, and I'm wondering, why haven't I been published here? I mean, I look at Callie's sentences... every one of them has a verb, they're not overly-reliant on past participles, good use of pronouns and conjunctives...nice, but nothing special. I do that. So, I'm really happy for you and all, but, frankly, I'm beginning to wonder about all of those rejections I've gotten from the NYT. Maybe they don't like guys with last names that are British prime ministers or something.
But seriously, let's have a Happy Hour in honor of Callie. I propose Saturday, January 3rd at Old Chicago in Superior 6:30 (the usual). If Callie can't make that, please suggest another time.
|
|
Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 11:47am PT
|
I LOVE survey methodology research
You are a sick woman!
Which we already knew since you are a climber!! (:
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 11:57am PT
|
Why hasn't the topic of rape been addressed directly here in an ST thread in the past? (Or did I miss it?)
Yes you missed it.
"How my hairdresser raped my hair and turned it into a Billy Idol masterpiece" ......
|
|
BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
|
|
|
Dec 24, 2014 - 12:32pm PT
|
The one risk factor that remains consistent whether women are advantaged or disadvantaged is age, and women ages 16 to 20 are sexually victimized at the highest rates.
you said 6 out of a thousand are "raped", another words said NO to sex. i wonder how many in that age group are saying Yes? Obviously at that age the sexual hormones are hitting the body like a tidelwave! And by coincidence these kids are leaving the stability and loving companionship of their families home to living in a dorm with complete strangers. i also wonder how many "rapes" occurred by people the victim never met? i'd guess the majority of victims knew the SOB's.
The Atheist voice in America today has swayed the social opinion to condone unwed casual sex. It's certainly common place in music, tv, and internet. Sex on the first date might mean love. But if it doesn't happen by the second or third date it prolly wasnt meant to be.
This age group also has the highest rate of abortions. i'd like to see the stats of who voted for this legalization. don't be surprised if the highest percentage came from men in this age group.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!